OT: Intriguing article on digital Bibles

Todd Phillips said:

This may be your experience with phones (production server down, etc), but my phone is quiet unless I need to be contacted. I'd say that most people aren't on-call and don't have to worry about receive random messages at all times.  On Sunday mornings I put my phone on do-not-disturb, but it's probably unnecessary since I've never received a call or text during that time.

HOWEVER, I don't generally use my phone for reading my Bible---I use my iPad, which is not set up to receive messages of any kind.  It has no distractions when I'm in a reading app.  It's a quiet device.  Doesn't that change your view on this point?

Yes, in fact it does make a difference to me, in the bounds of my argument, that your iPad is a quiet device. Because in that case, the "interruption" point doesn't apply. I think smartphones and tablets are used differently--people don't generally carry a tablet around and whip it out of their back pockets at the bus stop. So the way we use them--and are habituated to use them--is different.

That's partly why in the article I focused primarily on smartphones (although admittedly I may have confused the issue by mentioning the iPad by reference at the end).

David Thomas said:

Are these mutually exclusive? I guess we have different understandings of the purpose of corporate gathering. There is room in my ecclesiology for 2 Tim 2:2 and Acts 2:42 (devoted to the apostles' teaching AND the fellowship) on Sunday as well as Mon-Sat. I have had some GREAT conversations with other believers immediately after the worship service when the Holy Spirit used something in the proclaimed Word to surface an issue in a fellow believer's obedience that we were able to refine by discussing it immediately.

I think having a meeting to discuss the passage of the sermon after the service is a great idea.  Whip out your ipad there, but not in the service.  Use a different translation THERE if you wish.

It's better than going home and having "Roast Domine" around the dinner table.

Are intelligent saints on this forum going to stand for these positions:

(1) using electronic devices during service is ALWAYS bad,

(2) allowing congregants to read from their preferred translations is ALWAYS bad?

I hope not.

Lee said:

Are intelligent saints on this forum going to stand for these positions:

(1) using electronic devices during service is ALWAYS bad,

(2) allowing congregants to read from their preferred translations is ALWAYS bad?

 

I hope not.

I will contend that

1. using electronic devices during service is NEVER necessary 
2. using a single translation fosters unity (unless a congregant is illiterate and needs a picture Bible)
3. each person choosing a version to soothe their itching ears is a bad idea. [6]

But then, not everyone thinks I am intelligent.

I think you guys are stuck in a middle ages cathedral (just joking). The world is changing quickly. In kids Bible study, a cornocopea (sp?) of interactive media. Then put away the excitement ... it's time for (continued) worship with the older ones.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/15/technology/innovation/microsoft-touchscreen/index.html 

I still think the Logos view is the future. And 'church' is going to soon be really exciting, with a return to the need for Pauline cautions.

George Somsel said:

Paul Golder said:

"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"

AMEN, brother !  Preach it !!    Seriously, that's not what was said.

I know, but it popped into my head and I just had to. [A]

Paul Golder said:

"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"

In the 1970's I was exposed to, but did not embrace, The Children of God  If they had all read the Bible instead of reading Mo's letters they would not have developed a false definition of "love" nor "flirty-fishing." It is quite dangerous to go with a lovey-dovey theology. The text does matter.

(I really do know what you are saying Paul. And I agree we are not to divide the Body.)

So, ST, did you make it to Thurber? 

Lee said:

Are these problems related to, or exacerbated by, congregants reading from different mainstream translations during service? Seriously? Nothing positive at all with different translations during a service, but all foul, ghoulish evil?

One faith, one hope, one Lord, one translation.  [:D]

http://vimeo.com/60490913

The article asks:

"....can we properly hear James’ “weep and wail you rich people” on a device that weighs in at $529 for Wi-Fi + 3G?"

I chuckled.  Good luck finding a useful device that runs Logos 5.0 and your whole library for that price. 

That truly would be manna from digital heaven.

Photo not original and copied from

http://www.fwcando.org/files/images/manna-from-heaven.jpg

I remember speaking to a largish audience, half of whom were asleep because of the overwhelmingly hot weather.

If someone's cell-phone had sounded with an insane ringtone, that would have made an interesting interruption... [:D]

Chi-Ming Chien said:

Are these forums always so lively? 

Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.

Yes, I've noticed that I've more recently become rather interested in worship. Goodnight!:

Super Tramp said:

touches a sensitive spot, worship.

Super Tramp said:

Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.

I am PLEASED that we are 4 pages deep into a sensitive subject and all posts have remained positive without name calling.

Super Tramp said:

Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.

In a related news, New Zealand bishops recently banned use of electronic versions of missals by priests during Mass. 

