Restrict resource & program updates to once daily
I'd like to repeat a request I made some time ago (too busy to look up right now), to restrict resource and program updates to once per day.
Today I got 2 updates that were released within a couple hours of each other. Each update was one book.
I guess what I'm asking is that Logos create an update queue that closes the "gate" for all releases to a certain time of day, and that that "gate" is only opened once per day. The only exception would be for interim releases that fix bugs causing major problems with the program (release as soon as ready).
I know this creates some issues on the Logos side of things, but the way it is now creates problems on the user end, especially when I need to restart Logos each time and index after each new arrival, rather than once for all of them. I had to pause indexing to write this suggestion, since indexing took up too much overhead on my system to allow Firefox to keep up (or course I have 12 tabs open in Firefox, which doesn't help).
NOTE: as I am writing this, Logos is downloading yet another update, which will require me to restart Logos and indexing for the third time since I started Logos this morning. #frustration
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
Comments
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Richard DeRuiter said:
I'd like to repeat a request I made some time ago (too busy to look up right now), to restrict resource and program updates to once per day.
Today I got 2 updates that were released within a couple hours of each other. Each update was one book.
I guess what I'm asking is that Logos create an update queue that closes the "gate" for all releases to a certain time of day, and that that "gate" is only opened once per day. The only exception would be for interim releases that fix bugs causing major problems with the program (release as soon as ready).
I know this creates some issues on the Logos side of things, but the way it is now creates problems on the user end, especially when I need to restart Logos each time and index after each new arrival, rather than once for all of them. I had to pause indexing to write this suggestion, since indexing took up too much overhead on my system to allow Firefox to keep up (or course I have 12 tabs open in Firefox, which doesn't help).
NOTE: as I am writing this, Logos is downloading yet another update, which will require me to restart Logos and indexing for the third time since I started Logos this morning. #frustration
Suggestion: Schedule your updates for some time such as 3:00 am then do the whole enchilada at once.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Richard DeRuiter said:
I guess what I'm asking is that Logos create an update queue that closes the "gate" for all releases to a certain time of day, and that that "gate" is only opened once per day.
I thought we already did this, but I guess I could be wrong...
The home page should list the resources that were updated. Can you paste the names (or a screenshot) here, so I can investigate when and why those resources went out when they did?
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Richard DeRuiter said:
, to restrict resource and program updates to once per day.
I actually prefer to get multiple updates in some circumstances - when I purchase online or over the phone I want it immediately regardless of any pre-pubs that may be coming.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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yes been happening to me too.. Francis Chan stuff..
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Richard DeRuiter said:
I'd like to repeat a request I made some time ago (too busy to look up right now), to restrict resource and program updates to once per day.
Today I got 2 updates that were released within a couple hours of each other. Each update was one book.
I guess what I'm asking is that Logos create an update queue that closes the "gate" for all releases to a certain time of day, and that that "gate" is only opened once per day. The only exception would be for interim releases that fix bugs causing major problems with the program (release as soon as ready).
I know this creates some issues on the Logos side of things, but the way it is now creates problems on the user end, especially when I need to restart Logos each time and index after each new arrival, rather than once for all of them. I had to pause indexing to write this suggestion, since indexing took up too much overhead on my system to allow Firefox to keep up (or course I have 12 tabs open in Firefox, which doesn't help).
NOTE: as I am writing this, Logos is downloading yet another update, which will require me to restart Logos and indexing for the third time since I started Logos this morning. #frustration
This is already possible quite easily;
when resources are ready to be added to your library;
Don't hit restart until you are ready to index your library. Logos does not force me to restart and works perfectly fine when resources are downloaded but not added or indexed.
Otherwise people will buy books to use NOW and have to wait till tomorrow to utilize them. And imagine the extra load on the servers if everyone's updates were held behind a gate until a specific time.
Just because resurces are ready to be added does not mean you have to restart immediately.
