Queen Mother: A Biblical Theology of Mary’s Queenship
Comments
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MJ. Smith said:
I would suggest that you check out Mary Through the Centuries: Her Place in the History of Culture by Jaroslav Pelikan [not in Logos] as this is a case where an understanding of church history - east & west - is more helpful in understanding than the Biblical defense.
Thanks M.J. Maybe you could suggest that Logos carry this book as I can see how it would be helpful.
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Steve said:
Hi Bruce, Sleiman already replied but I wanted to make sure you were clear. The book of which you are asking about is Dr. Sri's published discertation. It's a little dense at times but worth the effort. Blessings, SteveBruce Dunning said:Steve said:This is Ted Sri's doctoral discertation. It is very scholary. The table of contents is below. Writing style can be seen in the sample pages from Chapter One. I'm not sure if it acceptable that I post the brief introduction here. I would be happy to do so if someone could give me a ruling and if it would help the forum readers. Let me know.
I would love to read this dissertation. It is available for purchase?
Thanks Steve, I didn't realize it at first but I came to that conclusion shortly after I made my first post.
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MJ. Smith said:
Southern Baptist? http://www.firstthings.com/article/2007/03/evangelicals-and-the-mother-of-god-40
Anyone know this resource? Mary for Evangelicals: Toward an Understanding of the Mother of Our Lord by Tim Perry
Thanks for the link, excellent stuff!
The Perry book seems to go into the same direction, but with a strong foundation in credible exegesis of the NT, whereas I'm not personally convinced of the relevance of the OT queen mother we're to get in the resource this thread is about.
Thus "Mary for Evangelicals" would be a really nice addition to Logos (that's what I took from the look-into pages in Amazon - unfortunately, no kindle edition and the paperback sells for ~25 bucks (or more, even used copies seem to be more expensive if shipping to the outer rim of the galaxis center of Europe is included).
Have joy in the Lord!
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Bruce Dunning said:
This resource is currently being offered by Logos at discount for the month of May - http://www.logos.com/product/20535/queen-mother-a-biblical-theology-of-marys-queenship?utm_source=catholic&utm_medium=email&utm_content=4487577&utm_campaign=verbum2013q2
I am not Catholic and have always been puzzled by their approach to Mary. I would be interested in hearing reviews of this book from different perspectives and would appreciate if anyone could point out to other Logos resources that speak about this topic from different perspectives.
How is that a "discount"? The only price given for comparison is the print price, not the Logos regular price, and the "discount" is only $1.05, a mere 7% off the print price.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric Weiss said:
How is that a "discount"?
The discount offer was sent to Bruce via email… (He probably shouldn't have said anything about it [:P]). Your best bet would be to contact customer service.
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MJ. Smith said:Bill Rust said:
You might check this out for a Biblical refutation to mariology:
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/john-macarthur-on-mariolatry-part-1/
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/john-macarthur-on-mariolatry-part-2/
I'm glad this is not typical of John MacArthur. It does serve as a very good example of why one should read Pelikan, Macquarrie and Sri to have an accurate picture of what you are accepting/rejecting. These blog posts earn their own personal, ultra-large and rare version of the famous hound
[Y][Y] (Part of me wants to give more, but I only have two thumbs)
If ANYTHING deserves your fallacy hound, the posts linked above do. Quite simply, just because two people use the same term (Queen of Heaven in this case) does not mean that it means the same thing to both. For those who see this, please consider that the meaning of the Hebrew "Baal" is Lord, and so it would seem MacArthur should say ever calling our God "Lord" is condemned by the Bible which condemns worship of Baal many times.
I will grant that it is a danger. I will even grant that some popular Roman Catholicism has been overly enthusiastic about this. But so far, whenever Rome officially states her views about Mary, I see her speaking of Mary's unique historical role in the life and ministry of Jesus and drawing conclusions from this. I do not quite agree with all of the conclusions, but it would be a caricature of Rome to not acknowledge where they come from.
SDG
Ken McGuire
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
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The email was sent to those subscribed to Catholic and liturgical resources email list. The coupon code for a 15% discount is [deleted to comply with Logos policy]alabama24 said:Eric Weiss said:How is that a "discount"?
The discount offer was sent to Bruce via email… (He probably shouldn't have said anything about it
). Your best bet would be to contact customer service. 0 -
Sleiman said:
The email was sent to those subscribed to Catholic and liturgical resources email list.alabama24 said:Eric Weiss said:How is that a "discount"?
The discount offer was sent to Bruce via email… (He probably shouldn't have said anything about it
). Your best bet would be to contact customer service.
Could someone who is "in the know" please clarify If I should have not said anything about the discount? Is it okay to share discount codes here on the forums?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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MJ. Smith said:Bruce Dunning said:
I am not Catholic and have always been puzzled by their approach to Mary.
