How Long Untill a Crossgrade?
I keep seeing scuttlebutt about an upcoming 'crossgrade' where we can get L5 without all the additional resources for a much better price. But all this has come from users...I've not seen anyone with a Logos star under their picture say this.
So, is there any official confirmation (or denial) of a crossgrade in the future?
If so, when?
I have spend almost six thousand dollars on my library. I have almost all the resources I need. I certainly don't need another five hundred random books which I will never use in my library, lest it become like a google search. (Humorous aside: One fellow defined a google search like this- "I wanted to find a certain restaurant, so I called information. They told me, 'We found your restaurant. It's on Earth.' ")
I do want the new features, and I'm willing to pay for them (I'm not asking for freebies). But I don't want any more 14th century works for which I haven't a specific need.
Here's what the L5 upgrade page tells me-
Sorry, but I think that's nuts. I want to keep my Scholar's Platinum, my current resources plus the individual ones I'd like to add (thank you, Logos, for breaking up all those bundles!!!), and get the L5 engine.
So again, WILL THIS BE A POSSIBILITY or not?
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
Comments
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Doc B said:
So again, WILL THIS BE A POSSIBILITY or not?
I recommend you follow the threads in the "Logos 5" forum instead of the "General" forum. A number of them ("Upgrading" and "For the Nth time...") are trying to get clarification from Logos on this question. The "free engine" will eventually be available. But we don't know about a moderately-priced "minimal crossgrade", which would include the new features and databases that the free engine won't have.
Donnie
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Doc B said:
So, is there any official confirmation (or denial) of a crossgrade in the future?
If so, when?
There will very probably be a crossgrade in the future.
When is unknown, but probably after Christmas (my guess).
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:Doc B said:
So, is there any official confirmation (or denial) of a crossgrade in the future?
If so, when?
There will very probably be a crossgrade in the future.
When is unknown, but probably after Christmas (my guess).
Richard,
I was about to reply to your (similar) post in another thread, but I'll keep it here:
Unless you have a little blue cross under your picture, this doesn't count.
Please don't take that personally, because it isn't personal. But I've seen the lay of the land change within the hour or so I've been on the forums this afternoon. when I started, everyone was sure a crossgrade was coming. Now, they are pretty sure one isn't.
So I'm still waiting.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B. Unless some decision was made recently, a crossgrade is coming. Don't have time to search through the threads, but it is there somewhere.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
Doc B. Unless some decision was made recently, a crossgrade is coming. Don't have time to search through the threads, but it is there somewhere.
Then Lynden, what about this?
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414094.aspx#414094
That's why I keep saying, if you don't have a little blue cross under your picture, your hearsay doesn't matter. (Nothing personal.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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If my memory of Logos 4 is correct, the upgrades were released in November and the crossgrade was available in January, after the Christmas sales had finished.
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Doc B said:
Then Lynden, what about this?
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414094.aspx#414094
That's why I keep saying, if you don't have a little blue cross under your picture, your hearsay doesn't matter. (Nothing personal.)
In the same thread, this post was clarified.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414274.aspx#414274
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Doc B said:
So, is there any official confirmation (or denial) of a crossgrade in the future?
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
That's all I was looking for. And, you have the little blue (or white) cross under your name, so it counts!
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Jonathan Pitts said:
If my memory of Logos 4 is correct, the upgrades were released in November and the crossgrade was available in January, after the Christmas sales had finished
My guess is that it will be in December. I think the present promotion will last till the Thanksgiving weekend. After that the upgrades will slow down and my guess is that by early December the crossgrade will be available. Bob just said that the date had not been determined and so obviously it will be determined by how long the the sales continue at a high pace. The majority who want to upgrade will have done it by then.
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It is ridiculous not to have it ready on day 1. They would make a lot of money on the cross-grade and they are just forsaking their customers who have been supporting them. It is a ridiculous and terrible business practice. They didn't even respond to my emailed concerns. Terrible....
