Pre-Pub Caprice and Disappointment
I haven’t bought many pre-pubs but never really had problems with them when I did. I thought they worked simply enough: FL advertises a book or bundle, customers choose to pre-order, and when they garner enough interest, they produce the book and ship it out. I never read the FAQ and so did not know it could be far more arbitrary than that.
I’m quite disappointed with what happened to the Karl Barth bundle as discussed here (see also similar thread here). This is an excellent deal, and when it was offered in March, quickly went into production/“under contract.” A large and probably complicated set to produce, it didn’t bother me that it took most of the year to get ready. What bothers me is the following timeline; note that dates are approximate as I didn’t record them or take screen shots (I never would have imagined that I would need to):
1. Originally set to ship on 11/5 (?). This deadline crosses and no books. Not a problem; delays happen.
2. Set to ship again on 11/24. Deadline again passes; still not a problem. I can wait, especially if more time is needed to polish off the rough edges (or links).
3. Briefly set to ship on 12/15. This date is soon cancelled, and the bundle slides back into “gathering interest.” This is a problem—who knows how long it will now languish in pre-pub purgatory?
The reason given for this third change is last minute cancellations. This happened to coincide with the changes made to payment plans. Although pre-pubs don’t go on payment plans, I suspect that many cancellations may have been for this reason. IMO, knowing many people’s preferences and priorities, this would be a good candidate for many to cancel if they were reconsidering their purchasing strategies. FL should realize that changes made in one area of sale strategies will affect others, but other customers should not be asked to bear the side effects of those changes.
Of course, things don’t always go as planned, but three changed dates is unacceptable. Since two postponements happened right on the projected ship dates, I must assume that the vast bulk of the work done towards producing these books must be done; wouldn’t it be better, FaithLife, to take the money from the customers who are ready to pay now rather than wait until some unknown future date for 100%? To me these capricious changes show a lack of seriousness with the marketing and execution of the pre-pub program. I expected better and am disappointed that I have not gotten it.
Please note that I am not seeking further explanation and justification of why this happened, which frequently derails threads like this. I am a dissatisfied customer looking for a remedy to my dissatisfaction: kindly take my money and give me my books, within a reasonable and fixed time frame. I really don’t think that’s too much to ask for.
Comments
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Pre-pubs were able to be put on payment plans... BUT ... it was an exception to the rule, rather than the rule it self. If they let you do it once every couple of years it was a lot. It also took co-ordination with your sales person in advance (and likely their manager). I think it probably happened as part of Bob's "customer first" mentality, but that the rule against the practice existed to prevent what you're seeing here with this barth package. However the change in practice probably is the catalyst.
I think another circumstance that needs to be considered is the season its being released in.
Not everyone has the discretionary spending money to pay for Christmas, AND a big bundle.
Finally the deal with pre-pub has always been "when its fully paid for, it ships". IF 1000 people back out, then thats 157$ x 1000 or 157,000$.
Thats a lot to ask FL to eat for this resource.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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The whole thing seems strange to me, though, because if the resources have truly been produced, then it's a sunk cost no matter how many are signed up for Pre-pub. They get cash now by releasing and future cash flows by having the product available.
I know they've used Pre-pub interest to gauge when they'll receive enough cash to produce resources and then prioritized from there (Gathering Interest -> Under Contract -> Ships ##/##/####). Naturally, if a lot of people cancel at the end, then they'll have misjudged and won't bring in enough to have covered production. But the cancellations don't change the fact that Logos has already invested in production. They're missing out on the value of the available cash by releasing to the smaller set of Pre-pub customers. And from there, they have the set then available at retail price--which, if they're pricing at the economically optimal level, should cover the rest of their production shortfall in a reasonable time frame.
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Again: three cancelled ship dates in rapid succession? This is from the same company that refuses to answer questions, even tentatively, about future plans for products because of fear you'll be disappointed if they don't stick to them?
It's unfortunate that no FL staff have responded after nearly a full business day.
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If you need an official response, use an official channel:
Customerservice@faithlife.com
OR you can email Bob directly:
Bob@faithlife.comL2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
Finally the deal with pre-pub has always been "when its fully paid for, it ships". IF 1000 people back out, then thats 157$ x 1000 or 157,000$
Back in March I was able to pre-order this for $95. Checking now logged out, I see it's being offered for $157--being kicked back to pre-pub, new orders don't get the original offer price? $5 a volume was a great price; I doubt that many people who aren't serious Barth fans (and they would have pre-ordered early anyway) are going to be interested--the bar hasn't budged since this got kicked back into "gathering interest." FL really isn't serious about this succeeding.
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Despite this thread and an email to Bob (which he acknowledged and said he would forward), no response has been forthcoming to what I think is a serious lapse in professionalism on the side of FaithLife.
Again, three cancelled ship dates in three weeks' time is unacceptable.
