OT: Intriguing article on digital Bibles
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Paul Golder said:
"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"
AMEN, brother ! Preach it !! [;)] Seriously, that's not what was said.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Paul Golder said:
"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"
AMEN, brother ! Preach it !!
Seriously, that's not what was said.I know, but it popped into my head and I just had to. [A]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Denise said:
In kids Bible study, a cornocopea (sp?) of interactive media. Then put away the excitement ... it's time for (continued) worship with the older ones.
cornucopia
There is no problem if you "Train up" a child to experience the worship service instead of trying to compete with Disney and the entertainment industry. "Train up" in Proverbs 22:6 means "touch the palate." If you give your kids a taste for the "adult" worship service they will enjoy it. Yes, this is a promotion of the family church, not age-segregated, dumbed-down kiddie church.
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Paul Golder said:
"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"
In the 1970's I was exposed to, but did not embrace, The Children of God If they had all read the Bible instead of reading Mo's letters they would not have developed a false definition of "love" nor "flirty-fishing." It is quite dangerous to go with a lovey-dovey theology. The text does matter.
(I really do know what you are saying Paul. And I agree we are not to divide the Body.)
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Paul Golder said:
"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another the same translation"
[:D]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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So, ST, did you make it to Thurber?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Super Tramp said:
We had a woman teaching against the observance of Christmas she learned from JWs.
Super Tramp said:"flirty-fishing."
Are these problems related to, or exacerbated by, congregants reading from different mainstream translations during service? Seriously? Nothing positive at all with different translations during a service, but all foul, ghoulish evil?
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Lee said:
Are these problems related to, or exacerbated by, congregants reading from different mainstream translations during service? Seriously? Nothing positive at all with different translations during a service, but all foul, ghoulish evil?
One faith, one hope, one Lord, one translation. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Denise said:
So, ST, did you make it to Thurber?
?? I did enjoy my education in a different commune. We called the group "The Bromans" or just simply "Marumori." It was truly an example of the first century church. I loved every moment with these people and credit/blame? them for my 19 babies.
And we did it all without electronic devices. Although they did become quite proficient with computers.
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The article asks:
"....can we properly hear James’ “weep and wail you rich people” on a device that weighs in at $529 for Wi-Fi + 3G?"
I chuckled. Good luck finding a useful device that runs Logos 5.0 and your whole library for that price.
That truly would be manna from digital heaven.
Photo not original and copied from
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Nord Zootman said:
I have an older couple who are distracting with their paper Bibles in church. I can tell when I say something they differ with in a sermon because they both start whispering to each other, checking out their notes, cross references, and the concordance at the back of their Bible! Many would find that more distracting than a person on their Ipad. As a pastor you just learn to not focus on their behavior.
I understand. I have been distracted during services when I was preaching and a cellphone that was silenced would suddenly light up in the congregation.
That being said, I'm thinking about preaching from a tablet. (if you can't beat them...)
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I remember speaking to a largish audience, half of whom were asleep because of the overwhelmingly hot weather.
If someone's cell-phone had sounded with an insane ringtone, that would have made an interesting interruption... [:D]
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Lee said:
Are intelligent saints on this forum going to stand for these positions:
(1) using electronic devices during service is ALWAYS bad,
(2) allowing congregants to read from their preferred translations is ALWAYS bad?
I hope not.
I wouldn't subscribe to either of those positions, particularly given the all-caps ALWAYS.[:)]
I'm not of the opinion that multiple translations breed division, although I could see how it would be problematic if congregants assess the preacher based on their particular translation rather than receiving the preached word as something more than one person's "opinion". I'm not a preacher but I'm confident the constraints of time don't always allow for delving into every nook and cranny.
As for electronic devices, it depends on what they nurture both in the individual and in the community. If they nurture Christian character, communal worship, attentiveness and presence to God and one another, then wonderful. If not, then not so wonderful. Either way we should consider how they are used as opposed to buying into them wholesale simply because they are the product of technological progress to date.
Are these forums always so lively? [:)]
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Chi-Ming Chien said:
Are these forums always so lively?
Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Yes, I've noticed that I've more recently become rather interested in worship. Goodnight!:
Super Tramp said:touches a sensitive spot, worship.
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Chi-Ming Chien said:
As for electronic devices, it depends on what they nurture both in the individual and in the community. If they nurture Christian character, communal worship, attentiveness and presence to God and one another, then wonderful. If not, then not so wonderful. Either way we should consider how they are used as opposed to buying into them wholesale simply because they are the product of technological progress to date.
[Y]
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Super Tramp said:
Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.
I am PLEASED that we are 4 pages deep into a sensitive subject and all posts have remained positive without name calling.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Chi-Ming Chien said:
Are these forums always so lively?
This is a place where we mix theology and technology...I think that might be about the only thing more volatile than politics.
