Logos A4 UI - Doesn't Match PC Version

I know that this is an alpha release and that the UI is still very much in development so take these comments with a grain of salt. My early impression of the Logos A4 build is that the UI is not as clean or as easy on the eyes as the PC build -which is stunning!

Are there plans to add some additional visual polish to the core UI objects/controls to better match the PC twin? For example the PC versions color palate is softer than the stark flat grey of the mac version. Also, little things like odd drop shadows on every container element (tabs, panels etc...) seem out of place and are not present on the PC version.

Other core differences may be platform specific. For example all options and tools on the mac version are located in the top system application bar. This follows Apple's Human User Interface guidelines so is not technically a bad choice in any way and is arguably correct but it's not as handy as the PC versions UI implementation where the core features are all easily accessible via the main application window itself . Maybe this will be duplicative functionality in the final UI build and the application chrome and UI will be updated to match the PC version?...

My last thought pertains to the gaudy standard mac scrollbar controls. Ug, I've never liked these from a UI perspective. I know modifying them is not as clean a process as working within Microsoft's WPF framework, that said many mac applications are modified to reduce the eye strain of apples default scroll controls. Apple even does this on their own pro apps! My question then is will we see the superior UI design of the PC versions custom scroll controls or a similar variant for the mac? I really like how the scroll bars on the PC version fade out a bit and that they don't dominate the page when not in use. This is very helpful when reading a lot of text. It cleans up the multi panel layouts considerably and reduces eye strain.

Those are just my random nerdy thoughts. On the positive side, I appreciate the strong efforts of the Logos team to make a solid mac product, and I'll be excited to finally have feature parity with the windows version when the mac client is done. Great business move in my opinion even if it caused the Logos team to start from scratch. Your Internal development efforts for the mac platform are a much welcomed change of strategy!

Thanks and God bless

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Donovan R. Palmer

Are there plans to add some additional visual polish to the core UI objects/controls to better match the PC twin? For example the PC versions color palate is softer than the stark flat grey of the mac version. Also, little things like odd drop shadows on every container element (tabs, panels etc...) seem out of place and are not present on the PC version.

I mentioned the same thing on Alpha 2. I know we are a long way from the Gold version of Logos Mac v.4, but I did voice the same concerns.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/42449#Comment_42449

I mentioned the same thing on Alpha 2. I know we are a long way from the Gold version of Logos Mac v.4, but I did voice the same concerns.

Good to know I'm not the only one. I think they will polish the UI, they have the talent do it. Since I was a happy logos 3 user on the PC (and then honestly less than happy on the 1.0+ mac releases) I know that Logos cares about UI. Their PC version of the application has always demonstrated an extremely high competence for designing efficient and polished user interfaces. This new development model is exciting. That and the fact that the mac client is now being built in house on a shared core platform with the PC version shows me that Logos is dedicated to providing the same level of UI polish and refinement for mac users.

Stephen Ashton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/42449#Comment_42449

I know we are a long way from the Gold version of Logos Mac v.4, but I did voice the same concerns.

What worries me is how far we are from the Gold version of Logos 4 for the Mac. Once again I feel like a poor relation ...

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/42526#Comment_42526

What worries me is how far we are from the Gold version of Logos 4 for the Mac. Once again I feel like a poor relation ...

I think it's more of a case of a new relationship as apposed to a poor one. I'm willing to let them deliver on this version. I really have confidence that having the mac dev staff in house will make a world of difference. They will have a learning curve to feel at home developing for the mac, but I suspect that many lessons were learned with the development of the 1.0 mac engine/codebase and that those lessons are being applied with this very forward thinking new version. It really is remarkable.

Now that the development staff is in house they will be working side-by-side with the Windows dev team on new features. Because of this I expect this to be the last major version of Logos we will have to wait longer for than our PC using friends. I suspect that many of these new mac developer were already involved in major feature decisions for the version we are testing now.

Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/42635#Comment_42635

Not wanting to start an argument, but, the last thing I'd like to see is the Mac version looking like a PC clone/port. I prefer Mac software to look like Mac software with all its character and peculiarities. Personally I find the Mac Beta version much more pleasant than the PC version. Just another opinion ;-)

karl

Jordan Tatom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/43301#Comment_43301

Karl,

I agree! It is my opinion that Logos4 should have the same functions and abilities as the Windows version but in a very noticeable Mac way, which is shown in the UI. I do like the fact that I will eventually be able float my windows, because then I can use expose to see what I have open ... similar to what I do in Logos for Mac 1, not to mention that I use multiple screens.