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DominicM said:
yes been happening to me too.. Francis Chan stuff..
If this was the OP's problem, then the cause is not resource updates, but new unlocks (see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/72171/504022.aspx#504022).
Our systems don't support batching up multiple independent unlocks to happen only once per day.
I'm going to assume this was a one-off issue. If it is a recurring problem, you can use Program Settings to limit automatic downloads to a certain time window; this will almost always ensure that updates only happen once per day.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
If this was the OP's problem, then the cause is not resource updates, but new unlocks (see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/72171/504022.aspx#504022).
Okay. I thought I had those already in Logos. Maybe I only had them in Vyrso? I'm not sure. Like the other screen shot, the report on my home page said "update" not "new resources." I have to be somewhere else shortly. After I get back I'll look at my laptop and see if those books are in Logos before I let anything update there.
Either way I didn't know that the unlock issue worked differently. Now I do.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Okay. I thought I had those already in Logos.
You probably did, but you had the "eBook" (i.e., Vyrso) edition, not the "Logos" edition. In this particular case, a separate copy of the resource was created when these resources were upgraded to Logos editions.
As a result of this, you'll have two copies of each book in your Library, and ratings/tags/highlights/notes/etc. will not transfer over. You will probably want to hide the "eBook" edition and keep the "Logos" edition.(In the future, we plan to upgrade the resources in-place, to avoid these duplicates. See Bob's post here for more information: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53707/393427.aspx#393427)
Richard DeRuiter said:Like the other screen shot, the report on my home page said "update" not "new resources."
The home page message may not differentiate between these two scenarios. (I'd have to check.)
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Hi Bradley
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:You probably did, but you had the "eBook" (i.e., Vyrso) edition, not the "Logos" edition. In this particular case, a separate copy of the resource was created when these resources were upgraded to Logos editions. As a result of this, you'll have two copies of each book in your Library, and ratings/tags/highlights/notes/etc. will not transfer over
I was reflecting on this in http://community.logos.com/forums/p/72171/504698.aspx#504698 - glad to have the confirmation of what should be happening.
However I have only got one copy of these resources:
"Crazy Love" - for example - shows as being a Logos edition and that it was updated yesterday and I can only see one in my library.
However, my orders show that I "purchased it" (it was free on Vyrso) on 6 April last year.
Am I missing something here or isn't something working as expected?
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
Am I missing something here or isn't something working as expected?
Due to the separate nature of the Vyrso/Logos catalogue, Vyrso books are not upgraded to Logos books. Instead, when a Vyrso book becomes a Logos book:
- A new Logos resource is created.
- Owners of the old Vyrso resource are given a 'free' licence to the new Logos resource.
- The old Vyrso resource is retired and hidden from your library.
So far as Logos is concerned, they're two entirely different resources (which is why you also lose highlighting and catalogue metadata, and why any links you've made to the old resource will no longer work). Bradley obviously wasn't aware of step 3, but there are a small number of resources that Logos 'hide' from you. It's still in your catalogue, and actually probably still on your hard disk, but you can't access it.
This link will attempt to open the old volume logosres:F4FDBFBFB40BCF855C8CF2BB55C42DCD. It won't let you open it, but you can click on the info panel still. It's an entirely different volume from the new one: logosres:rsnghllwhtgdsdt
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I suspect that someone ran a script to replace the license to the vyrso book with the Logos book yesterday for all users - and had to run the script separately for each title. Personally I am thankful for the upgrade to the free books I "bought".
I had no notes in my old ones. If I did, I admit that I would be less pleased if those were lost. But in general, I trust Logos to solve these migration issues - they have a long history of respecting book licenses from one product to another.
SDG
Ken McGuire
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Mark Barnes said:
This link will attempt to open the old volume logosres:F4FDBFBFB40BCF855C8CF2BB55C42DCD. It won't let you open it, but you can click on the info panel still. It's an entirely different volume from the new one: logosres:rsnghllwhtgdsdt
Off topic question - is is possible to set things up so that we have the option of opening these links on Biblia instead of opening Logos 4/5?
