Windows Phone
Wake up, Windows Phone is here to stay. There is absolutely no logic in thinking otherwise. Professionals are going to switch to the windows phone simply because it links effortlessly with their primary business OS and software provider. Please stop dragging your feet LOGOS you are falling behind. Logos 5 is already available on the Windows 8 platform how much more work can there be to making it Windows Phone compatible?
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Windows Phone is here to stay.
That's what the BlackBerry users said. I'm glad we didn't invest in developing for that platform -- we almost did (and it had more users than Windows Phone at that time). :-)
I would love for Windows Phone to be a strong contender. I was on Windows Phone when it was Windows CE; I used my Windows-based phone for a year after the iPhone was released, before giving up. Since then Microsoft has completely redone the platform (breaking all previous Windows-phone apps) at least twice.
My Windows-loving credentials are impeccable. I attended the Windows 1.0 developer's conference. (Yes, 1.0.) I was a software development intern on the Windows 3.0 development team. I had the Windows for Pen Computing SDK 20 years before the iPad was introduced. I bought the first Surface. (I used it this morning. Then left it at home, taking my iPad. Because Ballmer was wrong to say Surface could make it without a cellular data connection.)
We aren't dragging our feet at Logos. We're facing the reality that Microsoft dropped the ball / dragged its feet / couldn't put together a coherent strategy. Apple won this one, and Android is getting the scraps. (People who won't pay Apple's price / hate Apple / want to be different / etc.)
There's nothing left for Windows Phone.
But Microsoft has pulled out a win from behind before. If they do it again, we'll be there to support it.
Windows Phone may be here to stay, but it's not a sure bet. To say 'there is no logic in thinking otherwise' is inaccurate. The logic is Windows CE, Pocket PC 2000, Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 7.5, and Windows Phone 8. And Zune. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile for a history of falling market share and confusing / changing / incompatible strategies.
-- Bob
I moved to windows phone from iPhone a year ago and I am glad that I did, it is great and much better than apple.
Saying that I may well move to android in a year as windows phone is not getting the app traction that I need, but if I do move I will miss windows phone as it is such a great platform.
I selfishly wish that Logos would develop for windows phone but if Logos was my company I would not do so, it is hard enough developing for two mobile platforms, let alone three.
In the meantime, we still need something to accompany us for looking up stuff or to take notes during sermons.
Two possibilities I've found so far in the Windows Phone app store are:
Bible by Lucas: Simple and elegant design. Still a work in progress though.
Pocket Bible by Laridian: More comprehensive with resources to purchase. But then feels like doubling up on my Logos investment. But then it's no good to me if it isn't with me.
I suppose the other way is to buy an 8" Windows tablet for the job but then that would be a little ostentatious. ;-)
Thanks for this mini review on these apps. I plan to give them a try. I'm always being asked for recommendations. I also purchased a Surface Pro 2 tablet and it is awesome. Since it's a 'crossover' computer it works well in both Windows 8 modes. Windows 7 mode & Windows Phone 8/Tablet mode. It's fantastic! You might want to give one a look.
Where is Blackberry now? Bankrupt I believe. If all you say is true why did you even bother with an app for Surface? It appears to me your mind is made up about Windows Phone based on looking at just the failures rather than weighing them against the success of Microsoft. That's a really balanced business approach. I can live without Logos on my phone but rest assured it will not continue receiving the recommendations I have given in the past.
Interesting there was an article on Windows 9 that came out yesterday, by Paul Thurrott, one of the big Windows gurus. Interesting in the article, he paints it as a pretty important upgrade because of the current state of Windows 8 - which reinforces Bob's assessment that it's not worth investment now, if they can turn it around to the point the market accepts it and it builds market share, great. You can read the article at this link, or here is the Windows 8 part:
"But Threshold (next release of Windows) is more important than any specific updates. Windows 8 is tanking harder than Microsoft is comfortable discussing in public, and the latest release, Windows 8.1, which is a substantial and free upgrade with major improvements over the original release, is in use on less than 25 million PCs at the moment. That's a disaster, and Threshold needs to strike a better balance between meeting the needs of over a billion traditional PC users while enticing users to adopt this new Windows on new types of personal computing devices. In short, it needs to be everything that Windows 8 is not."
You anti Microsoft/Windows people say what you will I am quite happy and satisfied with my Windows Phone and operating system and will keep it because it works for me. If you check other threads on this form you will find I am not alone. I will keep my windows phone and do without Logos on it as I have found other alternatives that provide comparable service for the Windows Phone platform as Logos gets left in the dust. Laridian PocketBible meets the need. Others who feel slighted by Logos for their Windows Phone need to check it out. For me that is what I will be using on my phone from here on out as well as the YouVerison app from LifeChurch. God bless!
Richard, no one is anti-Microsoft, it is not necessary to categorize people. For myself, I was just trying to post an explanation from a pro-Microsoft source that might indicate, not that there is anything wrong with your preference, but why this platform is not a priority for Logos and other software companies - your preference of phone is a significantly minority preference.