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David Taylor Jr said:
They didn't even respond to my emailed concerns
Did you read Bob's post? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
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David Taylor Jr said:
It is ridiculous not to have it ready on day 1. They would make a lot of money on the cross-grade and they are just forsaking their customers who have been supporting them. It is a ridiculous and terrible business practice. They didn't even respond to my emailed concerns. Terrible....
Knowing how they had to stagger the Perseus roll-out because of demand on the servers, I believe (and this is just my opinion) that you may be under estimating the demands that are being placed on logos servers and customer service.
I also expect there will be some "Black Friday" surprise that creates a run on their servers so I expect the minimal cross grade will happen the week before or the week after Thanksgiving (depending upon how much sales traffic) logos is experiencing with the current upgrade promotion.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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alabama24 said:David Taylor Jr said:
They didn't even respond to my emailed concerns
Did you read Bob's post? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
Yes I read Bob's post, it actually did not address concerns I wrote in an email. It wasn't just about the crossgrade, there were other issues about business practices. I'm glad there is a cross-grade coming, but it is not fair to people who want to give them money for new features and have already made a significant investment in the company. If anything, the cross-grade should have come first and base packages later.
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David Taylor Jr said:
It is ridiculous not to have it ready on day 1.
I disagree, David. I don't think it was necessary they have it ready on Day 1, and I don't think they are obligated to release it for some period of time. What I wanted was some clear communication (which finally came) on the IF and WHEN it would be released. That would determine for me if I needed to pay for an upgrade I don't want now, while the thing is still in an introductory status, or if I could wait and pay for the data sets instead of a bunch of resources I don't care for.
In my opinion, Bob has answered these concerns directly and I take him at his word. I wish that info had come sooner, but I'm guessing so probably does he.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Once again, my concerns are not only about the cross-grade. There are other factors I need Logos to address to me personally about certain practices that don't need to be discussed on the forums. The Cross-Grade availability is just a slap in the face to existing customers.
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"Slap in the face!" Wow.
I try to imagine all the Logos staffers that (I guess) have spent literally years trying to bring the new tools to market. They must really be dedicated.
And the customers are so excited their slapping each other. Or playing like they were slapped!
Those tools must really be hot!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I may be alone on this (or too distracted by the election [:)]), but I'm perfectly happy with L4. If L5 is better, fine. I'm in no hurry to engage in another learning curve, though it may not be as great as it was from L3 to L4. I'm sure this is in a thread or FAQ, but I haven't had time or the desire to investigate.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Happily L4 will remain supported for a good while. Enjoy :-)Bill Moore said:I may be alone on this (or too distracted by the election
), but I'm perfectly happy with L4.Godliness with contentment is great gain...
Yes the Move from L3 >>L4 was a big change, but L4 >> L5 is a very shallow curve apart from the new tools.Bill Moore said:I'm in no hurry to engage in another learning curve, though it may not be as great as it was from L3 to L4.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
David Taylor Jr said:
Once again, my concerns are not only about the cross-grade. There are other factors I need Logos to address to me personally about certain practices that don't need to be discussed on the forums. The Cross-Grade availability is just a slap in the face to existing customers.
I purchased Logos software after dealing with other Bible software companies had no upgrade or cross-grade path. You would buy a new computer and the software did not work on the new computer. The only option was to buy the software again. That is a slap in the face. I don't mind waiting knowing that an upgrade is on its way and that I won't lose the use of my library.
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Wayne said:David Taylor Jr said:
Once again, my concerns are not only about the cross-grade. There are other factors I need Logos to address to me personally about certain practices that don't need to be discussed on the forums. The Cross-Grade availability is just a slap in the face to existing customers.
I purchased Logos software after dealing with other Bible software companies had no upgrade or cross-grade path. You would buy a new computer and the software did not work on the new computer. The only option was to buy the software again. That is a slap in the face. I don't mind waiting knowing that an upgrade is on its way and that I won't lose the use of my library.
