POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $.....
One of the most hotly discussed threads on http://community.logos.com/forums/ is
the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5656 coming to Logos format. I would like to try a poll for one purpose only. I would hope to encourage Zondervan (maybe they read these things?) to crunch the numbers and see if it would not be beneficial to Zondervan, Logos, the end-users and Church in general to have massive sales at more affordable prices.
Without ranting, venting, complaining or maligning others, let us answer two simple questions:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
OR
2) If you have purchased some of these; Which titles? and How much would you pay to have the whole Zondervan Collection in Logos?
Just give your answers, short & sweet. Then, when they crunch the numbers, maybe they will smile real big and announce a win-win-win-win for Zondervan, Logos, end-users and most of all; the Kingdom. See the following post for my answers. Thank you. I hope it makes a difference.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
Comments
-
1) I would pay $1000 for the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection as a new purchase in Logos.
OR
2) I already bought:
Zondervan Scholar Library,
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis
I would pay $800 for the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection in Logos.[:)] Thank you Zondervan for reading.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
I would pay $1000.
After eliminating the titles I don't really need, I'll probably end up purchasing about $800 worth of Zondervan resources.
0 -
1) $800
0 -
I have purchased, in hardcover:
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE) (5 vols.)
The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 5 (Psalms, Prov., Ecc., SS)
NIV Application Commentary: Daniel (Tremper Longman); Ecclesiastes/Song of Songs (Iain Provan)
Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: New Testament (4 vols.)
How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth
How to Read the Bible Book by BookThe other titles I would want to own would be:
The Expositor's Bible Commentary - remaining volumes
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNT)
NIV Application Commentary - remaining volumes (some are still not available in print: Deut, Ezra-Nehemiah, Job, Psalms vol 2)
Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament
Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible
Africa Bible Commentary
New International Bible Commentary
New International Bible Dictionary
New International Dictionary of the Christian Church
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Characters
New International Encyclopedia of Bible WordsI don't care about anything else in the collection.
I have already taken a big gulp and clicked to order the pre-pub of the whole collection for about $2000. I would much prefer to get it for half that price. Or less.If I bought all the remaining hardcover books from this collection that I want (individually, from Amazon.com), they would cost me a total of $1929. I don't need them all, but I lust after them. And I might as well get them all. So for the privilege of having them, along with the ones I own already in hardcover, in Logos format, I'd be willing to pay $2000. But like I said, I'd much prefer to get it for less if Zondervan and Logos were amenable. Thanks for spurring me on to do this cost analysis.
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
OR$500 Would tempt me, but I don't know where I would get it. there is still good deal territory above that, but not for my wallet. I might purchase some separately, though.
0 -
1) I will not purchase the 'collection' for $2000. I just can’t afford that price for Items I really don’t need or want (like most of the monographs in the collection). IF the collection were closer to $1200, I might be able to afford that, and be willing to pay for additional resources I would like, but not right now.
2) I don't own any of these currently
So what do I plan to do?
I do plan, and will try, to purchase these items separately, in the following order ($790 total):
- Expositor's Bible Commentary - $130
- NIV Application Commentary (OT&NT) - $ 380
- Encyclopedia of the Bible - $280
I’d like to have the following, but don't plan to purchase, especially in the near future ($740 total):
- New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology - $130
- New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis - $ 200
- Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: OT&NT - $410
0 -
Philip Spitzer said:
$500 Would tempt me
Yes, me to [:)] 2000 is beyond my horizon. I ordered some individual series and resources (too many actually [:(] )
Bohuslav
0 -
I've pre-ordered about $800 worth of Zondervan resources. I'd like (for example) the Bible Background Commentaries, which are WAY over-priced. Zondervan don't appear to have realised that what makes those books expensive is that it's full-colour throughough, printed on a heavy gloss. Therefore we should EXPECT not to have to absorb those costs on an electronic edition.
Anyway, the question becomes how much more than $800 would I pay to add a bunch of books I don't really need but perhaps might become useful at some point. The answer is not very much. Certainly no more than $1,000 total.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
$500 would be tempting, but anything over that is out of my price range.
0 -
I LOVE Zondervan's printed resources, and would eagerly add them to my library. Alas, $2000 is way to much for my tiny wallet. [:(] It will probably always remain a dream (until they add them all in a $400 collection sometime - Hint Hint Nudge Nudge Wink Wink!)
