Orthodox Base Packages Discontinued? No
Now that Logos 7 is here, it appears that the Orthodox base packages have been discontinued. I'm not really all that surprised, since they discontinued the Platinum package while Logos 6 was still being sold. I am disappointed, but at least the resources can still be purchased individually. I hope the base packages are just being delayed, though.
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Hi Russel,
We do have plans to launch Orthodox for Logos 7. They should be ready later this week.
Senior Director, Content Products
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Ben Amundgaard said:
We do have plans to launch Orthodox for Logos 7. They should be ready later this week.
Yay!
Now the title of this thread needs to be edited in order not to inadvertently deceive people.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Yay is right! Thank you!
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Thank God! I was so upset when I saw the title of the topic.
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Suggest the web site say something like "Coming soon for Logos 7" rather than just linking to a void where Orthodox is missing.....[:)]
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Yes. I also figured it was missing since I was redirected to a page missing Orthodox base package which also led me to believe it was discontinued. Hopefully the package is filled with books I can use, not promises of prepub-books to come.
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Ben Amundgaard said:
Hi Russel,
We do have plans to launch Orthodox for Logos 7. They should be ready later this week.
Are we there yet? [;)][A]
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Working on it [:)]
We've had a few things come up this week and haven't wrapped them up. They're definitely in progress.
Senior Director, Content Products
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Ben Amundgaard said:
Working on it
We've had a few things come up this week and haven't wrapped them up. They're definitely in progress.
Y'all have had a tough week. Thanks for the hard work!
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Any plan for Chaplain package Ben?
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mike said:
Any plan for Chaplain package Ben?
Why not make this a separate thread?
I believe that because of a lack of newer pastoral resources, FL is planning to use some public domain resources to bulk up their new, as yet unreleased, Chaplains base package. Among the titles I believe we will see are:
- How to Help a Parishioner Who's Suffered from a Run-Away Horse
- Making the Most of Ministry Opportunities When the Circus Comes to Town
- Ministry to Itinerant Ice-House Workers
- Comforting Families Whose Children Will Not Stay Down on the Farm
- Mastering the Transition to Using the Piano in Worship
- Guarding Your Family from the Evils of the Telephone
- Sermons Preached in a Brushy Arbor
- The Evils of the Hobo Camp
- Ministering to Families at the County Farm
- Evangelism Strategies in the Age of Victoria
and many more just like this!
OK. So I know nothing more than you do. [;)]
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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How about a little more transparency. The previously-available libraries such as the Orthodox Library Builder are no longer available, and the new product was just launched without an Orthodox base package. This is more than just it not being available, otherwise there is no reason for previously-available packages to have gone away. And links to the former Orthodox base package now redirect to a page with all the base packages (but nothing for Orthodox), there is not even a "coming soon" page.
What's the deal? I understand the Orthodox probably don't have much buying power, but please don't make it impossible for Orthodox Christians to purchase their resources without bundling them with stuff we don't want/need. For instance, I can't even buy the Byzantine lectionaries without purchasing the full feature set or a Logos NOW membership. What gives?
I'd appreciate some frank honesty here.
- Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
- Why was Orthodoxy excluded from the Logos 7 release?
- If Logos does intend to continue offering packages for Orthodox Christians, what is the anticipated product release date and will the same introductory v7 deals be available?
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The best way to get any sort of answer Dan in regards to your concerns is to email bob@logos.com. I agree there has not been enough openness and transparency about what is going on with the Orthodox product range.
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Dan O'Day said:
- Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
- Why was Orthodoxy excluded from the Logos 7 release?
These two questions have been answered by Faithlife although more implicitly. The packages were not ready at the time of the Logos 7 release - getting a package together is complex. It requires that the resources add up to the same value as the packages in other denominations. It requires that the contracts for those resources allow them to be sold at a discount with some change in compensation to the publisher. It requires that the resources if not in publication be far enough along in the process for Faithlife to be certain they will be published (my guess is they need the files in hand for producing the resource). Furthermore, they need to be reviewed by someone who is Orthodox and knows if they will meet user need not someone who is guessing at what the Orthodox need.
