Windows Phone
Wake up, Windows Phone is here to stay. There is absolutely no logic in thinking otherwise. Professionals are going to switch to the windows phone simply because it links effortlessly with their primary business OS and software provider. Please stop dragging your feet LOGOS you are falling behind. Logos 5 is already available on the Windows 8 platform how much more work can there be to making it Windows Phone compatible?
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Windows Phone is here to stay.
That's what the BlackBerry users said. I'm glad we didn't invest in developing for that platform -- we almost did (and it had more users than Windows Phone at that time). :-)
I would love for Windows Phone to be a strong contender. I was on Windows Phone when it was Windows CE; I used my Windows-based phone for a year after the iPhone was released, before giving up. Since then Microsoft has completely redone the platform (breaking all previous Windows-phone apps) at least twice.
My Windows-loving credentials are impeccable. I attended the Windows 1.0 developer's conference. (Yes, 1.0.) I was a software development intern on the Windows 3.0 development team. I had the Windows for Pen Computing SDK 20 years before the iPad was introduced. I bought the first Surface. (I used it this morning. Then left it at home, taking my iPad. Because Ballmer was wrong to say Surface could make it without a cellular data connection.)
We aren't dragging our feet at Logos. We're facing the reality that Microsoft dropped the ball / dragged its feet / couldn't put together a coherent strategy. Apple won this one, and Android is getting the scraps. (People who won't pay Apple's price / hate Apple / want to be different / etc.)
There's nothing left for Windows Phone.
But Microsoft has pulled out a win from behind before. If they do it again, we'll be there to support it.
Windows Phone may be here to stay, but it's not a sure bet. To say 'there is no logic in thinking otherwise' is inaccurate. The logic is Windows CE, Pocket PC 2000, Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 7.5, and Windows Phone 8. And Zune. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile for a history of falling market share and confusing / changing / incompatible strategies.
-- Bob
I moved to windows phone from iPhone a year ago and I am glad that I did, it is great and much better than apple.
Saying that I may well move to android in a year as windows phone is not getting the app traction that I need, but if I do move I will miss windows phone as it is such a great platform.
I selfishly wish that Logos would develop for windows phone but if Logos was my company I would not do so, it is hard enough developing for two mobile platforms, let alone three.
In the meantime, we still need something to accompany us for looking up stuff or to take notes during sermons.
Two possibilities I've found so far in the Windows Phone app store are:
Bible by Lucas: Simple and elegant design. Still a work in progress though.
Pocket Bible by Laridian: More comprehensive with resources to purchase. But then feels like doubling up on my Logos investment. But then it's no good to me if it isn't with me.
I suppose the other way is to buy an 8" Windows tablet for the job but then that would be a little ostentatious. ;-)
Thanks for this mini review on these apps. I plan to give them a try. I'm always being asked for recommendations. I also purchased a Surface Pro 2 tablet and it is awesome. Since it's a 'crossover' computer it works well in both Windows 8 modes. Windows 7 mode & Windows Phone 8/Tablet mode. It's fantastic! You might want to give one a look.
Where is Blackberry now? Bankrupt I believe. If all you say is true why did you even bother with an app for Surface? It appears to me your mind is made up about Windows Phone based on looking at just the failures rather than weighing them against the success of Microsoft. That's a really balanced business approach. I can live without Logos on my phone but rest assured it will not continue receiving the recommendations I have given in the past.
Interesting there was an article on Windows 9 that came out yesterday, by Paul Thurrott, one of the big Windows gurus. Interesting in the article, he paints it as a pretty important upgrade because of the current state of Windows 8 - which reinforces Bob's assessment that it's not worth investment now, if they can turn it around to the point the market accepts it and it builds market share, great. You can read the article at this link, or here is the Windows 8 part:
"But Threshold (next release of Windows) is more important than any specific updates. Windows 8 is tanking harder than Microsoft is comfortable discussing in public, and the latest release, Windows 8.1, which is a substantial and free upgrade with major improvements over the original release, is in use on less than 25 million PCs at the moment. That's a disaster, and Threshold needs to strike a better balance between meeting the needs of over a billion traditional PC users while enticing users to adopt this new Windows on new types of personal computing devices. In short, it needs to be everything that Windows 8 is not."
