Is there any books that I can read afresh the controversy between these two? First hand writings if possible would be helpful.
The only thing I know of is not new. <logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.De_perf._justit.;off=11517> Paste this into your command box (assuming you have the Church Fathers).
Of course, there are the more modern day Pelagians such as Arminius and Wesley.
Something weird is going on with the forum. It posted it twice.. maybe it was my fault, it keeps saying error when I post.
Here is Schaff's Bibliography on the controversy. It is followed by an essay on the controversy. You can find it here: logosres:npnf05;ref=Page.p_xii
SELECT BIBLIOGRAPHY OF THE PELAGIAN CONTROVERSY
(Adapted from Dr. Schaff’s Church History, vol. iii)
I. THREE works of PELAGIUS, printed among the works of Jerome (Vallarsius’ edition, vol. xi.): viz., the Expositions on Paul’s Epistles, written before 410 (but somewhat, especially in Romans, interpolated); the Epistle to Demetrias, 413; and the Confession of Faith, 417, addressed to Innocent I. Copious fragments of other works (On Nature, In Defence of Free Will, Chapters, Letter to Innocent) are found quoted in Augustin’s refutations; as also of certain works by CŒLESTIUS (e.g., his Definitions, Confession to Zosimus), and of the writings of JULIAN. Here also belong CASSIAN’S Collationes Patrum, and the works of the other semi-Pelagian writers.
II. AUGUSTIN’S anti-Pelagian treatises; also his work On Heresies, 88, 428; many of his letters, as e.g., those numbered by the Benedictines, 140, 157, 178, 179, 190, 191, 193, 194; and many of his sermons, as e.g., 155, 163, 165, 168, 169, 174, 176, 293, 294, etc. JEROME’S Letter to Ctesiphon (133), and his three books of Dialogue against the Pelagians (vol. ii. of Vallarsius); PAULUS OROSIUS’ Apology against Pelagius; MARIUS MERCATOR’S Commonitoria; PROSPER OF AQUITAINE’S writings, as also those of such late writers as AVITUS, CÆSARIUS, FULGENTIUS, who bore the brunt of the semi-Pelagian controversy.
III. The collections of Acta of the councils and other public documents, in MANSI and in the appendix to the Benedictine edition of Augustin’s anti-Pelagian writings (vol. x.).
IV. LITERATURE.—A. Special works on the subject: GERH. JOH. VOSSIUS, Hist. de Controversiis quas Pelagius ejusque reliquiœ moverunt, 1655; HENR. NORISIUS, Historia Pelagiana, etc., 1673; GARNIER, Dissert. vii. quibus integra continuentur Pelagianorum Hist. (in his edition of Marius Mercator, I. 113); the PRÆFATIO to vol. x. of the Benedictine edition of Augustin’s works; CORN. JANSENIUS, Augustinus sive doctrina S. Augustini, etc., adversus Pelagianos et Massilienses, 1640; JAC. SIRMOND, Historia Prædestinatiana, 1648; TILLEMONT, Mémoires xiii. 1–1075; CH. WILH. FR. WALCH, Ketzerhistorie, Bd. iv. and v., 1770; JOHANN GEFFKEN, Historia semi-pelagianismi antiquissima, 1826; G. F. WIGGERS, Versuch einer pragmatischen Darstellung des Augustinismus und Pelagianismus, 1821–1833 (Part I. dealing with Pelagianism proper, in an E. T. by Professor Emerson, Andover, 1840); J. L. JACOBI, Die Lehre des Pelagius, 1842; P. SCHAFF, The Pelagian Controversy, in the Bibliotheca Sacra, May, 1884; THEOD. GANGAUF, Metaphysische Psychologie des Heiligen Augustinus, 1852; JULIUS MÜLLER, Die Christliche Lehre von der Sünde, 5th edition 1866 (E. T. by Urwick, Edinburgh); Do., Der Pelagianismus, 1854; F. WÖRTER, Der Pelagianismus u. s. w. 1866; MOZLEY, On the Augustinian Doctrine of Predestination, 1855; NOURRISSON, La philosophie de S. Augustin, 1868; BRIGHT, Select anti-Pelagian Treatises of St. Augustine, 1880; WILLIAM CUNNINGHAM (not to be confounded with the Scotch professor of that name), S. Austin and his Place in the History of Christian Thought, being the Hulsean Lectures for 1885; JAMES FIELD SPALDING, The Teaching and Influence of St. Augustine, 1886; HERMANN REUTER, Augustinische Studien, 1887.
B. The appropriate section in the Histories of Doctrine, as for example those of MÜNCHNER, BAUMGARTEN-CRUSIUS, HAGENBACH (also E. T.), NEANDER (also E. T.) BAUR, BECK, THOMASIUS, HARNACK (vol. ii. in the press); and in English, W. CUNNINGHAM, SHEDD, etc.
