Slow Logos 4
Comments
-
I'm also a "reformatter"
I do a full image restore about once every 3 months....
it's painless.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
0 -
This sounds [adjective deleted to remove any hint of offense] to me.
I never reformat, unless I have absolutely have to, and wouldn't consider doing it on a regular basis. I just can't imagine the time lost in doing it would be made up for by any (alleged) speed savings.
But neither do I regularly test new software.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Therein lies the difference.Richard DeRuiter said:But neither do I regularly test new software.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Honestly, that's one of the things that is bugging me about Logos 4--it feels too much like beta software. I guess I look at it as though truly release-worthy software shouldn't require me to format my computer. Like many others, I don't reformat unless I have to (which has been a couple different times in the last year or so), but I also don't test software...unless you count Logos 4. Again, I really, really want to like the new version, but so far, there are just some major deal-breakers for me. I suppose I should have known that the software was not really ready for prime-time when I saw that there were still features missing. I realize this sounds like sour grapes, but this has just been a disappointing experience for me. I love my Logos software and use it for all sorts of things every day, but I just can't deal with a software that can't run properly without so much work.
0 -
Richard DeRuiter said:
I never reformat, unless I have absolutely have to, and wouldn't consider doing it on a regular basis. I just can't imagine the time lost in doing it would be made up for by any (alleged) speed savings.
I did it the day before yesterday.
I hit start.
I chose restore
I made dinner
Before i came to the table, my laptop was as good as the day I started, without any intervention from me.
It's that "new car smell" anytime you want....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
0 -
Robert, what program do you use?
0 -
Damian,
I use Acronis True Image home edition.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/
Unlike "factory restore" which restores all of the programs that they loaded that you hate....this allows you to make sure that all of your favorite software is installed and working great...all service packs installed...
Once you like it...freeze it in time.
bob
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
0 -
thanks bob....
0 -
Ouch! I know you guys love your PCs, but is this really what it takes to have Windows function well over an extended period of time? If OS X and Linux don't require a complete reformat every few months, I wonder why Microsoft can't figure out how to do the same thing?
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Ouch! I know you guys love your PCs, but is this really what it takes to have Windows function well over an extended period of time? If OS X and Linux don't require a complete reformat every few months, I wonder why Microsoft can't figure out how to do the same thing?
[whisper mode\on]I think those guys are all a bit OCD. [whisper mode\off]
Actually, they test a lot of software and like to test on a 'clean' system. I've never reformatted, except to upgrade on OS (which I didn't even have to do last time.)
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Mark Allison said:
If OS X and Linux don't require a complete reformat every few months, I wonder why Microsoft can't figure out how to do the same thing?
Alright, Mark, come back to reality. I work at Toshiba and we all have Windows machines. I don't know a single person in our corporation that reformats monthly or yearly. I haven't had to reformat at work, or at home for over a decade. Be careful taking the words from a couple people on the Internet for gospel truth. Your showing yourself to be more of a reckless fan-boy for Apple, but I could be wrong.
0 -
RobertLombardi said:
Alright, Mark, come back to reality. I work at Toshiba and we all have Windows machines. I don't know a single person in our corporation that reformats monthly or yearly. I haven't had to reformat at work, or at home for over a decade. Be careful taking the words from a couple people on the Internet for gospel truth. Your showing yourself to be more of a reckless fan-boy for Apple, but I could be wrong.
I was just responding to the posts I saw on this forum. I use Windows almost every day, along with a couple of Linux distros and OS X. Most of these run as virtual machines, so I don't have a lot of recent experience running Vista or Windows 7 in a native PC environment. It sounds like some of you that do a lot of beta testing might want to try running Windows in a virtual environment. Your entire installation is only a single file that can easily be backed up or replaced. You can have W7, Vista, XP and ME running on the same machine. (Just kidding about ME :-)
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Ouch! I know you guys love your PCs, but is this really what it takes to have Windows function well over an extended period of time? If OS X and Linux don't require a complete reformat every few months, I wonder why Microsoft can't figure out how to do the same thing?
Not for the average user. And I don't do this on my office pc or my laptop or tablet. I do it on my home pc because I install and test about 15 pieces of software a month. I am a pc writer as well as a pastor and am always looking for cool programs and software to pass along. At any one time I have two or three pieces of beta software on my pc and some of it totally trashes my system. I have gotten this thing down so that it takes me about four hours to get backed up, reformatted and reinstalled (really one step now) and my basic set of Bible apps and office/photoshop and utilities. This run much smoother for about 6 weeks and then it starts to muck up.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Mark Allison said:
Ouch! I know you guys love your PCs, but is this really what it takes to have Windows function well over an extended period of time? If OS X and Linux don't require a complete reformat every few months, I wonder why Microsoft can't figure out how to do the same thing?