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Mark Barnes said:
Bradley obviously wasn't aware of step 3
Mark is correct; I had assumed we would leave duplicate resources in your library, rather than automatically hide the retired one.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Mark Barnes said:
Bradley obviously wasn't aware of step 3
Mark is correct; I had assumed we would leave duplicate resources in your library, rather than automatically hide the retired one.
Well, you have left the Vyrso version in my library in the past, so Logos has not been consistent on this practice.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Mark Barnes said:
Bradley obviously wasn't aware of step 3
Mark is correct; I had assumed we would leave duplicate resources in your library, rather than automatically hide the retired one.
On balance - thinking about things like tags, ratings, notes and highlights - leaving duplicates in the library would seem to be a good idea.
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Mark Barnes said:
So far as Logos is concerned, they're two entirely different resources (which is why you also lose highlighting and catalogue metadata, and why any links you've made to the old resource will no longer work).
This is scary!
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:(In the future, we plan to upgrade the resources in-place, to avoid these duplicates. See Bob's post here for more information: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53707/393427.aspx#393427)
You need to fix that!
Ken McGuire said:in general, I trust Logos to solve these migration issues
In general, I don't trust them at all. I've seen far too many threads where people have lost hours or days or weeks of work. And half the time they don't even bother to reply to such posts, much less restore things.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:Ken McGuire said:
in general, I trust Logos to solve these migration issues
In general, I don't trust them at all. I've seen far too many threads where people have lost hours or days or weeks of work. And half the time they don't even bother to reply to such posts, much less restore things.
I suppose you are right. They are pretty good at keeping their content that we paid for, but notes migration (our work) has not been a priority and has been a pain for those who take lots of notes. To be honest, that is why I don't keep my notes there.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Ken McGuire said:
notes migration (our work) has not been a priority and has been a pain for those who take lots of notes
It's not just note content:
- My note formatting was corrupted by an upgrade 11 months ago, and now again with 5.1. I can't even get anyone to take a look at it.
- I lost all my Guide Templates when I updated to L5. The only answer I got to that was a completely false claim that it only affected one guide.
- We regularly see people who lose one or more Layouts, that they may or may not remember how to recreate.
- People have lost tags, Favorites, highlighting, Collections...
What bugs me even more than the loss, is how little they care about it. And what bugs me even more than how little they care about what's happened, is the fact that ignoring it means that they won't learn how to prevent it the next time.
With other companies, you get an e-mail from the CEO with a profound apology before you've even noticed anything yourself. With Logos, you could as well be talking to a wall.
Ken McGuire said:that is why I don't keep my notes there
To me, a note outside Logos isn't worth writing, since I'll never see it again.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
(In the future, we plan to upgrade the resources in-place, to avoid these duplicates. See Bob's post here for more information: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53707/393427.aspx#393427)
You need to fix that!
Fix what?
We already upgrade thousands of resources in-place, to fix typos, add new data type links, etc. Is there a specific problem you're trying to identify that we should fix?
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fgh said:
- My note formatting was corrupted by an upgrade 11 months ago, and now again with 5.1. I can't even get anyone to take a look at it.
I assume this is referring to http://community.logos.com/forums/t/71732.aspx. As far as I know, there is no systemic issue in Notes that is affecting multiple users. This problem appears to be localised to your system. For us to fix it, we would have to access and modify your personal note content. Do we a) have your permission to download and inspect your data to see what the problem is, and b) have your permission to automatically push changes to attempt to fix it?
fgh said:- I lost all my Guide Templates when I updated to L5. The only answer I got to that was a completely false claim that it only affected one guide.
