Logos Now
Comments
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John Goodman said:
I totally don't understand this. So far I always thought that I was paying for content not apps. I've been really keen to see more of the logos features available online - call it a website or a web app I'm not sure why it is free to download and use an iPad app or the desktop app but $8.99 a month to get the same online.
That's generally still the case. There have been a few exceptions:
- The first version of the Mac engine was $59.95. The second version was free.
- The iOS apps intially required a Logos 4 base package in order to access your library there. We lifted that restriction a year or two later.
- We're currently using Community Pricing to fund development of a Windows Universal app. Once we release it, it'll be free.
- We're charging for early access to new features with Logos Now.
We're not sure if we'll keep the Logos web app locked to subscribers forever, but for now we need to in order to fund it and accelerate development.
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James Taylor said:Phil Gons said:
there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.
YES!
That will be great!Just to be clear (for others reading this thread, because some context was lost in quoting), this is not a current feature of Logos 6.2 or Logos Now, but is something we plan to implement and would like to deliver in the future.
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James Taylor said:Phil Gons said:
there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.
YES!
That will be great!Just to be clear (for others reading this thread, because some context was lost in quoting), this is not a current feature of Logos 6.2 or Logos Now, but is something we plan to implement and would like to deliver in the future.
I edited the post that quoted me and added a little more context.
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For $8.99/month that's a lot of money for small contents I'm getting.
Too expensive for offers that's so small that we have already. Not very entertaining I would say.
For Logos' MVPs and believers.. yes, they'll buy everything blindly, because they hang out here everyday. But for NORMAL people.. NO.
We already have regular Logos program, when the heck do we use Logos Now? I guess when we don't have our normal computer. But to justify $8.99 isn't enough for the content they're offering.
$3.99 .. maybe. But not $8.99.
Lucky Logos don't have a competition, soon, just like streaming music industry, everyone will price their product accordingly.
Right now, Logos is gouging the price because there no competition.. (with less contents).
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(I smell so many Logos' cheerleaders), For regular peeps, just be careful with what you read here as a regular joe person, don't get carried away.
*sorry for my negativity.
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SHotchkiss said:
Why isn't the Concordance a part of the Logos package I have already paid thousands for?
We typically hold back brand new features for the next major version. In a world without Logos Now, Concordance would sit and wait until Logos 7. Most of what we typically release in the .x releases are updates, improvements, optimizations, bug fixes, etc. (This was different with Logos 4 and Logos 5 where we were still delivering Libronix functionality that we'd promised to bring back. We've fulfilled that promise, so even before Now we weren't planning to add new features to the 6.x releases.)
SHotchkiss said:Why would Old Testament Propositional Outlines only be available with the online version? Could they not have been made to work with the client version? Enticements or inducements to spend more money?
I addressed that earlier in the thread. (And just for clarification, Logos Now isn't an "online version." I provide some clarification on that in an earlier post.)
SHotchkiss said:I really do not get it. Do I still need al my pre-pub orders like Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition or will they all be on Now? How about community price deals?
Logos Now is intentionally not a library of books. For now, you shouldn't expect to see us adding books to it. Our perception of current customers is that they're passionate about owning their books. Our hope is that they may be able to find room for subscribing to the content and tools that power the core functionality of the software.
SHotchkiss said:I just paid 100 or for video training to teach me what is new in Logos 6. Ooops. So I got to do that again if Now is a whole new stronger library. And those printed books. Nothing in the index about this.
We plan to offer free training videos and documentation on Now features. You shouldn't need paid training to benefit from them. More on training in an earlier post.
I think you're misunderstanding the "stronger library" statement on the Now landing page, which I admit is potentially confusing. The point they're trying to make there is that Logos Now makes your existing library stronger by supplementing it with new tools and content. I'll see if we can make that point a little more clearly.
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alabama24 said:
This is really more of a subscription... I tend to buck against "rentals," but I love Amazon Prime and Netflix!
I think it would have been a nicer spin if they had called it a membership instead of rental...
Become a member of the exclusive Logos Now family today and get advance access to new features as they are being developed. Get exclusive use of new tools and datasets that others won't see for months or year to come, until the next official release of Logos Bible Software. Join us today, add your feedback, and become a member of the exclusive team that shapes the next version of Logos. And for an extra $1.99 a month get on the cutting edge with access to nightly builds! It's all yours if you act right now! Hurry before this limited time membership expires! Live the future of Logos NOW!!!