C. The appropriate chapters in the various larger church histories, e.g., those of SCHRÖCKH, FLEURY, GIESELER (also E. T.), NEANDER (also E. T.), HEFELE (History of the Councils, also E. T.), KURTZ (also E. T.); and in English, SCHAFF, MILMAN, ROBERTSON, etc.
A Select Bibliography of the Pelagian Controversy. (1887). In P. Schaff (Ed.), A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, First Series, Volume V: Saint Augustin: Anti-Pelagian Writings. 1887 (P. Schaff, Ed.) (xii). New York: Christian Literature Company.
That is helpful thanks, are your links working on the bibliography?
I know this is a very old thread, but I've just been doing some research into the Pelagian Controversy and came across some more sources:
An Historical Presentation of Augustinism and Pelagianism from the Original Sources by G. F. Wiggers, D.D. (free in its entirety on Google Books)
Short Reading List from B. R. Rees's Pelagius: Life And Letters (a preview of which is available on Google Books, from which I took this screenshot)
I would start with a pair of essays by Gerald Bonner from Augustinian Studies. (A journal from Villanova, I believe): "Pelagianism and Augustine" in the 1992 volume and "Augustine and Pelagianism" from the 1993 one.
Is there any books that I can read afresh the controversy between these two? First hand writings if possible would be helpful. The only thing I know of is not new. <logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.De_perf._justit.;off=11517> Paste this into your command box (assuming you have the Church Fathers). Of course, there are the more modern day Pelagians such as Arminius and Wesley.
Of course it is very insulting to followers of Arminius and Wesley to be called Pelagian by those fatalist Calvinists, but we cut them some slack since they were predestined to be that way.
Is there any books that I can read afresh the controversy between these two? First hand writings if possible would be helpful. The only thing I know of is not new. <logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.De_perf._justit.;off=11517> Paste this into your command box (assuming you have the Church Fathers). Of course, there are the more modern day Pelagians such as Arminius and Wesley. Of course it is very insulting to followers of Arminius and Wesley to be called Pelagian by those fatalist Calvinists, but we cut them some slack since they were predestined to be that way.
You are reaching back a full year for that one! While I'm sorry that you feel insulted, I'm only speaking the truth. I suppose that you were predestined to be insulted. [;)]
[Y]
I always love the bit in Pilgrim's Progress that implies there's a welcome for both Pelagians and Augustinians/Calvinists in the kingdom of God. Christian reaches the Celestial City, he sees the words over the gate: "Whosever will may come." Once he is through the gate, he looks behind him and sees that on the inside, the gate says "Chosen from the foundation of the earth." [Actually, I'm telling this story from having heard it told several times, but now that I look for the episode inside Pilgrim's Progress, I do not find in it anything about the writing on the inside of the gate. Hmm... Well, it's still a great way to think about predestination.]
You may be interested in reviewing this thread.
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97783.aspx
You may be interested in reviewing this thread. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97783.aspx
I see your post was in reply to mine just above yours. I know about that thread. I started it! [:)] But thanks for pointing it out to any newcomers to this (old) thread who might not have seen it.
Is there any books that I can read afresh the controversy between these two? First hand writings if possible would be helpful. The only thing I know of is not new. <logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.De_perf._justit.;off=11517> Paste this into your command box (assuming you have the Church Fathers). Of course, there are the more modern day Pelagians such as Arminius and Wesley. Of course it is very insulting to followers of Arminius and Wesley to be called Pelagian by those fatalist Calvinists, but we cut them some slack since they were predestined to be that way. You are reaching back a full year for that one! While I'm sorry that you feel insulted, I'm only speaking the truth. I suppose that you were predestined to be insulted.
You are reaching back a full year for that one! While I'm sorry that you feel insulted, I'm only speaking the truth. I suppose that you were predestined to be insulted.
I did not notice the date, but you are either unaware of what is Pelagian or what is Armenian / Wesleyan. But I think you are predestined to remain so, and an this is not the place for theological debate.
I suggest you review the Canons of Dordt.
Deleting my own comment - it went a bit too far off topic.
You may be interested in reviewing this thread. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97783.aspx I see your post was in reply to mine just above yours. I know about that thread. I started it! But thanks for pointing it out to any newcomers to this (old) thread who might not have seen it.
I see your post was in reply to mine just above yours. I know about that thread. I started it! But thanks for pointing it out to any newcomers to this (old) thread who might not have seen it.
Sorry. I was intending it for the OP of this thread, and may have missed a previous reference to it.
[:S]
