Downgraded?

i have over 3200.00 invested in Logos Verbum.

when I have been offered an good " library upgrade " that met my needs, I so.

when I called in for logos 7 upgrade, I was told I now have bronze.

I have been told I had many libraries but never before told I have just above entry level.

I think " Master " ( or something like that ) was my last library upgrade - around 500.00 .

At any rate, I bought the full set of tools ( not much there) but notice I'm now downgraded to Bronze and thus any upgrade calculator is based on that and just duplicates much of what I already have- or so it seems.

I guess I would say, for me- logos upgrades are one of the most frustrating , confusing software / resource issues I know of.

Any clarity offered will be appreciated.

thanks

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Comments

James Taylor

so it seems.

but its not what is true.

dynamic pricing ensures you don't pay for what you own so disregard that "downgrading" logic.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850137#Comment_850137

Thank you James:

sadly though, I have gone from a mid level or,

upper mid level library to basic.

if I look at the upgrades minus what I have,

im paying for the upgrade but getting far less resources

than someone else paying the same amount

but that has fewer resources.

sorry if this is jumbled, page keeps jumping around, can't see what I'm typing- grin, not that it would help much.

Thanks again for the info.

blessings.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850153#Comment_850153

You have Bronze L7, but you still have Masters' (L4?). You still have all of your books, and one of the reasons you get fewer books is because you already own some, which lowers your price accordingly. You are definitely not getting fewer books than someone else paying the same amount. You still have all of the features you had before, plus some. It is not a downgrade in any way.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

I have observed with the Logos 7 packages, there are a lot less resources that are the same as in Logos 6. I think this is one reason for the increased cost to upgrade (unless you already own a lot of the new resources).

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850180#Comment_850180

Must be a problem with either the upgrade calculater

or browser interaction with it.

At this point it seems a better deal if I was

a new customer than an old one.

Im going to try from different computer/ browser.

3200.00 as new customer shouldn't buy better

library/ tools than old customer.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850185#Comment_850185

Good point Erin.

I will check that , might be it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

For grins plus learn a bit about Logos 7 dynamic pricing effects with Logos Now & Verbum Now membership, decided to purchase a starter Logos 7 Library (without feature set) that had 96 % dynamic pricing discount:

Methodist & Wesleyan Starter $ 5.09 with 96 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Bronze $ 20.94 with 89 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Silver $ 76.23 with 87 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Gold $ 266.35 with 78 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum $ 485.32 with 74 % dynamic pricing discount

After purchasing Methodist & Wesleyan Starter and using "update resources" command, library count increased by 4 that was consistent with "New to You" resources on M & W Starter product page. Dynamic pricing for larger M & W Libraries changed:

Methodist & Wesleyan Bronze $ 17.25 ( $ 3.69 ) with 91 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Silver $ 71.52 ( $ 4.71 ) with 88 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Gold $ 261.38 ( $ 4.97 ) with 78 % dynamic pricing discount
Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum $ 480.25 ( $ 5.07 ) with 74 % dynamic pricing discount

Net effect is a M & W Platinum upgrade after M & W Starter "downgrade" library expansion is effectively $ 0.02 more than a M & W Platinum upgrade. Thankful for two cents of learning a bit. Logos About still shows my largest Logos 6 Library purchase.

Personally dreaming of Suggestion: "Gem" superset of Base Packages for a much larger library expansion (one cart purchase) plus praying for God's calling in my life.

By the way, web site search shows your dynamic price for Logos 7 and Verbum Libraries (not yet purchased):

https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&Product+Type=Base+Packages&unlocked=no&start=&sort=pricehi&pageSize=60

I think " Master " ( or something like that ) was my last library upgrade - around 500.00 .

Verbum Library names were changed to be consistent with other denominations. Thankful for Fr Devin Roza's reply => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129397/841044.aspx#841044 that includes:

Platinum - Think v6 Master, with some nice additions. This level is a big upgrade for serious academic study of theology or Scripture. Almost all of Benedict / Ratzinger's works, Search Training videos, Nestle-Aland Greek NT 28th edition, textual criticism commentaries, Theological Dictionary of the NT, Theological Lexicon of the NT and of the OT, Dictionary of Classical Hebrew. BDAG. Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary.

