Life after "Send to Kindle" retires
I've been an avid user of "Send to Kindle" over the last year or so. Last year 25% of my reading was Logos books on the Kindle.
So, I had a choice. (1) Revert back to manual ways of sending to Kindle; or (2) Use the Logos app on an Android-based e-Ink reader. For the sake of others thinking of the same options, here are the pros and cons I've found of both:
Things that are better on the Kindle Paperwhite
- Battery life is measured in weeks, not days.
- You can easily look-up unfamiliar words in the Kindle dictionary, and it will remember all those words for you.
- Switching to different books takes a few seconds, and there's rarely a delay when you turn the page.
- The Kindle will estimate how much time is left in the book (although that's rarely accurate on Logos books because of all the footnotes).
Things that are better on an Android e-Ink device
- You don't have to spend 15-30 minutes exporting your book before you read it.
- You can look up any reference, not just Bible references.
- Highlighting and notes will sync back to your Logos desktop.
- You can use Reading Plans.
Overall
I'm actually glad Logos are turning off the Send to Kindle service, because if they hadn't I wouldn't have bought my Android e-Ink device (a Boyue T62+, if you're interested). For me, being able to look up any reference, and not just Bible references is a huge plus. That's enriched my reading — although I certainly miss not being able to look up words in the dictionary.
In terms of time/money, I read about 20-25 Logos books on an e-Ink device in a year. If they take an average of 20 minutes to convert to the Kindle, that's around 7-8 hours of my time a year, which is certainly worth the $118 I spent on the Boyue.
So, overall, if you read a reasonable amount of Logos books, switching your Kindle Paperwhite for an Android device is worth it — both for the time it will save you, and for the benefit of better linking, reading plans and syncing highlighting/notes.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
Comments
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Mark, thanks for reflecting on your journey to use Android e-ink. Before you switched from Kindle to Android did you ever have any experience with an iPad?
The reason why I ask is primarily because I had already chosen to own an iPad mini to do my Logos reading but the only drawback is e-ink which now I'm wishing I had. Long stints of reading on my iPad mini still is quite straining on my eyes. Ideally I'd love it if apple would come out with an e-ink reader so I can stay with it but the Boyue T62+ does look tempting.
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Hi Mark
Thanks for this analysis
One of the issues people using earlier e-Ink devices have reported is that they are "stuck" on a particular version of Android which eventually can't use the latest Faithlife app. One of the implications of this is that some resources won't load, another is that the app they are running is no longer supported.
The page you link to about the device states that it will be upgradable - which may suggest supporting later Android versions.
Any thoughts how you see this developing over the next year or so?
Graham
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Bruce Dunning said:
Before you switched from Kindle to Android did you ever have any experience with an iPad?
I had an iPad but I sold it when I purchased my Kindle. Or to put it another way, I bought my Kindle because the reading experience on the iPad wasn't good enough.
That said, I wouldn't use my Boyue for anything other than reading. If you have other tablet needs, you'd need an additional device.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Graham Criddle said:
One of the issues people using earlier e-Ink devices have reported is that they are "stuck" on a particular version of Android which eventually can't use the latest Faithlife app. One of the implications of this is that some resources won't load, another is that the app they are running is no longer supported.
The page you link to about the device states that it will be upgradable - which may suggest supporting later Android versions.
Any thoughts how you see this developing over the next year or so?
I'm not holding out much hope for this running a later version of Android. I'm working on the assumption that if the Android app does jump to KitKat or above, then I'll sell this on eBay and purchase a new device (probably this one, if it's released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtbglCLEEMk). Resale prices for the Boyue on eBay are very good - it seems some people prefer purchased a used device from a local seller than to import a new device from China.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark, thanks very much for this summary. I have a few questions:
1. Do you use a case/cover for your device and, if so, which one?
2. What was your experience buying from the banggood site? If I buy, I'll want it shipped to the US, which means I cannot use Paypal (which uses my local non-US address) but I'm kinda leery of using my credit card on a site I've never heard of before.
3. Was the device shipped to you within the specified time?
4. According to the product page at banggood, the device is sold out currently - do you know if there's a way to be informed when it's back in stock?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance.