Enjoy your phone, enjoy your software, enjoy your choices. Peace.
Don, if I offended you, I apologize, that was not the intent. For a company such as Logos whose mission was to provide a tool for all to enhance Bible study, operating platform "market share" should be only a small part of the equation. Any company's primary business goal should be to service the desires of the customers first, who have thru purchasing a very expensive product put the company in the successful posture they are. If Logo's business model is to strictly make money then perhaps we all have been misled in the goals/mission of this organization. While this particular thread in this forum seems to believe that Windows Phone users are a "significant minority" I would suggest that you broden your reading and read other threads that would indicate otherwise, not as it relates to the overall use of windows phone in the total marketplace but more specifically as it relates to the Logos products (which in my opinion is what Logos should be looking at and evaluating not the total marketplace). Also, your statement that "the platform is not a priority to...and other software companies" is misleading should you desire to explore the YouVersion app and the Laridian PocketBible who have been responsive and bold in addressing, perhaps because profit is not their primary objective.
Richard,
If it's any consolation, I don't use the iOS Logos on my iPhone. Screen is too small for these imperfect and aging eyes. The tablet is better. But I use and enjoy using Logos 5 on my Windows 8 laptop. Faster boot that my Win 7 desktop on lesser hardware. Solid performance ... machine running for a week and longer without issue. The whole thing you mention with Office 365 is very helpful, even without the phone. I use it every day. I think you can find many other positive comments in these forums from very happy Windows users. Michael Childs has stated his wonderful experience with the Surface Pro 2 many times. You can search and read his comments, and others as well. My opinion, Logos is the premier bible study software as a whole for the Microsoft Windows environment. Who knows, as Bob pointed out, the phone piece may come along some day.
[:)]
Steve,
I think you may be correct, that basically this is much to do over nothing when it comes to the phone applications, regardless of iphone. android or windows. Thinking back to when I had the Logos software loaded on my prior android phone it was of little value for serious study due the small screen size. I too use the Logos software on my desktop (windows), laptop (windows) and Surface Pro (windows) with much success and satisfaction. I share your observation that for other than scripture reading the typical phone screen is to small for any serious study anyway. All of my computers are operating on the Windows 8.1 OS and it is far superior to the Windows 7 and platforms that preceded it. Much faster. I am quite sure Microsoft will eventually make this the premier OS and with the attitude displayed by Bob and others that the controlling factor for additional development of the Logos software to accommodate the windows phone platform is overall marketshare as opposed to the desire of the Logos client is a flawed approach which will find them in a catch up mode struggling to gain marketshare lots thru timidity. Like you, I will continue to use my Logos Software on the tools that provide the greatest level of serious study (desktop, laptop and tablet) and use the phone platform for scripture reading using the Lardian and YouVersion apps.. Thanks for your encouraging words and perhaps putting this discussion in it proper perspective. God bless!
I am placing this link here only because it describes in great detail Microsoft's elimination of backward compatibility over time that Bob Pritchett mentioned in his post, which makes a software developer think twice about supporting a platform. (This is actually the reason I stopped using Windows phones, my last one was a Windows 6 phone and when they said it would not run Windows 7 even though it was a new phone, I decided that was it - time to stop letting Microsoft obsolete things I have invested in).
This letter is written by David Sobeski, a former Windows Manager who left Microsoft in 2006. It's long but to those interested it gives insight into the decisions Microsoft made internally through the 2000's.
Sobeski's comments are informative. However over the last couple of years there has been a clean out of senior management in MS and things look like they are going to take a new direction.
Somewhere in MS' roots there was/is a requirement for backwards compatibility, but it got obscured in the shuffle and on some product categories got lost altogether.
Ironically, it's that backward compatibility that may have hindered its smartphone strategy. WinMo was just too much like conventional Windows and so didn't migrate well to a small screen format.
Now MS has gone the other way and tried to bring a touch friendly UI to Windows. Look at the hue and cry about that.
Yet, in my experience, with a Win 8 tablet, a WP8 phone and a Win 8 laptop, their current strategy makes a lot of sense. All my data and PIM information is now device agnostic. Its amusing listening to everything chime for the same appointment around the office, even though I'm using Office on the laptop and desktop, Calendar on the Tablet and Windows Phone.
At a macro level it will only be successful if the huge body of applications can be successfully migrated to the new UI and if the UI can accommodate the miriad of use cases that businesses require.
I think Bob's analysis and decision not to support Windows Phone at this juncture and given his more intimate knowledge of Logos' circumstances, is probably the right one. Yet there is more than one way to skin the cat, one of which I have mentioned in a separate post to this thread.
Aloha and good morning all
Yes it is still morning here in paradise.
I am going to have to add my voice and vote for a Windows Phone version of Logos.
I currently use an iPhone 4. But would dearly like to be off it.
