LOUW NIDA VS BIBLE SENSE LEXICON

Yes you still need Louw and Nida for this very fact. Say you are looking up a word in an English dictionary like Merriam Webster. What you expect to find is not just a bunch of one word glosses, but actual definitions. And you would expect to find those definitions in one place- under the word you looked up- so you can see how that word is used in the context of its different meanings. For example, if I am looking up the word "trunk", I would expect to find more then one definition. Trunk can mean a storage compartment in a car, something a man wears when he swims, an appendage on an elephant, etc. If it only had gloss words like car, swimming, and elephants, that would not be helpful at all. To see how a word is translated in the bible is not the same as seeing the range of meanings or definition of a word. The Bible sense sort of moves towards meaning by giving a brief definition of a word, but you would have to look at all the places that word is used in order to find its range of meanings. Few people have that kind of time or discipline. Louw and Nida does have meanings for words but they unfortunately are not all listed together in the same place. One has to look up the word in the lexicon, double click on the word which will bring up a range of meanings, and then you have to click on each word to see its definition in its context. The better solution is the BDAG, if you can afford it which also gives meanings for words but puts them all in one place, like you would expect in a Merriam Webster English dictionary. Just remember that comparing bible translations on a verse, or one or two word glosses  is not the same as finding the range of meanings of a word.

I'm sure someone with more language knowledge than I will come along and refine this, or correct what I have said. And I would welcome that because I would like to learn more about this myself. But for now, in my humble opinion, keep using your Louw and Nida with your Bible Sense Lexicon, if that is your only options. But the best choice is BDAG 3rd edition.

Hi,

I use LN in a different way. It's a very handy resource to create either visual filters (like the one above) or searches. I the above example after reading a passage many times I turn on this visual filter to check if I have may have missed anything in the text. Of course you can do a search on the LN ranges to get the same result but this way is much faster.

Tim

To, Tim

Is there any way that you could share how you made the visual filter for the Louw-Nida. I am a bit perplexed. 

Thank you, and God Bless.

David

To, Tim

Is there any way that you could share how you made the visual filter for the Louw-Nida. I am a bit perplexed. 

Thank you, and God Bless.

David

Yes, please. And is there any other resources, except Louw Nida that can be used in this way?

Hi,

Not sure what other resources but if you find one please let me know...I love the power that logos gives us for this sort of stuff. You may want to try John @ www.learnlogos.com I picked up quite a few of his webinars that have been very helpful with this sort of stuff. Actually he taught me how to search using LN ranges, all I did was convert that into a visual filter.

Cheers

Tim

Nicely done Tim. You might want to share it on the faithlife visual filters group.

Hi Everyone,

Tim suggested I offer some training and tips. So here is a free training event to learn all the tips, tricks and secrets for using Louw-Nida for Bible Study and Sermon Preparation. 

Live, Free Event with Q & A | Monday, August 25, 8-9 PM (ET) http://learnlogos.enterthemeeting.com/m/EMJ6XJ8B

NOTE: It will be recorded, but you will have to sign-up to be notified when the recording is available

Blessings,

John Fallahee

LearnLogos.com

Hi all,

Here is a faithlife group with the highlight palette and visual filter.

Download them both and you're good to go.

https://faithlife.com/louw-nida-visual-filter/documents

Blessings

Tim

Hi Tim

Many thanks for sharing this.

Good work - appreciated

Graham

Hi all,

Here is a faithlife group with the highlight palette and visual filter.

Download them both and you're good to go.

https://faithlife.com/louw-nida-visual-filter/documents

Blessings

Tim

Thanks, you made my day! This is a really valueable filter!

Thanks Tim.

But when I go to https://faithlife.com/louw-nida-visual-filter/documents there is nothing listed.

Hi Anthony

But when I go to https://faithlife.com/louw-nida-visual-filter/documents there is nothing listed.

Have you pressed the "Join" button to join the group?

Graham

Hi Anthony

But when I go to https://faithlife.com/louw-nida-visual-filter/documents there is nothing listed.

Have you pressed the "Join" button to join the group?

Graham

Thanks Graham.... I had inadvertently chosen "Follow" rather than "Join"  

It appears that this visual filter works fine even if you don't have Louw-Nida. If you're using a Bible with Louw-Nida numbers, you're good to go.

Yes you still need Louw and Nida for this very fact. Say you are looking up a word in an English dictionary like Merriam Webster. What you expect to find is not just a bunch of one word glosses, but actual definitions. And you would expect to find those definitions in one place- under the word you looked up- so you can see how that word is used in the context of its different meanings...

