Creating a budget and cancelling orders
I've created this Faithlife group now: Creating a budget and cancelling orders.
New members can join immediately.
Like I've written in the description of that group, there is also some discussion at: Outdated and expensive.
The group is about budgets for treats and for helping each others to decide to cancel some book orders.
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A perpetual enigma that rascal Desire
Haunting and pricking the fickle heart
To purchase what has not been budgeted for
It lights and entices and sets one's pocketbook afire
Oh how I wish to be rid of Desire!
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Unix said:
I've created this Faithlife group now: Creating a budget and cancelling orders.
New members can join immediately.Like I've written in the description of that group, there is also some discussion at: Outdated and expensive.
The group is about budgets for treats and for helping each others to decide to cancel some book orders.
Cancelling orders should only be done sparingly and in great need. I realize that when we subscribe to an offering we don't know which of our subscriptions will come to publication at the same time so that the need may occur, but it is a commitment even if it is not a firm commitment. Logos is counting on those who have subscribed to fulfill their commitments to actually purchase the resources. It is bound to create some difficulty for the company though I suspect they have an allowance for such.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Here's some advice that should help with your dilemma about cancelling orders:
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Haha!
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CP used to be a way to save money,but now the way they whip things out, I might have to limit what I bid on.
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Evan Boardman said:
CP used to be a way to save money,but now the way they whip things out, I might have to limit what I bid on.
Yes, the same is the case for me.
Armin
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Rosie Perera said:
Here's some advice that should help with your dilemma about cancelling orders:
Maybe Logos could consider carrying that book "Don't Buy Stuff You Can't Afford". [:)]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:
Here's some advice that should help with your dilemma about cancelling orders:
Maybe Logos could consider carrying that book "Don't Buy Stuff You Can't Afford".
Ha ha! And maybe they should charge $3000 for it, and then nobody should ever buy it.
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Rosie Perera said:Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:
Here's some advice that should help with your dilemma about cancelling orders:
Maybe Logos could consider carrying that book "Don't Buy Stuff You Can't Afford".
Ha ha! And maybe they should charge $3000 for it, and then nobody should ever buy it.
I could buy it, read it and then return it. [;)]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:
Here's some advice that should help with your dilemma about cancelling orders:
Maybe Logos could consider carrying that book "Don't Buy Stuff You Can't Afford".
Ha ha! And maybe they should charge $3000 for it, and then nobody should ever buy it.
I could buy it, read it and then return it.
Be sure to not dog-ear the pages. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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bump!
George, I agree with You, but it's healthy to realize You need a budget and those who discuss this are probably in great need of cutting down on expenses!:
George Somsel said:it is a commitment even if it is not a firm commitment. Logos is counting on those who have subscribed to fulfill their commitments to actually purchase the resources. It is bound to create some difficulty for the company
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Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
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But using the logos website perhaps shouldn't be a high a priority every week. Making a quick decision whenever You see a resource on the website is difficult. I usually need a bit of time to consider a purchase, and if I don't make the pre-pub order I may forget about the date when the price for the resource goes up - and that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not going to use it and need it. Compare to the discussion today in: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/71162/496009.aspx#496009
Soon I'm going to try harder for a couple of years to restrict myself from buying.
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Unix said:
Soon I'm going to try harder for a couple of years to restrict myself from buying.
Sorry to hear about your situation. [:(] It is clear that your enthusiasm has waned. We always want as many members to participate in CP as possible, regardless of how it works out in the end.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
But if your 151 Pre-Pubs all ship the same month, what to do? [:O]
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Bruce Dunning said:
Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
The way Logos manages prepubs makes such expectations unreasonable and one sided.
By having the prepub prices jumping after x number of weeks, Logos forces customer to pre-order first and think later.
The fact that no clear timetable is given when you pre-order makes it very difficult to manage pre-orders, especially when many prepubs are published at the same time.
If prices were stable until the day a resource is published and if a timetable was given (at least the month when one expects publication), then it would be reasonable to expect people not to cancel so much.
If Logos is free to postpone release dates (sometimes by months), modify the content of some packages, or leave items in production state for years, then customers too have the right to change their minds when circumstances change or the do not need a product anymore.
I am sure Logos knows that and has incorporated these factors in their business plan, I do not particular like the uncertainty but my first obligation is to show good stewardship of the money I have,
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Steve, I'll gear my enthusiasm towards the resources I have and using them, and to perhaps review some of them.
