Sync Feature via Email & Password Activation Insecurites

The EULA (software license agreement) says you can put it on as many computers as you use personally, not your kids, and in reality, not even your wife, and definitely not your friends.  So your post actually admits to breaking the EULA for 3, and asks Logos to change the password activation to make it easier for you to break the EULA for 4.  

No you cannot share the program to your kids just because you bought it.  You can't do it for any program you pay for - windows, games, music you buy.

You are being forced to spend money for your children to have their own copy, that is true, that is the way software sales work. 

I think you better rethink your post, your admitting to breaking the law.

Michael Birney said:

 You can't do it for any program you pay for - windows, games, music you buy.

Actually untrue.  Microsoft's EULA is typically per machine and they even advertise Mom, Dad, the kids, etc. all having their own accounts on the one machine and being able to save their individual settings.  There is something about only one person using the software at a time, but I'm not sure how that all works out in the nitty gritty.  Bottom line is that they don't want their software installed on more than one machine unless the proper number of licenses have been purchased for it.

Also, as regards music, if that were true, then I wouldn't be able to let my kids listen to any of the CDs I've purchased over the years.

I'm merely correcting this because I don't want anyone to be misinformed and therefore worrying about being a thief needlessly.

Matt

Damian,

You are right, both times.  I came on too strong, and then lectured you as I responded to your deleted post.  It was stupid of me, I apologize. 

Commandment 7?  Really?  Are 2 of them combined, or moved around or?  I'm really asking, please don't read this any other way.  Exodus 20 is where I found the list below (I'm guessing you know that, I had to look it up).  Again, given my previous post, I want to make sure you understand, I am really asking, not being a jerk. 

1 - ³ “You shall have no other gods before me.

2.  ⁴ “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, ....

3.  ⁷ “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

4.  ⁸ “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 

5.  ¹²“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

6  ¹³ “You shall not murder.

7  ¹⁴ “You shall not commit adultery.

8.  ¹⁵“You shall not steal.

9.  ¹⁶“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10.  ¹⁷“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife,

As I said above, I was too strong I apologize.

The point I was trying to make with windows was you put it on one computer, you can't then send the program to your kids to use on theirs.  When you download a song from ITunes, you can't then send it to your kids to use on their computers (although the newer network sharing allows for limited ability to do this).

Sorry for being harsh in my posts. 

Thank you very much Damian! Years ago I had a very vague encounter with this difference but had nobody to inquire of. I will read upon this. [*]

Dan Pritchett said:

Come on man, pretty pictures!

he was probably thinking that is what his Avatar is for.

I think the original poster brings up a good point though.  I have four children all under the age of 12 who are all being homeschooled.  I had assumed that it would be no problem to let my oldest learn and use the software, just as I am letting him use and learn Mathematica, Britannica, Encarta, Rosetta Stone, OED, Office, etc.  Even my six year old would enjoy being on the computer to use the software.  In fact, the whole family is excited about it.

If I got the tone of Bob Pritchett's post right, and I have not simply morphed it for my own sinful profit, I don't think he would have a problem with my children accessing and using the software.  However, if I am not a thief in doing so, because I need to sign in coupled with the fact that the software installs in the UserData\Local ?! folder, I run the risk of having my child ruin any settings, notes, etc, I have potentially spent many, many hours putting together.

Hmm, I just logged in under one of my children's accounts, and because Logos 4 is installed in the AppData for a given user as opposed to 'Program Files' where every other piece of software has been installed, the program cannot be accessed by my children, so Logos has essentially made this impossible with their installation scheme.  This seems rather draconian.  If I'm still within the Logos EULA as adumbrated by Bob Pritchett, I guess I could create a 'universal' account that all of us would need to use whenever we wanted to access Logos 4, but this is hardly tenable because now, in order to access the software, one would have to leave behind all of their current software that is up and running (where each program is tailored to the user's needs by virtue of the non-shared settings of each user account), in order to access Logos 4.  i.e. I often come across people, places and things with which I am either unfamiliar or want more information on, and I usually have Encarta, Britannica, the Merriam Webster's dictionary, and the OED open so I can due some side research, and I've taught my children to do the same.  It's certainly nice to be able to flip between these various resources.