As for why they pulled the old offerings before the new ones were available - or at least rename them and make the resources available - that is a very good question.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Now that Faithlife has affirmed that it will be releasing Orthodox base packages, I am okay with waiting a bit longer. The only thing I would have done differently, is I would have included a "Base Packages Coming Soon!" graphic when you go to the Orthodox store page. Other than that, I don't really think it is necessary to be more transparent. But that's just my two cents
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Dan O'Day said:
How about a little more transparency. The previously-available libraries such as the Orthodox Library Builder are no longer available, and the new product was just launched without an Orthodox base package. This is more than just it not being available, otherwise there is no reason for previously-available packages to have gone away. And links to the former Orthodox base package now redirect to a page with all the base packages (but nothing for Orthodox), there is not even a "coming soon" page.
What's the deal? I understand the Orthodox probably don't have much buying power, but please don't make it impossible for Orthodox Christians to purchase their resources without bundling them with stuff we don't want/need. For instance, I can't even buy the Byzantine lectionaries without purchasing the full feature set or a Logos NOW membership. What gives?
I'd appreciate some frank honesty here.
- Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
- Why was Orthodoxy excluded from the Logos 7 release?
- If Logos does intend to continue offering packages for Orthodox Christians, what is the anticipated product release date and will the same introductory v7 deals be available?
I assure you that there's not attempt here at a lack of transparency and I'm very sorry it feels that way. Let me try to answer your questions as frankly as possible:
- Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
Yes. We have no plans to discontinue our Orthodox line of products. - Why was Orthodoxy excluded from the Logos 7 release?
There are many reasons (some small and some larger) for this. As MJ pointed out, the primary reason is lack of available materials. It is a complex and sometimes protracted process to get new materials into our base packages. Probably the next most significant reason is that our Orthodox product manager left in February for a different job. That has left me (and Anglo-Catholic) and Lou (a Roman Catholic) to manager Orthodox-related things. While Lou and I have enough knowledge between us to handle the day-to-day management of the Orthodox product line, building a base package is a little bit harder and we want to make 100% sure we get it right. I'm just about done with a first draft of the packages and I plan to reach out to Gabe (the previous Orthodox product manager) to see if will will give them a review. Please know that the delay in shipping these packages comes from a desire to offer Orthodox Christians a quality product, even if it takes a bit longer. - If Logos does intend to continue offering packages for Orthodox Christians, what is the anticipated product release date and will the same introductory v7 deals be available?
I'm really hesitant to give a product release date at this point (I already regret saying that they'd be available at the end of last week). There are a lot of moving pieces and some of them are out of my control. That said, I am hopeful that I'll finish the first draft today and get it reviewed in the next couple days.
As to why we pulled the previous packages: again, there are a number of reasons for this. One of them has to do with the way our website handles base package tracks as they show up in comparison charts and other base-package related pages. Relatedly, the way we reconfigured the base packages for 7 (decoupling the feature set from the libraries) wouldn't have worked with the existing packages (because they fall in the English-speaking track of packages). Pulling out the resources and offering them separately would've been somewhat difficult and would've essentially made more Orthodox bundles.
I hope that helps give you a bit more clarity into the situation. You can rest assured that we are working hard on getting out new Orthodox base packages as soon as possible.
Senior Director, Content Products
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Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. I didn't realize Gabe was no longer with Logos, so that explains a few things. I would recommend in the future to use the Orthodox products mailing list to let existing customers know they haven't been forgotten or have a coming soon placeholder next to Orthodox base packages in future releases. Folks are still clicking on ads such as this one but now not finding what they were looking for:
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Ben Amundgaard said:
1. Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
Yes. We have no plans to discontinue our Orthodox line of products.
So when will a free Orthodox book of the month start to be available?0 -
Hey Ben!
What about us former platinum purchasers? How does all this affect us?
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David Ames said:Ben Amundgaard said:
1. Does Logos intend to continue offering base packages to Orthodox Christians?
Yes. We have no plans to discontinue our Orthodox line of products.