Just between you and me, I like the stark grey because it makes it feel more Mac-like. It might even be a lighter grey than Safari. The basic Mac feel is this steel grey, if you will. I say keep this feel.

It was my understanding that they are making a Mac version to DO what you can DO in the Windows version but not necessarily to be twins in UI, even though they will be quite close in UI it seems. Again, this is my opinion, but I feel it important to voice both sides, as you did. You are not alone Karl!

--Jordan

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/43301#Comment_43301

Not wanting to start an argument, but, the last thing I'd like to see is the Mac version looking like a PC clone/port. I prefer Mac software to look like Mac software with all its character and peculiarities. Personally I find the Mac Beta version much more pleasant than the PC version. Just another opinion ;-)

No worries here.

I agree that you always want your applications to be targeted for your platform in their design. I would argue however that this new version of logos is neither strictly a PC or mac UI design. They are trying many new things that are not common to the standard user experience for either platform. Much of that I think is good for the software industry if done well. They are charting new ground but they are doing it carefully as apposed to Adobe for example which has been rolling out new custom UI for their app suits for the last few years but has not had great execution. I only want the product that Logos puts on the market to be equally polished for both platforms (as far as execution of UI elements). They are already bringing a unique windowing system to the mac platform with this new product but I for one think it is a very good design. the windows are not distracting and they have been very careful to put content (i.e. digital books) first and application UI second in regard to visual prominence. Notice that the PC version has nice subtile touches even with the scroll bars. When not in use they fade out of prominence a bit so that they do not distract the eye from the task of reading. To me this is very important since several books can be opened and "docked" in so many varying configurations. My comment/concern for the mac version is that the standard mac UI for this is very busy. A screen full of bright blue scroll bars is not ideal when reading so much copy. The other main concern is the general polish of the UI. Rough shadows and odd font rendering for content abound on the mac build of the product. I think they will refine this before the final launch but I figured I might as well add to the conversation.

But seriously Karl, I understand your concerns. One gripe of mine (though minor) that I think goes with what you are saying is the placement of the close window (x) on each of the panels found on the mac version. Mac users are used to having these close window controls on the left not the right (not speaking of the main app window but the content panels). Also I would like to see them as part of the tab UI element and not the tab bar itself. I think it would be clearer to the end user what tab they are closing if that change were made and it would allow for a simple UI change for both platforms. the PC version would have the close window/tab control on the right of the tab, the mac version would have it on the left. Microsoft made this change recently for Visual Studio (a development tool) the old version had the close tab UI on the tab bar in previous version but with the new 2010 release of Studio they are on now on the Tab UI. Similar to how most web browser tabs have functioned for years.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/43534#Comment_43534

I agree! It is my opinion that Logos4 should have the same functions and abilities as the Windows version but in a very noticeable Mac way, which is shown in the UI. I do like the fact that I will eventually be able float my windows, because then I can use expose to see what I have open ... similar to what I do in Logos for Mac 1, not to mention that I use multiple screens.

Just between you and me, I like the stark grey because it makes it feel more Mac-like. It might even be a lighter grey than Safari. The basic Mac feel is this steel grey, if you will. I say keep this feel.

It was my understanding that they are making a Mac version to DO what you can DO in the Windows version but not necessarily to be twins in UI, even though they will be quite close in UI it seems. Again, this is my opinion, but I feel it important to voice both sides, as you did. You are not alone Karl!

Karl, All good and valid points. Especially on the use of expose. As far as color of the main chrome. Sure grey is fine. I would only say that the polish is not as nice as other well none mac apps. At least not yet. For example Safari has subtile gradients on every control. If you don't look for them you won't notice but they add visual contrast were needed and help to provide a more polished final UI. The PC version has this in many places where the mac version does not. At least not yet.

I like this point-counter-point.

Blessings!

Bob Pritchett

We're very interested in your thoughts on this subject.

