BIBLE SENSE LEXICON Tool
How would one use the BIBLE SENSE LEXICON Tool in Logos 5? Could you give an example?
Comments
-
My understanding this that it is somewhat related to semantic domain. For example, many of us have heard sermons on the various Greek words for "love." These words may be translated differently as love, affection, fondness, etc. My understanding is that the Bible Sense Lexicon helps search all these related words even though they are different Greek words and translated with different English glosses, but are all kind of related to each other.
Perhaps another example would be that there are some words that have multiple meanings depending upon context (remember the Coptic fragment that made the news a month ago about Jesus' "wife" when there are ancient words that can mean wife or woman depending upon context) and there are other words that also overlap. In English we have woman, female, wife, feminine, person, etc. There are multiple Greek words for the same concepts and they are not always one for one correlation to English glosses. I understand that BSL would search the idea of "a female person" regardless of the specific Greek source or English translation.
I would welcome correction from those who are actually using the resource.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
Thanks, David.
I know I tried tying in the word "worry" but only could get one Hebrew word for it [though we know there are Greek words such as μεριμνάω which express that idea]. Maybe this tool is just not complete yet. However, it looks like it would be very helpful for Hebrew and Greek synonyms.
0 -
Maybe you saw this, but here is a fuller explanation from Logos on it
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
Thanks, Dan.
This explanation suggests that I can access the BIBLE SENSE LEXICON from the RIGHT MOUSE menu - but I don't seem to find it there.
0 -
Bill Fiess said:
Thanks, Dan.
This explanation suggests that I can access the BIBLE SENSE LEXICON from the RIGHT MOUSE menu - but I don't seem to find it there.
yeah, i haven't either, but I am still playing with it. my assumption was that you could right click on a word--i even tried using the ones tied to a reverse interlinear. In the meantime, if you don't know this, you can access it via "TOOLS" at the top left of Logos (Documents/guides/tools). no videos out on it yet, either.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
In the Bible Word Study, there is now a tool called "Senses" that breaks down the different uses of the word according to the meaning, with the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic terms used to specify that specific meaning of a word.
It seems, however, that the classification of words is far from finished. For example, a BWS on נֶגַע results in 77 hits. Only 9 of those are classified in the "Senses". Once the classification is finished it should be quite useful. More common words seem to have already been classified.
This is from the BWS of דבר. It has lots of senses... here you can see the first few.
From what I can see, this tool is mainly useful from within the BWS.
0 -
The Bible Sense Lexicon covers nouns. Our team plans to add coverage for verbs, and then hopefully all the words.
Updates (with more words, and improvements to the existing ones) will be coming out on a regular basis. These will arrive as resource updates, and don't require new versions of the application.
0 -
Fr Devin Roza said:
From what I can see, this tool is mainly useful from within the BWS
if you have some time, i'd be interested in hearing more how it was useful to you--not that you have to teach or lead a discussion ([:O] not on the forums! [:)]) but how it is impacting your learning, study, or opening new vistas for you.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
Sean Boisen gives some explanation along with some idea of when he hopes other aspects of BSL will be available here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58208/414270.aspx#414270
My best one sentence summary is - once the sense concordance feature is available, the BSL will be a lexicon (definitions rather than glosses since glosses can be ambiguous), a thesaurus (original language words arranged by meaning into sets of synonyms), a hierarchy (to be explored where each sense inherits the meanings of the senses above it in the hierarchy), and a concordance (arranged by meaning instead of glosses - since glosses, again, can be ambiguous) all rolled up into one.
It's a con-lexi-hierarch-esauraus [:D].
0 -
Bill Fiess said:
This explanation suggests that I can access the BIBLE SENSE LEXICON from the RIGHT MOUSE menu - but I don't seem to find it there.
It's not currently shown on the menu when you right-click; this will be added in an update to Logos 5 soon.
0 -
Bill Fiess said:
Thanks, Dan.
This explanation suggests that I can access the BIBLE SENSE LEXICON from the RIGHT MOUSE menu - but I don't seem to find it there.
