WISH: Ability to tag to the LXX, without having to tag to a specific LXX

A recent thread reminded me about something I asked about a couple of years ago:

Say you're working on a PB that you intend to share, and the author specifically references the LXX. You don't want to use a simple automatic link, because the vast majority of readers will then see a non-LXX based translation in the popup. And you don't want to link to a specific LXX, because not all readers may have that particular edition. What you want is to link to the reader's highest prioritized LXX -- a level between a reference link and a resource link -- but unfortunately that's not currently possible. You have to use one of the two less than ideal options.

I presume this problem occurs when Logos creates books as well.

I also presume it's a problem that will become more and more acute as more and more Orthodox books and users are added. Hence a problem that should be on your horizon, if it isn't already. Smile

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Comments

Ken McGuire

I have noticed this as well in making PB's. Sometimes someone will comment on a LXX (or Vulgate) reading of a text. While the current system is amazing at handling the different verifications, it doesn't let you tag the specific reading of these ancient versions.

We could tag it to a specific resource, but there are multiple LXX editions you offer (and Vulgate too) as well as English translations (which some users may want instead of the ancient language).

SDG

Ken McGuire

MJ. Smith

[Y]

Mark Barnes

I agree that this would be useful. Perhaps the easiest way to solve it would be to add a new 'language' parameter to the reference. I would have thought that would solve almost all of these sorts of issues, without needing to change the architecture in anyway (i.e. we could specify logosref:Gen1:1;lang=Greek for the Septuagint).

In the meantime, it's probably best to choose your own favourite, and add a note at the top of the PB, suggesting a search/replace if others users prefer an alternative.

Gabe Martini (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550092#Comment_550092

I will talk to Rick Brannan about possibilities here.

Anyone with a base package can of course prioritize the LES (for English) or its Interlinear for all canonical OT references (Gen–4Macc), which is what I do. Then, any time a reference to the OT is tagged in a volume within Logos, it shows me the LXX version of that passage (assuming there's synonymity).

Of course, this doesn't necessarily reference the exact translation or edition of the text being cited in a given book, and often times they won't match up.

Is the hope here, then, to find a way to identify which translation/edition of a text an author is using, and to then automatically link the user to that resource in their library (assuming they own it)?

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550139#Comment_550139

Is the hope here, then, to find a way to identify which translation/edition of a text an author is using, and to then automatically link the user to that resource in their library (assuming they own it)?

I think the hope is more to see the LXX refererences behave like the church fathers' datatypes: give us the highest prioritized of this resource that's in the library. Most people will probably not want to prioritize a LXX bible for all OT references, and most bibles tend to follow Masoretic text in the OT, with the occasional footnote "so with MT, LXX reads...." (or, rarely, the other way round). The hope here would be to have the links in such remarks work in author-written texts, and also in our PBs.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550139#Comment_550139

Hi Gabe, I think what fgh is looking for is slightly different.

If someone who is creating a PB which references the LXX, she wants to be able to specify this in the PN and for the highest prioritised LXX in the users library to be used. But this shouldnt require the LXX to be prioritised higher than other Bibles.

Hope this is correct!

Graham

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550139#Comment_550139

I will talk to Rick Brannan about possibilities here.

Thanks!

Anyone with a base package can of course prioritize the LES (for English) or its Interlinear for all canonical OT references

But what if it's an Academic work that references the LXX on one line and the MT on the next? No one should have to change prioritization back and forth for the same book.

Is the hope here, then, to find a way to identify which translation/edition of a text an author is using, and to then automatically link the user to that resource in their library (assuming they own it)?

No, in this case it's just about linking to the highest prioritized LXX, when the author makes a point about something that simply won't show up in an MT based Bible. (Or to the highest prioritized MT, if the point is specifically about that, but that's less of a problem, since just about everyone except you Orthodox are going to have an MT based translation prioritized anyway.)

Of course, the best would be if such links showed both the highest prioritized LXX, and the highest priotitized Bible, similar to the internal links in e g the Summa Theologica.

That said, it would also be very useful if the exact translation an author used was identified somewhere in the metadata, when known. MJ tends to express that wish frequently. She likes to read commentaries with the same translation the commentary is based on, which is of course a very sensible habit.

For that reason it would also be useful if there was a much easier way to connect a book with its translation. Advanced Prioritization isn't exactly practical if you have to do it for every book... Perhaps a checkbox under the Visual Filters icon that said something like "Use author's Bible translation"? That way you could easily turn it on/off in all or just the present resource.

Gabe Martini (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550160#Comment_550160

Okay, I'll see what I can find out.

In the mean time, see what you can do about adopting the LXX as your standard text in all areas of life. [;)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550147#Comment_550147

"so with MT, LXX reads...." (or, rarely, the other way round)

The "rarely" part will change as more Orthodox books are published. As Orthodox normally use the LXX, Westerners who venture to read Orthodox books might find that their popups show something that doesn't quite match what the author is talking about. Popups that show both the LXX and the Bible the user is used to would be a great help.

And as the Orthodox userbase grows, I presume they would appreciate the ability to see the MT in the popup when reading MT based books, without having to change prioritization.

Brian Davidson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550165#Comment_550165

LOL!

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550139#Comment_550139

I will talk to Rick Brannan about possibilities here.

So, honestly, I really don't know much about PBBs and how references are specified.

However, internally, we do allow the specification of Bible scheme for the reference tag. This will cause some wonder-riffic auto-translation that will convert the reference+scheme as tagged into a destination for your highest matching preferred Bible.

Looking the wiki (here: http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books#Datatype_links), I'd guess that instead of [[Bible:Ps 119:1]] you could use the Rahlfs-LXX-specific scheme, [[BibleLXX:Ps 118:1]] or the Swete-LXX-Specific scheme, [[BibleLXX2:Ps 118:1]] to represent the reference as using/representing the scheme of a particular Bible. You can find the scheme name in the resource info tab.

Note that this defines the scheme to use to represent the reference, not the target resource. The target is determined by your own resource prioritization.

- Rick

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550400#Comment_550400

Note that this defines the scheme to use to represent the reference, not the target resource. The target is determined by your own resource prioritization.

Yes, the versification system you have internally works quite fine for pb's as well. But, to use an example, say we are discussing the differences between the MT and LXX for Isa. 40.3, it would be nice to be able to create a link that will go to the users favorite MT and favorite LXX.

SDG

Ken McGuire

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550400#Comment_550400

Rick, I was hoping you'd come back after Ken's post, because, like he says, you were answering something completely different to what I asked about.

And it's not just about PB's. I want this for Logos resources as well.