Though, of course, we obey the forum rules and never debate theology.
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And it's Rosie to blame [;)]Super Tramp said:Every now and then we get a very interesting topic. This particular thread touches just about all of us. And it touches a sensitive spot, worship.
In a related news, New Zealand bishops recently banned use of electronic versions of missals by priests during Mass.
For a Catholic (or Orthodox), I can't imagine the ipad or any other tablet or screen being carried in procession or incessed or kissed. So it's not going to replace the paper bible or missal used by priests anytime soon despite the fact that some priests are oblivious to what their bishop says on the matter and insist to use it in some parishes [:@]
But what about the people attending? How many of you have seen the movie WALL-E? There's a scene where Wall-E interrupts a human engrossed in her screen socializing online and forces her to look around for a few moments. She was amazed at how much there is that she hasn't seen before. Well, this is almost starting to happen to many of us today especially our teens. How many are already spending family dinners texting or checking facebook etc? Isn't time spent during a communal service (whatever you call it, worship, liturgy, service, etc...) supposed to be a little different than the rest of our hectic lives in that it is supposed to elevate us to a better state somehow? We are to expand our hour or two of Sunday worship to the rest of the week, not vice versa. The electronics we use everyday in our lives can take a rest during that time. Or more accurately, we need to rid ourselves from stuff that seem to enslave us all the time.
In addition, the Bible readings during the service are meant to be proclaimed and therefore listened to. Already said before in this thread, but I want to emphasize it from a different angle. Not only because of a common Bible translation, but also the act of listening to the proclaimed word is a communal action in and of itself; burying ourselves in an electronic device (or even a follow-along print out for that matter) isolates us a little from the rest of the congregation and individualizes.
Having said all that, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ4A7mXJH8
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David Thomas said:
I am PLEASED that we are 4 pages deep into a sensitive subject and all posts have remained positive without name calling.
If it will help I can call George a name or two.[^o)]
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Sleiman said:
Having said all that, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ4A7mXJH8
He has a really irritating voice. It reminds me of some of the "Blue Grass" groups that are OK while they're "pickin' and grinin' " but who ruin it all by opening their mouths. The problem with this group is that they look like a bunch of retards.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:David Thomas said:
I am PLEASED that we are 4 pages deep into a sensitive subject and all posts have remained positive without name calling.
If it will help I can call George a name or two.
Go ahead. I'm sure you can't think of anything I haven't already been called.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I could bring the trumpet (and possibly the recorder) if we could get some violins, celli, a double bass and an oboe. Moving the harpsichord might be a bit awkward. We could do Bach's Brandenburg #2.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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alabama24 said:
Why is it OK for you to bring an OL copy,...
The real New Testament is the Greek New Testament. The English is simply a translation of the New Testament, not the
actual New Testament. A.T. Robertson, The Minister and His Greek New Testament. New York: George H. Doran, 1923Unless, of course your superscribe to the Aramaic primacy of the Peshitta but then again those too are mostly translations[;)]
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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BKMitchell said:alabama24 said:
Why is it OK for you to bring an OL copy,...
The real New Testament is the Greek New Testament. The English is simply a translation of the New Testament, not the
actual New Testament. A.T. Robertson, The Minister and His Greek New Testament. New York: George H. Doran, 1923Unless, of course your superscribe to the Aramaic primacy of the Peshitta but then again those too are mostly translations
What? I don't understand your point. I was just highlighting the discrepancy in George's view (which still exists). If it is WRONG to use another translation because it causes your mind to wander and to create disunity in worship, surely bringing the OL would be much more the case!
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Sleiman said:
I can't imagine the ipad or any other tablet or screen being carried in procession or incessed or kissed.
I wouldn't be too sure, for example:
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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In all this discussion, the Lord's apostles have not yet weighed in.
Let me quote from the well regarded Apostolic Constitutions concerning new converts to the Faith:
"Let those who have brought them bear witness for them, whether they are able to listen."
The 'listening' here refers to being able to use the speaking voice function in electronic Bibles.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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[quote]
In all this discussion, the Lord's apostles have not yet weighed in.
Let me quote from the well regarded Apostolic Constitutions concerning new converts to the Faith:
"Let those who have brought them bear witness for them, whether they are able to listen."
The 'listening' here refers to being able to use the speaking voice function in electronic Bibles.
Good point. I recall a message about how PowerPoint is evil because the preference for communicating God's truth in community is AUDITORY as evidenced in the great Shema - "HEAR, O Israel...." which takes us back to a Historical awareness that owning a personal bible (or even a Family Bible) is a relatively new occurrence in the History of God's people.
Which reminds me to offer a prayer of thanksgiving for Logos Software. How blessed we are to have God's Word available to us in many languages and translations so that we can study, meditate, memorize and be transformed by it!
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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"To he who has an ear, let him hear!"
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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