March Madness is too easy to cheat :((((

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574590#Comment_574590

March Madness web is to easy to hack and some people seems to me take full advantage of it. As Paul mentioned yesterday:

Waltke was comfortably ahead of Wiersbe up until I checked a few hours ago. I don't want to start a firestorm, but I'm 100% certain that the voting process isn't 100% secure.

This has happened before in a previous tournament. There was an astronomical jump closer to the deadline...'Technically' I don't think the rules state you can only vote once. I could be wrong. Although the spirit of it is not to have someone vote 500 times.

However, it's a bummer to see Waltke get pipped by Wiersbe...

I tried to see how would the voting would work under " New incognito Window", to my shock, its possible to place votes as much as someone wants. This makes whole the game nonsense because many people could or have cheated already... Logos please restrict it to users only.

PS: If only logged in users would be able to vote, this would stop all dishonesty. Anyway only registered users are able to buy something. Why not to restrict the web in order to protect the votes

The user idea is a good one. However, I think that if Logos wants to draw business and interest from non-users to casual users then they'll probably just keep it an 'open' competition.

Cheers,

ChelseaFC

Matthew C Jones

March Madness web is to easy to hack

Logos should take into consideration who the voters are and make it more difficult to cheat. (tongue-in-cheek)

I bet your guys are losing the vote, right? Mine are. I am afraid the March Madness Sale has become a personality based popularity contest.

DMB

Hmmm ... now who would actually 'need' to cheat. I know I usually select books on whether the author is cute or not (since they're all guys). Good personality? Maybe.

With these [U] concerns being voiced, why not take a look at my suggestion for revamping the March sale here. A few thumb-ups would help the cause.

[Y][Y][Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574598#Comment_574598

Hmmm ... now who would actually 'need' to cheat. I know I usually select books on whether the author is cute or not (since they're all guys). Good personality? Maybe.

LOL. Denise thanks for the best laugh that I've had all day!!

tom

March Madness web is to easy to hack and some people seems to me take full advantage of it. As Paul mentioned yesterday:

Waltke was comfortably ahead of Wiersbe up until I checked a few hours ago. I don't want to start a firestorm, but I'm 100% certain that the voting process isn't 100% secure.

I tried to see how would the voting would work under " New incognito Window", to my shock, its possible to place votes as much as someone wants. This makes the whole game nonsense because many people could or have cheated already... Logos please restrict it to users only.

PS: If only logged in users would be able to vote, this would stop all dishonesty. Anyway only registered users are able to buy something. Why not to restrict the web in order to protect the votes

This topic gets brought up every year.

Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574635#Comment_574635

We really appreciate all the interest and ideas around how to run a better March Madness promotion. Please know we’re looking at all of it and making our choices very carefully.

While the suggestion of only allowing logged in users to vote is a good one, we elected to not pass user information beyond the walls of www.logos.com. We are considering building it entirely on www.logos.com for next year which would allow us to do this.

In the past, we only allowed one vote per IP address, but this limited the number of voters significantly. It wouldn't allow two users from a single household to vote.

We’re still looking for the perfect solution, so keep the suggestions coming.

In the meantime, we’re leaving this in your hands.

Perhaps we could shift the conversation from “cheating” to “campaigning”. . . Let’s not be voting until our fingers are sore. Let’s get our friends, families, and communities engaged and voting too.

Let’s use those share buttons to get the votes you want!

Good luck to everyone!

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574744#Comment_574744

Perhaps we could shift the conversation from “cheating” to “campaigning”

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574744#Comment_574744

We really appreciate all the interest and ideas around how to run a better March Madness promotion. Please know we’re looking at all of it and making our choices very carefully.

While the suggestion of only allowing logged in users to vote is a good one, we elected to not pass user information beyond the walls of www.logos.com. We are considering building it entirely on www.logos.com for next year which would allow us to do this.

I'm glad to hear that Logos is listening to suggestions! Thanks.

Cheers,

ChelseaFC

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574755#Comment_574755

You can make it pretty easy to get a Logos account for those who don't have one (with no need to make a purchase) and then require membership to vote. Or you can have people log in via Facebook and have one vote per Facebook account. Facebook will give you their email address, so you can verify that someone is not voting once via their Logos account and once via their Facebook account. And if people don't want to sign up via Facebook they can still vote just through their Logos account.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574757#Comment_574757

I would hope that people would have enough integrity not to vote twice. We are all suppose to be followers of Christ.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574765#Comment_574765

I would hope that people would have enough integrity not to vote twice. We are all suppose to be followers of Christ.

-Dan

Are you serious??

if we voted twice, we're not the followers of Christ?

great

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574769#Comment_574769

Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. Is what Jesus tells us.

