Sermon File Addon

Can anyone from Logos confirm whether or not the Sermon File Addon for Logos 4 has been killed or if it's under development? Many are really wanting to know. It's been a couple of years now and we have nothing. I would like someone from Logos management to be completely honest about this with us.

Thanks

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Philana Crouch

Bob (CEO of Logos) responded here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/46104/346381.aspx#346381

Chuck Hawkins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381609#Comment_381609

Thanks Philana.

Bob Pritchett

This is just about the last "missing" thing in Logos 4.x. We've really been struggling with it, since we were never happy with the original implementation. (Well, we were when we shipped it, but then after getting feedback and experience we regretted the design choices we made.)

We're in a difficult situation now; we have some users who like it and want to see it continued, but the earlier design is reasonably complex to re-create, and (for various internal reasons) more complicated to do on the Mac. It never was on the Mac before, but many Windows users have gone to the Mac and probably want the feature there -- and we get hit for "parity" issues when things aren't in sync.

We really believe that the new Personal Books model that imports Word documents is a superior system for all user-created books, and much easier than our old database-of-wiki-markup system for sermons and illustrations. But we have heard from some users that they liked some things about that, including the generated indexes and tables of contents.

The "as of today" status is that we're looking at a hybrid solution: not re-creating the old wiki system, but supporting special tags in Word documents that would cause the compiled Personal Book to work just like the one made by the old Sermon File, complete with table of contents and indexes.

Then we'd have an import feature that automatically made one a Word document from existing Sermon File data.

Users could then add new sermons, illustrations, etc. to this Word document, and have much richer control over formatting and presentation, while still having the indexes and database-like fields.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381629#Comment_381629

supporting special tags in Word documents that would cause the compiled Personal Book to work just like the one made by the old Sermon File, complete with table of contents and indexes

This is what I assumed you would do. My only concern is regarding the ability of the sermon file to retain addressing so that one can link into the file.

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381629#Comment_381629

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Bob, At this point I'd be thrilled to have any automated methodology that imported the old sermon file data, and gave me the ability to tag and search the results. The hybrid description you outlined sounds great. A delivery date of "pretty soon" would be even greater Thank you sir, in advance.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381629#Comment_381629

This is just about the last "missing" thing in Logos 4.x. We've really been struggling with it, since we were never happy with the original implementation. (Well, we were when we shipped it, but then after getting feedback and experience we regretted the design choices we made.)

We're in a difficult situation now; we have some users who like it and want to see it continued, but the earlier design is reasonably complex to re-create, and (for various internal reasons) more complicated to do on the Mac. It never was on the Mac before, but many Windows users have gone to the Mac and probably want the feature there -- and we get hit for "parity" issues when things aren't in sync.

We really believe that the new Personal Books model that imports Word documents is a superior system for all user-created books, and much easier than our old database-of-wiki-markup system for sermons and illustrations. But we have heard from some users that they liked some things about that, including the generated indexes and tables of contents.

The "as of today" status is that we're looking at a hybrid solution: not re-creating the old wiki system, but supporting special tags in Word documents that would cause the compiled Personal Book to work just like the one made by the old Sermon File, complete with table of contents and indexes.

Then we'd have an import feature that automatically made one a Word document from existing Sermon File data.

Users could then add new sermons, illustrations, etc. to this Word document, and have much richer control over formatting and presentation, while still having the indexes and database-like fields.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Bob,

I do not want to keep a Word document with all of my sermons.

if we could tag our notes, then we would not need a way to import our sermons. We could just copy and past them into a note file. We would need to be able to create tags like date, location, etc..., and then be able to value to those tags. For an example, here are two screen prints:

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381636#Comment_381636

My only concern is regarding the ability of the sermon file to retain addressing so that one can link into the file.

[Y]

Jesse Blevins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381657#Comment_381657

bump

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381710#Comment_381710

bump

Jesse - What's the bump for? Did you see Bobs post above? This is a new thread!

Jesse Blevins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381717#Comment_381717

Alabama - I was bumping the post back to the top of the board so that other's will be sure to see the post from Bob.

Alabama - Why are you so negative? Every time I post on here you are always posting some negative comment. I am glad that you have a little star next to your name and that you help others but please tone it down a bit.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381758#Comment_381758

My apologies Jesse - I didn't mean anything negative. I just didn't understand the purpose of your bump. Typically a bump is used when a user wants a response. I was pointing out to you that there was indeed a response yesterday.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381762#Comment_381762

Bump

Tension breaker[:D]

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381764#Comment_381764

Touche' [:)]

Jesse Blevins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381768#Comment_381768

No problem Alabama. I don't spend too much time in forums so I am not up on all of the vocabulary.

Grace and Peace!

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381762#Comment_381762

My apologies Jesse - I didn't mean anything negative. I just didn't understand the purpose of your bump. Typically a bump is used when a user wants a response. I was pointing out to you that there was indeed a response yesterday.

I thought that a bump was intended to keep a thread going and as Jesse did, move it to the top for others to notice, thus lengthening its,lifespan, so to speak. So Alabama, without using a bump for that, what do we use? I realize this is all, not a big deal. I am just curious and do not want to cause any contention or violate any forum guidelines.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381657#Comment_381657

I do not want to keep a Word document with all of my sermons.

While I like your approach for some purposes, I also see why some people want to be able to import the text of a sermon as in L3. I think both approaches are useful but don't see either as a substitute for the other. Both would be very nice.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381788#Comment_381788

I thought that a bump was intended to keep a thread going and as Jesse did, move it to the top for others to notice, thus lengthening its,lifespan, so to speak. So Alabama, without using a bump for that, what do we use? I realize this is all, not a big deal. I am just curious and do not want to cause any contention or violate any forum guidelines.