So when will a free Orthodox book of the month start to be available?Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
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Columbcille Dougherty said:
What about us former platinum purchasers? How does all this affect us?
'We' lost nothing. 'We' just do not have anything new to buy - yet,
'We' just need a dedicated Orthodox manager and about 10,000 additional Orthodox customers ready to buy at Silver or higher.
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Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
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David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
That would be great - but I would hate to have to pick a denomination and be limited to its freebies forever after!
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David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
I thought the separate freebies was because there's logos.com and verbum.com, and not merely denominational.
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Yasmin Stephen said:
I thought the separate freebies was because there's logos.com and verbum.com, and not merely denominational.
That is the reason. There have been several Orthodox books given as the Free Book of the Month on Verbum. St. Athanasius' On the Incarnation of the Word of God was given as a freebie, for instance.
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EastTN said:David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
That would be great - but I would hate to have to pick a denomination and be limited to its freebies forever after!
The way it works now is that if you know where to find them you can have them all. And the second is only 1.99.
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David Ames said:EastTN said:David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
That would be great - but I would hate to have to pick a denomination and be limited to its freebies forever after!
The way it works now is that if you know where to find them you can have them all. And the second is only 1.99.
Unless it's Verbum's, which is only $.99.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Ben Amundgaard said:
I assure you that there's not attempt here at a lack of transparency and I'm very sorry it feels that way. Let me try to answer your questions as frankly as possible:
Thank you for your response Ben. The very simple way to avoid this problem is to communicate with your customers. You have forums, you have mailing lists you even had a Orthodox Blog and if memory servers me correct a Orthodox launch page on Logos.com. Make use of these means of communication with your customers. Don't just simply pull everything down without telling them what your good intentions are for the product range.
If you communicated this ahead of time, say 6 weeks ago that in four weeks time we need to pull existing Orthodox packages from the product range for a period of time, but they will be coming back at a yet to be determine period of time. But if you now have four weeks to upgrade your existing base packages before we remove the old ones - you might have generated some additional sales. When the Logos 7 packages were released for the other denominations maybe revival of the old Orthodox Library Builder might have been an option as a sweetener to those of the Orthodox Faith - maybe contractual issues prevented this but its just a thought about how Faithlife could have gone about this whole process in a different way that would have communicated to their Orthodox customers they are still very much valued and still very much a part of Faithlife plans instead of the cloak and dagger removal of the product range overnight. Faithlife seem to stumble from one bad PR exercise to the next with its customers. I just don't understand why they never learn from the same basic mistake of not communicating with their customers. It's Customer Service 101, Retail 101 and Marketing 101 basic stuff.
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I'd certainly welcome a chance to explore works from other traditions at a reduced price to see whether I would want to invest in a larger set.David Ames said:EastTN said:David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
That would be great - but I would hate to have to pick a denomination and be limited to its freebies forever after!
The way it works now is that if you know where to find them you can have them all. And the second is only 1.99.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
David Ames said:EastTN said:David Ames said:Yasmin Stephen said:
Are they planning to have denominational/tradition-specific freebies of the month?
Logos and Verbum have free books of the month so why not others?? [[I hope they are at least thinking about it]]
That would be great - but I would hate to have to pick a denomination and be limited to its freebies forever after!
The way it works now is that if you know where to find them you can have them all. And the second is only 1.99.
And I do, each and every month - for which I'm very grateful to FaithLife. I should have been a bit more explicit about my point. Realistically, there has to be a limit to how many free resources FaithLife can afford to give away every month. They have what, seven denominational packages in addition to the "Standard" and Verbum packages - eight if you count Orthodox? That would be eight additional resources each month, plus another eight for either $0.99 or $1.99. I would absolutely love that. But that would be sixteen additional minimal cost books each month, on top of the four I'm already getting, for twenty in total. My library has already significantly benefited from the various free offers FaithLife has made over the last several years. If I were getting a couple of hundred books a year essentially for free, at some point it seems that it would reduce my motivation to keep buying new books. And folks buying new books is what keeps the lights on at FaithLife.
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