Several Catholic pre-pubs have been pulled

I saw in the general forum about the change to the pre-pub program and went through some of my old wish lists and noticed that there were quite a few Catholic collections pulled—including the Liturgy of the Hours and a number of collections of Church documents.

The product page for the Grail Psalms should probably be changed since we can no longer get the Liturgy of the Hours to go along with them.

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Louis St. Hilaire

The product page for the Grail Psalms should probably be changed since we can no longer get the Liturgy of the Hours to go along with them.

Thanks for letting us know. We've updated it.

We haven't given up entirely on the Liturgy of the Hours. Our hope is to work out the rights for Psalms and Bible readings as well so that we can sell the complete text (well, at least everything but the hymns), but it will be a different product with different pricing, etc. There are advantages to the dynamic text approach that we tried, but I think people were too confused about what they were getting.

(Also, we could have a revised LotH as soon as 2020.)

Brody Stewart

Indeed, we did cancel a number of Catholic Pre-Pubs that simply weren't getting traction with users. If any of your pre-orders were affected by this, you should receive an email in the next week or so with more details (including a list of all your canceled pre-orders and some recommended alternate products).

augustine9989

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803962#Comment_803962

Wow, some of the texts pulled were pretty fundamental- I'm thinking specifically of papal encyclicals of Leo XIII and other early 20th century popes. Since these are already in the public domain, I imagine that the main cost would be the labor necessary to throughly tag them with live links. Would Faithlife ever consider adding resources like these with minimal tagging (if there's not enough traction as a pre-pub) just to get them into people's libraries? Simply having these documents available and searchable in a basic sense would be better than not having them at all. Just a thought.

Average Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803961#Comment_803961

The product page for the Grail Psalms should probably be changed since we can no longer get the Liturgy of the Hours to go along with them.

Thanks for letting us know. We've updated it.

We haven't given up entirely on the Liturgy of the Hours. Our hope is to work out the rights for Psalms and Bible readings as well so that we can sell the complete text (well, at least everything but the hymns), but it will be a different product with different pricing, etc. There are advantages to the dynamic text approach that we tried, but I think people were too confused about what they were getting.

(Also, we could have a revised LotH as soon as 2020.)

Glad to hear you haven't given up entirely. I understand that Faithlife wants to know the market is there in order to warrant producing a given product. It's just still a bit of a bummer that some of these titles never gained enough traction.

Average Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804003#Comment_804003

Wow, some of the texts pulled were pretty fundamental- I'm thinking specifically of papal encyclicals of Leo XIII and other early 20th century popes. Since these are already in the public domain, I imagine that the main cost would be the labor necessary to throughly tag them with live links. Would Faithlife ever consider adding resources like these with minimal tagging (if there's not enough traction as a pre-pub) just to get them into people's libraries? Simply having these documents available and searchable in a basic sense would be better than not having them at all. Just a thought.

A lot of the papal encyclicals are already in the 5 volume Papal Encyclicals: 1740–1981 set. That's why I never went for the other sets. I can imagine it would get dicey to start producing Logos resources that are deliberately stripped down. I suppose creating our own Personal Books would be one way to do that ourselves.

augustine9989

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804029#Comment_804029

I hear you about deliberately stripping down resources and I thought of creating them as personal books. However, they wouldn't sync with the mobile apps which is huge for me. While I'd love to have the entire papal encyclical set, the price is way out of my budget and my needs are not as extensive. It's a good suggestion however, so thank you.

Another thought I had was the Vyrso platform. I don't use it myself but I believe that those books will appear in a Logos/verbum library and sync with mobile. Perhaps some of the former prepubs could be sent there to mitigate the labor costs associated with formal Logos books.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804086#Comment_804086

While I'd love to have the entire papal encyclical set, the price is way out of my budget and my needs are not as extensive. It's a good suggestion however, so thank you.

That set is why I'm looking to upgrade my Verbum 6 base package to Scholar. Its regular price is almost the cost for me to upgrade.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803961#Comment_803961

We haven't given up entirely on the Liturgy of the Hours.

This is good.

Would it be possible for someone to post a complete list of the cancelled Catholic Pre-Pubs?

Average Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804112#Comment_804112

We haven't given up entirely on the Liturgy of the Hours.

This is good.

Would it be possible for someone to post a complete list of the cancelled Catholic Pre-Pubs?

I don't have a complete list, but I had a spreadsheet of items to keep an eye on (since you can't add pre-pubs to your wishlist), and here are those that I had my eye on that are no longer listed:

Aquinas' Commentary on the Sentences of Peter Lombard: English and Latin (8 vols.)
Liturgy of the Hours (8 vols.)
The Speeches, Messages, and Apostolic Journeys of Pope John Paul II (13 vols.)
Congregation for Catholic Education Collection (18 vols.)
Congregations for Clergy and Consecrated Life Collection (12 vols.)
Georgetown University Press Moral Traditions Series Bundle (48 vols.)
Pontifical Council for the Laity Collection (9 vols.)
Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace Collection (19 vols.)
Pontifical Academy for Life Collection (18 vols.)
Essential Biographies from the Vatican (3 vols.)
Edward Schillebeeckx Collected Works (14 vols.)
Encyclicals of Pope Leo XIII
Encyclicals of Pope Pius XI in English & Latin (2 vols.)
Encyclicals and Constitutions of Pope Pius XII in English & Latin (3 vols.)
Catholic Church and Modern Science, vol. 1: Sixteenth Century Documents (4 vols.)
The Encyclicals, Speeches, and Apostolic Writings of Pope Paul VI (11 vols.)
The Catholic Bible Concordance: Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition

This did motivate be to pre-order a few items that are still there:

Pontifical Council for Culture Collection (4 vols.)
The 1917 Code of Canon Law in English & Latin (2 vols.)