I can't speak to visual filters (which look very nice for Louw-Nida), but just to speak to finding all of the Bible Sense Lexicon definitions for a lemma (and also some of the phrases associated with it) in one place, it is possible to do this. If you are in the BSL tool, you can click on a lemma, which will open up the Bible Word Study guide:

Then, just look for the senses section:

Thanks Jeremy! That does make it a lot more useful. Learn something new everyday[Y]

Hi Tim

Many thanks for sharing this.

Good work - appreciated

Graham

+[Y] Tim, good stuff.

I use LN in a different way. It's a very handy resource to create either visual filters (like the one above) or searches. I the above example after reading a passage many times I turn on this visual filter to check if I have may have missed anything in the text. Of course you can do a search on the LN ranges to get the same result but this way is much faster.

+1 [Y] Thanks plus shared "Louw-Nida 89 Relations" Highlighting Palette & Visual Filter

=> https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents

Keep Smiling [:)]

I use LN in a different way. It's a very handy resource to create either visual filters (like the one above) or searches. I the above example after reading a passage many times I turn on this visual filter to check if I have may have missed anything in the text. Of course you can do a search on the LN ranges to get the same result but this way is much faster.

+1 Thanks plus shared "Louw-Nida 89 Relations" Highlighting Palette & Visual Filter

=> https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents

Keep Smiling

Thanks heaps...I modified my one to include some of the things I missed :-)

To' Tim

Thanks heaps for your time in sharing the work that you have done. I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share.

It will help in my future stud if God's Magnificent Word.

God Bless You!!

Dave

How do you see the doc in the Faithlife group? I just joined.

They are in the Document folder & are both called Louw-Nida 89 Relations in the Logos Visual Filters group. You need the Visual Filter & the Highlighting Palette.

when I click on them I get this---https://documents.logos.com/documents/e6f58ff8105b49789ea793d4fd9925a5

What do I do with this?

FWIW, when I joined and tried to download the document, nothing appeared to happen. But when I opened Logos, it had installed itself.

Hi John,

1 - Join the group "Logos Visual Filters" https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/about

2 - Open the documents tab https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents

3 - Download the following two files: Louw-Nida 89 Relations (visual filter) AND Louw-Nida 89 Relations (highlight palette)

You do this by clicking on the blue "action" button to the right of the file and selecting copy.

Once you have done both you are good to go.

The above files replace my original ones as "Keep Smiling For Jesus :-)" upgraded them with better ones.

Blessings Tim 

Thanks for this key piece of info. Now I get it. It puts it into LBS.

Thanks,

John

I have added two more visual filters with their corresponding highlighting palettes that feature Louw-Nida Domains to the Visual Filters Faithlife group. One includes Discourse Markers and Comparisons, the other Time and Location references. Here is how you can use them:

If you do Inducting Bible Study:

• Turning on the Relations filter helps you find conclusions and contrast as well as other text connectors that show how the authors thought or argument progresses and develops.
• Turning on the Time and Location filter helps you find expressions of time and geographical locations
• Turning on the Discourse Markers and Comparison filter helps you find different kinds of comparisons in the text as well as other features that the author wanted us to especially notice

If you do Discourse Analysis:

• The Relations give us an idea of the propositional relations, how the discourse is developed
• Time and Location usually mark progress of the discourse. Change of time or location signal a new thought unit, a new paragraph
• Discourse Markers and Comparison all have to do with things the author has put into focus

Once you have downloaded the filters you can modify them to suit your mark-up stile. For example if you do inductive bible study and you have already a highlighting style for time, location etc. you can simple select your highlighting style in the filter instead of mine.

thank you

Thanks to all for sharing these tools - they are excellent and much appreciated!

Thanks for the great filters! 
Anyone have tools like this for Old Testament studies?

Thanks for the great filters! 
Anyone have tools like this for Old Testament studies?

[Y]

Thanks for the great filters! 
Anyone have tools like this for Old Testament studies?

 [Y]

John @ learnlogos.com conducted a great webinar on LN the other night and I have asked him if he has any ideas for an OT version. Will keep you posted.

Tim

[quote user="Tim Bray"]

Hi,

I use LN in a different way. It's a very handy resource to create either visual filters (like the one above) or searches. I the above example after reading a passage many times I turn on this visual filter to check if I have may have missed anything in the text. Of course you can do a search on the LN ranges to get the same result but this way is much faster.