Adding to Bradley's comment: until it's added to the right-click (context) menu, you can access BSL from a reverse interlinear text by
- Turning on the ribbon (it's not yet in the interlinear view: that will be fixed in a future release)
- Right-clicking on the left side and selecting Sense (you only have to do this once for a give text: it will remember for next time)
- Right-clicking a sense (in this example "inclination (attitude)" will take you to the BSL
0 -
thanks, you three amigos.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
Adding to Bradley's comment: until it's added to the right-click (context) menu, you can access BSL from a reverse interlinear text
Nice. I think you mentioned this before but I didn't quite catch it then. This will work nicely until it comes into the context menu.
0 -
Could someone explain why it isn't available in the silver package but it is in the Gold. The tool looks great but if I upgrade then it will cost me $200 for this tool (That is all i would want). I am assuming it cannot be added as an individual item?
Thanks
Mark
0 -
I concur with Mark, why is this not included in Silver?
0 -
Mark Stevens said:
Could someone explain why it isn't available in the silver package but it is in the Gold. The tool looks great but if I upgrade then it will cost me $200 for this tool (That is all i would want). I am assuming it cannot be added as an individual item?
Fundamentally, it's a marketing decision. We've invested a huge amount of effort in building this new dataset (more details in this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58270/415124.aspx#415124). Given our long-term strategy to stay in business so we can continue to serve our customers, we need to recoup these costs (and we're nowhere near done yet).
You don't have to upgrade to (the new) Gold: based on Bob's comments at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx , i expect this dataset to be part of the Minimal Crossgrade.
0 -
If this is the case then I might as well drop my Diamond upgrade and go for the minimal crossgrade since you guys are promoting it like crazy.... How unfair to those who paid for this upgrade and the resources. I thought we paid for the upgrade/features as well? Is that not the case anymore?Sean Boisen said:Mark Stevens said:Could someone explain why it isn't available in the silver package but it is in the Gold. The tool looks great but if I upgrade then it will cost me $200 for this tool (That is all i would want). I am assuming it cannot be added as an individual item?
Fundamentally, it's a marketing decision. We've invested a huge amount of effort in building this new dataset (more details in this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58270/415124.aspx#415124). Given our long-term strategy to stay in business so we can continue to serve our customers, we need to recoup these costs (and we're nowhere near done yet).
You don't have to upgrade to (the new) Gold: based on Bob's comments at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx , i expect this dataset to be part of the Minimal Crossgrade.
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
You don't have to upgrade to (the new) Gold: based on Bob's comments at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx , i expect this dataset to be part of the Minimal Crossgrade.
That's good to hear since I doubt that I will be upgrading since I already have many of the resources listed in the supercalifragelisticexpialidosius package.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Janice said:
If this is the case then I might as well drop my Diamond upgrade and go for the minimal crossgrade since you guys are promoting it like crazy.... How unfair to those who paid for this upgrade and the resources.
Logos is always willing to give a refund within 30 days if you are willing to wait for the minimal crossgrade to become available. How is that "unfair"?
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
This would cause a unique scenario though, probably would cause Logos to make less money and also not in the best interest of some customers. I'll use myself for example. I currently have Logos 4 Platinum, and want to buy Logos 5 but have been hesitant as of now, though I know I will eventually, just trying to figure out what is best for me. I could afford to upgrade to the Logos 5 Silver, but then I would miss out on the feature Bible Sense Lexicon. But then if I wait till the Minimal Crossgrade is released, Logos makes LESS money, and I potentially GAIN that one feature. Maybe it can be marketed better where it benefits both Logos and their customers?Sean Boisen said:You don't have to upgrade to (the new) Gold: based on Bob's comments at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx , i expect this dataset to be part of the Minimal Crossgrade.