I assume this is referring to http://community.logos.com/forums/t/65317.aspx. It looks like we were replying to the OP in that thread and didn't see the additional points you had raised. Do you still need/want us to try to recover those guide templates, or have you recreated them since then? Again, do we have your permission to rifle through your sync data to get enough information to recover these templates?
fgh said:- We regularly see people who lose one or more Layouts, that they may or may not remember how to recreate.
- People have lost tags, Favorites, highlighting, Collections...
I read a lot of forum posts, but these don't seem like commonly-reported problems to me; perhaps I've just missed all the relevant forum threads? I'm not aware of any known issues that are causing widespread data loss of the type you're describing. I'll ask QA to keep a special eye out for these reports. (I'm not asking you to do our job, but if you happen to have a list of threads describing these type of problems, that would be helpful.)
fgh said:
What bugs me even more than the loss, is how little they care about it. And what bugs me even more than how little they care about what's happened, is the fact that ignoring it means that they won't learn how to prevent it the next time.
With other companies, you get an e-mail from the CEO with a profound apology before you've even noticed anything yourself. With Logos, you could as well be talking to a wall.
I'm sorry that this has been your experience with Logos. I hope that our past and future work in responding to customer inquiries and complaints in the forums (sometimes with a post directly from the CEO) can help change your opinion.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Wow. Mark is not only an able programmer and a good video production artist, but he also reads minds.
Very impressed! [:)]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Little time for long posts lately. Plus my CPU issue came back when I installed SR1, so whatever time I had, I lost on that. I would really appreciate if you or someone helped me find a permanent solution for it.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:fgh said:Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:(In the future, we plan to upgrade the resources in-place, to avoid these duplicates. See Bob's post here for more information: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53707/393427.aspx#393427)
You need to fix that!
Fix what?
Fix what both you and Bob said you'd fix: a seamless transition from Vyrso resource to Logos resource. You can't just delete a book that people may have hundreds of notes and highlights in and replace it with another copy.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:I assume this is referring to http://community.logos.com/forums/t/71732.aspx.
Yes.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:As far as I know, there is no systemic issue in Notes that is affecting multiple users.
The link to the older thread shows clearly that the original issue affected multiple users. And I've seen several similar threads lately, so it looks like multiple users this time as well.
As for fixing it, can we deal with that on the tread above. It gets so complicated to have one discussion spread over two threads.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:It looks like we were replying to the OP in that thread and didn't see the additional points you had raised.
Unfortunately, it is all too common that employees abandon threads in the middle of a conversation. Even when they themselves ask for more information, they quite frequently never come back to read it. It is extremely frustrating.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Do you still need/want us to try to recover those guide templates, or have you recreated them since then?
I finally got around to recreating the My PG/My EG/My BWS ones some weeks ago, and if I lost any saved guides, they don't matter, since I never saved them intentionally. But if you can dig out a simple list of what other Guide Templates I had, I would appreciate it. It would be nice to at least know if I'm missing something interesting.
But the most important thing at this stage is that you figure out what went wrong, so that it doesn't happen again. You clearly hadn't done that yet, since you believed it only happened to one guide.
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:I read a lot of forum posts, but these don't seem like commonly-reported problems to me; perhaps I've just missed all the relevant forum threads? I'm not aware of any known issues that are causing widespread data loss of the type you're describing. I'll ask QA to keep a special eye out for these reports. (I'm not asking you to do our job, but if you happen to have a list of threads describing these type of problems, that would be helpful.)
The more regular losses of [usually only] one layout you know about. They're the threads where people are told to open to a blank layout, and then delete a particular, corrupt, layout (which they may or may not remember how to recreate (I wouldn't for most of my layouts)). That happens far too often. And it seems to happen just as often now as two or three years ago. (Since I don't answer crash threads, I admit the latter impression may be wrong, but they do still turn up in my inbox.)
Plus we lose all changes to the layout every time Logos crashes (and crashes aren't exactly infrequent...).