Diamond - Think v6 Capstone. Navarre Bible Commentary, Balthasar's and Peter Kreeft's books, JPS Commentary. Commentary from the Talmud and Hebraica, Raymond Brown's works, UBS Commentary series, A broad selection of serious academic studies of the NT and OT, Christian Origins and the Question of God Series, Journal of Biblical Literature, Letter and Spirit, Lots more Church Fathers, Works of Aristotle and Plato.

Portfolio - It covers in a very complete way all the most important works and authors of 2000 years of Church history, plus ancient Jewish thought, plus philosophy. Entire CUA Fathers of the Church Series, Classics of Medieval Spirituality, Classics of Modern Spirituality, Black's NT Commentary, Lexham Bible Guides, Bablyonian Talmud, Jewish Encyclopedia, Jewish Law, large collection of philosophical works. Easily the best library Verbum has offered.

Hope that helps. Again, just a first impression looking them over.

I agree with MJ that in general the biggest improvement to the packages compared to v6 is the Church Father's coverage, and to that I would add: the big improvements in Starter, the lower price with which you can get all the features using Now, and the addition of the Portfolio level.

Verbum "Master" became Verbum Platinum

Keep Smiling [:)]

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850186#Comment_850186

I still don't understand why I used to be listed as

having a mid level plan , which I upgraded

a couple times and now I'm showing an entry level

plan.

I have never gone to car lot to " trade up" and

come away with a lesser car.

if I die and my wife wants to sell my library, it's not worth much as Bronze.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850187#Comment_850187

Then why do I not show to have Verbum Plat.?

instead it shows bronze.

secondly, I'm not getting anything like " fantastic " upgrades for little money.

going to change computer/ browser.

thanks

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850190#Comment_850190

I am correct, checked it even with iPhone.

signed in.

upgrade to silver ( where I started years ago if

memory serves, over 400.00 my price.

So, I look at what I will get- it's what I already have.

I have more than that of course, but what's

there, I mostly have and its shows " what I will get now".

something is wrong with upgrade calculator- Logis should be informed.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850191#Comment_850191

For whatever help it might be to Logos- the calculator

is much more accurate in Verbum and specific library

packages such as Anglican etc.

still there remains duplication of resources in

the " new to you " listings.

However, accuracy better than generic libraries.

hope this helps.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850188#Comment_850188

if I die and my wife wants to sell my library, it's not worth much as Bronze

One option is will designation for library transfer (perhaps to a student chosen by the Dean at a school). If selling, suggest listing library resource contents (e.g. Bibliographic report) that shows library has substantially more content than Verbum Bronze (in an appropriate place, not the Logos forums).

For About display of library contents, I created thread => Bug: Verbum 7 About ? for Faithlife development.

FYI: Logos 6 Collector's Edition describes a substantial albeit minority part of my library content.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850198#Comment_850198

still there remains duplication of resources in the " new to you " listings.

Please illustrate duplication.

Personally found Verbum Portfolio (on logos.com) shows 326 "new" resources for me:

The "New to You" shows individual resources

and partially owned collections:

Expanding "Fathers of the Church: Fathers of the Ante-Nicene Era (23 Vols)" shows my dynamic price for eight "New to You" resources, which are not in my library. Series:"Fathers of the Church" has the owned resources.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Friedrich

when I called in for logos 7 upgrade, I was told I now have bronze

Fr Matheny, when you open your Verbum library and look in the upper right corner, click on the little "help" symbol (an encircled question mark). A little menu will pop up. select, at the bottom, the "about" selection. Notice at the top it'll give you a brief profile overview for you. Note mine:

You can see on the "licensed to" section it lists Portfolio for me. I bought that back during Logos 4 days. I have bought several other packages from other traditions (including Verbum Scholars) but that is my highest. My suspicion is that you will find your "Masters" package listed there, if that was the highest.