For a Catholic (or Orthodox), I can't imagine the ipad or any other tablet or screen being carried in procession or incessed or kissed. So it's not going to replace the paper bible or missal used by priests anytime soon despite the fact that some priests are oblivious to what their bishop says on the matter and insist to use it in some parishes [:@]

But what about the people attending? How many of you have seen the movie WALL-E?  There's a scene where Wall-E interrupts a human engrossed in her screen socializing online and forces her to look around for a few moments. She was amazed at how much there is that she hasn't seen before. Well, this is almost starting to happen to many of us today especially our teens. How many are already spending family dinners texting or checking facebook etc? Isn't time spent during a communal service (whatever you call it, worship, liturgy, service, etc...) supposed to be a little different than the rest of our hectic lives in that it is supposed to elevate us to a better state somehow? We are to expand our hour or two of Sunday worship to the rest of the week, not vice versa. The electronics we use everyday in our lives can take a rest during that time. Or more accurately, we need to rid ourselves from stuff that seem to enslave us all the time.

In addition, the Bible readings during the service are meant to be proclaimed and therefore listened to. Already said before in this thread, but I want to emphasize it from a different angle. Not only because of a common Bible translation, but also the act of listening to the proclaimed word is a communal action in and of itself; burying ourselves in an electronic device (or even a follow-along print out for that matter) isolates us a little from the rest of the congregation and individualizes. 

Having said all that, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ4A7mXJH8

Sleiman said:

Having said all that, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ4A7mXJH8

He has a really irritating voice.  It reminds me of some of the "Blue Grass" groups that are OK while they're "pickin' and grinin' " but who ruin it all by opening their mouths.  The problem with this group is that they look like a bunch of retards.

I could bring the trumpet (and possibly the recorder) if we could get some violins, celli, a double bass and an oboe.  Moving the harpsichord might be a bit awkward.  We could do Bach's Brandenburg #2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNiKx8yHp1w

In all this discussion, the Lord's apostles have not yet weighed in. 

Let me quote from the well regarded Apostolic Constitutions concerning new converts to the Faith:

"Let those who have brought them bear witness for them, whether they are able to listen."

The 'listening' here refers to being able to use the speaking voice function in electronic Bibles.

"To he who has an ear, let him hear!"

Denise said:

In all this discussion, the Lord's apostles have not yet weighed in. 

Let me quote from the well regarded Apostolic Constitutions concerning new converts to the Faith:

"Let those who have brought them bear witness for them, whether they are able to listen."

The 'listening' here refers to being able to use the speaking voice function in electronic Bibles.

Sophistry

To me the issue is not what version an attendee reads to themselves. I really don't care so long as they read silently. The question raised by the article in the original post has to do with electronic devices. If I sit between two people, one reading a different version paper Bible to themselves and the other reading the same version as I but on an electronic device, I will be more distracted by the latter. 

No, I see nothing sinful about the device itself but what effect it has on the worship experience of others does matter. Would it be wrong to use an audio Bible in worship service? What if I am blind? Would my personal needs outweigh those of my fellow worshippers? 

George Somsel said:

Matthew, may I assume that the scripture for the day is read aloud? 

Yes, it is.

George Somsel said:

The blind is therefore in the position of the original recipients of the letter and not at any disadvantage by not being able to read the text.  I would suggest that you try sometime going to a service and simply listening to the reading without following along in your own text.

[H] I am personally in the habit of listening. My eyesight is rather poor and I trust my pastor to read what is actually written. When I do try to follow along it is with my nose in the Bible. My comments were intended to be rhetorical. If someone did not come to listen they should have stayed home.

I think the practise of following along is a modern attempt to be like the commended Bereans, "searching the scriptures."   Although they were not searching a leather bound KJV study Bible or an iPad with Logos.

alabama24 said:

No problem.  I don't know how much of a point I was trying to make other than to Razz my 37 year old friend George. 

I wouldn't want to mislead anyone into thinking I'm younger than I really am—don't forget that I'll be 39 on my next birthday so that makes me 38 now.  [;)]

Lee said:

Are intelligent saints on this forum going to stand for these positions:

(1) using electronic devices during service is ALWAYS bad,

(2) allowing congregants to read from their preferred translations is ALWAYS bad?

(1) Have used my laptop to take notes on the sermon for years.  If asked to look up the scripture am most likely to paste in into the notes.

(2) Often try to use the same version that the speaker uses.   And sometimes compare it to my favorite later.

(3)The suggestion of First the church at school - a planed study, Second the service with the sermon and Third the class to discuss the sermon sounds interesting.  [if we can keep the people at church all day] [Words have power - using all of the [pick favorite language here - I use English] versions help find the OL meaning [sometimes] ]  [but then which OL?]