I have 5 OS on two machines so I can test XP, Vista and Win 7. One OS on each is primary and not used for initial testing. The others could be backed up as images with some essential software, but I just re-install as needed. Full image backup is performed for the primary OS but I rarely need to re-install with CCleaner to get rid of the rubbish and a good professional defragger on my laptop. A basic cleaner and (OS) defragger is like water and oil to a car!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Let me report on the progress I've made over the past couple of days in getting much better responsiveness from Logos 4.
I started with Vista, 4MB of RAM, and a 5400 RPM HDD on a laptop using a Core2Duo 2.0 GHZ processor. I timed right click menu opening times for two words in the same NT passage in the NASB having first set the tab option to Lemma. After a warmup run to be sure the software was loaded into memory, I timed how long it took for the menu to open completely. The average was between 10.5 and 12 seconds.
I next moved Logos 4 to a second HDD that ran at 7200 RPM. Right click times then ran from 7.5-10 seconds, an improvement of about 25%.
Last, I replaced the 5400 RPM drive with another 7200 RPM drive, and installed Windows 7 Home Edition 64-bit version. Right click times are now in the 2-2.5 second range.
In other words the combination of a faster HDD and migrating to W7 resulted in a four-fold decrease in right-click times. Everything in Logos is now much more responsive, and is finally usable.
I am hopeful that even as my computer gets more cluttered that I will still have respectable responsiveness from now on.
I appreciate the help and suggestions all of you have given me, especially the help and encouragement of Kevin and Dave.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Let me add my voice to those who have observed that having "use internet" turned on causes sluggishness as the program tries to upload every single change the user makes in real time. Users alway have the option to turn this feature off, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. I think a better solution would be to have the program delay these unloads of user data at shut down or every 10 or so minutes.
0 -
Don't spend any money on hardware, it's Logos that's slow. I'm having the same kinds of frustrations you are and I have a top of the line $4500, 6 month old desktop. (i'm not kidding when i say it's top of the line, I've included a description at the bottom)
Like you Logos 4 is running very slow. When i have dozens of linked resources and searches up at once doesn't put a dent on my system resources and still it's slow. Even with just a bible and two commentaries. With Logos 3 i use to link my exegetical guides to about a dozen other resources and it was still faster than Logos 4 with a few linked resources. I really love the direction of Logos 4, and i remain amazed by this new version, but its performance needs to be addressed.
Bottom line... I really doubt it's hardware, don't spend your money. I would love to hear and test out other suggestions though.
*My Desktop: I have two 1.5tb drives (7200rpm) running at Raid 0, 12 gigs of DDR3 1600 ram, 3 GeForce 9600 512mb ddr3 video cards (not great, but much more than necessary for Logos) and a new Intel i7 all on a EVGA x58 Classified board running Win7 Ultimate 64.
0 -
Mark A. Smith said:
I appreciate the help and suggestions all of you have given me, especially the help and encouragement of Kevin and Dave.
Glad I encouraged you.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Hi Dave,
Yeah I'm having the same issue. Here's a question for you:
Do you have "System Protection" turn on for the drive that holds the Logos datafiles?
(On the start menu, right click on "Computer". Select properties. In the left menu click on "System Protection".)
Just a thought. I turned it off in the registry for just Logos and got a bit of an improvement.
This isn't a fix, it just helps until they get the issue fixed.
Steve
0 -
Bob Pritchett,
I'm glad you're aware of the performance trouble and would like to do something about it!
Can I please pass on a few random tidbits:
- The text search speeds say that the data base schema, queries, and indexes are very well turned.
- More hardware solves linear performance problems, but the troubles we are having aren't of that nature
- For example, when I monitor the disk activity the logos process hits the disk 100,000 times for every key stroke looking up words in the Webster dictionary (That's the worst single feature for me).
From here (and I know I'm just a user) it appears there is some run away code that is hitting the disk way too often.
I know you guys are working hard and solving many things. I just hope you get a chance to run the software under a profiler. Over the years, I've been continually surprised at what I learned from empirical evidence. 90% of the time my performance problems were not where my thinking lead me.
Take care and keep up the good work,
Steve
0 -
I've been monitoring this thread for awhile, because I, too, have experienced serious usability issues with version 4. I was hoping to learn some tips and tricks for speeding up the software, but nothing I've tried yet has really made any significant difference.
I suppose I'll have to wait for my next hardware upgrade to really use version 4.
My home PC: Dell Dimension 8300, Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz, 3.0GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200, Windows 7 Home Premium (clean install on a brand new hard disk.)
I think the main problem that I am experiencing has to do with what Bob talked about - the .Net Framework and WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation). I would imagine that Logos 4 is probably one of the most complex, feature-rich, video-processor demanding WPF applications on the market. It is really pushing WPF to its limits (or at least it appears to be).
For the record, I am a .Net Windows and Web software developer, and have been developing professionally since 1994. I programmed has a hobby before that, since 1986 or so. I have been programming mostly on the Microsoft platform since the very beginning. I understand perfectly what Bob was talking about in his earlier post.