Our goal on Windows is to follow usability guidelines where it makes sense (we follow many Windows guidelines, from standard keystrokes and mouse behavior to capitalization), while still doing what's right for our app. (Which is just what Microsoft (and Apple) does -- after publishing "do it this way" guidelines, they feel free to modify Office or any other app to be right for that app.

On the Mac we need more direction. We understand that Mac users can be, um, enthusiastic... about "the Mac way". So our present plan is to use our basic application framework -- and our windowing system -- while adopting Mac standard controls and patterns wherever possible. But I share your concern that putting a bright blue scrollbar in 6 tiles could be overwhelming and get in the way of the content.

Apple seems to "break the rules" whenever it suits their needs, and we're willing to as well. We'd love to hear your thoughts and when and where we should.

(We've got artists on staff, who are working on the design now, but feel free to post mockups -- or screen captures from other apps -- showing what you think we should do to keep the best of the Logos 4 elegance while being right for the Mac platform.)

shane blyth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44403#Comment_44403

I understand the UI is not in place in the alpha and frankly it shouldnt be in an Alphe there are other things to sort out first at this low a level of development.

I do like the basic look of the PC version Home page I the ribbon is ok only on the home page and i like that it scrolls away when i click something like the reading plans.

Alpha 4 seems basically ok as a layout. I have several panes in a single unified window which is the way I like it.

Sam Shaw

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44403#Comment_44403

We're very interested in your thoughts on this subject.

(We've got artists on staff, who are working on the design now, but feel free to post mockups -- or screen captures from other apps -- showing what you think we should do to keep the best of the Logos 4 elegance while being right for the Mac platform.)

Thank you for your interest in user input!

Please look at the following picture: http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/images/overlay_quicktime_02_20090608.jpg

One direction that Apple seems to be going with certain kinds of content is controls that disappear when not in use. And as a Mac user who's enthusiastic about "the Mac way", I would like to ask your artists on staff to consider if implementing controls that disappear when not in use (like how the black bar on top of the video in the picture is designed to disappear when your cursor is not hovering over it) seems like a good idea. In other words, please consider resources showing up as borderless pieces of paper (perhaps with rounded edges like Apple has it's content done in the picture) if your mouse is not hovering over those resources. Please consider it (I think it'll look good)—that's all I ask.

Thank you for your time!

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44403#Comment_44403

Mr. Pritchett,

I'd be honored to work on some UI mockups. It will take a few days due to the Thanksgiving weekend but I'll post a few mockups as soon as I complete them.

What an exciting time to be studying and learning from Gods Word!

Jason

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44616#Comment_44616

Another interesting Mac UI question is whether or not Expose will reveal individual windows in Logos 4. In Logos 1.2.2, since each is a different Window, triggering expose lets you see every open resource (albeit sometimes overwhelming). In Logos 4, would that still work with the tabbed windows being part of one larger window?

Just a quick thought.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44630#Comment_44630

I would like to see L4mac take advantage of the Mac Desktop system so I could assign certain windows to the desktop of my choice. So maybe one desktop is for language study, another desktop is commentaries, etc..

Mike Melloy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44403#Comment_44403

We're very interested in your thoughts on this subject.

I have struggled for years with the "consumability" (is that a word?) of content on a computer. Not just in Logos, but in almost every application. Visionaries talked about the "paperless office" over 20 years ago, yet paper is more prolific today than ever because people want to see words on a page. I find that to be true with books as well for many people (me included). I am sure that you have heard many times, "There is just something about having the book in your hands". While there is something to the portability of a single book, I suspect that the issue is more related to seeing the page than to holding the book. We can process information by scanning and flipping through pages more effectively than we can by scrolling through a book. Now obviously, this is not about finding information in a book. Logos is the perfect tool for that already. I am thinking more of when I have tried to actually read the books that I have in my library. It just isn't pleasant in the current format. Even with Reading View found in L4 Windows, the feel is not of a book page. It is still scrolling through line after line (or section after section) of text.

I would love to see the Mac have the ability to display book content in a way that provided the ability to flip through the pages of the book. The Apple application Preview does a decent job of this with PDF documents. I am sure that your team could come up with something as good or better for Logos books. It would also be great to have the ability to use gestures with the track pad on the newer macbooks to navigate.

Thanks for asking.

Logos saved me hundreds of hours in seminary. It continues to be a great tool for research and lesson prep. I love the product.