Tim

[/quote]

This is great Tim, I have just performed it as you have done it ,but I could not show it up automatic on my Bible text ,could you please tell what to do to show it up. )I don't even see it on the Visual filters icon.)

Hi Tes,

A couple of things to check:

1. Are you in the NT?
2. Are you in the correct bible (i.e. the one that the VF was created for. My VF was for all bibles)
3. Check the VF icon (the three interlinking circles) scroll down the the bottom of the list somewhere and it should be there.

Hope this helps

Tim

Woops...it all else fails try following this link

https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents

Download both of the items below and that should fix the problem.

Thanks for the great filters! 
Anyone have tools like this for Old Testament studies?

Unfortunately no! Not at this point. But there are two future possibilities. One is that Logos adds functional connectors to the Bible Sense Lexicon and the other is if Logos annotates the OT using the Semantic Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew - which has not yet been published. See the following forum entry for more information: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/17037.aspx

The linked forum entry above shows that LN and BSL are different in some regard. What we have done with these filters is hard to do with the BSL. Well right now most of the devices we look up in the filters are not tagged yet in the BSL. But even the few that are show some difficulties. For example a few time references are tagged since they are adverbs. So if I choose the word "today" and open it in the BSL it shows it is a type of 'day' and a type of 'time unit'. So I could make a search for 'time unit' (well I can't because the BSL cannot be searched at this point anyway, but let's say I could). However, when I look up the word "tomorrow" it is not linked to a 'domain' if you like. It only says it pertains to 'next day', which would again be listed under 'time unit'. But that would mean that whenever the word tomorrow is used it would not be highlighted using the search criteria 'time unit'.

There is one recourse that has limited semantic domain tagging, which is the Andersen-Forbes Phrase Marker Analysis. I understand that these domains can be searched using syntax search. But syntax search can not be used to produce a visual filter.

I hope Logos notices the request from many Logos Users to include something like Louw-Nida for the OT. With these filters we have just proven the value of it!

I use Bible Sense Lexicon which I love so much. Do I still need Louw Nida? Any difference between the two?

Uche

What you really need is BDAG.

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000.

I sincerely appreciate the discussions here. I now have both BSL and LN and My Logos 5 and study approach have been positively influenced by the postings on LOUW NIDA filters in this forum. I asked little and received much. God bless you richly. 

Please what is BDAG and how is it used?

I use Bible Sense Lexicon which I love so much. Do I still need Louw Nida? Any difference between the two?

Uche

What you really need is BDAG.

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000.

Please what is BDAG and how is it used?

Please what is BDAG and how is it used?

BDAG is THE go-to lexicon for the study of koine Greek texts such as the NT or early church fathers (also helpful with the LXX).  See my previous posting to which you replied where I gave the bibliographic information.  While LN can be helpful and is recommended, if you're serious you want BDAG.  With LN what you get is a gloss for a word IN A PARTICULAR CONTEXT.  With BDAG you get the range of glosses, definitions, for a word in its many uses.  LN interprets the data for you and gives you a result while BDAG makes you do a little work for yourself in determining how a word is used (though it gives abundant help in this determination).  LN is a little better than reading a translation as opposed to reading the original text.  Where LN is really helpful is in exploring the semantic domains in order to determine what other word might have been used in the context and what the author's choice says about his intention.

EDIT:  I forgot to mention how BDAG is used.  You click on a word you wish to study or type it into the find box of the lexicon which will bring up the entry for that word.  You then read through the entry noting the context of the various meanings to find one that is close to what you have in your text.  Sometimes the words surrounding your word will give you a clue.  Sometimes it's the structure of the sentence that is telling.  You will learn a lot more in this way and may find that you don't necessarily agree with the standard interpretation (but don't count too much on that since many very knowledgeable scholars have studied these texts for many years).

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for coming to the Louw-Nida free, live webinar last week. Here is the promised notification for the release of the video.

The 1 Hour and 32 minute recording is now available for download and purchase. You will be pleasantly surprised on what you can do with Logos, Louw-Nida, and Visual Filters. There is also a free 20 minute sneak preview at the link below as well.

http://www.LearnLogos.com/louwnida 

Blessings,

John Fallahee, CEO
LearnLogos.com

EDIT:  I forgot to mention how BDAG is used.  You click on a word you wish to study or type it into the find box of the lexicon which will bring up the entry for that word.  You then read through the entry noting the context of the various meanings to find one that is close to what you have in your text.  Sometimes the words surrounding your word will give you a clue.  Sometimes it's the structure of the sentence that is telling.  You will learn a lot more in this way and may find that you don't necessarily agree with the standard interpretation (but don't count too much on that since many very knowledgeable scholars have studied these texts for many years).