It is implied by the contest one should vote once, if you do otherwise you are not abiding by the rules.

But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. Is what St. Paul tells us.

Do what you see to be right, but it seems a slippery slop. People of God for me should try to adhere to their oaths, not steal be it a dollar or a million dollars, if your word is not good in a simple contest with a more than less meaningless result, how can anyone entrust you with anything.

-Dan

Paul Strickert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574776#Comment_574776

I could be wrong, but I think he's baiting you, Dan.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574779#Comment_574779

I bet in an hour a computer smart kid, and a borrowed script could have made Jimmy Swaggart win this year

Not that I want to see Swaggart win...

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574780#Comment_574780

Thank you Glenn Airoldi. It is really not nice to see one user with a hundred clicks to control thousands of votes.

David P. Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574780#Comment_574780

I bet in an hour a computer smart kid, and a borrowed script could have made Jimmy Swaggart win this year

Thanks for that laugh. Most hilarious thing I've read all day!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574779#Comment_574779

I could be wrong, but I think he's baiting you, Dan.

I sincerely hope so... but was just wanting to make sure an ends justifying the means, or this really doesn't matter attitude was not what he was going for.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574779#Comment_574779

I could be wrong, but I think he's baiting you, Dan.

This man got it. [Y]

anywho, since Dan took it seriously.. I want Dan to show me where under MarchMadness' AMERICAN LEGAL/ BYLAWS/ Terms & Agreements page that it said we MUST only vote ONCE.

maybe I didn't look hard enough

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574788#Comment_574788

mike, We're not required by law to vote only once, but the nature of the contest is to see which author most of the people in the Logos community want to see advance. Logos probably lost a lot of sales because Bruce Waltke and others did not make it as far as they should have. Any of us could have logged out so we could keep voting and rigged the ballot. While that's not illegal, it is unethical. Someone suggested that someone could write a computer script to rig the ballot in an absurd way. I could write one in about half an hour's time, but who would benefit? Just me. I'd get what I want, but the majority would lose, and Logos would lose. That is not the approach of someone who loves their neighbor as themselves. Let's all just vote once, and may the best author win.

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575942#Comment_575942

At least now I know the real reason Carson wins every year. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574788#Comment_574788

anywho, since Dan took it seriously.. I want Dan to show me where under MarchMadness' AMERICAN LEGAL/ BYLAWS/ Terms & Agreements page that it said we MUST only vote ONCE.

There is no civil law against adultery but I still think it is not the Godly thing to do.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575942#Comment_575942

mike, We're not required by law to vote only once, but the nature of the contest is to see which author most of the people in the Logos community want to see advance. Logos probably lost a lot of sales because Bruce Waltke and others did not make it as far as they should have. Any of us could have logged out so we could keep voting and rigged the ballot. While that's not illegal, it is unethical. Someone suggested that someone could write a computer script to rig the ballot in an absurd way. I could write one in about half an hour's time, but who would benefit? Just me. I'd get what I want, but the majority would lose, and Logos would lose. That is not the approach of someone who loves their neighbor as themselves. Let's all just vote once, and may the best author win.

I would also voted for Waltke in case you're wondering. He has better resources (recent academic), at least for me.

ok, then Logos should've made everyone who vote to log in to avoid this thing Dan Francis called "not followers of Christ" generalization. The fact that Logos allowed this, Logos also want people outside this forum to vote and by allowing people to vote more than once it creates more buzz & conversation starters regarding MarchMadness thus generating more sales.

that's the primary intention as a business model, to generate sales. let's not forget Logos' focus.

If MarchMadness is something "a bit serious", I would've voted once not twice, but this is a game Logos created to make people like you and I spend more money.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575971#Comment_575971

Dan Francis called "not followers of Christ" generalization.

I was not trying to offend anyone. Nor even call people unChristian, we all are sinners saved by grace, but I do not think it is in the spirit of the MarchMadness to vote more than once, it seems to me to be deceptive. And I cannot see how this deceptive practice is going to glorify God. And from an outsider looking in may well lead them to confirm their worst beliefs of Christians.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575980#Comment_575980

Dan Francis called "not followers of Christ" generalization.

I was not trying to offend anyone. Nor even call people unChristian,

-Dan

Well you just did dan. If people outside this forum voted twice, specially if they're not a Christian, you just literally called them Devil's followers.How would you feel if they know you called them Devil's followers after they voted twice? I'm sure you'll be very proud!

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575983#Comment_575983

Well you just did dan. If people outside this forum voted twice, specially if they're not a Christian, you just literally called them Devil's followers.How would you feel if they know you called them Devil's followers after they voted twice? I'm sure you'll be very proud!