I would suggest that you check out Mary Through the Centuries: Her Place in the History of Culture by Jaroslav Pelikan [not in Logos] as this is a case where an understanding of church history - east & west - is more helpful in understanding than the Biblical defense.
Apart from this book mentioned by MJ, the two books regarding Mary I would most like to see in Logos (and which also deal with the question of this forum topic) would be:
Mary and the Fathers of the Church: The Blessed Virgin Mary in Patristic Thought by Luigi Gambero
This book goes through the early Church Fathers one by one, summarizing what they thought about Mary, with excerpts from their works. Some of the Church Fathers it covers include Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Hippolytus, Athanasius, Jerome, Agustine, etc.
Mary in the Mystery of the Covenant by Ignacio de la Potterie.
Ignacio de la Potterie was professor at the Pontifical Biblical Institute and was also member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission. This book provides both exegesis and theology of the passages dealing with Mary in the New Testament.
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Sleiman said:
The email was sent to those subscribed to Catholic and liturgical resources email list. The coupon code for a 15% discount isalabama24 said:Eric Weiss said:How is that a "discount"?
The discount offer was sent to Bruce via email… (He probably shouldn't have said anything about it
). Your best bet would be to contact customer service. Sleiman,- even though Logos employees sometimes give away coupon codes in the forum, the overall forum policy asks us not to do this. Logos wants to remain sovereign over where and to whom they make certain offers (twitter-followers, facebook friends, forum users, subscribers to different mail streams etc.)
- You may want to edit your post accordingly.
- It seems that, in the past, users who were not aware of the coupon code but could direct their sales agents to the respective promotion they received the rebate, so, nothing's lost.
MickHave joy in the Lord!
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Bruce Dunning said:
Is it okay to share discount codes here on the forums?
Only for Logos employees. Others may point to it (e.g. " Today's 'daily deal' on Twitter gives 50% on the fabulous resource XYZ ! " ) but should refrain from posting the code itself.Have joy in the Lord!
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Bruce Dunning said:
Could someone who is "in the know" please clarify If I should have not said anything about the discount? Is it okay to share discount codes here on the forums?
No, discount codes are not to be posted on the fora.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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NB.Mick said:
Only for Logos employees. Others may point to it (e.g. " Today's 'daily deal' on Twitter gives 50% on the fabulous resource XYZ ! " ) but should refrain from posting the code itself.Bruce Dunning said:Is it okay to share discount codes here on the forums?
George Somsel said:Bruce Dunning said:Could someone who is "in the know" please clarify If I should have not said anything about the discount? Is it okay to share discount codes here on the forums?
No, discount codes are not to be posted on the fora.
I sort of suspected this and that's why in my original post I didn't include the code. On the other hand I did make mention of this discount. Please clarify if this is okay as I think it is okay and I would direct people to sign up for mailings which would allow them to receive future discounts. Surely this is even what Logos desires.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Sleiman said:
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I edited my post. Bruce will need to edit the quote in his post to delete this. I apologize!NB.Mick said:You may want to edit your post accordingly.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are requesting me to edit. I just provided the link to the resource and didn't provide the code.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Sleiman said:
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I edited my post. Bruce will need to edit the quote in his post to delete this. I apologize!NB.Mick said:You may want to edit your post accordingly.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are requesting me to edit. I just provided the link to the resource and didn't provide the code.
Not in your initial post, but when you cited Sleiman's post here you included the coupon code.This is not a big deal, no need for apologies etc. but since Logos gives us a lot of freedom here, I think we all want to comply with the limited set of rules they set up (see the sticky post by Phil Gons top of this forum if you wonder about these).Have joy in the Lord!
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Bruce Dunning said:
I just provided the link to the resource and didn't provide the code.
In your last post on page 2, you quoted someone who had given the code.
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Bruce Dunning said:
in my original post I didn't include the code. On the other hand I did make mention of this discount. Please clarify if this is okay as I think it is okay and I would direct people to sign up for mailings which would allow them to receive future discounts. Surely this is even what Logos desires.
Yes, as far as I can see this is perfect.MickHave joy in the Lord!
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Bruce Dunning said:Sleiman said:
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I edited my post. Bruce will need to edit the quote in his post to delete this. I apologize!NB.Mick said:You may want to edit your post accordingly.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are requesting me to edit. I just provided the link to the resource and didn't provide the code.
You included it in your quotation of Sleiman. It's still there.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bruce Dunning said:
I sort of suspected this and that's why in my original post I didn't include the code. On the other hand I did make mention of this discount. Please clarify if this is okay as I think it is okay and I would direct people to sign up for mailings which would allow them to receive future discounts. Surely this is even what Logos desires.
