A couple of questions based on my observations; I hope are correct.

Observations.

1. This is an 'upgrade” of the Biblia web app, with a lot of functionality yet to come

2. I will have new functionality of datasets and such that are not currently in the desktop version but once you sign up some of these will be installed in your desktop version as long as you subscribe.

3. I still have the current full functionality and resources that I have in the desktop version 6 and updates will continue.

4. There are two subscriptions, Logos and Verbum.

Questions:

1. At the present time I have Verbum as my primary desktop and Logos desktop as a beta tester. In the past, depending on the package promotions I have alternated back and forth between the two systems. I understand that they are currently the same but at some point may diverge. (That has been tossed around since the beginning). Can I assume that I can currently exist with only one subscription? Does the migration of features flow between the two apps; Logos and Verbum or do I end up with only one set of new features, say in the Verbum app if I subscribe via Verbum?

2. What impact does this have if any on the existing mobile apps for IOS or Android?

3. Is there any easy way that would identify the features that were installed in the desktop unique to the Logos Now that would disappear if one canceled their subscription?

There are probably other questions as well. A lot of my observations have been hashed out in the thread so I'll keep quiet.

It seems that all Logos would have to do is promise free crossgrades after, say 24 months of Logos Now, and people would be clamoring to subscribe.  Or maybe offer the next crossgrade on dynamic pricing that honestly accounts for the preceding Logos Now subscription.

I would just like to state on record that I am really disappointed that Logos has went down this road. As some living in the UK, I cannot really accept this model due to currency fluctuations and bank charges in dealing in foreign currency. If Logos continue this that i will have to seriously consider wether I invest anymore money in it. I was at a probationers conference in the CofS recently extolling Logos to my fellow candidates, but i think i would be telling them to go with Concordance now.

Mike Pettit said:

Faithlife also now has a large number of customers with large libraries that costs money to service who are not buying as many books as they once did. They need to generate an income stream from these customers if growth slows down (as it must at some stage).

While this is generally true I find myself still buying resources such as Mobile Ed courses. Faithlife is still getting a lot of my money. But I am comfortable with that fact because I trust Bob Pritchett.

Phil Gons said:

Sean said:

My question as a systematic theologian is: does it have any features that will benefit me? As it is I don't use 90% of the search & Bible study features I've gotten from L4-6, and I don't particularly feel the need for more. What I do use are the many specific resources related to my field. Does Logos Now have anything to offer in that direction, or will it in the future?

Great question. As a PhD (ABD) in Theology with a love for systematic and historical theology, I'm passionate about seeing Logos become a better tool for theological study, not just for exegetical study. And I'm happy to report that we have some pretty cool things in the works for future releases that'll be right up your alley. In particular, there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.

In this release, the Concordance tool may prove useful for you. You can do some neat analysis of Calvin's Institutes, for example, to see what words he uses most in particular sections. A future version of Concordance will allow you to see everything Calvin cited, sorted by frequency. I see Concordance have broad use for exegetes, theologians, historians, and others.

If you have particular feature ideas, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to reach out to me at phil@faithlife.com.

I'd like to see more Theology stuff in Logos as well since I'm planning to major in Theology for my PhD. Preferably I'd like to see tools that can allow people to dig deeper into their Theology books and mine the information, even if they're new to Theology. Basically a "Theology Guide" report.

Phil Gons said:

Logos Now is intentionally not a library of books. For now, you shouldn't expect to see us adding books to it. Our perception of current customers is that they're passionate about owning their books. Our hope is that they may be able to find room for subscribing to the content and tools that power the core functionality of the software.

There is content that would offer incentive in rental/membership format, MobileEd. Due to the high price on our end I visit this content a small percentage of the time than what I would like to. I posit ownership of this content is less desirable than books.

Mark Smith said:

Dorothy Pollock said:

I am very happy where I am and add commentaries as I go.