0 -
I have already ordered them on pre-pub and I have no problem paying $2000 dollars for them but it would be nice if they gave those of us who paid for the pradis versions some sort of discount but even if they don't will still be buying the pre-pubs those resources are just too valuable to pass up.
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
I would pay no more than $1000 because it is all I can afford. Like someone else said, there are things included that I would not necessarily "need" , but may prove beneficial later on.
0 -
I don’t see where there is much incentive to pre-order. There is not much of a discount and it sounds like Zondervan is going to be offering their own boxed collections of these resources, which historically have been heavily discounted on the internet. It is just like the pre-pubs of the Nelson collections, you can typically find them much cheaper on the internet, than you can from pre-ordering from Logos.
In light of this, the discount would have to be in the 40% range to tempt me.
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
2) If you have purchased some of these; Which titles? and How much would you pay to have the whole Zondervan Collection in Logos?
I've purchased EBC. Was given another title or 2 by Z but no longer have access to them (or to the newer version of Pradis they came with). Ended up at present with just the EBC.
As solo pastor of a small church, I no longer have the means to make large Logos purchases. If it's more than $50 to upgrade EBC to Logos, I probably won't even do that.
Blessings!
Bill
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
In another post in another thread, I asked the question: If you had 100 Logos users in a room, how many will be buying the Z collection at $2000? Five? Drop the price to $500. Now how many will buy it? 25-50? Let's keep in mind that 100-200 lbs. of paper isn't changing hands here. Is it better to sell 1 collection at $2000 or sell 4 collections at $500? I argue that the latter is preferred...because it builds up the user base of those who are using and quoting the resources in the collection. That in turn gives those who encounter the increased number of Zondervan references a reason to purchase the titles, ESPECIALLY in e-format where hotlinks provide immediate gratification. Let's look again at the scenario, because it isn't a question of 1 @ $2000 vs. 4 @ $500 (a wash revenue wise)...it's 5 @ $2000 vs. 25 (minimum) @ $500. In other words $10,000 vs. $12,500...nothing to sneeze at. It's $10k vs. $20k if forty people snap up the 75% off deal...me being one of them.
"Would" I buy it for $1000 or $800? Maybe...it's technically a "fair" price...but that's getting to be pretty stiff, and I have a Portfolio to pay off. I would find a way to come up with $500 though...especially if it was less than $50 a month.
But will any of these scenarios ever see the light of day? Not when people are already pledging themselves to pay the nosebleed price of $2k. Without taking the step of advocating a boycott, simply holding off or cancelling your PrePub will get some attention. We spend our money on all kinds of things...and they sell books. One needs the other far more in this scenario. And it's kind of like the music business; music companies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the mp3 generation, but it's de rigueur now. The music buying public simply demanded it. We can demand what I'm suggesting as well. Besides, I'm not saying they're going to have to take their lumps...I'm saying their going to have to "forced" to count higher profits.
They don't see that now...but we can make them see it.
Oh, btw, this goes for other publishers as well. Even Logos, who is to be highly commended for the value that is their base packages (Portfolio owner here), could do much more along these lines. I'm suggesting meaty packages that include NOTHING found in base packages and are also ridiculously good deals. Perhaps even a "Make Your Own Package" deal, where the % off increases as the dollar amount increases. As far as the effect that would have on PrePubs, I would be willing to pay today (on installment) for packages that were 50% available today with the promise that the other 50% were in production (Hastings Encyclopedia & Dictionary, for instance). I trust Logos (I trust Bob's commitment to CS) enough to provide that kind of cover for their expenses. If we put a little pressure on them, I suspect, with their arm pinned behind their back, they would cry all the way to the bank. But these should be the SAME kinds of values that the base packages are...since only deep discounts dig deeply into my pockets. Anything less...not so much.