Please don't think I was picking on you… I "stuck" my tongue out at you to show I was teasing a little… I knew you meant only good. [:)]
To answer your question here: I don't think you should have mentioned the discount, because others may not be eligible for it. Some users can get really mad when they think an offer isn't extended to them. If it had been on a blog or on twitter, you could (and should!) have directed them to those pages. With email codes, some are given out broadly (i.e. to Verbum subscribers), while others are given out "only" to you and others who fit into the spaminator calculator (Dr. Doofenshmirtz would be proud) for resources owned, past purchases, etc. In either case, Logos has suggested that they don't want us sharing the codes.
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Again, very well put, Ken.Ken McGuire said:But so far, whenever Rome officially states her views about Mary, I see her speaking of Mary's unique historical role in the life and ministry of Jesus and drawing conclusions from this. I do not quite agree with all of the conclusions, but it would be a caricature of Rome to not acknowledge where they come from.
Yes. And on the other hand, popular Protestantism has been overly enthusiastic against it! There is (and rightly so) much common ground about Mary than many on either side are aware. The book and article that MJ referred to highlighting this fact.Ken McGuire said:I will even grant that some popular Roman Catholicism has been overly enthusiastic about this.
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That's the right attitude: read what the other side has to say for an informed judgement. I'm pretty sure you already know this and agree with me about this recommendation but it's also for whoever is reading this: Please keep on reading, and learning, never stop.George Somsel said:While I am not a Catholic and never have been, I bought the book and read it immediately since the treatment of Mary by the Catholic Church has always been a matter of disagreement with me.
I have only read snippets and not the whole book, so could you please post a logos link to that part in the resource discussing this? I'd like to get a closer look at it. Thanks!George Somsel said:In regard to Is 7 it is assumed that the עלמה was the queen mother
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NB.Mick said:
Not in your initial post, but when you cited Sleiman's post here you included the coupon code. This is not a big deal, no need for apologies etc. but since Logos gives us a lot of freedom here, I think we all want to comply with the limited set of rules they set up (see the sticky post by Phil Gons top of this forum if you wonder about these).Bruce Dunning said:Sleiman said:
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I edited my post. Bruce will need to edit the quote in his post to delete this. I apologize!NB.Mick said:You may want to edit your post accordingly.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you are requesting me to edit. I just provided the link to the resource and didn't provide the code.
Thanks so much for pointing this out. I didn't purposefully put the code here but I did use a quote that included it. I have now since edited it.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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alabama24 said:
I don't think you should have mentioned the discount, because others may not be eligible for it.
I see no reason why he shouldn't. I've been very grateful the times people have mentioned discounts I wasn't aware of, thereby giving me the chance to e-mail and ask myself.
alabama24 said:Some users can get really mad when they think an offer isn't extended to them.
Maybe my memory is on vacation, but I have a hard time remembering such posts.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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alabama24 said:
I don't think you should have mentioned the discount, because others may not be eligible for it. Some users can get really mad when they think an offer isn't extended to them.
I'm not sure I agree with you. I think mentioning the fact that discounts are available is a motivation for people to join the mailing lists.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
I didn't purposefully put the code here but I did use a quote that included it. I have now since edited it.
Thanks a lot.Have joy in the Lord!
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Sleiman said:
I have only read snippets and not the whole book, so could you please post a logos link to that part in the resource discussing this? I'd like to get a closer look at it. Thanks!
Done (It's in the TOC)
<logosres:qnmthrbblclthmr;ref=Page.p_54;off=850>
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Peace, George! Firstly, I plan to buy this resource very soon ...... Just haven't gotten around to it with "busyness" as per usual ............. *smile*
Second - Thanks for the "citation" code. Logos is getting pretty "clever" with the previews, eh???? It takes me to Logos.com shows me the contents and preview and shares very gently and encouragingly that I can buy the book ... Still smiling!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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I understand that the more general topic of Mary in the OT (not only the queen mother theme) may not be as interesting to you; but because I personally find it fascinating and others might as well, I'm going to share a few more recommendations for checking this out.NB.Mick said:whereas I'm not personally convinced of the relevance of the OT queen mother we're to get in the resource this thread is about.
Mariology draws a lot from studies about Mary in the OT. Think Eve, Sarah, Hannah, Judith, Esther, the Ark of Covenant itself, etc. A good synopsis of this is in P.E. Benedict XVI's book (available in Logos): "Daughter Zion: Meditations on the Church's Marian Belief".
This link provides downloadable mp3's of a couple of lectures by Dr. Lawrence Feingold about Mary in the OT. Read about a summary of the lectures in this blogpost.
Lastly one of my all time favorites: Have you heard of St. Louis de Montfort? Logos has a collection of his works on CP. His treatment of Rebecca as a type of Mary in his book on the true devotion is so beautifully written it's unparalleled anywhere else as far as I know. You can read it online here.
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