I might buy approximately two books when I get my income this month (of which I'm sure about the Revised English Bible) but after that I'll only pay resources such as the New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible and UBS Handbook Upgrade, maybe a few more, we'll see:
Steve said:Sorry to hear about your situation.
It is clear that your enthusiasm has waned. We always want as many members to participate in CP as possible, regardless of how it works out in the end: Unix said:Soon I'm going to try harder for a couple of years to restrict myself from buying.
Super Tramp, hope You'll be able to make as good decisions as possible with that outset. Would You like to discuss?Disclosure!
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Alain Maashe said:
By having the prepub prices jumping after x number of weeks, Logos forces customer to pre-order first and think later.
Yeah. What's with that? They raised the Pre-Pub price on The Baker Academic Biblical Studies Bundle and I apparently missed the email. If I want it now I have to trim $340 off my other Pre-Pubs. It leaves a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.
But we also have seen recent reductions in a few Zondervan Pre-Pub prices in an attempt to jumpstart some interest:
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Unix said:
Super Tramp, hope You'll be able to make as good decisions as possible with that outset. Would You like to discuss?
I was referring to Bruce Dunning's comment that he had an order in for every one of the 151 resources in Pre-Pub. If somebody needs an intervention it is Bruce. [:D]
Here is Bruce's quote to say he has orders for "almost all of them."
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Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:
Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
But if your 151 Pre-Pubs all ship the same month, what to do?
I don't think that is going to happen. Logos is pretty good about spreading them out.
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Bruce Dunning said:Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:
Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
But if your 151 Pre-Pubs all ship the same month, what to do?
I don't think that is going to happen. Logos is pretty good about spreading them out.
I still have 9 kids living at home so I can't afford all 151 Pre-Pubs Community Pricing titles. I'm getting very selective with my choices lately and my outstanding list will still buy a good used car. (Were we talking about CP titles or PP titles??)
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Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:
Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
But if your 151 Pre-Pubs all ship the same month, what to do?
I don't think that is going to happen. Logos is pretty good about spreading them out.
I still have 9 kids living at home so I can't afford all 151 Pre-Pubs Community Pricing titles. I'm getting very selective with my choices lately and my outstanding list will still buy a good used car. (Were we talking about CP titles or PP titles??)
$266.90 the remainder of the month with more to come next month.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
$266.90 the remainder of the month with more to come next month.
I'm down to $124 left in June but if I want the Baker Academic Biblical Studies Bundle I will have to go lean for a while. I really wish I knew when it will ship.
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Super Tramp said:
I still have 9 kids living at home so I can't afford all 151 Pre-Pubs Community Pricing titles.
Wow, 9 kids is a quiver full! What a blessing!
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Bruce Dunning said:
Wow, 9 kids is a quiver full! What a blessing!
Oops. I was counting my wife and self in that 9.
Six of my children have left home and seven still live here. Thirteen total. By year's end 8 grand-children. I bought the Logos Organic Onesie for the youngest.
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Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:
Wow, 9 kids is a quiver full! What a blessing!
Oops. I was counting my wife and self in that 9.
Six of my children have left home and seven still live here. Thirteen total. By year's end 8 grand-children. I bought the Logos Organic Onesie for the youngest.
Organic? Is he going to eat it? [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:Bruce Dunning said:
Wow, 9 kids is a quiver full! What a blessing!
Oops. I was counting my wife and self in that 9.
Six of my children have left home and seven still live here. Thirteen total. By year's end 8 grand-children. I bought the Logos Organic Onesie for the youngest.
Wow Super Tramp. I am even more impressed. You and your family are true Logos supporters. As I said before, you are blessed! (not that you didn't already know this [;)])
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I understand, we thought we were seeing daylight when our oldest left the house and we only had six kids at home, but she came back and brought a husband and two little ones. Add to this, my father-in-law now lives with us and 13 has become the magic number.
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Bruce, a big bunch will ship over a somewhat short period of time!:
Bruce Dunning said:I don't think that is going to happen. Logos is pretty good about spreading them out:
Super Tramp said:But if your 151 Pre-Pubs all ship the same month, what to do?
: Bruce Dunning said:Personally I don't think someone should place an order if they are not planning to actually keep it.
You were talking PP. The purpose of this thread and the Faithlife group is all orders, including those You've bought during the last 29 days or so:Super Tramp said:(Were we talking about CP titles or PP titles??)