Now I'm going to take my coupon and go to Hardee's for dinner. Without the coupon, I'd be staying home.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
I have interest in only a handful of the books - I am more apt to purchase them individually or in a small collection. My eye is already on two collections near the upper limit of my resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
David Paul said:
In another post in another thread, I asked the question: If you had 100 Logos users in a room, how many will be buying the Z collection at $2000? Five? Drop the price to $500. Now how many will buy it? 25-50? Let's keep in mind that 100-200 lbs. of paper isn't changing hands here. Is it better to sell 1 collection at $2000 or sell 4 collections at $500? I argue that the latter is preferred...because it builds up the user base of those who are using and quoting the resources in the collection. That in turn gives those who encounter the increased number of Zondervan references a reason to purchase the titles, ESPECIALLY in e-format where hotlinks provide immediate gratification. Let's look again at the scenario, because it isn't a question of 1 @ $2000 vs. 4 @ $500 (a wash revenue wise)...it's 5 @ $2000 vs. 25 (minimum) @ $500. In other words $10,000 vs. $12,500...nothing to sneeze at. It's $10k vs. $20k if forty people snap up the 75% off deal...me being one of them.
But will any of these scenarios ever see the light of day? Not when people are already pledging themselves to pay the nosebleed price of $2k. Without taking the step of advocating a boycott, simply holding off or cancelling your PrePub will get some attention.
Now, that's a really good way to look at it, and an interesting idea! Though I could "afford" to pay the full $2000 for the bundle, I'd certainly prefer not to. I'd already ordered it because (a) I'm lusting after it, and (b) I figure the sooner they reach the number of pre-pub orders they need to make it profitable for them, the sooner they will produce it, and I want it sooner rather than later. But I agree with your logic, David, and I feel for the folks who can't afford it. And I'm willing to cancel my PrePub if that would help. I'm not sure it will, though. This thread needs to be brought to Bob's attention, and he and Zondervan need to be convinced of the validity of your estimate of how many people would buy it at the lower price point.
If we could find out how many people have signed up on the pre-pub already at the current price (I'd leave my order in for the time being) and do an informal pre-pub order poll here with a hypothetical price of $500, and demonstrate to Logos & Zondervan that at least 4x as many people would order it if it were 1/4 the price, then maybe we'd get somewhere. They'd see that it would be a win-win situation for them. They have already signed a contract, though, which might have legal implications that are beyond our knowledge. It might be difficult or costly (lawyers' fees) for them to renegotiate the contract. Or we might find out that David's guesses were wrong and that the enthusiasm for it just isn't enough higher at the lower price (however, maybe the forum won't reach everybody who might buy it at 75% off). But it's certainly worth trying!
We'd need Bob or some other Logos insider to find out for us how many pre-pub orders have come in thus far. If none of the above reply here, then I'd email Bob about it.
0 -
Paul, I really wish we had kept this in the other thread. It is just as visible there and a bit off-topic here (addressing other than Zondervan.) That being said:
David Paul said:I'm suggesting meaty packages that include NOTHING found in base packages and are also ridiculously good deals. Perhaps even a "Make Your Own Package" deal, where the % off increases as the dollar amount increases.
Now the "Make Your Own Package" deal is the best idea you've suggested. That would address the many differences we all seem to have. I am absolutely tickled with the makeup of the Portfolio package. Some users were not interested enough to buy it.
I trust Bob Pritchett too. I trust him enough to allow him to run his company without twisting his arm.
So enjoy dinner at Hardee's. I ate a 28 cent package of Ramen noodles for supper. (I saw some more Pre-Pubs I am willing to sacrifice for. [:P] )
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
If we could find out how many people have signed up on the pre-pub already at the current price (I'd leave my order in for the time being) and do an informal pre-pub order poll here with a hypothetical price of $500, and demonstrate to Logos & Zondervan that at least 4x as many people would order it if it were 1/4 the price, then maybe we'd get somewhere. They'd see that it would be a win-win situation for them. They have already signed a contract, though, which might have legal implications that are beyond our knowledge. It might be difficult or costly (lawyers' fees) for them to renegotiate the contract. Or we might find out that David's guesses were wrong and that the enthusiasm for it just isn't enough higher at the lower price (however, maybe the forum won't reach everybody who might buy it at 75% off). But it's certainly worth trying!
We'd need Bob or some other Logos insider to find out for us how many pre-pub orders have come in thus far. If none of the above reply here, then I'd email Bob about it.
Rosie, That was what I was trying to accomplish with this "POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $... "
I wanted to avoid the debate and just get the numbers out there.
I guarantee you,
Zondervan is reading this.
Bob Pritchett, President & CEO of Logos Bible Software is reading this
Dan Pritchett Vice President of Marketing is reading this.