I am not at all clear why the rep would have said you were "bronze." I would call them back and ask them. Maybe he was just recommending bronze to you, unless you bought Verbum 7 Bronze. That doesn't take away from the fact that you have Masters. For me, though I have "Standard Portfolio" as my "highest" package, I still just am up to the "Gold" level for L7. They reconfigure the packages each time that they release a new major edition of the software. I gained some pretty nice sets and other books in Gold Standard that I did not own, even with Portfolio from earlier editions. If I were to purchase Verbum Bronze now, I could get it for 157 dollars, about 55 resources that I don't already own (although for a new purchaser, they'd get many more resources new in Bronze, because they don't have a library already--and they'd pay wayyy more)

So, in short, you are NOT "bronze" unless you just purchased Verbum 7 Bronze, but it does not negate that you ALSO have Master's, and that was your largest library. (I can't remember, was Master's above Scholars?)

Hope this brings a little clarification or peace.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850202#Comment_850202

Personally found Verbum Portfolio (on logos.com) shows 326 "new" resources for me:

I like your price better than mine . . .

Keep smiling . . . [:)]

Greg Corbin

I think the previous replies brought some clarity. Personally, I have struggled with this issue too - everyone who is passionate about Logos likes the idea of being listed as having one of the higher packages. However, when I honestly take a look at my library, it really doesn't matter what I am classified as. I have all of the resources I have purchased. Many of the best resources I use everyday aren't in any base package. When Logos 7 came out everything in me wanted to upgrade to the highest package, but I actually upgraded to Silver and used the rest of the money to purchase two incredible resources that were on sale but not included in any package. I use those resources every single week to great benefit. Logos needs to rework their packages with every iteration of the software for many reasons - some of which involve marketing and sales. I understand that. I have determined to "be content with what I have", be grateful the Lord has provided it, and make additional purchases that truly add value to my library rather than just status.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850295#Comment_850295

Quick thanks to all.
My frustrations/concerns are not resolved and, as usual, just don't have the time to invest today, but wanted to thank all for their kindness.

FWIW- Im not mistaken, the upgrades are very confusing and the upgrade calculator is inconsistent- see three pages of thread in that area.
We went through similar with 6 and 5.

Probably a mistake on my part as "early adopter" instead of waiting as I just don't have the time during Logos business hours to sort things out.

Still having issues with the software itself and tools but, nothing I can do during business hours at this time and- Thats not Logos fault.

I appreciate all the help, did clear up a couple areas, other areas will just have to wait .

I don't know how to close the thread out, delete, if someone does or, can, please advise of feel free, I got what I needed which was clarity .

Thanks.

EastTN

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850312#Comment_850312

It might be a bit clunky, but I wonder if this could be solved if instead of listing the highest base package for the current generation of Logos, FaithLife showed the highest base package purchased for each major revision number (e.g., Logos 5 Scholar's, Logos 6 Platinum, Logos 7 Silver). It would make absolutely no difference in what we owned, but might help avoid the loss in "sense of ownership" folks feel.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850312#Comment_850312

FWIW- Im not mistaken, the upgrades are very confusing and the upgrade calculator is inconsistent- see three pages of thread in that area.
We went through similar with 6 and 5.

+1 [Y] about Version 7 upgrade confusion, which included Feature Set(s). For me, Logos Now & Verbum Now membership is better than purchasing feature set. Also concur with "New to You" confusion for comparative prices, which has been improved.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850190#Comment_850190

instead it shows bronze.

Please attach a screen shot that shows Bronze.

Curious what shows in About Verbum ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

SineNomine

At any rate, I bought the full set of tools ( not much there) but notice I'm now downgraded to Bronze and thus any upgrade calculator is based on that and just duplicates much of what I already have- or so it seems.

To put it clearly, for the benefit of all:

1. "downgraded to Bronze" - No. You bought Bronze. You didn't have it before. You have resources you didn't have before because you bought Bronze. Acquiring something new is not a downgrade. NB: There is no "status" whatsoever for having a certain level of base package. The 'pseudo-status' of having a particular level of base package does not affect anything, except maybe ego. You are best off ignoring your 'status'.