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Don't fall pray for the thought that "My library is weak on x ..."!
if Your library is weak on something for years, that's a good sign.
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Maybe the "wealth" in this passage is the Logos store and "pleasures" buying and reading any book You want?
Lk 8:14 (1989 REB): That which fell among thistles represents those who hear, but their growth is choked by cares and wealth and the pleasures of life, and they bring nothing to maturity.
Lk 8:14 (1966 JB): As for the part that fell into thorns, this is people who have heard, but as they go on their way they are choked by the worries and riches and pleasures of life and do not reach maturity.
Lk 8:14 (2006 RSV-2CE): And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.
* [Sorry I couldn't check this verse in UBS Translator's Handbook right now, as I have it opened to a passage in Jn and the ancient Mac interface (running on an emulator) is not that easy to use and/or I'm not used to it yet.]
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Unix said:
* [Sorry I couldn't check this verse in UBS Translator's Handbook right now, as I have it opened to a passage in Jn and the ancient Mac interface (running on an emulator) is not that easy to use and/or I'm not used to it yet.]
Perhaps you haven't had it long enough. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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The Bible has started to speak to me now that I read it through again since a long time, now I see passage after passage warning me.
Yes, one of my problems is that I want to have books for a long time, so I imagine that if I buy something on a sale or pre-pub now I'll have most of my life on me to read it. In reality I may never finish or utilize somehow all the books I have now + the ones I have on pre-pub.
Yes, having no internet, I'm a bit tired of trying to locate an online manual for it (Accordance 9), and I've had it only since April 2013, and I haven't used Mac since I studied programming 9 years ago (where I used the Mac only briefly, the time before that was in youth high-school):
George Somsel said:Perhaps you haven't had it long enough.
: Unix said:* [Sorry I couldn't check this verse in UBS Translator's Handbook right now, as I have it opened to a passage in Jn and the ancient Mac interface (running on an emulator) is not that easy to use and/or I'm not used to it yet.]
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Most people might realize this already: but today I've been thinking extra about waiting if I don't need a resource within the next two years - x number of years from now there will be better resources on the same topic or my interest in the topic or title may have faded and then I have saved a buck by not buying upon impulse and imagined need.
It's common to think at start that You need a resource. But You have resources already - when are You getting to the newly bought resources? These are good questions to ask.
I think in a two-year perspective. Forcing myself to reading my "entire" library (it's OK to own a few handfuls of not useful resources) faster than that would be wrong. AND things don't change much in two years: my interests in different topics, the "urge" ... So everything is fine if I will utilize a resource that is now on pre-pub within two years after it has shipped and been paid.
How long is Your perspective and how have You arrived at that?
I want quality but I don't always know what quality is. Obviously I follow discussions and see what's recommended and I learn to know people here on Logos User Forums so that I understand a little about why they recommend particular resources. But one shouldn't be buying everything that is recommended.
What is recommended is to be Christian. Read the Bible in Gk. Have faith. Have a grasp of history. Many things beyond that are superfluous - I don't need to be able to preach on every book of the Bible and every Apostolic Father and Second Temple Judaism writing, every "Gnostic" writing or every important person in Christianity.
I do need some kind of reference literature, and I would probably say most people need unless they know their whole Bible by heart and have already been careful to look up things they are a bit uncertain about, to understand it.
Researching persons shouldn't be based upon looking up every time You see a name You are unfamiliar with, but on studying select persons. And selecting the objects is the critical part.
One should invest some thought-hours every now and then into making divisions between what is reference, what is elaboration/deeper knowledge, and what is a bit distant but good-to-know.
Examples of the latter are: how Christianity can be experienced in India (Oxford History... in Logos and Companion God by Montague as printed matter come to mind) or Performance Criticism (set in Logos) or Ethica by Spinoza (a terrific manuscript has newly been found but the book, printed matter, is still very expensive so have to wait for that price to drop!).Disclosure!
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One way of placing less orders, would be to when looking for collections, looking at the authors for mixed denominational backgrounds including Catholicism. There's less of such collections. Now that I've realized this again I'll start implementing that at once!
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My library is starting to get so big that I wonder whether I'll be able to read it!? How much do You think is realistic to read in say 11 years if focusing a lot on the purchased books? I will probably have studies and after that work, but probably part time, a large part of that time.
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Unix said:
My library is starting to get so big that I wonder whether I'll be able to read it!?
The benefit of a large library within Logos isn't the ability to read every book... It is the ability to perform a search on any given topic and getting better results.