Many others, including competitors, are following the "controversy".There is probably a more scientific way to conduct a poll. I'm not a pollster. But a quick perusal of the answers posted makes the same point in a more civil tone and with many more voices. What lesson would Zondervan be teaching the mob if we get what we angrily demand? A peacable, non-threatening dialogue is the better way to approach this.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
Rosie, That was what I was trying to accomplish with this "POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $... "
I wanted to avoid the debate and just get the numbers out there.
Matthew, I think that it was a good idea. And for the most part it has begun to achieve what you set out to achieve.
I have put nothing on prepub because the prepub prices are the regular prices. I will only buy what I really, really want (as already said), about $800 worth. If they want more money from me, they will need to reduce the prices.
0 -
All of these prices are over my head. I have several (certainly not all) of these in Pradis and have never felt that Pradis was a poorly done program. I will keep what I have and be glad for it.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
Now, that's a really good way to look at it, and an interesting idea! Though I could "afford" to pay the full $2000 for the bundle, I'd certainly prefer not to. I'd already ordered it because (a) I'm lusting after it, and (b) I figure the sooner they reach the number of pre-pub orders they need to make it profitable for them, the sooner they will produce it, and I want it sooner rather than later.
LOL, Rosie...your willingness to be upfront about your "lust" for Zondervan titles is EXACTLY what Z is depending on. Morris Proctor kind of said a similar thing (not quite as blatantly) at Camp Logos...he's been waiting for this opportunity a "long" time. It's that "waiting" that is driving many to JUMP at this longed for opportunity, even though it's a deal that could be considerably improved and made less painful for the ones participating. Did I use the term "kicking and screaming" in my earlier post? If I didn't, I should have, because that is just how a big publisher like Zondervan will react to not being able to set the terms of the deal. And believe me, they are used to calling the shots...just ask someone trying to sign a deal with them. They are convinced that they are the experts. That's fine...they just don't have to be the experts with any of our money.
I'm not "playing hardball" because I want to...I'm saying what has to be done if the kind of sea change that ought to be taking place in specialty e-book publishing is going to happen. File sharers forced the issue in music. But that isn't as big a concern these days (from what I've heard), because the whole paradigm of music delivery finally entered the 21st century.
Another thing that all sides of this issue should consider is this: not that long ago (less than a generation, really), very few people would have been buying the kinds of books Logos sells in the numbers they are today. Most reader-users of such resources would have had to settle for the access found at their seminaries, or maybe a university or local library. Today, because of e-books in general (but the phenomena of hyperlinking in particular and the boon that technology provides to researchers), you, I, and literally thousands of others are purchasing multiple multivolume sets. I often wonder at that...couldn't we all somehow "share" our access to such resources? That's how it used to happen--a university or seminary would buy a copy each of ICC, WBC, Anchor, etc. and then dozens and hundreds would use that single set. Now we are buying these things for just ourselves! No one will ever convince me that the sales figures on these items hasn't increased by a double digit factor. And yet I have OFTEN found items new on Amazon that were 10-30% lower the Logos's supposedly discounted everyday sales price!
The issue of "value" of usability has theoretical merit (more than one Logos sales rep has used it on me over the years), but the same could be said for computers, couldn't it? They are now capable of much more so they should cost more, right? Wrong! They are more powerful today than they ever have been, yet the price for laptops has dropped dramatically in the last year. The point is, e-books (and particularly the historically low volume specialty e-books Logos markets) OUGHT to sell for 80-90% less than their so-called hard copy suggested retail price. Of course they are easier and more effective to use. That's exactly WHY they sell each guy and girl his or her own copy, whereas we all used to share one set just a few years ago. It's not just a litlle, but a LOT absurd for publishers to think they can or should get anything even remotely close to what hard copies sell for. Utility isn't irrelevant, it's simply WHY they are suddenly selling like hotcakes. But because of the paradigm shift, the price ought to drop drastically, and VOLUME sales should be the focus.
Because of the peculiar nature of our "business", where history, philosophy, languages foreign and ancient play such a key part in what we do, we desire to have access to a multiplicity of resources at our disposal. As I told Bob at Camp Logos, I am personally convinced that our current state of hyperlinked resources is very likely the "intended" fulfillment of Daniel's "they shall go to and fro and knowledge shall increase". Let's not forget, therefore, this one thing: when things are unaffordable, we are collectively robbed of the insight that may have come from those to whom access was denied. That's just one more reason to go to the "big volume discount" model of WalMart, Costco, and Sam's in the religious e-book business.