You anti Microsoft/Windows people say what you will I am quite happy and satisfied with my Windows Phone and operating system and will keep it because it works for me. If you check other threads on this form you will find I am not alone. I will keep my windows phone and do without Logos on it as I have found other alternatives that provide comparable service for the Windows Phone platform as Logos gets left in the dust. Laridian PocketBible meets the need. Others who feel slighted by Logos for their Windows Phone need to check it out. For me that is what I will be using on my phone from here on out as well as the YouVerison app from LifeChurch. God bless!
Aloha and good morning all
Yes it is still morning here in paradise.
I am going to have to add my voice and vote for a Windows Phone version of Logos.
I currently use an iPhone 4. But would dearly like to be off it.
I moved to iOS when my old WinMo 6.1 (HTC Touch Pro 2) phone died. The only supported platform then for my mobile Bible app (Laridian Pocket Bible) was iOS.. So I went to Apple (albeit kicking and screaming).
So Logos - please give us a Windows Phone version/thank you.
Since market share is a significant factor in Logos decision regarding a windows phone app. I would be interested in hearing what percentage of market share you think an OS should have before Logos creates an app for it?
I hear you. If it's uneconomic for Logos to do it, perhaps Logos might see its way clear to opening up an API to allow third party developers to do one.Windows Phone is here to stay.We aren't dragging our feet at Logos. We're facing the reality that Microsoft dropped the ball / dragged its feet / couldn't put together a coherent strategy. Apple won this one, and Android is getting the scraps. (People who won't pay Apple's price / hate Apple / want to be different / etc.)
There's nothing left for Windows Phone.
But Microsoft has pulled out a win from behind before. If they do it again, we'll be there to support it.
Windows Phone may be here to stay, but it's not a sure bet. To say 'there is no logic in thinking otherwise' is inaccurate. The logic is Windows CE, Pocket PC 2000, Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 7.5, and Windows Phone 8. And Zune. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile for a history of falling market share and confusing / changing / incompatible strategies.
-- Bob
Wow, sorry but I disagree with Bob. And that's said news to Windows 8 users because he is the President of Logos. I do believe Windows Phone is here to stay! At least as long as the iPhone will be around. As usual Microsoft is late getting up to speed but they are getting there. Try searching "Failed Apple Products" and you find no shortage of items on that list. And if anyone is trending down other than Blackberry, it's Apple. But no one is saying "let's keep an eye on them" because they to, are here to stay (at least for this generation & perhaps the next). So this is a new era and it seems to us that Microsoft is pretty much on the 'cutting edge' with Windows 8. We know people don't like change (companies don't like it either) and every time there is a major change people complain but they eventually get on board and after a short time they wonder how they got along without the very thing they complained about. This is a new day in the computer world. Why is it ok to offer iOS & OSX and not a Win 8 & Win App? Do you really think Windows is going to regress? I don't think so. Especially when Windows users out number Apple users and windows 8 & App users are cross platform users that over the natural course of Windows time & "history" shows that neither Windows nor its users regress but people adapt. Things these days are more stable then the days of windows CE, palm pilots, Apple Newton, other 'transitional/venture' technologies. Today cell phones are here to stay and like Microsoft and computers, Windows Phones have now joined the major players. Doubling their market share from about 2 to 4%. Not much you say? Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others. One more fun fact is that Microsoft sold over 200 million Windows 8 licenses with confirmed registrations since its release. Compare that to the 250 million who switched to windows 7 in the same amount of time following its release. Anyone with windows 8 will be able to utilize the windows 8 app store. Like me & most of our congregation who seem to have upgraded and many others plan to in the future. So, I say there's more to this story. This is definitely something to watch...
Interested in this? There's more here... http://community.logos.com/forums/p/67764/582350.aspx#582350
Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others.
Yes... but:
When I was in seminary a few years ago, about 60% of the seminarians were using Mac laptops. Of those who were using windows laptops, most were over 40. Furthermore: Mac users in general spend more on electronics and software than do windows users. There were good, economic reasons for Logos to invest in the platform. Windows phone <might> catch on, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Additionally, iOS isn't just a phone platform, its a tablet platform too. Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point.