Thanks, Mike.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45039#Comment_45039

Windows user alert! Windows user here.... [:D]

thanks for mentioning the "Expose" feature...I saw this in a video and thought it was incredibly cool...alas...no Win feature like it.

I have to say..Macs have style....

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45536#Comment_45536

If you think that is cool, try this. Use the power of Expose (here I just have Safari and Mail open)

with the power of multiple desktops (here I have Safari and Mail on Desktop 1, Logos 4 on Desktop 2 and Logos 1.2.2 on Desktop 3 and 4 is open.

If mac users could organize types of books, collections or selected windows and place them by default on various desktops, that would be like having multiple monitors while using only one.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45668#Comment_45668

Joe,

don't you know it's wrong to cause a weaker brother to covet?[:S]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46633#Comment_46633

Robert

You are always welcome to leave the darkness and come into the light [:D]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45668#Comment_45668

with the power of multiple desktops (here I have Safari and Mail on Desktop 1, Logos 4 on Desktop 2 and Logos 1.2.2 on Desktop 3 and 4 is open.

Wow! With enough desktops, I can bring back memories of my first Mac with its 9" screen [:D] When I got my first 12" I felt like I had moved up into the mansion district. Now, I can't make it without dual 23" monitors. How easily we become spoiled. [H]

Mitch Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45668#Comment_45668

If mac users could organize types of books, collections or selected windows and place them by default on various desktops, that would be like having multiple monitors while using only one.

ALERT AGAIN <Windows user #2>

Joe,

Can I actually see multiple desktops at the same time (full sized) while using one monitor? If a Mac can pull that off I would buy and use one, too! [:D]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46648#Comment_46648

Can I actually see multiple desktops at the same time (full sized) while using one monitor? If a Mac can pull that off I would buy and use one, too!

Mitch

Joe will probably give you a more complete answer. Until then, I will give you a condensed version. You can set up multiple desktops and see them all at once as in Joe's screen shot, but you only work in one at a time. All the others are still there working in the background, and you can switch instantly between them. That feature is called Spaces.

Mitch Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46680#Comment_46680

That feature is called Spaces.

Hi Jack,

Although not a Mac user I am somewhat familiar with the Mac interface (play with it from time to time) and familiar with Spaces (what is the equivalent name in Ubuntu? I was wanting to have fun with Joe.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46633#Comment_46633

Joe,

don't you know it's wrong to cause a weaker brother to covet?

Than I shall pray you find strength my brother. :-)

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46739#Comment_46739

That feature is called Spaces.

Hi Jack,

Although not a Mac user I am somewhat familiar with the Mac interface (play with it from time to time) and familiar with Spaces (what is the equivalent name in Ubuntu? I was wanting to have fun with Joe.

Jack's answer was right. Multiple "desktops" does not replace a multi-monitor setup, but it sure is cheaper :-)

And I appreciate the fun at the expense of an innocent Mac user like me :-)

Jeromy Waunch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45039#Comment_45039

While I really enjoy Logos 3... I agree with Mike and have been wishing for this for a while. Having an option for the text to be displayed like a book rather than scrolling would be amazing! I'm really glad you took this approach with the iPhone app.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46945#Comment_46945

Having an option for the text to be displayed like a book rather than scrolling would be amazing!

Several people have made similar comments on many different threads in these forums, but I honestly don't see that much difference. If I want to turn a page, I pick up a real book. I would rather Logos put the development time and cost into something much more useful.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44403#Comment_44403

We're very interested in your thoughts on this subject.

Our goal on Windows is to follow usability guidelines where it makes sense (we follow many Windows guidelines, from standard keystrokes and mouse behavior to capitalization), while still doing what's right for our app. (Which is just what Microsoft (and Apple) does -- after publishing "do it this way" guidelines, they feel free to modify Office or any other app to be right for that app.

On the Mac we need more direction. We understand that Mac users can be, um, enthusiastic... about "the Mac way". So our present plan is to use our basic application framework -- and our windowing system -- while adopting Mac standard controls and patterns wherever possible. But I share your concern that putting a bright blue scrollbar in 6 tiles could be overwhelming and get in the way of the content.

Apple seems to "break the rules" whenever it suits their needs, and we're willing to as well. We'd love to hear your thoughts and when and where we should.