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Mark Barnes said:
I'm not holding out much hope for this running a later version of Android. I'm working on the assumption that if the Android app does jump to KitKat or above, then I'll sell this on eBay and purchase a new device (probably this one, if it's released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtbglCLEEMk). Resale prices for the Boyue on eBay are very good - it seems some people prefer purchased a used device from a local seller than to import a new device from China.
Thanks Mark
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Mark Barnes said:
(probably this one, if it's released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtbglCLEEMk).
Good gravy, that one is still too small. But then I saw this 13.3" beauty by the same company: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/13-3-inch-android-e-reader#/
I. Want.
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Yasmin Stephen said:
1. Do you use a case/cover for your device and, if so, which one?
I never use a case for any of my devices.
Yasmin Stephen said:2. What was your experience buying from the banggood site? If I buy, I'll want it shipped to the US, which means I cannot use Paypal (which uses my local non-US address) but I'm kinda leery of using my credit card on a site I've never heard of before.
I actually purchased from eBay because it was out of stock at banggood. I linked to banggood because links to eBay auctions expire over time, but this is the eBay seller I used. I don't remember the exact delivery time, but I was pleasantly surprised, and it was less than two weeks.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks, Mark, for taking the time to answer my questions!
Mark Barnes said:I never use a case for any of my devices.
Never?! That's sad [:P][:)]
I always use a protective case/cover of some sort (there are ongoing mini-battles in my handbag!), and normally shop for both device and cover at the same time.
Mark Barnes said:I actually purchased from eBay ...
I never considered eBay because I didn't think I'd get a good shipping rate but there seems to be free international delivery so I'll most likely buy from there. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be anything near pleasantly surprised by the delivery time (BookDepository takes 6+ weeks to get books to me, so ...) but the savings on shipping should be worth the wait.
Now, if I could only stumble across a good case ...
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Mark Barnes said:
Logos are turning off the Send to Kindle service
I did not know this was going to happen? When will they turn it off? and more importantly why?
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The announcement was made on March 7—see here:https://community.logos.com/forums/t/123765.aspx?PageIndex=1
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Brad Gault said:Mark Barnes said:
Logos are turning off the Send to Kindle service
I did not know this was going to happen? When will they turn it off? and more importantly why?
End of month. See here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/123765/808427.aspx
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Yasmin Stephen said:
Now, if I could only stumble across a good case ...
I would have thought that most generic third-party 6" e-reader cases would fit this device. It's slightly thicker than a Kindle Paperwhite, but very similarly sized.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
I would have thought that most generic third-party 6" e-reader cases would fit this device. It's slightly thicker than a Kindle Paperwhite, but very similarly sized.
Yes, I'm looking now but most of what I'm seeing (that's not specifically built for the Paperwhite) would interfere with the side buttons, and those that wouldn't don't look all that attractive. I need something that both works and looks nice. Also, most of the cases are sold and fulfilled by Amazon sellers, not Amazon. I don't have a problem buying from their sellers but I prefer for my orders to be fulfilled by Amazon; I normally go out of my way to ensure this criterion is met.
(All that said, I'm giving up the search for now. I think I'll just wait for the reader to get to me and then try my current Paperwhite cover on it. If it fits, I'll order another similar cover; if not, I'll just start the search all over.)
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Yasmin Stephen said:
(All that said, I'm giving up the search for now. I think I'll just wait for the reader to get to me and then try my current Paperwhite cover on it. If it fits, I'll order another similar cover; if not, I'll just start the search all over.)
I would have thought that a case with corner elastic would do: http://amzn.com/B006ZBWV0K
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
I would have thought that a case with corner elastic would do: http://amzn.com/B006ZBWV0K
This is great! And beautiful as well. Thank you [:)] I like that it ships from and is sold by Amazon.
The only one I'd found with corner elastic that I merely liked was this one: http://www.amazon.com/Navitech-Natural-Organic-Style-Carry/dp/B0085LEPFW, which is neither sold by nor shipped from Amazon. And it has no reviews! *scary*
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Mark Barnes said:
Battery life is measured in weeks, not days.