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Yes, that may be true but Logos is not marketing merely to seminarians but to all Bible students. Investing in the Mac platform was a good idea. Mac users spend more because all Apple products cost much more. But that's not even the issue here. The question is if Windows 8 is a worthwhile platform to invest in. It is not an "utter failure" as you say. The fact that more than 200 million licenses are in use demonstrates that. Especially in comparison to the 250 million they had in use for Windows 7. Though Windows 8 is 50 million less than 7 doesn't mean that it is an utter failure does it? According to my research Windows 7 was considered a huge success for Microsoft. So, 8 isn't that far off especially since people in general resist change and this is major change for Microsoft that actually puts them way ahead of the curve with the W8 concept. This is revolutionary because Windows has now become a 'one operating system' for all devices. The fact is this is more then just for Windows Phones it's for all windows tablets as well. Just like iOS it works on all W8 tablets & Phones. Going forward all Windows enabled devices including Xbox will be utilizing the same base programming platform. The funny thing is IMHO Logos is thinking today the same way turn of the century Microsoft was thinking. In the computer world a day is as a decade and a decade as a day. What I mean is that things are always changing for the better. Microsoft today is not the same company as it was in 2006, In those days there was little commonality among cell phones (even iPhone had barely arrived) and tablets were virtually a non issue when things have so drastically changed in the past couple of years. Windows 8 again IMHO is now the 'operating system standard' to match and taken the whole world by surprise because they changed the rules. It's a visionary approach to device management. Ahh if only Apple had of come up with this first. It really is pure genius. Today an app created for the Windows store can essentially be used on the Windows 8 Phone, W8 Tablets, and YES W8 Laptops, Desktops, & XBOX. If that's not a worthwhile investment then I just don't know what is. Because Apple MAC's are merely %10 (about 23% of total computing if you include the iPad) of the total computer sales or that 40% of seminarians use them mean that we can't embrace the future of Windows & probably the future of Apple as well all because Microsoft was first? Keep in mind that 10 years ago there was no iPhone, smart phone, or tablet as they are today. 10 years from now we don't even know what new devices are coming but based on what Microsoft is saying today Windows will be adaptable. I think that Nokia will be around for at the least another decade and Windows will definitely be there. In the software world you have to strike while the iron is hot and though in the past the iron wasn't hot, but now it is and is getting hotter. What it comes down to is that Logos has to do what they think is best and like most companies profits overall are the main factor which is fine. But as a Logos fan and a W8.1 user I like sooo many others would like to see Logos be a visionary, step up and embrace this new windows revolution that goes far beyond a phone to a place where "no man has gone before". If Logos misses this "Window" (no pun intended) of opportunity the customers will be the main ones who loose. We're not greedy, we just want to have what iPad has in the W8 Store. If Logos had guys working on an app just let them finish what they started. How about the Vyrso app guys? Lol, clearly they're not done yet. The bottom line is I really hope the nay Sayers can get past the 'Phone' aspect and see Windows 8 for what it really is... A total OS Revolution that operates all things Windows.
Ah yes, but perhaps the main reason Mac users spend so much is because Apple product are very expensive.
Ps3">Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others.Yes... but:
When I was in seminary a few years ago, about 60% of the seminarians were using Mac laptops. Of those who were using windows laptops, most were over 40. Furthermore: Mac users in general spend more on electronics and software than do windows users. There were good, economic reasons for Logos to invest in the platform. Windows phone <might> catch on, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Additionally, iOS isn't just a phone platform, its a tablet platform too. Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point.
I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one. Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so. I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Now, now. I didn't mean to get you in a huff. [:)] Let me put it this way: Sony came out with Betamax, which was far superior to JVC's VHS. Despite the superiority of the platform, it was an utter failure as a consumer device, We can bicker over win 8 and surface all day... But that was never my point. Up to this point, MSFT does not have a "successful" product. It doesn't matter how "good" the product may be. See these links:I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one. Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so. I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.
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Now, now. I didn't mean to get you in a huff.I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one. Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so. I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.
Let me put it this way: Sony came out with Betamax, which was far superior to JVC's VHS. Despite the superiority of the platform, it was an utter failure as a consumer device, We can bicker over win 8 and surface all day... But that was never my point. Up to this point, MSFT does not have a "successful" product. It doesn't matter how "good" the product may be. See these links:
Yes, the fact is that if Sony had of sold 200 million Betamax machines everyone would have had one pretty much like windows. We banter back and forth about Microsoft but it's still Windows we're talking about. Eventually Vista/7/8 will be a part of history like XP. Also the future of technology has grown to include tablets & cell phones which 10 years ago didn't exist. So people are making choices bc not everyone can afford to by a tablet & a desktop/laptop. Also, those who don't like to change don't have to right now unless they have XP and want to. But like it or not W8 is the transition into the OS future that has set a new standard. IMHO the W8 pro type tablets all speak to that fact. Just ask someone who uses one. And keep in mind that by trying to maintain Betamax as a private standard, Sony yielded an early marketing lead to JVC, who licensed the VHS standard to all comers. Consequently, VHS recorders were available from more manufacturers for a significantly cheaper price than Betamax recorders. This why they failed and why Microsoft hasn't. Even the articles you refer to do not call W8 an "utter failure" and by the time you read through the article the tone changes from the questionable reader attracting headline to a more acceptable acknowledging of the facts. By the way, Sony Betamax machines had a market share of 12% and were made up until as late as 2002 when Sony switch production to increase laser products. I do believe at last count the iPhone had 12-13% and Apple still makes those.