WPF is all about the "presentation layer" (what you see on the screen.) The user interface is constantly being updated, for one reason or another, and there are lots of background lookups going on all the time. One tiny example of this is when you move your mouse over a tab. The application looks up the information for the tabbed resource, formats it into a nice-looking pop-up window complete with a graphic of the resource's book cover, renders all of the fonts and graphics, and then displays it to the user (just long enough for it to disappear as soon as your mouse moves off the tab and onto another one, then the process starts all over again.)Now, it is a matter of opinion whether this is a good use of system resources - in my opinion, it is not. I don't need to see the book description and cover every time I hover my mouse over a tab. Maybe some people like that, but to me, its overkill.
I'm glad that Logo is trying to stay on the bleeding edge of software development. I just hope that when I finally get around to upgrading my desktop, the hardware will have caught up with the software. Microsoft has always been accused of bloating their software with millions of lines of code just to maintain backward compatibility. They don't have that excuse with the WPF framework.
0 -
Must be something specific to your pc - software - drivers.
I'm running Logos 4. AFter about a 30 second start up delay, it runs great. Fast, responsive, etc...I'm a big fan of PcPitstops - PcMatic. it corrects registry problems and in general speeds your computer up dramatically. I am an expert pc user, (about 20 years), and I can tell you, Pcpitstops PCmatic will make a big difference in your computer. www. pcpitstop.com Use my name as a reference, maybe they'll give me a discount sometime.
But Logos 4 runs great. My freind bought it as well and he has said the same thing. Be sure, the problem is something with your pc, not with Logos4
0 -
William J Cook said:
As far as fast computers to run L4, the HP Envy should fit the bill. I know we should should not glorify 'envy', but this thing is aptly named and powerful, or sounds to be...
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) - this is a quad core processor (I'm sure many of you know this)
6GB DDR3 System Memory (3 Dimm)
1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4830
500GB 7200 RPM SATA drive
15.6" diagonal Full High Definition LED HP Ultra Brightview Widescreen Display (1920x1080)
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with BluetoothThe caveat is you have to buy an external optical drive- but that what gives it the room for all the other goodies
Do you have any experience with the speed af Logos 4 with such a computer. I'm considering buying a new computer, either a desktop or - preferably - a laptop if it is fast enough?
0 -
No, but I wish I had the experience on such a computer. [:D]
I believe the Envy has its roots in the VooDoo line that seems to have momentarily disappeared from HP (I think they are toying with other high-tech geeky ideas at the moment) - so, it is very optimized for OS and hardware...
But, the big factors that seem to be what Logos says will help the speed are:
- RAM- lots of it (and, anything over 3.5 GB means a 64-bit OS)- DDR 3 is faster than DDR2, etc.
- Video Card with FAST memory and lots of memory
- Multi-core processor - the i5 and i7 are very fast
- Fast hard SATA drive (7200 RPM - most laptops don't come with this speed)
Also, the recent hinting revisions to the default font in 4.0a mean higher res. displays would be needed to see cleanly. 1920x1080 on a 15.6" screen is awesome but only if you have the abiblity to scale (as you do in L4).
0 -
Can you see if Logos is actually using the amount of 4 MB Ram. My computer dealer says, that Logos need to be a 64 bit program to make use of 4 MB of Ram or even more. It is not done with Windows 64 bit.
Ole W. Jakobsen
all the way from DEnmark
0 -
Mark A. Smith said:
Yes, and I could, too. It just has to get faster so it will be 'a little slow.'
I think many of us are trying to be patient and want Logos 4 to succeed. I hope the patience pays off. I do undertsand those who might simply want to throw in the towel, esp. if they have money that they can get back.
I am sure others are having much better results than I am, so again, I don't want to seem like a squeaky wheel.
Hey Mark,
Have you tried the "run as administrator" option? Sometimes this gets overlooked and some are hesitant to use it because others have made it sound kind of scary. But I've used L4 in this mode for a couple of weeks and it is much better. It's still not as fast as other programs on my machine, but it's much improved. It's really worth a shot. The only drawback is having to click the UAC box everytime you start L4. But the speed improvement made it worth it for me.
0 -
DouglasEStephens said:
The only drawback is having to click the UAC box everytime you start L4. But the speed improvement made it worth it for me.
Douglas,
I don't ever get the UAC warning....I turned it down to the lowest level...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
0 -
Robert Pavich said:
I don't ever get the UAC warning....I turned it down to the lowest level...
I just turned mine off. [insert gasp, if necessary]
I find the Windows UAC redundant, given the other security measures I take.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Richard DeRuiter said:Robert Pavich said:
I don't ever get the UAC warning....I turned it down to the lowest level...
I just turned mine off. [insert gasp, if necessary]
I find the Windows UAC redundant, given the other security measures I take.
I think that's the level I turned it down to...all the way to the bottom is effectively off.
I don't use antivirus either.....I'm just careful of what I do on the internet and I wipe my laptop clean several times a year..
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
0 -
Richard DeRuiter said:
I find the Windows UAC redundant, given the other security measures I take.
[Y] +1
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0