Just disable wifi, blutooth, automated email checking, google hangouts and all other unneeded services, then any decent Android e-ink device will also run for a few weeks with a single battery charge.
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Jan Krohn said:
Just disable wifi, blutooth, automated email checking, google hangouts and all other unneeded services, then any decent Android e-ink device will also run for a few weeks with a single battery charge.
That's not my experience.
I won't disable WiFi (and don't on the Kindle), but have no other services running. I find that the battery will last for around 5-7 days. I do use my device fairly heavily (perhaps 45 minutes to an hour each day). My Kindle will last for about three times that long with similar usage.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Hi Mark,
I'm really grateful you took the time to update us about this. You have certainly convinced me of the benefits of having a Boyue t62+! Quite apart from being able to use it for reading from my Logos library, I can also install my kindle and an epub reader (since I have many books in those formats), not to mention being able to read pdfs on it too. This will finally enable me to consolidate my electronic libraries and resources and be my main device for bringing to conferences pre-loaded with relevant material, or on holiday, as well as for more regular reading at home. In addition the backlight is a feature I have wanted for some time in my e-reader for reading in bed.
I have been doing a lot with logos on my phone but it is not such a pleasant reading experience and contributes I'm sure to the inevitable battery drain on a mobile. The 5-7 days of battery use you mention above is good enough for me, and I may get more since I can disable wifi for my non-logos reading most of the time.
Your questions (and the responses) on the other thread -
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/124217/811849.aspx#811849
will no doubt be very handy when I receive mine.
Thanks again,
Colin.
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Mark Barnes said:
I'm actually glad Logos are turning off the Send to Kindle service
Huge disagreement with this statement...
I have a lot of money invested in Kindle books generally so am EXTREMELY disappointed in Logos discontinuing their service. Your post only serves to help Logos justify to themselves what I think is a bad decision.
I don't have any Android devices and have no desire to go there. The Kindle is the most popular reading app so will now have to go back to the old method of taking 15 minutes or so to convert a book.0 -
Taxee said:
Huge disagreement with this statement...
I have a lot of money invested in Kindle books generally so am EXTREMELY disappointed in Logos discontinuing their service. Your post only serves to help Logos justify to themselves what I think is a bad decision.
I was surprised to find myself writing that. When the announcement was made, my immediate response was that it was "terrible news", as I relied on the service.
Nevertheless, that is the opinion I have come to. It's not intended to make Faithlife feel better about switching the service off. But I can honestly say that whilst I loved the "Send to Kindle" service, reading a Logos book on a Kindle is not as good as reading a Logos book using the Logos app on an e-Ink Android device — at least not for someone who likes to be able to look up references whilst they're reading.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Taxee said:
I have a lot of money invested in Kindle books generally so am EXTREMELY disappointed in Logos discontinuing their service. Your post only serves to help Logos justify to themselves what I think is a bad decision.
I don't think this was a decision Logos could avoid making (or agreeing to) - from the little bit of info we were given and from what can be inferred from the stories on the web that tell other e-book sellers' stories, this probably has been pushed down from the big A retailer.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Taxee said:
I don't have any Android devices and have no desire to go there. The Kindle is the most popular reading app so will now have to go back to the old method of taking 15 minutes or so to convert a book.
But, if you had an android-based e-Ink device you could install both the Kindle and Logos apps and have the best of both worlds, right?
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Taxee said:
Your post only serves to help Logos justify to themselves what I think is a bad decision.
I disagree with this. I believe that Logos is likely to lose money because of this, and I doubt they would have come to this decision lightly. Logos benefits from people being willing to buy their more expensive versions of books, and have the opportunity to read them on someone else's reader.
For reasons I don't understand, people on this forum have been willing to spend far more money for Logos versions of many "reading" books than if they bought them from a competitor. Up to now, people were wiling to pay significantly more for books, and then take the time to send those books to their Amazon reader, then download the books, when they could have saved, sometimes significant money buying the book from their competitor, and just opening their reader, and starting to read.