Mike, I think you are reading too much into Dan's posting. I simply do not see Dan saying this at all.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576005#Comment_576005

You know, we are conditioned to believe that voting more than once is wrong...except for American Idol, and every other talent show on television...oh, and most Logos giveaways, where we have many entries allotted to us. Other examples exist, too, where more than one vote is doled out in the interest of encouraging participation. It seems to me that Logos has taken this latter approach where March Madness is concerned. Perhaps not, but they have deliberately chosen not to keep customers from voting twice by implementing available limitations, precisely because they want to encourage participation. I think it is an error to equate this "game" with voting in the way people do when electing public officials. Admittedly, March Madness is a hybrid situation. But for that reason, it seems to me more like American Idol than most other scenarios. Absent a clear statement from Logos that voting twice is wrong, which they probably won't come forward with precisely because THEY WANT TO INCREASE PARTICIPATION, it seems a bit like overkill to tar people with negative judgments.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576014#Comment_576014

It doesn't matter what computer I come to the march madness page from, it won't let me vote if I've already voted, because my office computer, my laptop, and my wife's laptop are all automatically logged in as me. That tells me something: Logos only wants me to vote once. Yes, it's easy to cheat the system: just log out. But if Logos wanted us to vote more than once to "increase participation" they'd let me do it even if I was logged in. Someone from Logos posted above that they used to only allow one vote for IP address and they discovered that didn't work (you would have people who are genuinely different users using the same IP address). It's obvious what the expectations are of the voters.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576025#Comment_576025

It doesn't matter what computer I come to the march madness page from, it won't let me vote if I've already voted, because my office computer, my laptop, and my wife's laptop are all automatically logged in as me. That tells me something: Logos only wants me to vote once. Yes, it's easy to cheat the system: just log out. But if Logos wanted us to vote more than once to "increase participation" they'd let me do it even if I was logged in. Someone from Logos posted above that they used to only allow one vote for IP address and they discovered that didn't work (you would have people who are genuinely different users using the same IP address). It's obvious what the expectations are of the voters.

Just my two pence. I'm logged into my laptop and my nexus and it does allow me to vote twice if I want too.
ChelseaFC

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576038#Comment_576038

It doesn't matter what computer I come to the march madness page from, it won't let me vote if I've already voted, because my office computer, my laptop, and my wife's laptop are all automatically logged in as me. That tells me something: Logos only wants me to vote once. Yes, it's easy to cheat the system: just log out. But if Logos wanted us to vote more than once to "increase participation" they'd let me do it even if I was logged in. Someone from Logos posted above that they used to only allow one vote for IP address and they discovered that didn't work (you would have people who are genuinely different users using the same IP address). It's obvious what the expectations are of the voters.

Just my two pence. I'm logged into my laptop and my nexus and it does allow me to vote twice if I want too. ChelseaFC

I have access to a large number of different computers, and I apparently have the option to vote on each one. I voted twice on the first contest, but after this brouhaha got started, I only voted once this second go-round. I could vote numerous times if I wanted, though. Truth is, I'm note much of a voter. I only voted the second time because I wanted to see what the current status was. I'm absolutely certain that some individual(s) have automated the revote process to some extent. I don't know if coding was used, but I watched a number of votes getting cast in one particular head-to-head in the first round. Each time I refreshed the screen a number of votes were cast and in the space of about 5 minutes the contest went from one person ahead by about 100 votes to the other person ahead by 100 votes. In the end, though, it didn't matter. The tide switched back to the other author before it was over.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576051#Comment_576051

I'm not familiar with the voting process.

Is there a CAPTCHA to frustrate scripted entries?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576057#Comment_576057

No.

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574590#Comment_574590

I am afraid the March Madness Sale has become a personality based popularity contest.

I'm afraid that you are right.

Every blessing

Alan

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576057#Comment_576057

I'm not familiar with the voting process.

Is there a CAPTCHA to frustrate scripted entries?

No.

A small suggestion: implement CAPTCHA to stop bot voting.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576038#Comment_576038

Just my two pence. I'm logged into my laptop and my nexus and it does allow me to vote twice if I want too. ChelseaFC

That's because you're not logged in as you to the Logos site, so it doesn't know it's the same person. Log in, and it will even show you the status of each election without you voting a second time.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576083#Comment_576083

Just my two pence. I'm logged into my laptop and my nexus and it does allow me to vote twice if I want too. ChelseaFC

That's because you're not logged in as you to the Logos site, so it doesn't know it's the same person. Log in, and it will even show you the status of each election without you voting a second time.