I moved to iOS when my old WinMo 6.1 (HTC Touch Pro 2) phone died. The only supported platform then for my mobile Bible app (Laridian Pocket Bible) was iOS.. So I went to Apple (albeit kicking and screaming).
So Logos - please give us a Windows Phone version/thank you.
Since market share is a significant factor in Logos decision regarding a windows phone app. I would be interested in hearing what percentage of market share you think an OS should have before Logos creates an app for it?
I hear you. If it's uneconomic for Logos to do it, perhaps Logos might see its way clear to opening up an API to allow third party developers to do one.Windows Phone is here to stay.We aren't dragging our feet at Logos. We're facing the reality that Microsoft dropped the ball / dragged its feet / couldn't put together a coherent strategy. Apple won this one, and Android is getting the scraps. (People who won't pay Apple's price / hate Apple / want to be different / etc.)
There's nothing left for Windows Phone.
But Microsoft has pulled out a win from behind before. If they do it again, we'll be there to support it.
Windows Phone may be here to stay, but it's not a sure bet. To say 'there is no logic in thinking otherwise' is inaccurate. The logic is Windows CE, Pocket PC 2000, Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 7.5, and Windows Phone 8. And Zune. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile for a history of falling market share and confusing / changing / incompatible strategies.
-- Bob
I am with you Richard I have a Windows Phone 8 phone soon to be upgraded to Windows Phone 8.1 and this is the future. I remember about 5 years ago telling people that android was going to become the number one phone OS on the market and people kept buying iPhones. At that time software companies were hesitant to make Android versions of their applications and look Android is now 70-some percent of the market world wide. Now with all the updates and features Microsoft is bringing into the Windows Phone OS I see windows quickly reaching more than 10 percent of the market world wide and slowly passing iOS to second place within the next few years. People seem to go with what is popular without ever considering other options. I see what people where doing with the iPhone doing now with the Samsung Galaxy S Series phones. They go to the phone store and don't even bother looking at other Android Phones such as the HTC or the LG even though there is no fundamental difference between any of them. I hope Logo's jumps on this ASAP and supports the Windows Phone platform because it is emerging quickly.
Diego
I love the look of the Windows Phone and the surface tablet; they both have great things going for them and as much as I love them, I'd not buy either of them thanks to 2 simple little words; "Sony Betamax."
“Microsoft revealed fiscal second-quarter revenues that beat Wall Street expectations, but it its bottom line was hit by higher expenses including the tech titan’s restructuring plan and integration of Nokia, and an IRS audit-adjustment tax expense during the quarter.” “Big jumps in sales of its Surface tablets, cloud computing software and Lumia smartphones drove Microsoft's quarterly revenue above expectations”.
Big jumps in Surface tablets and Lumia smartphones? Does not sound like Sony Betamax to me... at least not yet.
There must be a number of people who have not received the news that Lumia and Surface are dead.
I'll continue to buy them as long as they make them. With the rapid change in technology I'm not afraid to take some risk. Something does not work out? Just buy another a little bit sooner than you might have otherwise.
I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but Bob P. has said it is unlikely they will invest much (if anything) in a platform with less than 10% market share. From a business perspective that makes perfect sense. I did a quick google search and found this data recently reported
http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2014/1/comScore_Reports_November_2013_US_Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share
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It only makes perfect business sense if it be an upstart company with no history. If LOGOS is going to use the logic that this is strictly a economic issue for them then for those of us who have supported Logos from the beginning will also have to consider strongly the economics for us to continue purchasing their product which is pricey enough already. For me there will be no more expenditures for Logos products until this issue is resolved. To suggest that just because the windows phone platform does not have a huge portion of the market is not material now, knowing the pattern of Microsoft in the past of seeing products thru to success. [:)]
The problem, Richard, is that the history of windows phone has been one of complete and abject failure. There is no signs to point to a change in thier positioning either. If Logos chooses to invest in that direction, good for you. My advice? Don't hold your breath. Why not get an Android or iPhone instead?
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While Windows Phone is about 11% share of the market in the enterprise, it's about 3% of the consumer and total market, and shrinking.
But what may be a bigger sign, is who is spending money - 83% of online mobile purchases this Christmas season came from iOS devices. That's huge.
Business enterprise don't buy Logos, consumers do. And Logos wants customers who will spend money.
And the story of Microsoft being successful till the end no matter what is now myth. Microsoft Office market share in the consumer space has dropped from 95% to 20% since 2004. They are just not a player in the consumer space any more. Logos is NOT an enterprise product.
There will be people that are upset by the strategy; some customers will leave, but many more will arrive due to Android and iOS support that is better than everyone else. Some feature that 25% of the Android/iOS market buys is a better investment than an investment in Windows Phone. I can't think anyone rationally would make a different decision.
Because Android and IPhone are not compatible with the most used software which is windows based. I had an Android and it is not nearly the phone that the Nokia 928 is. If you want a toy get an IPhone or IPad.