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SHotchkiss said:
If the propositional outlines of the Old Testament are included in my Logos 6 download version..
It is exclusive to Logos Now and will be included in your desktop download only if you subscribe.
SHotchkiss said:Why isn't the Concordance a pat of the Logos package I have already paid thousands for? Why would Old Testament Propositional Outlines only be available with the online version? Could they not have been made to work with the client version?
I'll confirm that they both work only with the client/desktop version. Concordance is a feature that you may not otherwise have seen until Logos 7 is delivered in 2 -3 years. Logos Now is about getting these new features Now!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you Bruce, Mark, Phil, and others, for helping to clarify some of the questions I've had. I think I'm in now. I think the only small issue I have remaining is:
Phil Gons said:Randy W. Sims said:What's the difference between Logos Now & Verbum Now? Will they diverge?
Very little now, expect for access to app.verbum.com instead of app.logos.com. They will diverge more in the future.
Will there be a package that covers both options? An all access pass for a bit more, $11.99 or $12.99 that includes access to Logos/Verbum/Noet NOW?
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Randy W. Sims said:
Will there be a package that covers both options? An all access pass for a bit more, $11.99 or $12.99 that includes access to Logos/Verbum/Noet NOW?
We've already given some thought to this, particularly for bilingual users who may want English and German, for example. But the same applies to Logos and Verbum (and Noet). We don't have a solution yet, but we'll definitely keep it in mind as the desire for multiple subscriptions because more likely. Right now, there's nothing to gain by subscribing to both.
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Randy W. Sims said:
I think it would have been a nicer spin if they had called it a membership instead of rental...
Become a member of the exclusive Logos Now family today and get advance access to new features as they are being developed. Get exclusive use of new tools and datasets that others won't see for months or year to come, until the next official release of Logos Bible Software. Join us today, add your feedback, and become a member of the exclusive team that shapes the next version of Logos. And for an extra $1.99 a month get on the cutting edge with access to nightly builds! It's all yours if you act right now! Hurry before this limited time membership expires! Live the future of Logos NOW!!!
We are describing it as a membership; we've just not made that the central message. But it'll become more important over time.
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mike said:
For $8.99/month that's a lot of money for small contents I'm getting.
Too expensive for offers that's so small that we have already. Not very entertaining I would say.
For Logos' MVPs and believers.. yes, they'll buy everything blindly, because they hang out here everyday. But for NORMAL people.. NO.
We already have regular Logos program, when the heck do we use Logos Now? I guess when we don't have our normal computer. But to justify $8.99 isn't enough for the content they're offering.
$3.99 .. maybe. But not $8.99.
Lucky Logos don't have a competition, soon, just like streaming music industry, everyone will price their product accordingly.
Right now, Logos is gouging the price because there no competition.. (with less contents).
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(I smell so many Logos' cheerleaders), just be careful with what you read here as a regular joe person.
If you're not compelled yet, that's fine. Give us time. We have a lot more planned. (See Bob's comments earlier.)
There's room for different opinions on this. Others like the value, even seemingly "normal" people.
James Taylor said:For $8.99 a month? Count me in! Thank you Faithlife, this looks very good. Can't wait to take my first test ride on these new features. (indexing now... #Can'tWaitToGetAnSSD) and with the free trial month, this is a NO BRAINER!
Sean said:$9 a month for new cool features in Logos doesn't seem much at all, and I'm speaking as a poor missionary.
Nathan Parker said:Actually Logos Now is quite low cost compared to what I was going to tell him I was interested in paying. :-)
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Also a launch day without any video explanation/video promo?
What's up with that?
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mike said:
For Logos' MVPs and believers.. yes, they'll buy everything blindly, because they hang out here everyday. But for NORMAL people.. NO.
There is no justification for being insulting. A number of MVP's are retirees on limited income who watch carefully what they purchase. There is no causal relationship between their personal purchases and their assisting in the forums ... although occasionally a question brings up an interesting resource. If you prefer not to receive help from those willing and able to learn the system, just note it in the first line of your posts. I'm sure we'll be cooperative. [:P]
PS. Besides being on the forum today I have run some errands, helped a grandchild with college plans, read from Uncle Dave's Cow And Other Whole Animals My Freezer has Known (required reading if your grew up on a cattle ranch ... and have not lived on one for 50 years so your information may be a bit dated), read from Jewish Rhetorics: History, Theory, Practice to clarify some questions of exegetical methods, contacted a friend in Virginia regarding a hike to see wild flowers in August, and communicated with my son regarding my surprise a particular nephew doesn't enjoy recreational math. Sounds like NORMAL people to me.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Phil Gons said:
Right now, there's nothing to gain by subscribing to both.