Mr. Pritchett,

I've finally had some time to design a UI comp of what I would like to see in the mac version of Logos 4. Without changing the functionality set from the windows version I've set out to maintain a family resemblance to the existing windows client while making the application feel more at home on the mac platform. This is just a first draft and it does not detail all the areas of the UI but I believe its a nice start. If you like this at all I'd be willing to add additional screens to this post.

The main goal was to make the application more mac friendly. in order to accomplish this I've started by reversing the general layout of the content tabs and the main UI bar in order to maintain the mac osx UI metaphor for closing windows (close button on the left, not the right). I've also addressed some issues relating to UI contrast and general affordability. I'm a UI designer by trade and VERY interested in helping Logos in anyway I can. I hope this proves helpful.

Andrew Mercer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80066#Comment_80066

Scott,

I like your thoughts and appreciate the time and effort that you put into this, it certainly does come across "mac like"

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80084#Comment_80084

Scott,

I like your thoughts and appreciate the time and effort that you put into this, it certainly does come across "mac like"

Thanks Andrew. Blessings.

Tom Philpot (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80066#Comment_80066

Scott,

You know we're hiring, right? http://www.logos.com/jobs. Imagine getting paid to work on the Logos Mac interface.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80088#Comment_80088

To be honest it would be a dream job... I haven't applied just yet. I was hoping that these comps would give me some insight into weather or not my skill set was a match for Logos.

I would love to apply my skill set in a company focused on ministry. I can't think of a better opportunity.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80095#Comment_80095

Scott, here is the working link with job requirements

http://www.logos.com/jobs#mac

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80066#Comment_80066

The main goal was to make the application more mac friendly. in order to accomplish this I've started by reversing the general layout of the content tabs and the main UI bar in order to maintain the mac osx UI metaphor for closing windows (close button on the left, not the right). I've also addressed some issues relating to UI contrast and general affordability. I'm a UI designer by trade and VERY interested in helping Logos in anyway I can. I hope this proves helpful.

My initial reaction is that I really liked this!

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80102#Comment_80102

My initial reaction is that I really liked this!

Thank you Donovan. I'm glad you like it.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80098#Comment_80098

Scott, here is the working link with job requirements

http://www.logos.com/jobs#mac

My main concern is that my skill set is right in between this position, the graphic design position, & the web development position. My career focus and passion is in UI and user experience design. By this I mean I spend most of my time designing UI and UX software workflows. This is usually (at least in my experience) a development position even though it does not deal directly with writing code on a day-to-day basis.

I do have an extensive background in CSS & HTML front end development sprinkled with a hint of JQuery for flavor.

I don't write Objective-C, or C#, but I've worked in both .net and cocoa environments and understand the strength and weaknesses of both from a developers perspective when relating to UI. In any case I normally work with the development team and project management.

Just not sure which job to apply for... More specifically, I'm not sure what position(s)/department(s) Logos would expect to use my skill set. Once I figure that out I'm going to apply. I'm leaning towards the graphic design position, since that's the closest match.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80066#Comment_80066

A major UI difference between Apple and Microsoft is Apple's Menu Bar - always present - application name next to Apple Logo with Help on far right. Logos 4 Files, Guides, Tools, and Layouts could become menu items. Possibility: support many layouts open at same time - Spaces has default of 4 desktops. Many Logos 4 layouts would be good reason for increasing Spaces desktops (e.g. 3 x 3 grid for 9 desktops).

Apple's Preview application includes Inspector pop-up tool:

Apple's Numbers 09 has several interesting UI features, including oval translucent button in upper right corner to expand/collapse "ribbon bar" equivalent:

Styles has point and click color and font changes - could become Logos 4 option.

View menu has several customization options, including toolbar - can drag and drop toolbar elements into desired arrangement (e.g. layout, shortcuts, command, file, guides, tools, home, library, search). Personally would appreciate toolbar size choice for Home, Library, and Search icons.

View pop-up menu (subset of Apple menu bar) has option to show or hide comments (yellow sticky notes - can be moved and size changed):

By the way, on dual monitor setup, Apple Menu spans top of one monitor (option to choose which monitor).