As I'm willing to pay more money to get the Silver (instead of the minimum crossgrade), but I don't want to miss out on that one feature, when I can spend less and get it (if it's included in the minimal crossgrade).Jason Saling
0 -
But then if I wait till the Minimal Crossgrade is released, Logos makes LESS money, and I potentially GAIN that one feature
This reality proves that Logos is NOT the greedy monster that some have accused. Bob realizes this loss of profit and that is why it will only become available after the demand on servers go down. e.g. those who are willing to pay a little more are in effect getting in the front of the line to access Logos servers and get the L5 engine.
With dynamic pricing, I would suggest that if you wait for the minimal cross grade THEN purchase the L5 Silver you will not pay as much for the L5 Silver because you will already have paid for many of the datasets before you purchase the new resources that are in L5 Silver.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
David Thomas said:
With dynamic pricing, I would suggest that if you wait for the minimal cross grade THEN purchase the L5 Silver you will not pay as much for the L5 Silver because you will already have paid for many of the datasets before you purchase the new resources that are in L5 Silver.
If that's the case, then I'll return my diamond package. Too bad they'll lose a big chunk from me but it only makes sense to do so. I just placed a huge bundle order too.
0 -
Janice said:
Too bad they'll lose a big chunk from me but it only makes sense to do so
if the diamond contains resources that you won't use, I agree it makes sense. However, if you can afford the price of the upgrade to Diamond you may want to use the extra funds to support Logos by purchasing resources that would be useful to you that are not included in base packages. (e.g. commentaries like EBC or NIVAC or something that is relevant to your theological preferences).
We can all help Logos stay in business to continue developing affordable resources like the minimal crossgrade if we buy resources that we truly would use.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
Is the Bible Sense Lexicon Tool attempting to overcome James Barr's word-concept idea, especially as he saw it in the early versions of the TDNT and in word studies in general?
0 -
George Somsel said:
That's good to hear since I doubt that I will be upgrading since I already have many of the resources listed in the supercalifragelisticexpialidosius package.
Not the new Hebrew Reverse Interlinear.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Mark Smith said:George Somsel said:
That's good to hear since I doubt that I will be upgrading since I already have many of the resources listed in the supercalifragelisticexpialidosius package.
Not the new Hebrew Reverse Interlinear.
What is different/better about it?
0 -
Mark Smith said:
Not the new Hebrew Reverse Interlinear.
Only a frequent forum user will see the humor in that statement. [:D] one doesn't have to follow the forums long before determining that George LOATHES interlinears.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
Jeremy said:
Is the Bible Sense Lexicon Tool attempting to overcome James Barr's word-concept idea,
I don't know. But it is a multilingual application of a standard data set of Natural Language Processing - do a search on Word Net especially noting the materials out of Princeton and Colorado.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Jeremy said:
Is the Bible Sense Lexicon Tool attempting to overcome James Barr's word-concept idea,
I don't know. But it is a multilingual application of a standard data set of Natural Language Processing - do a search on Word Net especially noting the materials out of Princeton and Colorado.
That might as well be Russian to be. And I don't know Russian [:)].
0 -
David Thomas said:
Only a frequent forum user will see the humor in that statement.
one doesn't have to follow the forums long before determining that George LOATHES interlinears.But it's no fun if George doesn't see it.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
David Thomas said:Mark Smith said:
Not the new Hebrew Reverse Interlinear.
Only a frequent forum user will see the humor in that statement.
one doesn't have to follow the forums long before determining that George LOATHES interlinears.I actually knew that, but forgot it momentarily. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF AN INTERLINEAR IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! IT ISN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU. LEARN GREEK AND HEBREW YOU IMBECILES!
0 -
Jeremy said:
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF AN INTERLINEAR IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! IT ISN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU. LEARN GREEK AND HEBREW YOU IMBECILES!
Woah! Good imitation of George. You may have a future in stand up comedy.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Mark Smith said:George Somsel said:
That's good to hear since I doubt that I will be upgrading since I already have many of the resources listed in the supercalifragelisticexpialidosius package.
Not the new Hebrew Reverse Interlinear.
Perhaps I do, but, if so, it's hidden.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Sean Boisen said:
You don't have to upgrade to (the new) Gold: based on Bob's comments at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx , i expect this dataset to be part of the Minimal Crossgrade.