Sure... But the point of this thread isn't about "full windows 8" OS or devices. It's about RT and phones. Speaking to windows 8 directly, it has been a failure, which MSFT looked to fix in 8.1 and beyond.
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About percentages... They are funny things. Looking at profit and total revenue, things look much different for apple. [:)]
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I am with you Richard I have a Windows Phone 8 phone soon to be upgraded to Windows Phone 8.1 and this is the future. I remember about 5 years ago telling people that android was going to become the number one phone OS on the market and people kept buying iPhones. At that time software companies were hesitant to make Android versions of their applications and look Android is now 70-some percent of the market world wide. Now with all the updates and features Microsoft is bringing into the Windows Phone OS I see windows quickly reaching more than 10 percent of the market world wide and slowly passing iOS to second place within the next few years. People seem to go with what is popular without ever considering other options. I see what people where doing with the iPhone doing now with the Samsung Galaxy S Series phones. They go to the phone store and don't even bother looking at other Android Phones such as the HTC or the LG even though there is no fundamental difference between any of them. I hope Logo's jumps on this ASAP and supports the Windows Phone platform because it is emerging quickly.
Diego
I love the look of the Windows Phone and the surface tablet; they both have great things going for them and as much as I love them, I'd not buy either of them thanks to 2 simple little words; "Sony Betamax."
“Microsoft revealed fiscal second-quarter revenues that beat Wall Street expectations, but it its bottom line was hit by higher expenses including the tech titan’s restructuring plan and integration of Nokia, and an IRS audit-adjustment tax expense during the quarter.” “Big jumps in sales of its Surface tablets, cloud computing software and Lumia smartphones drove Microsoft's quarterly revenue above expectations”.
Big jumps in Surface tablets and Lumia smartphones? Does not sound like Sony Betamax to me... at least not yet.
There must be a number of people who have not received the news that Lumia and Surface are dead.
I'll continue to buy them as long as they make them. With the rapid change in technology I'm not afraid to take some risk. Something does not work out? Just buy another a little bit sooner than you might have otherwise.
I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but Bob P. has said it is unlikely they will invest much (if anything) in a platform with less than 10% market share. From a business perspective that makes perfect sense. I did a quick google search and found this data recently reported
http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2014/1/comScore_Reports_November_2013_US_Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share
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It only makes perfect business sense if it be an upstart company with no history. If LOGOS is going to use the logic that this is strictly a economic issue for them then for those of us who have supported Logos from the beginning will also have to consider strongly the economics for us to continue purchasing their product which is pricey enough already. For me there will be no more expenditures for Logos products until this issue is resolved. To suggest that just because the windows phone platform does not have a huge portion of the market is not material now, knowing the pattern of Microsoft in the past of seeing products thru to success. [:)]
The problem, Richard, is that the history of windows phone has been one of complete and abject failure. There is no signs to point to a change in thier positioning either. If Logos chooses to invest in that direction, good for you. My advice? Don't hold your breath. Why not get an Android or iPhone instead?
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While Windows Phone is about 11% share of the market in the enterprise, it's about 3% of the consumer and total market, and shrinking.
But what may be a bigger sign, is who is spending money - 83% of online mobile purchases this Christmas season came from iOS devices. That's huge.
Business enterprise don't buy Logos, consumers do. And Logos wants customers who will spend money.
And the story of Microsoft being successful till the end no matter what is now myth. Microsoft Office market share in the consumer space has dropped from 95% to 20% since 2004. They are just not a player in the consumer space any more. Logos is NOT an enterprise product.
There will be people that are upset by the strategy; some customers will leave, but many more will arrive due to Android and iOS support that is better than everyone else. Some feature that 25% of the Android/iOS market buys is a better investment than an investment in Windows Phone. I can't think anyone rationally would make a different decision.
Because Android and IPhone are not compatible with the most used software which is windows based. I had an Android and it is not nearly the phone that the Nokia 928 is. If you want a toy get an IPhone or IPad.