There was nothing wrong with Jesse's "bump." I just didn't understand his purpose. As you state, a bump is to bring attention to a thread. Often a bump is used when a question has been asked and an answer has not been given. A bump is also used, for example, to bring attention to a community pricing thread so that others will take notice. In Jesse's reply to me, he stated that he wanted others to see Bob's reply. There is nothing wrong with that, although his purpose was not at first clear to me (the thread would appear as "new" to anyone who had not read it and was still towards the top of the list). The only reason I replied to Jesse in the first place is because I wrongly took his "bump" to be exasperation over this issue. There are several topics which cause passionate responses - the SFA being one of them.

I guess it may have been better to write something like "Sounds good Bob!" which is less ambiguous and accomplishes the same thing as typing "bump."

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381790#Comment_381790

While I like your approach for some purposes, I also see why some people want to be able to import the text of a sermon as in L3. I think both approaches are useful but don't see either as a substitute for the other. Both would be very nice.

MJ, other than better formatting of the text (I use color, different size fonts, etc... in my sermons), I do not see any other advantages of using PB for sermons.

If we could tag our notes and create a report from them, that would create the indexes.

Because I simply do not see what would be missing, can you help me see how notes would not be a substitute. Thanks

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381876#Comment_381876

, can you help me see how notes would not be a substitute

Some people write out a full text rather than just notes which one could do as one very long note but that can run into performance issues. Then there is the problem of a search on notes not taking you to precise locations. These are the issues that occur to me as I'm up early heading out to a meeting.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381908#Comment_381908

Some people write out a full text rather than just notes which one could do as one very long note but that can run into performance issues. Then there is the problem of a search on notes not taking you to precise locations. These are the issues that occur to me as I'm up early heading out to a meeting.

I completely agree with you that these are some issues with notes, and they would need to be corrected to be able to use as a place to store sermons. What I am saying is that another subsystem to store user data is not needed if they would correct the issues with their current subsystem that stores user data.

The major issue that I see with using PB and inserting tags for each sermon is that user will need to learn how to input milestones into the document. I will predict that most people will not do this, learn how to do this, and will complain to Logos about it.

NOTE: I too write out a manuscript for my sermons.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381916#Comment_381916

The major issue that I see with using PB and inserting tags for each sermon is that user will need to learn how to input milestones into the document.

I see why we differ - I assumed that Logos would supply a form for the sermon that would automatically create the milestones etc. I've been trying to get this to work on Bible study templates which I can almost but not quite succeed at.

Danny Baskin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381942#Comment_381942

Bob, what you're suggesting sounds good to me. Those of us who use the addin in L3 and read the info in L4 have been waiting "patiently."

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381942#Comment_381942

The major issue that I see with using PB and inserting tags for each sermon is that user will need to learn how to input milestones into the document.

I see why we differ - I assumed that Logos would supply a form for the sermon that would automatically create the milestones etc. I've been trying to get this to work on Bible study templates which I can almost but not quite succeed at.

If Logos designs the interface as you describe it, I can go with it.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/382717#Comment_382717

On multiple calls since PBB was implemented I've suggested to reps that as either a short term or potential finished product Logos could add fields to the menu of PBB for sermon and then sub fields for date, location and key scriptures, etc., Not sure if it would match the functionality of the original Sermon File bit it'd be better than nothing.

Jerry Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381908#Comment_381908

Some people write out a full text rather than just notes

I'm in that "full manuscript" group so PBB is just great, albeit with some polish.

David P. Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381629#Comment_381629

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I too would like to chime in and encourage that this be brought to fruition. One has to look no further than a certain competing software to see such a tool already introduced. It is very simplistic, but offers what I am looking for: abilitty to assign subject tags, scripture tags, add other metadata like where and when used, etc. Clippings, Notes and PBB, though wonderful tools, just don't quite replace a Sermon & Illustration Organizer.

Bill Cook

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384304#Comment_384304

Scrivener may be able to serve in this capacity...

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384304#Comment_384304

Clippings, Notes and PBB, though wonderful tools, just don't quite replace a Sermon & Illustration Organizer.

Ditto!

It's time to get this done.

David Salazar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384304#Comment_384304

One has to look no further than a certain competing software to see such a tool already introduced. It is very simplistic, but offers what I am looking for: abilitty to assign subject tags, scripture tags, add other metadata like where and when used, etc. Clippings, Notes and PBB, though wonderful tools, just don't quite replace a Sermon & Illustration Organizer.

completely agree.

SFA cost me $50, and I'd not like to have a crippled product

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381629#Comment_381629

This is just about the last "missing" thing in Logos 4.x.

If L5 is just around the corner, as some seem to think, I sure hope the sermon file addin is part of it and ready to go.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/410880#Comment_410880

This is just about the last "missing" thing in Logos 4.x.

If L5 is just around the corner, as some seem to think, I sure hope the sermon file addin is part of it and ready to go.

Not Logos 5 but Logos 4.6a the newest releasas does have new sermon and illustration type for Personal Books. There is a syntax that is used and it will create an index in the back. So basically the sermon add in is back in. See the release notes http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.6a for an example of how to do it. The items in the table will create indexes (title, topic, scripture, speaker, venue indexes ect. at the end of the book). Since formatting is done in Word, and can use multiple documents, editing, formatting, and updating has more control.

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/410884#Comment_410884

Thanks, Philana. I had missed that.