Hmmm. I am logged in to the Logos site on the Nexus as well. Maybe when I go to the voting selection it doesn't recognize me as logged in but my settings haven't changed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576051#Comment_576051

I have access to a large number of different computers, and I apparently have the option to vote on each one. I voted twice on the first contest, but after this brouhaha got started, I only voted once this second go-round. I could vote numerous times if I wanted, though. Truth is, I'm note much of a voter. I only voted the second time because I wanted to see what the current status was. I'm absolutely certain that some individual(s) have automated the revote process to some extent. I don't know if coding was used, but I watched a number of votes getting cast in one particular head-to-head in the first round. Each time I refreshed the screen a number of votes were cast and in the space of about 5 minutes the contest went from one person ahead by about 100 votes to the other person ahead by 100 votes. In the end, though, it didn't matter. The tide switched back to the other author before it was over.

That sounds very blatant...Which bracket was that?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576085#Comment_576085

Carson-Blomberg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576083#Comment_576083

Just my two pence. I'm logged into my laptop and my nexus and it does allow me to vote twice if I want too. ChelseaFC

That's because you're not logged in as you to the Logos site, so it doesn't know it's the same person. Log in, and it will even show you the status of each election without you voting a second time.

I can say with certainty that even though I am logged into my account, if I am on a different computer I have an opportunity to vote again should I choose to.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576116#Comment_576116

vote early, vote often!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576115#Comment_576115

Carson-Blomberg

It would of been nice to have Blomberg win this one. Then again, I'll already picked up Carson's stuff from the past two years.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575983#Comment_575983

Dan Francis called "not followers of Christ" generalization.

I was not trying to offend anyone. Nor even call people unChristian,

-Dan

Well you just did dan. If people outside this forum voted twice, specially if they're not a Christian, you just literally called them Devil's followers.How would you feel if they know you called them Devil's followers after they voted twice? I'm sure you'll be very proud!

I also think you are taking this too far. You made quite a jump there. Could you point out where he "literally" called anyone "Devil's followers?"

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576200#Comment_576200

You see. This is exactly why early Christians were supposed to draw lots. They get all mixed up on voting. Just think what would have happened when selecting elders. Personality contests!

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576222#Comment_576222

early Christians were supposed to draw lots

draw lots... of what?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576253#Comment_576253

Might be the most unusual sale ever... ever scholar is assigned a domino... Lets start drawing.... lol

-Dan

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/575983#Comment_575983

If people outside this forum voted twice, specially if they're not a Christian, you just literally called them Devil's followers.How would you feel if they know you called them Devil's followers after they voted twice?

This is getting a little silly. Pragmatically speaking, any who are not followers of Christ are followers of the Devil. I don't mind hurting their feelings if confrontation with their lost state results in their repentance. And fwiw, people who are not Logos users have no business interfering with the March Madness Sale by voting.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576294#Comment_576294

I think the dominoes idea is excellent, relative to toughski's query. And as an added bonus, there's certainly precedence in the archaeological record (dots on shards that probably didn't line up very good but would at least indicate the selection by the gods if one's been to southern Nevada).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/574788#Comment_574788

We can approximate how many votes are second votes by comparing the different contests. Carson is solidly beating Mounce and the total # of votes between them is just under 4,000 votes. Most of the others are sitting at or just above 4,000 votes. But Wright-Moo, who have been neck-and-neck (I had trouble deciding which to vote for!), have 4,400 votes. I would bet that the 400-vote difference represents votes by people who knew that it was close and came back and voted a second time. It's impossible to know how many of those 400 were cast for Wright and how many were cast for Moo. Regardless, it appears that on a close competition about 10% of the votes are second votes. I don't know what this information tells us, but it satisfies (somewhat) my own curiosity. Of course, if Logos tracks login information and IP addresses (they should!), they could do a more thorough analysis. I still suggest that in the future a login be required for March Madness and make creating an account simple. We'll see what Logos does about this next year. I'm still bummed about Waltke, Marshall, Blomberg, Schreiner, Keener, and Dunn. All the best exegetes lost in the first round. I've bought two resources, whereas I listed 20 that I would have bought had the discount been greater. There was nothing from the 2nd round losers that caught my eye. I'll probably pick up a few things from Carson, Wright, and/or Moo, but overall the losses by the solid exegetes was a loss for Logos this year, I think. It's not certain that any of this was due to cheating (Waltke was questionable), but I hope for a better seeding and better process next year.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/576771#Comment_576771

...but overall the losses by the solid exegetes was a loss for Logos this year, I think.

Certainly as far as I am concerned, it was. And you left out Brueggemann. I was surprised Kaiser made it to round 2. I'm still not buying, though.