Everyday my email is inundated with pre-pub offers. I understand now that these are not meant seriously and should just be spammed. Also, while I'm retaining this order in the hope (probably vain) that it might ship sometime in the coming years, I have cancelled all my other pre-pub orders and community pricing bids.
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Sean said:
Despite this thread and an email to Bob (which he acknowledged and said he would forward), no response has been forthcoming to what I think is a serious lapse in professionalism on the side of FaithLife.
Again, three cancelled ship dates in three weeks' time is unacceptable.
Everyday my email is inundated with pre-pub offers. I understand now that these are not meant seriously and should just be spammed. Also, while I'm retaining this order in the hope (probably vain) that it might ship sometime in the coming years, I have cancelled all my other pre-pub orders and community pricing bids.
Sean, I'm sorry for this. There was some miscommunication internally on this. We're discussing it tomorrow to get everyone on the same page. As a general rule, we won't delay shipping products that are ready to ship, even if they slip below 100% funded.
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Phil said:Sean said:
Despite this thread and an email to Bob (which he acknowledged and said he would forward), no response has been forthcoming to what I think is a serious lapse in professionalism on the side of FaithLife.
Again, three cancelled ship dates in three weeks' time is unacceptable.
Everyday my email is inundated with pre-pub offers. I understand now that these are not meant seriously and should just be spammed. Also, while I'm retaining this order in the hope (probably vain) that it might ship sometime in the coming years, I have cancelled all my other pre-pub orders and community pricing bids.
Sean, I'm sorry for this. There was some miscommunication internally on this. We're discussing it tomorrow to get everyone on the same page. As a general rule, we won't delay shipping products that are ready to ship, even if they slip below 100% funded.
Thank you, Phil. During the meeting/discussion, please try to work some magic and get Barth's Romans included in the bundle! [:)] We need this resource in Logos!
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Thank you for your response, Phil. I look forward to seeing what solution you can work out.
Brad said:Thank you, Phil. During the meeting/discussion, please try to work some magic and get Barth's Romans included in the bundle!
We need this resource in Logos!Romans would be terrific; I'd definitely pay more than $5 each volume went for in this bundle. But after the bundle goes out.
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To be fair, I'm not a fan of barth, and would probably not spend more than 1-2$ a title, or if they were included in a base package, or some other large bundle that had other things I wanted whose price separately totaled more than the bundle or package that included barth. That is how I came to have the barth that is in my library. I've read some, and may read it all one day. but its on the back burner for the immediate future.Sean said:abondservant said:Finally the deal with pre-pub has always been "when its fully paid for, it ships". IF 1000 people back out, then thats 157$ x 1000 or 157,000$
Back in March I was able to pre-order this for $95. Checking now logged out, I see it's being offered for $157--being kicked back to pre-pub, new orders don't get the original offer price? $5 a volume was a great price; I doubt that many people who aren't serious Barth fans (and they would have pre-ordered early anyway) are going to be interested--the bar hasn't budged since this got kicked back into "gathering interest." FL really isn't serious about this succeeding.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
To be fair, I'm not a fan of barth, and would probably not spend more than 1-2$ a title, or if they were included in a base package, or some other large bundle that had other things I wanted whose price separately totaled more than the bundle or package that included barth. That is how I came to have the barth that is in my library. I've read some, and may read it all one day. but its on the back burner for the immediate future.Sean said:abondservant said:Finally the deal with pre-pub has always been "when its fully paid for, it ships". IF 1000 people back out, then thats 157$ x 1000 or 157,000$
Back in March I was able to pre-order this for $95. Checking now logged out, I see it's being offered for $157--being kicked back to pre-pub, new orders don't get the original offer price? $5 a volume was a great price; I doubt that many people who aren't serious Barth fans (and they would have pre-ordered early anyway) are going to be interested--the bar hasn't budged since this got kicked back into "gathering interest." FL really isn't serious about this succeeding.
Fortunately I bought a boatload of Wipf titles a few years ago when the publisher offered a great discount on their entire catalog to attendees at a conference I went to at Wheaton. I bought almost all of these Wipf titles the and was thereby not tremendously tempted by the recent Logos pre-pub this thread being the subject of.
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And, I see this is now back to shipping on 12/18. Thank you for your attention and effort in fixing this problem.
(I wish it hadn't take so much escalation to get that attention.)
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Sean said:
And, I see this is now back to shipping on 12/18. Thank you for your attention and effort in fixing this problem.
You're welcome.
Sean said:(I wish it hadn't take so much escalation to get that attention.)
It actually didn't. I was alerted to the issue a week or two ago (before your thread), but the soonest we could get everyone together to make sure there was alignment was today. Some were out of the office for ETS/SBL and the Thanksgiving weekend. I'm sorry it took so long.
Feel free to reach out directly to me on these kinds of things (phil@faithlife.com). I have business responsibility for our Bible study products division, and I'd be happy address any concerns you have.
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