Too many books, too little money. [:$]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804131#Comment_804131

Thank you for that partial list.

I hope and expect that at least most of the magisterial documents will return in other forms. I found them generally too highly priced, although I had placed or was thinking about placing orders for collections that survived and ones that did not. Identifying and re-offering some of the more significant documents and/or making one or more super-bundles with better per volume prices are both strategies that I think have a high potential for success. Furthermore, the number of Catholic FL customers is not shrinking, and a wider selection of magisterial documents would amp up the allure (and volume count) of the next line of Verbum base packages. Or perhaps we'll get a series of "Catholic Magisterium Studies" bundles, or similar. Done right, that could have significant ecumenical appeal.

This did motivate be to pre-order a few items that are still there:

Pontifical Council for Culture Collection (4 vols.)

I had already ordered that bundle specifically because I want this, which to my mind is by far the most significant document in that bundle.

Louis St. Hilaire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804191#Comment_804191

I hope and expect that at least most of the magisterial documents will return in other forms.

We'll look through them to see if some of the more important documents can be reconfigured into more viable products.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804198#Comment_804198

We'll look through them to see if some of the more important documents can be reconfigured into more viable products.

[Y][Y]

Average Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804191#Comment_804191

Thank you for that partial list.

I hope and expect that at least most of the magisterial documents will return in other forms. I found them generally too highly priced, although I had placed or was thinking about placing orders for collections that survived and ones that did not. Identifying and re-offering some of the more significant documents and/or making one or more super-bundles with better per volume prices are both strategies that I think have a high potential for success. Furthermore, the number of Catholic FL customers is not shrinking, and a wider selection of magisterial documents would amp up the allure (and volume count) of the next line of Verbum base packages. Or perhaps we'll get a series of "Catholic Magisterium Studies" bundles, or similar. Done right, that could have significant ecumenical appeal.

This did motivate be to pre-order a few items that are still there:

Pontifical Council for Culture Collection (4 vols.)

I had already ordered that bundle specifically because I want this, which to my mind is by far the most significant document in that bundle.

It probably doesn't help that you can read most recent Church documents for free on the Vatican website. It's a lot easier to find what I'm looking for in Verbum than on the Vatican website, though. And I like being able to move back and forth between sources. There are so many cross-references in Church documents that I've always felt they were a natural fit for the Logos/Verbum ecosystem.

I wonder if bundles of documents arranged by topic would be more appealing than bundles arranged by Vatican dicastery? That would probably be more comprehensible to non-Catholics, which I could see broadening the appeal.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804198#Comment_804198

We'll look through them to see if some of the more important documents can be reconfigured into more viable products.

I would very much like to see JP II's Catechesis on the Creed that he gave in audiences from 1985 to 1991. These were published in 4 volumes by Paulist Press in 1996 and following. There is a 5th volume on A Catechesis on the Mother of God also part of the audiences. Long out of print and the text at the Vatican website is woefully inadequate. Some of the print volumes are very hard to find and expensive.

This is a tremendous resource in unpacking the Creed of our faith and the reason I had pre-ordered the resource set on JP II's Audiences and Homilies set from the very beginning.

Not intending to come across too strongly, but It would be a sad loss not to try and get these into Verbum. [:(]

Louis St. Hilaire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804426#Comment_804426

This is a tremendous resource in unpacking the Creed of our faith and the reason I had pre-ordered the resource set on JP II's Audiences and Homilies set from the very beginning.

The Catechesis on the Creed is included in the volume of JPII audiences that is included in Master and Capstone. It does not look like it has the complete Catechesis on the Mother of God, though. It's spotty before about 1997.

Average Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/804426#Comment_804426

I would very much like to see JP II's Catechesis on the Creed that he gave in audiences from 1985 to 1991. These were published in 4 volumes by Paulist Press in 1996 and following. There is a 5th volume on A Catechesis on the Mother of God also part of the audiences. Long out of print and the text at the Vatican website is woefully inadequate. Some of the print volumes are very hard to find and expensive.

This is a tremendous resource in unpacking the Creed of our faith and the reason I had pre-ordered the resource set on JP II's Audiences and Homilies set from the very beginning.

Not intending to come across too strongly, but It would be a sad loss not to try and get these into Verbum.

Though the "Audiences and Apostolic Writings of Pope John Paul II (11 vols.)" set was removed from pre-pub, the audiences of John Paul II are already available through the Catholic Studies Bundle, L and Catholic Studies Bundle, XL. Depending on your Verbum base package, these sets might be dynamically priced really low for you.. I picked up the XL bundle for under $30 specifically because I wanted these audiences.

They aren't grouped together in the way that the Pauline Media titles are, but most of them are there. There is also a 6th volume in the series "The Trinity's Embrace".

If Verbum is looking for a text source of the audiences on Mary, EWTN’s website contains all 70 audiences on Mary in their archive of documents of John Paul II. All of the General Audiences on Mary are there in that index, but there is no table of contents. Each audience contains “BVM” in the URL, so a word search of the page will locate the relevant audiences. I know that adding them in is probably more complicated that pulling the text from EWTN's website, but in case it's not....

I actually created a blog years ago to link to all the papal audiences, but I'm way behind in updating it. I haven't updated it since Francis became pope. [:$] The older audiences from the first four volumes on the Catechesis on the Creed used to be on the Vatican website, but in a different section from the rest of John Paul II's audiences. But when they redesigned the Vatican website a few years ago, that section was removed.

I picked up paper copies of 5 of the 6 before they went out of print and managed to finally grab the 6th one for a reasonable price after waiting a couple years for someone to post a copy on Amazon for under $20. They are a great resource.