I hope the folks who "call the shots" will hear this argument and won't require "convincing". But make no mistake, we can convinced them. There's plenty else in the world to spend money on, especially in an economy where most retailers are doing flips to gain business.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
Rosie, That was what I was trying to accomplish with this "POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $... "
I wanted to avoid the debate and just get the numbers out there.
I guarantee you,
Zondervan is reading this.
Bob Pritchett, President & CEO of Logos Bible Software is reading this
Dan Pritchett Vice President of Marketing is reading this.
Many others, including competitors, are following the "controversy".There is probably a more scientific way to conduct a poll. I'm not a pollster. But a quick perusal of the answers posted makes the same point in a more civil tone and with many more voices. What lesson would Zondervan be teaching the mob if we get what we angrily demand? A peacable, non-threatening dialogue is the better way to approach this.
Wow. I don't know how my post could have possibly come across as debating or angry or demanding or threatening. I'm sorry if it did. That was not at all my emotion in posting it. I was trying to be helpful. I love the spirit of this thread and this conversation, and thought I was contributing to it. :-( I apologize for adding my voice to one who had already diverged from a simple poll that you'd been using this thread for. I guess for that I deserved the scolding. But gee, you sure had me wrong if you thought I was suggesting an angry mob mentality. I was suggesting a collaborative approach that would actually benefit Zondervan and Logos in the long-run. Actually, I can't claim to have had the idea. I was just furthering David's suggestion (which, admittedly, probably didn't belong in this thread).
I know Bob reads this forum, and he's also a fantastic CEO. I too trust that he knows what he's doing with his company.
I was not suggesting arm twisting. Bob is a personal friend of mine. He and I have a relationship going back 15 years or so. We used to work together at Microsoft, and I've been a minor shareholder in the company from the beginning. I know Bob is a busy CEO now, but I do email him from time to time and he appreciates my input and I appreciate his replies.
0 -
Rosie, I think MC's "hammer" was meant for me.
(Sorry, I just couldn't help myself...[:P])
Just to be clear, my reference to "pinning" Logos's figurative arm, as the context clearly suggested, was simply a play on the cliche' of crying all the way to the bank. No one is advocating violence or physical intimidation or hostile takeovers or coups of third world countries. I have a strict policy that no children or animals be harmed in the course of my posting.
I suppose I type how I talk...and it may not go over well for people who don't know me. I say things all the time in conversation in the same manner I do here on the forum and no one bats an eye lash, or if they do, it's while doubled over in laughter. Just remember to use a grain...er, a bag...of salt when reading my posts.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
$500 is what I would pay.
0 -
Removed because it did not really need saying and was off-topic for this thread.
Forgive me for troubling the waters.Back to the topic: So far It looks like
$500 everybody is on the bandwagon.
$800 is do-able for most.
$1000 is the ceiling (with some falling by the way.)Let's hear some more. [:D]
and thanks to EVERYBODY who has posted so far!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
I think $1000 for the lot would be fair; as it is there is basically no discount getting the whole lot compared to the sum of its parts...
0 -
David Paul said:
Rosie, I think MC's "hammer" was meant for me.
(Sorry, I just couldn't help myself...
)Funny, & True. (Nothin' but admiration for you, Rosie.)
ὑπερβολή is one of my favorite tools. I just think using it here will lose the attention of those we hope to gain favor with. I'm betting everybody else gets a special deal but my price went up to $3000 for things I have posted this past month. [:#]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:David Paul said:
Rosie, I think MC's "hammer" was meant for me.
(Sorry, I just couldn't help myself...
)Funny, & True. (Nothin' but admiration for you, Rosie.)
ὑπερβολή is one of my favorite tools. I just think using it here will lose the attention of those we hope to gain favor with. I'm betting everybody else gets a special deal but my price went up to $3000 for things I have posted this past month.
Oh, whew. I guess I inferred that since you'd quoted my post, you were replying to it. Lame assumption. Glad we're still on friendly terms. :-)
And yes, David's "MC Hammer" pun was very funny.
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
ZIBCOT, NIVAC and EBC are on my wish list. $2K seems really steep to me. My gut reaction is about $1,000, maybe $1,200. The truth of the matter is that I will probably only buy a few titles that I really need unless Zondervan decides to run some specials at some point. It's a pity because I really would like to add pretty much all of this to my collection.
0