As for the rest, they've never been "common" or "widespread", it's just that every now and then someone loses something. Sometimes you manage to get it back for them after a lot of fright and frustration; sometimes you never even reply. Sometimes it's something easily recreated; sometimes it's hours or days or weeks of work that's lost forever. Sometimes it's user error due to bad design, or even Tech Support error; sometimes it's seemingly inexplicable. And sometimes you even design losses for us.
No, I don't exactly keep a list, but I can give you some examples (probably not the best, just the ones I happened to find):
Layouts: There's been multiple threads since you changed Layouts earlier this year. I suspect you've read most of them (though you may have missed Denise's).
Collections: Long ago now, but a number of users have reported losing all their collections, including a couple of MVP's. Richard? One of the Mark's?
Tags: e g Missing tags, Loss of tagging resources due to syncing problem
Favorites: e g Warning About Favorites
Notes: Frustrating Notes Experience, Not backing up and losing days of work!, Bug: My Bible notes keeps getting deleted, individual notes that are deleted by accident.
Highlighting: BUG: Update of Faithlife Study Bible moved all highlighting, BEWARE! Watch out for the Emphasis and Solid Colors Markup files (we've had this discussion before.[:)])
Various:
- The content of my 'Last Updated' column was lost when two different employees were too lazy/incompetent/whatever to check if the resource I didn't have was really unlocked (it wasn't), and I was instead told to (completely unnecessarily) remove/rebuild some .db file.
- All my font slider settings were lost with the update to 4.5.
- Things like TOC width, or width and order of library columns, can suddenly change without reason.
- People's visual filters were broken when you suddenly changed the morphology for one ore more resources with L5.
- I believe all sorts of work made in L3 still can't be imported into L4/5. Since I never used L3 I haven't followed the improvements, but I assume Tom and David still has issues, and probably MJ and Denise as well.
- There's too many places where deletion is far too simple and Cmd-Z doesn't work, and you have to try to remember what it was you just accidentally deleted.
Documents.logos.com has certainly helped with some things (and I saw you just added Collections), but still, one never feels secure. One is constantly worrying: "when will it be me?", "what will I lose next?", "how do I find some unconventional way to back this up?".
(No need to rush an answer to this, I'll be short on time the next few days as well.)
(And apologies to Richard for having hijacked the thread.)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
I finally got around to recreating the My PG/My EG/My BWS ones some weeks ago, and if I lost any saved guides, they don't matter, since I never saved them intentionally. But if you can dig out a simple list of what other Guide Templates I had, I would appreciate it. It would be nice to at least know if I'm missing something interesting.
According to my analysis of the sync data, here are the templates:
- Not deleted, sync v1:
- Copy of Bible Word Study
- Cross References
- EG: TC
- My Content only
- My Passage Guide
- Not deleted, sync v2:
- (the guides listed under sync v1)
- My Bible Word Study
- My Exegetical Guide
- Deleted:
- Copy of Bible Word Study
- Copy of Passage Guide
- My Passage Guide (×5)
- My Passageguide
- Placeholder Template
fgh said:But the most important thing at this stage is that you figure out what went wrong, so that it doesn't happen again. You clearly hadn't done that yet, since you believed it only happened to one guide.
To the best of my knowledge, the underlying problem has been identified and fixed. It looks like there may simply have been a miscommunication in the way it was reported on the forums. (Nowhere in our internal bug tracking database do I see it written that it will only affect one guide.)
Since you will be short on time, I don't feel like it would be constructive to compose a point-by-point reply to your post. Instead, I'll just say that we will examine your reports and the linked threads for any actionable items.
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The link posted above allowed me to recover my personal tag info from the "Erasing Hell" book. I had two other Francis Chan books that were converted from Vyrso to Logos at the same time as that one. What are the resource links to "Forgotten God" and "Crazy Love"? Barring Logos copying the personal tag info when the book is upgraded, is there a way for a user to figure out the resource ID when this happens in the future?
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