Observation about Logos 4 default layout on Windows - 1st line of readable resource information is 5 to 6 lines down from top of window (feels cluttered). Using Logos 4 for Windows, reading Bible in year - Passage Guide showed Pulpit Commentary - clicking Commentary opened new tab and overlaid bible text (wish tab had opened next to Passage Guide instead of next to bible text):

Firefox and Safari include close buttons on tabs - Safari's shows up when mouse moves over tab.

Logos 4 non-intuitive how to close resource tab (turns out to be book cover drop down option, which can be away from tab title), yet has + for adding resource in empty tab space.

Several observations: Microsoft version changes in Operating Systems and Office usually include substantial User Interface changes with associated learning/training opportunities (and initial productivity loss). In contrast, Apple logo in upper right corner has been in same place since original 128k Mac (albeit with different colors over time). On a Mac, try to use easiest way to accomplish task. On Microsoft, wonder what additional step(s) needed - harkens back to Apple suing Microsoft about cloning Apple's Look & Feel many years ago. On Microsoft, do like being able to resize a window by dragging any side along with options to minimize ribbon bar and hide task bar. Apple's original convention of using lower right corner to resize still in use (Microsoft still including dimples in lower right corner). Apple has moved window resize and close buttons from right side of Title bar to left.

By the way, looking at UI mock-up, noticed in lower right area: John 1 location repeated 3 times (within text itself and in 2 toolbars above text).

Wish Bible Text view had some options:

1) Show/Hide Chapter numbers.

2) Show/Hide Verse numbers

3) Show/Hide cross references

4) Show/Hide footnotes.

Logos 4 UI wishes:

* Large or small resource cover icon size

* Ability to collapse 2 lines into 1 (especially if only 1 tab open)

Keep Smiling

WAM Project

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80112#Comment_80112

I'd like to see the Mac version use the Cambria Font like the Windows version. That’s is my Only UI complaint.... But this is an alpha and they haven't finished the pref pane yet so....

WAM Project

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80113#Comment_80113

I will add, making it mac like would be nice. LOL. But I understand the goal of making it common across platforms. So long as when we are done with the pre-release product it is fast and Nimble, I can live...

I am loving the features of the windows version and look forward to them making it into the mac app.

I am able to complete study SOOOO fast now.... I can finally minimize the app to a half screen workflow. Though I have multiple monitors, I tend to have safari up and Pages/Word up for posting and compiling... so having the windows side by side by side and not loosing readability is great... Hurry up and get those prefs so I can change my font ASAP. LOL.

Soon as they add the windows interlinear functionality I can use the mac version 70% of the time instead of the 30% I use it now.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45668#Comment_45668

Thanks for the pictures Joe,

The all in one window is driving me nuts.

Sometimes I want my bible and commentary side by side.

Sometimes I want to be looking at the resources in passage guide

Sometimes I want to be using a bible that is free of links set up in other studies.

Why O why would I want them all in a frame that looks like a one of those sliding block puzzles or narrow ribbons of text 5 words wide you can buy for 10p (or 10c).

I know I can float window off but why is the box the default?

Expose is built in - use it.

Mike

WAM Project

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80121#Comment_80121

I know I can float window off but why is the box the default?

Expose is built in - use it.

Mike

Comes down to taste I guess. I hated the layout of Logos 3. I love the all in one feel of L4 with floating when I choose...

Side note. I'll be glad when they make the verses clickable in the Biblesearch window instead of JUST the words. or fix the word wrap in the Bible search window

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80123#Comment_80123

Over the years have seen many personal tastes for color combinations and screen backgrounds, wonder about UI skins for Logos ?

Cross platform UI skin possibilities: Logos for Mac 1.2.2, Logos 3, and Logos 4.

Some people have varying degrees of color blindness - being able to customize colors and fonts can dramatically affect product usability.

Firefox has wide variety of themes to customize appearance across platforms; also has extensions to modify functionality (e.g. tab close button on left or right, different tabs have different colors).

On Microsoft windows, have used PowerDVD and media players with skins that change location of functionality and appearance. Remember one player had a button to show/hide advanced controls.

Several post comments are consistent with range of ribbon bar comments: from Big Smiles to disgusting frowns.

Automobiles also have variety of shapes, colors, and instrument controls.

From dust to dust - amazing variety of dust around world in shape and color - God is Good

Keep Smiling

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80175#Comment_80175

I would agree that you should always use the Apple menu bar. This is a standard UI metaphor for the mac and I would say a requirement. The current alpha does use the menu as expected. What I'm recommending is duplicative functionality.