There is when you are answering questions for people who may be on either of the products and you want to have screenshots that match the OP's.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:mike said:
For Logos' MVPs and believers.. yes, they'll buy everything blindly, because they hang out here everyday. But for NORMAL people.. NO.
There is no justification for being insulting.
What should we call those who support LOGOS through thick or thin? You may be NORMAL, but the rest of the description fits. Perhaps it would have been better to say the AVERAGE LOGOS USER or TYPICAL LOGOS USER rather than NORMAL. But it has been clear over the years that are some who are strong supporters of everything FAITHLIFE (nee LOGOS). The real problem is not what do we call you - but that your interest in LOGOS is different (some would say "way different") than many of us that use LOGOS' tools.
I still have not made up my mind to jump on the LOGOS NOW bandwagon. Why do I need propositional outlines (OT or NT)? That is what good exegesis is for. Why do I need a concordance for Calvin's or Luther's work? Maybe Wesley (if there was much to be found), but even then none of these men deserve the kind of attention I should be giving to the Word of God. I may decide to jump in, but for now I am still a couple of months away from paying off my previous purchases.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Phil Gons said:Sean said:
My question as a systematic theologian is: does it have any features that will benefit me? As it is I don't use 90% of the search & Bible study features I've gotten from L4-6, and I don't particularly feel the need for more. What I do use are the many specific resources related to my field. Does Logos Now have anything to offer in that direction, or will it in the future?
Great question. As a PhD (ABD) in Theology with a love for systematic and historical theology, I'm passionate about seeing Logos become a better tool for theological study, not just for exegetical study. And I'm happy to report that we have some pretty cool things in the works for future releases that'll be right up your alley. In particular, there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.
In this release, the Concordance tool may prove useful for you. You can do some neat analysis of Calvin's Institutes, for example, to see what words he uses most in particular sections. A future version of Concordance will allow you to see everything Calvin cited, sorted by frequency. I see Concordance have broad use for exegetes, theologians, historians, and others.
If you have particular feature ideas, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to reach out to me at phil@faithlife.com.
Thanks for posting this! I look forward to seeing what you roll out in the next few months/years.
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MJ. Smith said:Phil Gons said:
Right now, there's nothing to gain by subscribing to both.
There is when you are answering questions for people who may be on either of the products and you want to have screenshots that match the OP's.
Fair enough. We can probably arrange something for those who regularly assist others here on the forums.
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Floyd Johnson said:
What should we call those who support LOGOS through thick or thin? ...
I still have not made up my mind to jump on the LOGOS NOW bandwagon. Why do I need propositional outlines (OT or NT)? That is what good exegesis is for. Why do I need a concordance for Calvin's or Luther's work? Maybe Wesley (if there was much to be found), but even then none of these men deserve the kind of attention I should be giving to the Word of God. I may decide to jump in, but for now I am still a couple of months away from paying off my previous purchases.
If you've read my posts, I've not encouraged or discouraged anyone from Logos Now - I've taken the position that one can safely do nothing and that I understand why some would welcome it. My personal opinion is if you have to ask "why do I need ..." the chances are that you don't need it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I think I read somewhere there were coupon codes with the subscription: where are they?
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Francis said:
I think I read somewhere there were coupon codes with the subscription: where are they?
The only thing I have seen which might relate to this is the fourth point below
Phil Gons said:What do you get with Logos Now?
- A growing library of data, media, and interactive content.
- Early access to new features and tools.
- Access to the beta of the new Logos web app.
- Special membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.
I don't believe I have seen any codes as yet
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Two ideas Logos might want to consider:
- Discounted year subscription: $89.90 for a year when you pay directly, in stead of the $8.99 a month.
- The promise that the money you've paid in subscription fees can be used as a discount when buying a Logos 7 base package. That would be an incentive to people like me, who at this moment don't see anything worth the $8.99 a month in Logos Now, to subscribe anyway.
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Faithlife did mention plans for a discount for paying annually - but I can't find it at the moment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Faithlife did mention plans for a discount for paying annually - but I can't find it at the moment.
Phil speaks about it at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713750.aspx#713750 at $89.99 per year
But also note his comments at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713884.aspx#713884
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Phil Gons said:
We are describing it as a membership; we've just not made that the central message. But it'll become more important over time.