This would cause a unique scenario though, probably would cause Logos to make less money and also not in the best interest of some customers. I'll use myself for example. I currently have Logos 4 Platinum, and want to buy Logos 5 but have been hesitant as of now, though I know I will eventually, just trying to figure out what is best for me. I could afford to upgrade to the Logos 5 Silver, but then I would miss out on the feature Bible Sense Lexicon. But then if I wait till the Minimal Crossgrade is released, Logos makes LESS money, and I potentially GAIN that one feature. Maybe it can be marketed better where it benefits both Logos and their customers?
As I'm willing to pay more money to get the Silver (instead of the minimum crossgrade), but I don't want to miss out on that one feature, when I can spend less and get it (if it's included in the minimal crossgrade).The key point is this: Logos 5 Silver provides both a bundle of new resources (dozens for me, compared to Logos 4 Gold) and new datasets. If you just want the datasets and not the resources, Logos plans to offer a Minimal Crossgrade. But Logos 5 Silver is still a great deal: we're trying to make it possible for our users to get the best upgrade they can. Only you can decide what's best for you.
0 -
Yes but the Silver doesn't have BOTH, if counting the ONE feature of Bible Sense Lexicon. I'd like to get more resources plus that resource. So I do have three choices. 1. Get more resources, but NOT that one feature. 2. Potentially get that one feature, but not many resources (if any) with Minimal Crossgrade. 3. Get higher package than Silver (which unlikely to right now, but maybe in the future)
Jason Saling
0 -
Mark Smith said:Jeremy said:
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF AN INTERLINEAR IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! IT ISN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU. LEARN GREEK AND HEBREW YOU IMBECILES!
Woah! Good imitation of George. You may have a future in stand up comedy.
Not really. I never called anyone an imbecile.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
So I do have three choices. 1. Get more resources, but NOT that one feature. 2. Potentially get that one feature, but not many resources (if any) with Minimal Crossgrade. 3. Get higher package than Silver (which unlikely to right now, but maybe in the future)
4. Get Silver plus the Minimal Crossgrade, which Bob has said will have a customized price. Given that you'll probably have everything else in it through Silver, I would imagine that customized price should be fairly low.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
George Somsel said:
I never called anyone an imbecile.
True. At least you've never called me one. (Though none of us know what you are thinking.) [;)]
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
George Somsel said:Mark Smith said:Jeremy said:
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF AN INTERLINEAR IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! IT ISN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU. LEARN GREEK AND HEBREW YOU IMBECILES!
Woah! Good imitation of George. You may have a future in stand up comedy.
Not really. I never called anyone an imbecile.
But George, to say you never called anyone an imbecile is a perfect example of the word-concept fallacy [:)]
0 -
David Thomas said:
However, if you can afford the price of the upgrade to Diamond you may want to use the extra funds to support Logos by purchasing resources that would be useful to you that are not included in base packages. (e.g. commentaries like EBC or NIVAC or something that is relevant to your theological preferences).
We can all help Logos stay in business to continue developing affordable resources like the minimal crossgrade if we buy resources that we truly would use.
Now that makes sense to me.
0 -
Jeremy said:
But George, to say you never called anyone an imbecile is a perfect example of the word-concept fallacy
Huh?!! [^o)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:Jeremy said:
But George, to say you never called anyone an imbecile is a perfect example of the word-concept fallacy
Huh?!!
The imbecile concept was there even if the word wasn't.
0 -
Jeremy said:
That might as well be Russian to be. And I don't know Russian
.translation: Google "Word Net" [:$]
Jeremy said:... James Barr's word-concept idea,
Okay, I checked out James Barr ... none of my linguistics was pre-Saussure or pre-Chomsky so I wasn't aware of the word-concept fallacy. But yes, Word Net does intend to avoid that fallacy. Reading Wikipedia on Barr did answer some of my puzzlement over Biblical word-studies and some of the related materials.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Mark Smith said:George Somsel said:
I never called anyone an imbecile.
True. At least you've never called me one. (Though none of us know what you are thinking.)
Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.
Well, honestly, those hours in Hebrew class did feel like wilderness wandering. I just don't think my prof knew where the Promised Land was!
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Dan DeVilder said:
if you have some time, i'd be interested in hearing more how it was useful to you--not that you have to teach or lead a discussion (
not on the forums! ) but how it is impacting your learning, study, or opening new vistas for you. Here is an example of how this is could be useful (mainly when it is complete). Let's suppose I come across the word "master" or επιστατης, and want to go a little deeper. I open up a BWS on the word. To really use this tool, I found it helpful to open up a Bible Sense Lexicon next to the BWS. Here is how it looks:
At this point I have the same information on both sides. Just wait a second on that one. But I can see that this Greek word is used with the meaning of "master = superior" 7 times in the Gospel of Luke, and that's it within the New Testament.
Now, let's say I want to understand better other words that have to do with "master", and how they differ from επιστατης. In the Sense Lexicon I click on "master". Here is what we get now:
So, now we can see that while "master" in general is κυριος, master specifically meaning one who supervises a group is επιστατης. Nice. We also see that there are words in Hebrew which correspond to κυριος, but that there are no words classified to correspond to επιστατης. Whether that is because the database is not complete or not I am not sure, but either way, once the database is complete this information will be extremely useful.
Then I can look at the sub meanings below Master and go deeper. The first three clearly have to do with "master". The fourth, mistress, describes "a woman master who has a degree of authority over something." The fifth is, I imagine, simply a mistake. "singer" is defined by the Sense Lexicon as "one who sings", and does not seem to me to be a "person of authority -- master".
But I think the idea is a good one - by comparing different related word meaning, one can quickly get a grasp of the different nuances in the underlying Greek and Hebrew text and what other word choices the author had available.
So, there's one example for you, anyway. I'm sure as the tool becomes better developed and the databases more complete many more will become evident.
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
The Bible Sense Lexicon covers nouns. Our team plans to add coverage for verbs, and then hopefully all the words.
Updates (with more words, and improvements to the existing ones) will be coming out on a regular basis. These will arrive as resource updates, and don't require new versions of the application.
From what I gather, only senses of nouns in the New Testament have been actually classified up to now. Is that correct?
Even a word study, for example, on a Hebrew noun brings up senses of the corresponding Greek term in the New Testament, but not in the Old Testament. The Hebrew vocabulary seems to be very complete, and with appropriate definitions and corresponding words, but without actually tagging words from the Old Testament.
0 -
Mark Smith said:George Somsel said:
Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.
Well, honestly, those hours in Hebrew class did feel like wilderness wandering. I just don't think my prof knew where the Promised Land was!
I WANT THE LIKE BUTTON!!!!! No, wait, the DOUBLE LIKE button!
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
Fr Devin Roza said:Dan DeVilder said:
if you have some time, i'd be interested in hearing more how it was useful to you--not that you have to teach or lead a discussion (
not on the forums! ) but how it is impacting your learning, study, or opening new vistas for you. Here is an example of how this is could be useful (mainly when it is complete).
Thanks for taking the time, Fr Devin. I haven't played around with it much yet. It sounds similar to Louw/Nida, but more manipulative and user friendly.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
Ah, but George! It wasn't God's intention for ISrael to wander in the desert for 40 years. He wanted them to be able to go straight to the Promised Land. They ended up wandering in the wilderness for 40 years because they were rebellious and wouldn't trust in Him.
Ergo...
If "taking a short cut to the Promised Land" = using an interlinear....
and if "wandering in the wilderness" = learning the original languages and NOT using an interlinear....
and...
if "taking the short cut to the Promised Land" = God's original intention for His people and a sign of their faithful submission to Him....
and "wandering in the wilderness for 40 years" = an indication of rebelliousness and a refusal to trust Him....
THEN...
Using an interlinear is an indication of God's original plan for us, and a sign of faithfulness,
While learning Greek and Hebrew and NOT using an interlinear is an indication of rebelliousness and a refusal to trust him.
[:D] [;)] [:P]
0