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Unix said:
My library is starting to get so big that I wonder whether I'll be able to read it!? How much do You think is realistic to read in say 11 years if focusing a lot on the purchased books? I will probably have studies and after that work, but probably part time, a large part of that time.
1 [bk/da] X 365 [da/yr] X 11 [yrs] = 4015 [bks to read]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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What You both mean is that I should usually just read select pages or chapters from a book and not the whole book to manage to keep an average pace of say one book every fourth third day?
I want to read through some books though.
It's sometimes a bit hard to know what questions to ask if not having read that many books.
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Unix said:
What You both mean is that I should usually just read select pages or chapters from a book and not the whole book to manage to keep an average pace of say one book every third day?
I want to read through some books though.
It's sometimes a bit hard to know what questions to ask if not having read that many books.
I don't think anyone would recommend sitting down to read the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary cover to cover or for numerous other works. I don't buy books according to how many I anticipate being able to read in that fashion during my 959 remaining years of life. I buy books that interest me and hope to eventually be able to either read them entirely or at least sample them. Really, Unix, you ask some rather inane questions. If you want to be sure to be able to read everything in your library, why not purchase a book and begin reading it only ordering another when you approach finishing your reading? [:|]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thanks for clarifying! I had thought that since commentaries were among the first things I invested in, that I should read through a large part of them. I for example read Lk volume 1 and Mt 8-20 in Hermeneia cover-to-cover last year. I've read also a few smaller commentaries cover-to-cover or when it comes to the book of the Bible I'm interested in:
George Somsel said:I don't think anyone would recommend sitting down to read the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary cover to cover
Yes, to keep up with the pace I buy new books, is good advice!:George Somsel said:Really, Unix, you ask some rather inane questions. If you want to be sure to be able to read everything in your library, why not purchase a book and begin reading it only ordering another when you approach finishing your reading? [:|]
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[:(] My, that is very good ...er... convicting. Pardon my ignorance, but who wrote that?Kendall Sholtess said:A perpetual enigma that rascal Desire
Haunting and pricking the fickle heart
To purchase what has not been budgeted for
It lights and entices and sets one's pocketbook afire
Oh how I wish to be rid of Desire!
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Michael Childs said:
My, that is very good ...er... convicting. Pardon my ignorance, but who wrote that?
+1
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I'm going to keep the 12-year $4,000 budget for books (4% of income), but during an initial period from late 2013-2014 it looks like it's going to be quite a bit over the average I had thought: Maybe I have to have a little bigger book budget while I go to uni?
A big chunk will go to: Oxford History of the Christian Church (16 vols.) $619.95 on pre-pub.
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That's valuable, but I would say more use for the books than that, is necessary:
alabama24 said:The benefit of a large library within Logos isn't the ability to read every book... It is the ability to perform a search on any given topic and getting better results:
Unix said:My library is starting to get so big that I wonder whether I'll be able to read it!?
I've kept growing my library. But I'm going to take a break now. I wrote the first post in the Faithlife-group: Creating a budget and cancelling orders - those who are interested please join and let's help each other! The kind of help I would eventually need, would be whether it's a good approach to do linear studies and invest a lot in that, and at what point I should buy a commentary set for friends with an extra account I've created. Other than I'm (/we are) OK. It would be valuable to help each other regarding these things!Disclosure!
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We build the Book Cache program to help Logos users set and maintain a budget. Learn more about it here: Logos.com/Book-Cache.
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There's a real problem with some forum members trying to trick us into cancelling our orders.
Like many, I try to not use my head, saving all that intelligence for when I'm older. So, just like clockwork, I cancel orders.
Then along comes Melford (sp?) who happily says he got 'his' book while it was on CP or PP, while 'I' got mine at full price. I feel so like the grasshopper vs the ants back in grade-school. Then Ray says 'there's a better way'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've spent more than I should, haven't used a large part of the books yet, and I have two very big pre-pub orders. There's something about the shopping-pattern and the desire to cover many topics.
I'm using the Book Cache program but I don't put in more money regularly as I would have to make a phone call and I don't have much more money. It would be good if You could both have money in the Book Cache and set a limit how much to spend in for example 4 months. Each user should be able to start the limit any month:Denise said:There's a real problem with some forum members trying to trick us into cancelling our orders.
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bump! This weekend I'm trying to get my total open pre-pub orders below $1,580. A few items ship next week, starting November 4.
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