You know when I think of this as a membership it makes a lot more sense. In the Logos/Faithlife world, "rental" in large part implies resources, which we own a lot of, and are worried about various ramifications of a perceived (true or untrue) move toward rental as the favorite model.
To think of Logos/Verbum as software (currently free) + datasets (some free some not) + resources (not free other than some minor promotions), moving to a membership enhancement for $8.99 that adds
-some extra features
-some extra datasets
-no resources (I think?)
- and that some of the membership "perqs" eventually fold into the traditional non-membership model of software + datasets + resources really makes more sense to me, at least. Membership will have more perqs added over time. One of those perqs may or may not be discounts on Logos 7. Maybe a perq is a version of Logos 7 optimized for 4 and 6 core computers since more users might have those by then, for a wild example. Maybe it adds some enhanced feature that indexing "borrows" data or processing cycles from a server to make your local complete indexing of 10,000 resources happen in 5 minutes. Possibilities are pretty intriguing actually, because these would be features not necessary to properly run Logos/Verbum, but would be nice perqs worth paying for in a membership.
And, in the case of datasets and features you "lose" if you drop your membership, if they are at that point available to everyone else through a free engine (say 3 months after Logos 7), then you don't lose them - you just lose other perqs.
I can see now why, thinking of it as a rental, some of us are wondering why Faithlife won't commit to a "rent to buy" consideration for Logos 7, yet they are saying "don't worry". Thinking of it as a membership, I can now see that there in fact could be BETTER perqs offered through membership once Logos 7 comes out, for the membership club, even though a price discount could also be offered but is not a given. I think of it this way - when 6.3 comes out, I get what I normally would have gotten in 6.3, plus my membership perqs. When 7.0 comes out I get what I normally would get (which implies for me buying a base package upgrade, an optional purchase decision by me), plus my membership perqs, also optional to continue. Faithlife wants to make both purchase decisions compelling ones to say yes to. But they are unique. And the intro of Logos 7 could include brand new perqs of membership to not only sign more people up as Logos 7 begins, but ensure existing membership owners continue.
This makes a lot more sense to me thinking of it as membership not rental. Thanks for that revelation, it did not occur to me.
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Phil Gons said:Rayner said:
It would be very handy to have some kind of preview of the new (beta) app, or for somebody who has started paying for Logos Now to let us all know what features it contains.
Several people have mentioned this. We'll consider posting screenshots and maybe a demo video. We envisioned the free trial serving this purpose, though.
A demo video would be very helpful, thanks. I probably won't sign up the free trial as I'm not very good at remembering to cancel such subscriptions!
Phil Gons said:Right now it's basically Biblia.com with a new user interface that looks pretty similar to the desktop app with a few small tweaks. We've not added much new functionality to it yet. There's another thread about the web app that talks about our tentative plans for adding features.
Ok, my current view is that I shall wait until the new functionality is to the app added prior to further pondering subscription to Logos Now. It doesn't yet offer me enough to make the leap (so I shall just spend an extra $10 or so a month on additional resources for my existing collection
).I'm going to go and read the thread about the web app.
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Floyd Johnson said:
What should we call those who support LOGOS through thick or thin? You may be NORMAL, but the rest of the description fits. Perhaps it would have been better to say the AVERAGE LOGOS USER or TYPICAL LOGOS USER rather than NORMAL. But it has been clear over the years that are some who are strong supporters of everything FAITHLIFE (nee LOGOS). The real problem is not what do we call you - but that your interest in LOGOS is different (some would say "way different") than many of us that use LOGOS' tools.
There is a tendency for everyone to think of themselves as "normal" or "typical." Since I AM experiencing this issue or problem and feel this way, EVERYONE must be experiencing it and feeling the same way too. I think this problem goes back to the Garden of Eden: "you shall be like god." We have a high view of ourselves. It isn't easy to place one's self in another's shoes. How do you think I feel to be bashed for being an MVP?
I know that the MVP's are not a block of lemmings. I do not know a single MVP who has not been critical of Faithlife for at least a decision or two. Or three or four. Or considerably more! I know that many of the concerns expressed in this thread are shared by some of the MVP's, but hopefully (as MJ wrote), we are willing to express our concerns directly to Faithlife (when appropriate) and in a more constructive manner. It is ok to ask questions, and to question decisions at times.