I think that happened with a preacher friend of mine a couple years back. balanced perspective. thanks.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Wayne said:
I purchased Logos software after dealing with other Bible software companies had no upgrade or cross-grade path. You would buy a new computer and the software did not work on the new computer. The only option was to buy the software again.
Which one was that?
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
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I would be less dissappointed if they would simply give a release date, just give a date.
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David, I'm happy they put some consideration into what to include in the minimal crossgrade. (I'm myself hoping that it will include enough so that I don't have to upgrade to a base-package such as Platinum (it would really feel like wasting money to do such an upgrade since almost all of the content is highly uninteresting to me). I want Gk functionality, I'm discussing this in: Force a theology and Logos 4 OLL)
David Taylor Jr said:it is not fair to people who want to
give them money for new features and have already made a significant
investment in the company. If anything, the cross-grade should have
come first and base packages later.Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
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Bill Moore said:
I may be alone on this (or too distracted by the election
), but I'm perfectly happy with L4. If L5 is better, fine. I'm in no hurry to engage in another learning curve, though it may not be as great as it was from L3 to L4. I'm sure this is in a thread or FAQ, but I haven't had time or the desire to investigate.I'm very glad L4 is working out for you and helping you grow spiritually, as well as helping you teach others. When all is said and done closeness to our Lord is all that matters. May God continue to bless you with his Word.
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Unix said:
David, I'm happy they put some consideration into what to include in the minimal crossgrade. (I'm myself hoping that it will include enough so that I don't have to upgrade to a base-package such as Platinum (it would really feel like wasting money to do such an upgrade since almost all of the content is highly uninteresting to me).
My concern (not fear, concern) is that the minute the crossgrade is available, it will show that it doesn't come with the new data sets, and any discounts on the base packages (Gold in particular, the minimal to get the data sets) will disappear.
Like you, almost none of the content, other than maybe the Lexham stuff, is of interest to me. Some of it actively repels me...I'd hate to pay for it. But it may be necessary if I want the new data sets.
If the worst-case scenario is forthcoming, I'll have a decision to make...stick with L4 for the next few year until it becomes no-longer functional, or upgrade and pay for content I don't want.
Hopefully that scenario won't materialize.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
Hopefully that scenario won't materialize.
Having been with Logos through the last 3 updates, it seems very unlikely.
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I enjoy the Logos product and have added quite a few resources to it. I can't wait for the crossgrade to be official. I would upgrade with a base package, but I am a seminary student and the academic discount doesn't apply to upgrades - just new packages.
If I upgrade from my current package (silver) to portfolio, I would spend $754.54 more than if I just bought portfolio from scratch. So, I already have a large library with a percentage of the books and it costs more to upgrade and buy all of the books from scratch. The difference is smaller if I upgrade to other packages, such as platinum or Diamond, but even for those it costs more to upgrade than to buy new. How does that make sense?
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Jeffrey Visser said:
If I upgrade from my current package (silver) to portfolio, I would spend $754.54 more than if I just bought portfolio from scratch. So, I already have a large library with a percentage of the books and it costs more to upgrade and buy all of the books from scratch. The difference is smaller if I upgrade to other packages, such as platinum or Diamond, but even for those it costs more to upgrade than to buy new. How does that make sense?
Hi Jeffrey,
And welcome to the forums!
I do not work for Logos and, therefore, cannot answer definitively, but this does not seem correct to me. Have you tried the link,
If the upgrade price still doesn't make sense to you, I would strongly suggest you contact Sales either by telephone or email to clarify and confirm.
Blessings in your decision [:D]
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What it appears to be is that because I am a seminary student, I get a discount on the base packages, but not on the upgrades to the base packages. So in my case, it is cheaper to buy a new package, then to upgrade the current package that I have invested so much in. As I have stated, I appreciate Logos and enjoy the software. I would love to upgrade, but the pricing model does not make sense. It is not just because of the books I own - otherwise it would be cheaper to upgrade than buy a new package.