It appears that even if I weren't violating the spirit of the EULA, Logos 4 has made it impossible for me to let my homeschooled children use the software because of their installation practice.  I can't purchase each of them their own Logos Platinum due to the prohibitive cost (although, to be honest, I figured I'd use it like every other piece of software that my children can currently use with no EULA violation or technical problems whatsoever).  Even though it would be a stretch, I guess I could purchase each of them their own Bible Study Library.  As we share one computer with different login accounts, can I install Logos Platinum, Logos Bible Study Library, and another copy of Logos Bible Study Library together on one machine and have all the settings remain separate and unmolested to avoid the problem the poster was referring to in terms of corruption?  It does look as though for at least some part of the install/uninstall, the installer and/or software proper access the HKLM node of the registry which is shared amongst all users.  If that is so, it looks as though in order to have my children to be able to use Logos 4 with their own settings/preferences, I would need to have a separate computer for each one with each having their own licensed copy of Logos 4.  In one sense, this makes Microsoft's EULA look like a fun time at the park.  I am hoping this was simply an oversight and is all part of the launch pains of Logos 4.

Matt

Matt said:

I had assumed that it would be no problem to let my oldest learn and use the software, just as I am letting him use and learn Mathematica, Britannica, Encarta, Rosetta Stone, OED, Office, etc.  Even my six year old would enjoy being on the computer to use the software.  In fact, the whole family is excited about it.

I think it is great that your children are interested in using logos. EULAs seem to differ quite a bit. Norton seems to sell several licenses at once with some software, our church software is "site-wide" and has no restrictions on how many computers or users there may be. I doubt that many of us would think that showing our children things on Logos and letting them have a go at using it would cause any actual legal action. [:D] But none of us wish to steal either.

So my question is; is Matt correct in his understanding of the restrictions on the use of Logos4 within a family?

Eddie

WARNING: still totally off-topic from the dismaying original post. [:$]

Dan Pritchett said:

Come on Bradley, you've got to use the marketing tools that we give you! Come on man, pretty pictures!

Counting the Ten Commandments -- at BibleStudyMagazine.com

I subscribed to BSM the first year and enjoyed much (but not all) of the articles. I thought I had read each issue front to back. When I did not renew my subscription I was surprised to see the Nov/Dec issue arrive. Now that Bradley has directed me to the very interesting article I missed, I see that I really ought to re-subscribe.  [And Thanks Damian for the links & education.]

Matthew C Jones said:

Would it be a bad idea to maintain a second laptop with Version 3 (which can easily be backed up & restored) available for the kiddos? That would insulate the notes & online backups involved in Version 4 from possible demise.

That is a good way to prevent accidental loss.

[:S]

Matt said:

As an experiment, I just utlized the 'Switch User' functionality within Windows 7 (also exists in Vista) to log on with two other accounts simultaneously with my current logon. 

Matt,  You make some good points about how Logos 4 gets installed differently than other software. I don't think they did that accidentally.

Your experiment with Windows 7 gave me an idea. How about running virtual machines for the children under W7. You can still have just one machine but isolate their installations from synching by blocking that VM from internet access. Is that feasible?

Back in the 90's I programmed for PCs & Macs. I was also hardware certified so I have mountains of stuff sitting around. I forget other people don't allow that level of computer clutter in their lives. (Eleven computers in this immediate room.  Another laptop LCD was broken in the living room this morning. etc.) Unfortunately I am always installing software, re-formatting drives or something.

Larry Schmid said:

No, but the whole DRM thing is slipperier than that.  I can go to a bookstore accompanied by my child, pick out and pay for a Bible and leave.  When I am standing outside the store, I fully expect to be able to hand my child that Bible without the store manager coming out and accusing me of wrongdoing.

Similarly, I also have a largish print library in my house.  My children have access to and the right to use any of those books.   However, the concept of one-book-one license-one user cuts right across that normal practice. 

I don't advocate violating the EULA, and Bob's postings on this seem to allow some freedom of conscience for occasional family use.  Many things such as movies, CDs, books, etc. are legitimately bought for family use.  I believe that in the long term, the push for stricter per-user licensing, even in the family setting is going to create a backlash.