One thing that gets my goat, however, is when people challenge the integrity of the Faithlife staff. I have seen Bob and his team bend over backwards to "do the right thing." They aren't perfect... Duh. They make mistakes. But they work hard to get it right, and I appreciate that.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Bob Pritchett said:Mark said:
Language such as "for the foreseeable future" is not comfort language.
When we released Logos Bible Software 1.0 twenty-three years ago, most people had never heard of the Internet or used email, the Euro currency was still a decade away, and few people had cell-phones. The iPad is only five years old; the iPhone less than eight.
Lord willing, we plan to be here, serving you, twenty-three years from now. So I try not to make 'forever' promises, because I have no idea if downloading software will even be possible, let alone desirable, in twenty-three years. You might be doing your Bible study during your commute in your fully-automated flying car, and it might only support cloud-based access. That's why I say 'foreseeable'. :-)
Best answer ever!
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David Taylor Jr said:Bob Pritchett said:Mark said:
Language such as "for the foreseeable future" is not comfort language.
When we released Logos Bible Software 1.0 twenty-three years ago, most people had never heard of the Internet or used email, the Euro currency was still a decade away, and few people had cell-phones. The iPad is only five years old; the iPhone less than eight.
Lord willing, we plan to be here, serving you, twenty-three years from now. So I try not to make 'forever' promises, because I have no idea if downloading software will even be possible, let alone desirable, in twenty-three years. You might be doing your Bible study during your commute in your fully-automated flying car, and it might only support cloud-based access. That's why I say 'foreseeable'. :-)
Best answer ever!
Remember the fight by telephone companies over who gave the best deal for minutes on your home system? .10 weekends vs .15 weekdays etc. All of that is out the window now with Voip. Skype, Google Talk, apps on mobile phones is cutting further into that line of thinking.
All of the money invested in Pots (Plain Old Telephone System) is almost wasted. Think about how much was invested by Internet Service Providers in dial up modems. Again money gone down the drain, if they did not recoup it by subscription or customer loyalty before Dsl and Cable took over. Not to mention ISDN. A 56k modem was fast in the late 1990's. My Isp has increased my speed from 500kb to 3 Mb to 15 to 20. They finally increased the cost by 2.00. (Slightly less, I did not take note of the difference)
Eleven years ago it took 4 weeks for Cd's to reach me from Bellingham (in the Bahamas) to get books when they were shipped. Now I can read the resource the moment it is released via the web or mobile device.
Remember when you had to pay for search engines to list your site? Or your hotmail account was limited to 25 MB.
My point is nothing is certain in the information age. What Logos is offering via the cloud (too much bandwidth/Hard drives too small) we may be able to hold on our mobile phones, and our children may have a hard time remembering what data limits was all about, and have to research 2G, 3G, 4G, Lte to to know what we are talking about. Nothing is static in the information age.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Mark Smith said:Mark Davis said:
while this response makes the most sense to me financially speaking from everything I've read about Logos Now online so far, my problem is that we're paying about $200-$300 every 2-3 years to get the latest, cool Logos functionality, media, etc.; yet after that 2-3 years we're still going to have to pay the upgrade fee if we want some of that functionality and those resources to become a permanent part of our Logos/Faithlife library.
I hear you and I think it is a very legitimate concern. I am a supporter of having a portion of what I spend on Logos NOW go toward the upgrade cost of the next version. I know Faithlife is thinking about this, but it would be helpful if they would get specific and make a commitment.
Mark Davis said:So maybe Now should be marked more as an incredible new web app. that can do much of what your desktop software can do with access to your entire Logos library instead (with a bonus of all the cool new functionality and resources).
From what Bob said they are a long way from having a web app that is on a par with the desktop app. I think if they had that it would 'sell' very well as a rental tool either along with some rental content or as an adjunct to owned resources.
Well, if this list gets implemented, I will be pretty excited about it and more than willing to pay monthly for it.
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Yes, I do remember those days. How far we have come!Lynden Williams said:Remember the fight by telephone companies over who gave the best deal for minutes on your home system? .10 weekends vs .15 weekdays etc. All of that is out the window now with Voip. Skype, Google Talk, apps on mobile phones is cutting further into that line of thinking.