Glossed over for proficient BDAG use is memorization of many abbreviations along with paying attention to ; delimiter.

Personally dreaming of a digitally formatted BDAG => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659 that can be searched using words.  BDAG can be searched for abbreviation:

Noted BDAG abbreviation meaning can depend on context: e.g. "art." can refer to grammatical usage or a publication.  BDAG abundantly used abbreviations, which substantially reduced printing costs.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Glossed over for proficient BDAG use is memorization of many abbreviations along with paying attention to ; delimiter.

Personally dreaming of a digitally formatted BDAG => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659 that can be searched using words.  BDAG can be searched for abbreviation:

Memorization of abbreviations is unnecessary.  We DO IN FACT have a digitally formatted BDAG.  All that is necessary is to mouse-over the abbreviations to discover the full form.  Also, the authors cited are linked to the list in which they appear so that it is possible to use <ctrl-f> to move to the precise entry.

We DO IN FACT have a digitally formatted BDAG.  All that is necessary is to mouse-over the abbreviations to discover the full form.

BDAG tagging for mouse over to show abbreviation or cited source is incomplete (add yellow highlighting to illustrate):

While can use <ctrl+f> to find PKatz in many entries, have not found PKatz in one of the eight BDAG abbreviation lists.  "Peripl. Eryth." has abbreviation list entry "Peripl(us Maris) Eryth(raei) ," with parenthesis to show what the periods leave out.

Keep Smiling [:)]

While can use <ctrl+f> to find PKatz in many entries, have not found PKatz in one of the eight BDAG abbreviation lists.  "Peripl. Eryth." has abbreviation list entry "Peripl(us Maris) Eryth(raei) ," with parenthesis to show what the periods leave out.

While PKatz is not found in one of the abbreviation lists, "PKatz, Philo’s Bible ’50, 152f" does indicate the work cited which should be sufficient.  It certainly is more than is found elsewhere.  It is easily located in WorldCat.org.

Philo's Bible; the aberrant text of Bible quotations in some Philonic writings and its place in the textual history of the Greek Bible.     

 Book View all formats and languages »                

Personally dreaming of a digitally formatted BDAG => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659 that can be searched using words.

Alternative search dream is fuzzy inteliigence that could find abbreviated forms when searching for words:

see => s.

with => w.

lemma in BDAG entry that becomes first letter with period.

Keep Smiling [:)]

I have added two more visual filters with their corresponding highlighting palettes that feature Louw-Nida Domains to the Visual Filters Faithlife group. One includes Discourse Markers and Comparisons, the other Time and Location references. Here is how you can use them:

  

If you do Inducting Bible Study:

• Turning on the Relations filter helps you find conclusions and contrast as well as other text connectors that show how the authors thought or argument progresses and develops.
• Turning on the Time and Location filter helps you find expressions of time and geographical locations
• Turning on the Discourse Markers and Comparison filter helps you find different kinds of comparisons in the text as well as other features that the author wanted us to especially notice

If you do Discourse Analysis:

• The Relations give us an idea of the propositional relations, how the discourse is developed
• Time and Location usually mark progress of the discourse. Change of time or location signal a new thought unit, a new paragraph
• Discourse Markers and Comparison all have to do with things the author has put into focus

Once you have downloaded the filters you can modify them to suit your mark-up stile. For example if you do inductive bible study and you have already a highlighting style for time, location etc. you can simple select your highlighting style in the filter instead of mine.

Thanks, downloaded highlighting palettes and filters, renamed them (changed "and" to &), modified them (removed ALL CAPS, changed to Mixed Case,  reduced size to 60 %, plus consolidated Duration of Time with Reference ranges 67.118-135/136-141 into 67.118-141), followed by publishing them to Logos Visual Filters:

Keep Smiling [:)]

I'd like to look at this file but it opens to a 404 page

I must admit that all of this STUFF about marking is SO confusing... I'm having a real hard time following all this talk. Most people assume that people know how to use Logos really well and are seminary trained. I have had Logos since version 2 and I'm pretty familiar and comfortable using it in my own way but I'm still having trouble when people say go to this link (that doesn't show up) and do thus and so and I can't figure it all out.