The difference is you bought multiple Bibles but only one Logos license. I re-read the original post and I am disturbed by this statement:

"For example, many people have children and had no problems installing Logos 3 for them. Everything they did on that machine was their own problem so to speak. We simply installed the Key file or sent it to them and they were off to the races. " 

"installed the key or SENT it to them..!!??"

Are these minor children living in a different residence?  This is exactly what Bob was talking about. I have 13 kids. Five of them are adults. It would be stealing for me to claim my Logos license covers my five grown children, their spouses & babies. (We can't "get saved" for our grown children either.)

EDIT: original poster just clarified these are minor children. I recomend a ceasing of further discourse since there is a problem accurately stating our points.

Matthew C Jones said:

The difference is you bought multiple Bibles but only one Logos license. I re-read the original post and I am disturbed by this statement:

"For example, many people have children and had no problems installing Logos 3 for them. Everything they did on that machine was their own problem so to speak. We simply installed the Key file or sent it to them and they were off to the races. " 

"installed the key or SENT it to them..!!??"

Are these minor children are living in a different residence?  This is exactly what Bob was talking about. I have 13 kids. Five of them are adults. It would be stealing for me to claim my Logos license covers my five grown children, their spouses & babies. (We can't "get saved" for our grown children either.)

I fully agree.  That's not what I'm talking about (and I wasn't directly addressing the original subject).

My minor children under my roof can use the books in my print library, even though I bought them.  Print books by their nature generally only allow one user at a time, unless we are reading something together.  Likewise with movies and CDs.  Copying is not considered legitimate sharing; neither is sending someone else your licenses for their use.

If I had adult children living away from home, I would expect them to buy their own copies of CDs, movies, etc.  Now, here is where it gets sticky.  I could legally send one of those grown children a CD that I own, but the trend in DRM is pushing toward non-transferable per-user licenses.  Admittedly, digital media makes theft of materials much easier but that is not a valid reason to undermine personal property rights of the end user.

Larry

Matt said:

My wife wouldn't 'get' a virtual machine, and all sorts of problems would ensue

That reason alone is good enough to abandon this solution. [:)]

Matt said:

However, 'getting around security' issues is not a valid reason to break such a well-established paradigm and it almost makes me wonder if they had a non-Windows archictect in charge of their installer.

I think it is more the newest paradigm of software engineering. The immense control the mothership gains would be scary if they were not Christians. Logos 4 will route out all the dishonest users who install one license on multiple computers. There are logs made of what ISP you log on from, what computer Media Access Code your network card has and these can be compared to find multiple users of one license. It is the wave of the future in software pirating protection.

The ONLY drawbacks I see is the damage other users can cause to the notes & account purchases. I am HOPING no pastor is keeping detailed counseling notes in the cloud. That would be a serious violation of law & confidentiality.

Here is another possible solution: If you have Version 3, install that side by side with Version 4. Allow the children to use Version 3. They will have most of the fine resources and still not be able to mess up too much.

Ariyl said:

I DON'T LIVE BY MAN'S WORDS, I LIVE BY THE WORDS OF YAHWEH That is, man's words, traditions etc don't rule my moral actions. I'm not a brainwashed slave of Rome.

I knew a fellow who swore off driver's licenses, income tax, marriage licenses and ended up helping his brother blow up the Alfred P Murrah building killing a bunch of little children in the process. I lost 8 friends in that bombing because a man threw off God-ordained government.

These babies lived next door to me:      They died here:

I am sorry your minor children don't get to live with you.. If you are not doing evil, you have nothing to fear of those who minister for God by punishing lawbreakers with the sword.

"Save the Children!" 

Kids need saving from video games more than rescue from Bible software. Youtube & facebook & MySpace are much more dangerous than BobP and the Logos family. Public school political indoctrination is more dangerous than praying & hearing the 10 commandments. Cell phones & iPods are threatening kids as we speak.

There is a spiritual war going on for the souls of our children. Few people have blessed my family like the Logos people. I think your hostilities are misplaced.