All of the money invested in Pots (Plain Old Telephone System) is almost wasted. Think about how much was invested by Internet Service Providers in dial up modems. Again money gone down the drain, if they did not recoup it by subscription or customer loyalty before Dsl and Cable took over. Not to mention ISDN. A 56k modem was fast in the late 1990's. My Isp has increased my speed from 500kb to 3 Mb to 15 to 20. They finally increased the cost by 2.00. (Slightly less, I did not take note of the difference)
Eleven years ago it took 4 weeks for Cd's to reach me from Bellingham (in the Bahamas) to get books when they were shipped. Now I can read the resource the moment it is released via the web or mobile device.
Remember when you had to pay for search engines to list your site? Or your hotmail account was limited to 25 MB.
My point is nothing is certain in the information age. What Logos is offering via the cloud (too much bandwidth/Hard drives too small) we may be able to hold on our mobile phones, and our children may have a hard time remembering what data limits was all about, and have to research 2G, 3G, 4G, Lte to to know what we are talking about. Nothing is static in the information age.
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Phil Gons said:
Right now it's basically Biblia.com with a new user interface that looks pretty similar to the desktop app with a few small tweaks. We've not added much new functionality to it yet. There's another thread about the web app that talks about our tentative plans for adding features.
I just want to make sure I have this right:
1 .So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?
2. LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?
These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?
One last question. If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?
If so, what would they see as there is no base resource to access?Thanks
Dorothy
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Bob Pritchett said:
Logos Now is a great deal, and we're going to be continually making it better. But I'm not going to try to argue you into it, and we're certainly not going to force anyone into it. I'm not offended if you choose to sit it out. I'm just a little sad that you'll be missing out on such a great deal. :-)
10 pages so far ... and nobody seems to have coherently justified this 'great deal'
Faithlife keeps talking about new data sets ... but the ones listed are not worth $1 per month (IMHO ... mileage may vary ... but $90 per year ... for how many years?) ... this is certainly not in the realms of this being a 'great deal'. This feels like the Logos marketing machine ... [:#]
The datasets proposed ... I hope that they are better that those in the L6 package ... which are good but incomplete ... I find myself using them less and less as I compare the Faithlife tagging with the results to searching.
There is talk of special members discounts ... but then we are back to Faithlife marketing ... offers that are not ... sales that are not ... this needs to be clearer ... I simply do not trust Faithlife when it comes to offers. (Of course I could still call a sales rep for secret deals ... in these days of digital sales of digital products)
Personally, I have no need for online processing ... a desktop is far more reliable (but many features are still missing from the desktop app before we start more new online ventures) ... compare that to logos servers that are ... well ... [:#]
As I see it, this is smoke and mirrors, or the emperors new clothes ... there is no real substance to the new service ... certainly not $90 p.a. worth
I would like Faithlife to be a little more open ... every two or three years Faithlife have a massive influx of cash when the releases new datasets, and they have lean years in-between. If Faithlife were saying that'll this service will be $90 p.a. up front ... and in 2 years we will give you an additional $180 off whatever base packages are then being offered then it would be clearer. Faithlife gets a steady cashflow ... we are locked into Faithlife for another couple of years. We get a few datasets early, Faithlife get our cash early. Not renting ... closer to hire-purchase ... we do not get our $180 back unless we upgrade ... that is our risk ... but we do not pay an unspecified extra of supporting an unknown event.
2017 15" MBP, iPad Pro
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Dorothy Pollock said:
So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?
No. First, this isn't an android app. Secondly, it is a website, which will IN THE FUTURE be more like the desktop app. Currently, it is similar to biblia.com. Third, I am sure that the web restrictions for the website will be similar to biblia.com. Access to your resources have this availability - DESKTOP APP > MOBILE APP > WEBSITE. That is to say, ALL resources are available on desktop. A smaller subset is on mobile. A smaller yet subset is on website.
Dorothy Pollock said:LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?
Yes... It may be that you gain some of these features as part of a "free engine upgrade" to Logos 7 (whenever that is released).
Dorothy Pollock said:These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?
I have no idea what you are asking. Can you try again?
Dorothy Pollock said:If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?
Anyone can "own desktop," since it is free. I assume you mean "does not own a base package," right? Faithlife will have to answer.
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For what it is worth.....
Being a layperson who forks out all the costs for Logos out of my own pocket I have absolutely no interest with SAAS (Software As A Service) model for Logos. I know that is not what this is, now, but it sure looks like an indication of the future.
I am in IT and deal with software vendors all the time and the SAAS model is great for them because it generates a continuous stream of revenue. They get to keep their hands in your pocket. For a business it can be good and there are ways to handle the expense. But I have no use for it personally. Microsoft has been trying to do the same thing with Office for awhile.