That's a nice story. I am sure your son feels good about finally buying something for his mother that she might not have bought for herself.

(Did you know that Logos offers a Wish List that you can share with others? )

Thanks. I'm not sure I am to be encouraged in such things ... [:)]

I know and thanks. It was a big gift given from a loving place and I enjoyed receiving it as much as he enjoyed giving it.
It makes using it even more special.

Dorothy

Mark said:

But just some thoughts for Faithlife to keep in mind:

Not all places on earth have internet connection.  Not all places on earth will allow a logos internet connection.  There is something to be said about having Logos in some form in the future as downloadable.

I agree. I would also like to add that I have paid a substantial sum for my library. Having a downloadable version makes me feel secure in knowing that if something were to happen to Faithlife as a company, my personal investment will not be lost. I have access to everything I bought and can continue to use it.

Kent said:

Has that changed since Logos offered this new service? You still own what you've bought.

Correct. It has not changed. I was joining in Mark's thoughts to Faithlife as to why we, the users, like the downloadable version of the product.

Kent said:

Logos Now lets you use what you haven't bought... for a fee.

Today it allows me early access to resources that I would have had to wait until Logos 7 to use. Only time will tell to see which features are made exclusive to Logos Now users only. If I don't see any value in those exclusive features or club benefits, then I will simply cancel the subscription and buy whichever datasets Logos Now had when/if they are made available for individual purchase.

David Taylor Jr said:

James Hudson said:

Lynden Williams said:

Mark Barnes said:

But, generally, you're right — and I would also much prefer that the new datasets were available to purchase.

Old Testament Propositonal Bible Outline 39.95

Greek Grammatical Constructions Dataset 14.95

Commandments of the Law 5.95

Visual Copy Templates 24.95

Author Slide Templates 24.95

Logos Stock Media vol. 24.95

Total cost if purchased seperately: $135.70

Monthly $8.95

If the point of this post is the 'great' cost [$8.95 v $135.70]], then this seems a false argument. With a single payment [in the example quoted for these resources] of $135.70, I would own the 'resources/datasets' etc forever, rather than paying $90 pa [for the rest of my life if I wanted to keep them, - if I didn't pay my $90 after the 3rd year, for example, I loose them all even though I had paid $270 to Logos].

I guess secondly, if Logos goes under, I would also have(own) the 'resources'. Using a rental model, if Logos goes down, I will loose the resources [I guess that Logos does a 'phone home' each month to check that I've subscribed this month - so if there is noone to phone home to, I guess the resources will become disabled!]. Furthermore, with server outages a real possibilty [see this last year], there are real issues with this system.

Thus, Logos Now seems to be not only MORE EXPENSIVE, it is also LESS SECURE!

PS On a separate note, I don't understand why a 6 weekly cycle logically implies ONLY a rental system. I'd pay for updates every 6 weeks under the buy-to-own model!

Every blessing,

James

Remember the 6 week cycle means more updated features so to say you will always be paying 8.95 for the current offering is not exactly the right way to look at it.

True - I was only using that as an example as that was what I thought was being implied by giving the costs.

However, the points still stand

(i) a one-off payment for each new 6-weekly feature will need to be continually paid for life, as a break in payment will remove them from your Logos. In fact the more you rent, the more you stand to lose and the more you will be hooked into monthly payments. Buying to own will always be cheaper in the long run with the additional (and significant) benefit that you get to keep them forever!!

(ii) There appears no reason why the 6 weekly cycle cannot work with those of us who are buyers and not renters. As I said, I'd pay for a 'bought' update every 6 weeks!

Keith Larson said:

Mark Smith said:

William Roth said:

It seems that all Logos would have to do is promise free crossgrades after, say 24 months of Logos Now, and people would be clamoring to subscribe.  Or maybe offer the next crossgrade on dynamic pricing that honestly accounts for the preceding Logos Now subscription.

Welcome, William.