I am not questioning Logos' morality or intentions as a company. All I am questioning is the pricing model used for this release. It seems out of whack with the rest of the pricing models that have used in the past.
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Jeffrey Visser said:
What it appears to be is that because I am a seminary student, I get a discount on the base packages, but not on the upgrades to the base packages. So in my case, it is cheaper to buy a new package, then to upgrade the current package that I have invested so much in.
Ah, I see. I think I understand a little better why you are seeing a high upgrade price.
Jeffrey Visser said:I am not questioning Logos' morality or intentions as a company. All I am questioning is the pricing model used for this release. It seems out of whack with the rest of the pricing models that have used in the past.
I fully understand your position. I would seriously suggest that you speak with Sales, they may be able to work something out with you.
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Doc B said:
My concern (not fear, concern) is that the minute the crossgrade is available, it will show that it doesn't come with the new data sets, and any discounts on the base packages (Gold in particular, the minimal to get the data sets) will disappear.
Phil Gons said:Graeme Adams said:So, just to confirm we will have a cross-grade in a week?
No official commitment yet, but we're working on it now and could have it live on the website in the next week or two. Again, that's not a guarantee. That represents our current plans. We'll provide a concrete date as soon as it's available.
Graeme Adams said:Any indiction of costs for a 'full feature' cross-grade?
We're still working on the exact contents that the MCs will include. The smaller one, which might lack one or two features, will probably be between $75 and $150. The larger one, with all the features plus a few core resources, will probably be between $150 and $300, depending on which version of the software you're moving from. For Logos 4 users, it'll be on the lower end of those ranges. For Logos 3, it'll be a bit more expensive. For Logos 2 users, even more.
For Logos 5 Starter to Silver users who are just looking to pick up the missing features, it'll be significantly lower. Dynamic pricing will apply to both products, so the ownership discount will be applied as appropriate.
I'll be very surprised if the upgrade prices don't last over Christmas and New Year.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Till now I have spent $14,663 on Logos4 Platinum. Their discount calculator showing a higher price of $1449, but the person(Doc
who spent $6000, gets the upgrade price of $1378. How can you justify this business? My upgrade price is below
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Hi Jain
JAIN THOMAS said:Till now I have spent $14,663 on Logos4 Platinum. Their discount calculator showing a higher price of $1449, but the person(Doc
who spent $6000, gets the upgrade price of $1378. How can you justify this business? Clearly I don't know the specifics of your situation but I can speculate[:)]
I think the key point is that you haven't actually spent over $14K on Logos4 Platinum. Rather you have purchased the Platinum base package and added things to it.
The upgrade calculate compares what resources you have with what is included in the Diamond package and comes up with an answer.
So it looks as though there a lot of the resources you have previously purchased are not included in Diamond hence don't count as far as that upgrade is concerned.
To get a definitive answer on this I suggest you contact Logos sales.
Graham
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Thanks Graham for your reply. I will contact Logos soon.
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Jain,
I purchased my first base package the Pastor's Library in 10/2004 and have bought numerous books and upgrade through several incentives to the L4 Platinum and have spent less than $1200 total. If I were to go to L5 Platinum it would cost slightly more than half my investment for only about 100 new resources. The Diamond vould double the investment cost I have presently and is not financially feasible at this time.
So although I might settle for a cross grade there are always deals around the corner to upgrade. You can frequently upgrade through those. So, although the current deals are sweet, you can always grow down the road too. Depends on whther the resources get you where you want to be. How it is done now days is much better than years past.