If it ever comes to the point where SAAS (Logos Now) becomes the route in which to experience Logos or even new features from Logos I am afraid they will lose me as a customer which is sad. To be honest, this concern will keep me from adding anything to my library until I see where this is going.
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Dorothy Pollock said:Phil Gons said:
Right now it's basically Biblia.com with a new user interface that looks pretty similar to the desktop app with a few small tweaks. We've not added much new functionality to it yet. There's another thread about the web app that talks about our tentative plans for adding features.
I just want to make sure I have this right:
1 .So if I access via my android or tablet, LOGOS NOW accesses all of my library I use on my desktop as does the current app, but it feels more like the desktop than the current app?
2. LOGOS NOW has some innovative features that I may or may not eventually get in my desktop version via standard updates?
These innovative "features" like the media browser in LOGOS NOW are not accessible in the desktop as this app and the desktop, while they share libraries from our base packages, are totally distinct entities?
One last question. If someone does NOT own LOGOS desktop, can they subscribe to this?
If so, what would they see as there is no base resource to access?Thanks
Dorothy
See this page. https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Sorry. I forgot Biblia.com was different from the LOGOS app I have. I have never used Biblia.com online.
I use the LOGOS app in my phone and android tablet.I was asking if features in the web app, not in our desktop version would open within our desktop version. I believe not as they are distinct entities.
So now we will have the
LOGOS app
Biblia.com
Our desktop downloadable LOGOS6 or whatever versionsYes, desktop is our LOGOS desktop version = the base packages.
Must you own that to use this web based service of LOGOS NOW?
I may have to try the free version to find out what's in it to know.For instance, my sister does not own any LOGOS product.
Can she subscribe to LOGOS NOW?
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Excellent - thank you for the link to:
https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNowFAQ says:
Do I need to own a Logos 6 base package to use Logos Now?Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade, Gold, or higher will provide an optimal experience with Logos Now.
Get Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade
Is that a yes or a no?
Still wondering what the less than optimal experience would be for someone without a base package.0 -
Dorothy Pollock said:
I was asking if features in the web app, not in our desktop version would open within our desktop version.
What is in the desktop will eventually make it to the web app. The datasets listed by Phil are all on the desktop. https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow
Dorothy Pollock said:Yes, desktop is our LOGOS desktop version = the base packages.
Must you own that to use this web based service of LOGOS NOW?You can have the free engine without a base package. You get more bang for the buck with base package purchase. The same applies to bundles.
Dorothy Pollock said:For instance, my sister does not own any LOGOS product.
Can she subscribe to LOGOS NOW?
Is it a standalone or simply an enhancement for current owners.Logos Now is best experienced with a base package. It is an enhancement for Base packages. Try if free and cancel anytime.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Dorothy, if you have a large library and some of the feature crossgrades it will work well. Not everyone purchases a base package.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Stephen Smith said:
I know that is not what this is, now, but it sure looks like an indication of the future.
Yes it does and I think you can tell from Bob's comments that is clearly what Faithlife is thinking about for the future.
To balance that he has said he will maintain the computer-centric version of the software.
I am sure Faithlife knows what its user base is: all people who bought software, loaded it on their computer, etc. They can't abandon those folks without destroying their business. Even Office365 gives you a copy for your computer.
Stephen Smith said:SAAS model is great for them because it generates a continuous stream of revenue
Yep, and I like to be paid every couple of weeks, too. Faithlife needs more than just a big lump of income every few years. I'm surprised they've done so well with the model they have been using. Because I want them to be in business for a long time and want them to continue to develop great software, I hope they can develop some form of 'continuous stream of revenue'.
Stephen Smith said:If it ever comes to the point where SAAS (Logos Now) becomes the route in which to experience Logos or even new features from Logos I am afraid they will lose me as a customer which is sad.
I will wait to see what develops, but like many here have a substantial investment in Logos resources so share a real concern about the future.
Stephen Smith said:this concern will keep me from adding anything to my library until I see where this is going
I am quite certain that owning our own resources will not go away anytime soon, so I am not so concerned about new purchases.
The fact is that every Bible software company would like to have what Faithlife is trying to develop. They can read the tea leaves, too. So a practical question is, where could I turn to invest in Bible study software and resources that has a better future than Faithlife?
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Good points Mark. Faithlife is certainly the top-shelf producer of Bible study software to be sure. For churches, seminaries, pastors, etc it is a cost that I suspect can be more easily absorbed and expensed by the budgets of those entities.