I think you are on the right track, but so far Faithlife has not made any promises. I think it would strengthen the offering considerably for Faithlife to make a specific commitment to some sort of dynamic or discounted pricing on future upgrades. The more folks who ask for this the better in my opinion.

This is definitely the issue that is troubling most of us. I have signed up for the "free month" to kick the tires, but if Logos does not give some credit towards the next base package upgrade, I think $8.99 per month is hard to justify. Perhaps I will be blow away by the "media and data" content that is independent of future base packages or perhaps the coupon offers will be fantastic. I hope Logos understand they have just one month to win us over. It only takes a click of a mouse to cancel.

There is another point to be made on this subject.  Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice."  If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.

Phil Gons said:

What do you get with Logos Now?

1. Special membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.

What does the first release include?

1. Membership benefits (e.g., exclusive offers, special discounts)

Phil, can you elaborate on these please...

As of now, Logos Now is no different than biblia site.

Mark Smith said:

Bill Roth said:

There is another point to be made on this subject.  Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice."  If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.

Not to argue but we will be getting the use of features for our money. So far we don't know if we will ever own them, but I am certainly hopeful Faithlife will allow that at least by the time of the next major upgrade (Logos 7). So in a sense even if we have to pay for them again with Logos 7, we have used them for quite some time before that and have paid for that use. It isn't fully one way or the other. A bit of both, which is why I hope Faithlife will factor that into upgrade pricing in some way.

If Logos makes the promise that the paid subscription fee will fully or partly (50% or more) be usable as credit when upgrading to Logos 7, I will subscribe today without hesitating.

If Logos 7 will be released in 2 years, that would mean $192 in subscription fees. It's a shame paying that amount of money, and having to pay the full upgrade price to be able to keep on using them (owning them). Owning books/features/datasets means a big deal to me. But paying twice for the same feature just te be able to own it, feels wrong.

Maybe a Logos employee would be so kind to give us a bit of clarity on this issue.

Is the subsctiption only for new features or resources as well?

MJ. Smith said:

Tes said:

Is the subsctiption only for new features or resources as well?

Currently it is only for features, datasets and perks ... not resources.

Thanks MJ for the clarification, I am reading this now.I had technical problem with my Internet connecion. for almost 10 days.

"If Logos would only assure us that Logos NOW will have ALL the features and ALL the data sets of all future base packages and we would NEVER have to purchase a base package again just like Office 365 that would be enough. But as it is the system seems like throwing good money after bad."

And this is exactly what I do not want to have happen.  I do not want to lease my logos software.  I want to buy it, own it and be able to use it without the internet.

Good News! I skipped lunch yesterday and used Logos Now to help me write a paper, and by doing so I paid for next months subscription payment. The paper is nearly done and my wallet wont even know the difference.

I am interested also in more details of what the exclusive offers, special discounts, etc. will consist of. I feel that with Logos 6 Gold I already have more capabilities that I need for my personal study and leading a small group but if there were to be good prices on some of the major commentary sets and other products I am looking for then maybe it would be beneficial for me to pay the monthly charge. Can we get more of an idea of what these special offers will be? Thanks.

I've been followingvtgis thread, trying to get my head around what Logos Now is and how commiting to this venture will benefit me in the long term, I understand that this is still in early days and as such details are sketchy, but I echo the comments of others - that knowing that a subscription to LN would go towards the next upgrade would be beneficial.

I wonder if another option for this, which would help some in regard to the feeling that this could be 'dead money' if for some reason you had to stop your subscription, maybe that if you've subscribed for a year that rather than loosing access to LN, your subscription would be suspended, you'd still have access to LN but only to the level at which you subscribed too and this would be for certain length of time such as 6 months...

I'm guessing this wouldn't be easy, but surely is worth considering??

Kevin A. Purcell said:

I want abdigital version of BSM. Not gonna happen is it!

If Faithlife included a digital version of Bible Study Magazine with the Logos Now subscription I bet a lot more people would subscribe.