Having the main (or most used) features from the Apple menu bar located within the application window itself is a common feature of many fine mac applications. This will also aid users of the PC version if they ever need to study on a mac (and vise versa. You will always know where your core features are.

Also, with regard to "one window" as apposed to several floating windows by default I would say first to each his own. I understand the desire to work this way. I will add though that I believe Logos has struck a very good balance with the new UI and I'm happy to have the ability to "float" what ever window I like.

Personally, managing several floating windows while I'm studying would be a chore. I don't like having to worry about where my documents are within a clutter of application windows. Sure that's what expose' was designed for but I think Apple designed this solution with the mindset of offering users a convenient tool to quickly de-clutter their work environment. That said I think this was in response to a real need for many users to find a way to become organized within the design of the OS itself, not a way to stop 3rd party developers from maintaining organization within their own applications. - Just my 2 cents.

Another piece of food for thought. many of Apple's own applications are one window by design. Apple Motion, Aperture, iTunes, iPhoto, Garage Band, etc... Each team at apple chose to go in this direction for varying reasons but this design choice in of itself is no less mac like that one that floats many windows. And with Logos you can do both with the "Float this panel" command.

This updated comp shows the apple menu bar in all her glory.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80253#Comment_80253

This updated comp shows the apple menu bar in all her glory.

Nice job. I could live with (and adjust) to everything, but I have one really long question regarding the custom menu option for the main window.

1. I like the home icon on the left. Don't you think the "mac" solution would be an adjustable toolbar that would simply let each user add icons and space them where they want? I had a mock-up on another thread with the "customize toolbar" suggestion. What do you think about adding the customize toolbar? How should that look? How should it operate? Also, keep in mind that the L4win has the ability to put shortcuts on the menu that are not in this Alpha yet. Have you seen that? How should that work? I ask because I have given a lot of thought to this, but have yet to think of a good UI design solution worthy of posting

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80285#Comment_80285

[quote]Nice job. I could live with (and adjust) to everything, but I have one really long question regarding the custom menu option for the main window.

Interesting thoughts. You know I think this could be done. I need to review the shortcuts feature on the Windows version. Can you send me a screen grab of that option so I can get a better idea of how it works on the PC? My initial thought is that these shortcuts could be handled in a similar way to Safari's bookmarks bar.

Let me spend some time on this after work and see what I can come up with.

Another thing that needs to be improved on the next mockup is the visual design for the File, Guides, & Tools menus within the window. They look OK but not as mac like as I'd like. The challenge is improving there look and functionality without deviating too much from the Windows client. That's the goal anyway.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback!

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80313#Comment_80313

. Can you send me a screen grab of that option so I can get a better idea of how it works on the PC?

sure, I can do you something even better... see item #4 here on the wiki

http://wiki.logos.com/Visual_Glossary_–_Home_Page

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80313#Comment_80313

Hey Scott, here was my early mockup

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/6325/49072.aspx#49072

I actually propose some other things in this thread, but since you are far more informed and skilled than I, please build something usable from anything you find worthwhile :-)

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80333#Comment_80333

I'll be posting more screens in a bit. But I do have a minor update to the UI that I think makes the top navigation really feel at home on the mac.

Notice the the main navigation options are now Apple standard pill buttons. I'll be working on a version of the navigation manager that Joe has been thinking about later tonight. I hope to have it posted by morning if time allows.

Oh, I've also added some sample "Shortcuts" to the main navigation. Thanks for the tip Joe!

Take care all.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80525#Comment_80525

I like it. It I was not sure about moving the Home button to the right, but it is growing on me.

Scott Criswell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80538#Comment_80538

This screen shows the potential to have "Customize Toolbar" options. Since we will have a consistent Apple application window (top of screen) on the mac version that should duplicate all of the core features of the main navigation we can give the user the ability to rearrange some of the elements of the main navigation to their hearts content.

When the "Use small size" option is selected the Home, Library, and Search icons will be made smaller to fit within the second half of the menu bar leaving the griper bar to match the normal mac UI standard. I'll be posting this variant in just a bit.

Thanks Joe for the thought. I think this is what you were hoping to see. I think touches like this really make the UI more and more mac like.