In Christ,
Ken
Lenovo Yoga 7 15ITL5 Touch Screen; 11th Gen Intel i7 2.8Ghz; 12Gb RAM; 500Gb SDD;WIN 11
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JAIN THOMAS said:
Till now I have spent $14,663 on Logos4 Platinum. Their discount calculator showing a higher price of $1449, but the person(Doc
who spent $6000, gets the upgrade price of $1378. How can you justify this business? That's something I hadn't considered.
Here's one tidbit that might help: I get an academic discount, so if I convert my total spending to a non-discounted total, it would be more like $9K or $10...that brings the numbers closer together. But still not even.
Perhaps by chance the add-ons I've acquired have been part of the current upgrade package, where by chance many of yours have not? That would give me a bigger discount by the way they say it is calculated.
But the whole thing can get confusing. I just try to deal with that by purchasing resources I know I want and staying away from collections and package deals. For me to buy a collection, it had better be about 99% resources already on my wish list.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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The discount isn't based on "how much you've spent." The discount is based upon the resources you already own.
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alabama24 said:
The discount isn't based on "how much you've spent." The discount is based upon the resources you already own.
I think that's what I said. I just used more, less clear, words.
[:D]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
I just try to deal with that by purchasing resources I know I want and staying away from collections and package deals. For me to buy a collection, it had better be about 99% resources already on my wish list.
Indeed. When L4 came out, I upgraded to L4 Platinum from L3 Gold. It was some $400+ dollars and there were resources in Platinum that I wanted that made it a great deal. Upgrading to L5 Platinum will be $484, to L5 Diamond $1396, and to L5 Portfolio $2500. Diamond and Portfolio are in the forget-about-it category, though they have quite a few resources I would love to have. Platinum may be worth it. Maybe. There are a few resources in L5 Platinum that I wouldn't mind having, but I would probably be better served to spend $100 to get the L5 functionality and then focus the almost $400 difference upon resources that I absolutely will use.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Doc B said:
If so, when?
To quote Bob:
[quote]Why are these not available now? 17 years ago we
made a decision to sell content, not code. We did this because we didn't
like how people were forced to buy upgrades to maintain access to their
library when computers and operating systems changed or were upgraded.
We wanted our users to be able to buy an electronic book and know that
they wouldn't have to pay again to read it just because Microsoft
Windows was updated.Over the years this turned into "you only buy books, the software is free!"
And that has been the case for 17 years, and still is. And for all
those years we have continued to offer free updates, free phone support,
and excellent customer service. And we still will.But we pay the bills by selling new content. So when
we have a major upgrade we reconfigure our bundles, create high-value
collections, and hope that we can sell enough content to cover the
ongoing, cost of free upgrades and free support for everyone who ever
bought an ebook in our format.Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put the Minimal Crossgrade up for sale.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58259/414636.aspx#414636
Note: I modified which text is in bold from the original
In other words, when they've made enough money to cover the costs of the upgraded software (or as much as they are going to?), they'll release the cheaper upgrades and the free software package. At least that's the way I read that paragraph --maybe I'm just reading it wrong, though.
And I'm not trying to be uncharitable, just trying to answer the question that started this thread, rather than going down the path of why these "crossgrades" cost so much.
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Russ White said:
In other words, when they've made enough money to cover the costs of the upgraded software (or as much as they are going to?), they'll release the cheaper upgrades and the free software package. At least that's the way I read that paragraph --maybe I'm just reading it wrong, though.
I think you are. I think you bolded the wrong part. Try this version instead:
Bob Pritchett said:Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put the Minimal Crossgrade up for sale.
They've said they expect it to be released it in a week or two.
EDIT: The latest info just changed to 'next week if nothing unforeseen happens'.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Doc B said:
So, is there any official confirmation (or denial) of a crossgrade in the future?
If so, when?
Done! Got it this evening. And the price was (IMO) more than reasonable...I was happy to pay it for all the new features.
This happened faster than I thought it would. Good on Logos and all those folks working so hard there!
Now I'm gonna go play with my new toys.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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