If it gets considerably harder to convert the books to a Kindle format, or they have to buy additional devices to read their books, people will have even less incentive to pay significantly more for their Logos books, and some of these customers might just start comparing prices, and feeling like it is not worth the extra money.
In fact, it could, conceivably, result in Logos having to lower their prices on books that people don't tend to want to search.
By the way, I do realize that some people are equally as interested in converting the books they already have, from purchasing packages. Still, my point is that Logos is more likely to loose money from the result of this. I'm not sure why many people have felt like Logos somehow WANTED to make this change.
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Mark Barnes said:
I won't disable WiFi (and don't on the Kindle), but have no other services running. I find that the battery will last for around 5-7 days. I do use my device fairly heavily (perhaps 45 minutes to an hour each day). My Kindle will last for about three times that long with similar usage.
Then that's your own choice of a short battery life.
Wifi on Android is a complete battery waster. I'm sure there must be some reasons to keep it switched on all the time while reading...
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Jan Krohn said:Mark Barnes said:
I won't disable WiFi (and don't on the Kindle), but have no other services running. I find that the battery will last for around 5-7 days. I do use my device fairly heavily (perhaps 45 minutes to an hour each day). My Kindle will last for about three times that long with similar usage.
Then that's your own choice of a short battery life.
Wifi on Android is a complete battery waster. I'm sure there must be some reasons to keep it switched on all the time while reading...
Because without WiFi I can't look up references to resources I haven't downloaded yet, and I can't sync "last read position" between my various devices. Those features are very important to me. I suppose I could keep turning WiFi on and off, but I'd rather just occasionally charge my device.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I just got a message from the eBay seller that the post office returned the device to their warehouse because they couldn't reach my address ...!! [^o)][:(]
(Anyway, I can well believe that; a friend went to China some years ago and she spent an inordinately long time with immigration because they were all over the place trying to locate St Lucia. At the time she related that story I found it funny but now ...)
I'll have to think about what to do next. The banggood site, which ships to the US, is still showing sold out.
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FYI,
There is a great in depth review of Eink readers on PC Mag called "Best Ebook freaders of 2016, dated March 21, 2016.
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After reading all of this, I picked up a Boyue.
It just arrived. I opened it up and I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. I've never really used an android device. Is there a place anyone can point me to for the basics of this Boyue? Need Kindle and Logos for sure. Any help for a TOTAL noob would be very very welcome.
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Hi Aaron, I'm on my phone and can't multi-task just as well at on my pc but if you search the forum posts for boyue you will find Mark Barnes asking for some help when he got his new. That forum that helped me a lot when mine arrived.
Personally I've decided not to install kindle on yet because the page animation when the pages turn is not handled particularly well it seems by the boyue. I'm using mine for logos and books in other formats which can be read by the very versatile ereader program on the boyue.
Essentially you want to install play store so you can put on logos and kindle (and other apps). This means entering developer mode, hooking up to your computer and following the steps in the guide Mark used. I have to say it wasn't very intuitive but it wasn't difficult with the extra help Mark and others gave on that thread. If you find it and try to follow it but still struggle, why not tag onto that other thread and you'll get the help you need.
Colin
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Colin said:
Hi Aaron, I'm on my phone and can't multi-task just as well at on my pc but if you search the forum posts for boyue you will find Mark Barnes asking for some help when he got his new. That forum that helped me a lot when mine arrived.
Thread => Help requested with Boyue T62+
Keep Smiling [:)]
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key is to tap the 'Settings>About device>Build number' item seven times and then click your heels together!
Not for the faint of heart.
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I use both my iPad mini and my Kindle Paper white.
iPad Mini: great for quickly looking things up, navigating through references and doing searches. Not bad, but the eye strain is higher with this device.
Kindle PaperWhite: The best experience by far if you are going to sequentially read one page to the next (like a real book). It has low eyestrain ranging from pitch black to full sunlight. This is as close to reading regular paper as you can get on a electronic device. I definitely would not want to use this device for jumping around between references.
I would love to see a comparison with the Boyue T62+ to see if it is worth the price to still have an e-ink solution. The copy/export only allows you 100 pages and is a bit of a pain if you suddenly want to read a different book.
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