I have and will continue to enjoy Logos as long as I can. Being a "civilian" in all of this I do not have the largest library or investment compared to most people I see posting. But then again my needs are not as deep as most. I upgrade every release and usually only add one or two books/sets a year so I am not the target customer I am sure. I am one of those that most likely should not be trying to play in this area with the expensive toys. I realize that there are cheaper or even free tools to be had out there, but I think the software is awesome. But at some point I may have to just buy the Ford and leave the leasing of the BMW and Mercedes to others :-)
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Martin, the coherant justification is on page 14.
I'd suspect the Bellingham duo are testing the forumic winds. So far they have 3 sheets up, with rent-and-maybe-later-you-can-own. And somehow they haven't thought beyond that .... though the forumic winds have.
Actually I suspect the sailing problem will occur when there's two classes of Logosians ... can't-stop-renters, and can't-buy-it-ers. The latter will likely be a bit noisy.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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As for me, I gave up renting/financing anything over thirty years ago. If my husband and I cannot buy "it" outright, then we don't need it. New resources, I will buy. More features-I don't want, already verging on featuritis with L6. If I were much younger, a subscription might appeal to me. Old school suits me, though.
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Stephen, that is exactly how it comes across to me. Logos will lose me too if it turns into a subscription program like Microsoft and others. But it is where the worlds is heading...
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Lynden Williams said:
Dorothy, if you have a large library and some of the feature crossgrades it will work well. Not everyone purchases a base package.
Thank you to you and everyone who answered my many questions.
So far I do not see anything that would make me participate with the LOGOS NOW but will keep up with its growth and see how it goes.
I recently bought the starter standard and then did a crossgrade for features. For me it was a lot of money to invest and I have invested many hours in tutorials etc to utilize its power. I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.
I was just hoping I had not made a mistake and would be thrown into a buyers remorse. I feel safe now that that is not the case.
I am primarily on my Desktop computer. On the go, a tablet or phone does not offer a good desktop experience in general, so using the current LOGOS app on android is enough to use the ESV and my commentaries if I want to keep up with my bible study plan.
I tend to do most of that at home as I love the full large screen experience my main PC gives me.Dorothy
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Dorothy Pollock said:
I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.
Dorothy, it is great to hear a testimony like this. I often try to get folks to see the value of an investment like Logos Bible software and they look at the price tag and freeze. As you know that investment is one time, but the dividends last a lifetime.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark Smith said:Dorothy Pollock said:
I love this program. It really changed my life with its many resources and got me into a bible study plan that has accelerated my yearly reading plan ahead by many months.
Dorothy, it is great to hear a testimony like this. I often try to get folks to see the value of an investment like Logos Bible software and they look at the price tag and freeze. As you know that investment is one time, but the dividends last a lifetime.
I agree with Dorothy and Mark. The program has been worth the investment for myself and has been invaluable in the work I do.
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Phil Gons said:
Logos is one of my few remaining apps that keeps me locked to a traditional computer.
Phil Gons said:I'm growing increasingly tired of desktop software, the risk of
Yes, Phil. I understand this. I really do. I can identify. But just some thoughts for Faithlife to keep in mind:
Not all places on earth have internet connection. Not all places on earth will allow a logos internet connection. There is something to be said about having Logos in some form in the future as downloadable. This can be similar to Kindle, where we can download what we want to read, and perhaps have a basic application that will allow for basic functions at times when the internet is not a viable option, or when there is an internet glitch or cloud problem.
Up to now, the model has been a downloadable desktop version and basic function on a web based version. It does make sense that the web based version gets developed and that it eventually becomes the dominant version. It should not replace the desktop, but can become the dominant version. The desktop model may drastically change, but does not disappear. I know that for now, and for the foreseeable future, there is no plan to get rid of the desktop version. And many are glad about that. And the push for a web based version is fine.
A web based version does not have to mean renting is the only possibility. Kindle books are purchased. But the Kindle system is web based. They have not seemed to yet figure out that if they had a better system to organize the library, that more would get excited over the possibilities. But they probably dont see that because what they have is working for now. Just wont work when people have 1000 or 2000 books in Kindle. But Logos can have a web based version where books are owned and can be downloaded into a desktop or phone or tablet interface. Perhaps all resources will not be able to fit on a device. But plenty would that would allow for basic functions such as searching offline.
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