2. "any upgrade calculator is based on that" The pricing in the upgrade calculator, like all dynamic pricing, is based on what resources (and features) you own. Categorically. Resources you don't own don't become cheaper because you own something else. Packages/bundles/libraries may become cheaper when you buy something because part or all of that thing was in that package. You don't pay twice for the same resource.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850632#Comment_850632

Dear SineNomine:
I have never purchased Bronze- ever.
Secondly. I rather resent the inference that this thread is about ego/status- it isn't, it never has been.

Its about value.

My Ford F150 truck is worth more than my Nissan car, because it cost more and holds resale value better.
It will never become something other than an F150, not a 100, not a 50, not a 25- it will always be an F150 and its value
starts " there, at that basis.

I don't have Bronze, I have never had bronze, I have over 3 k invested, I can buy bronze several times for that.

With my next resource upgrade, I will have around 4000.00 dollars invested , if i die, i want my wife to have options on giving my libraries away ( physical and digital) or selling.

She cannot get much for a Bronze library and no matter how much people say_ Oh, it doesn't matter, your resources are your resources- I does matter because they don't pay 3k for bronze.
Secondly, Logos reshuffling the libraries revalues them and , we , the purchaser lose, not Logos.

Lastly, this thread was about the upgrade calculator not being accurate, being very confusing.
Im not the only one who thinks so.

Reporting the upgrade calculator broken is to benefit all.
Not my ego.

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850690#Comment_850690

Fr. Charles R. Matheny, I'm not sure I understand. Where are you being told that you have Bronze? If it's in the application, or on the website, can you provide a screenshot?

Also, can you explain further how the upgrade calculator is broken? Can you provide screenshots of what you are seeing, and explain what you are expecting to see?

Russel Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850690#Comment_850690

This thread is confusing. There are two possibilities going on:

First Possibility: Every time Logos upgrades (ie, from Version 4 --> 5 --> 6 --> 7) the Base Package Libraries are reworked. If they weren't reworked, you wouldn't be able to upgrade from Logos 6 Anglican Gold to Logos 7 Anglican Gold, for instance. But anytime you purchase a new library upgrade, Logos takes into account any resources you already own. Therefore you pay the difference in price between full price and what you already own. I had purchased Logos 6 Orthodox Gold a few months ago. Today, I upgraded by purchasing Logos 7 Orthodox Bronze. I received several new resources, but I didn't pay the full Bronze price because I already owned many of the resources that were included in the package. That doesn't mean I now have a Bronze library. If I were to try to sell it later, I would just sell it as a Logos Library, and I would provide a list of all the included resources.

Second Possibility: The Logos website is -actually- messed up for Father Matheny. It is not calculating the dynamic prices properly and is not crediting him with his prior purchases. If the "New to You" dropdown is showing resources that you already have, then this could be the problem. Mind you, the new Libraries often only include parts of collections, and you have to click the "expand" button to see what resource is actually new to you in the library - if anything.

After reading through this entire thread, I honestly can not tell which problem is happening in this situation. I hope it gets straightened out for you, Father.

Paul Strickert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850703#Comment_850703

Maybe it helps to go with the car analogy. If you purchased a 2014 F150, you still own the 2014 F150 two years later. It does not magically turn into the 2016 model. The same with Logos 6 Platinum. It doesn't just turn into Logos 7 Platinum two years later. If you want the L7 Platinum model, which contains features, datasets, and resources not included in the L6 model, you have to purchase the L7 model. (Also, you could always purchase a 2016 Nissan. Then you'd have the 2014 F150 and the 2016 Nissan.) The analogy breaks down, of course, because you don't have to pay a second time for the same resources, if there is overlap between packages. So, you could purchase L7 Platinum at less than retail if you owned other packages, since it probably contains resources you've purchased before.

Fr Devin Roza

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850690#Comment_850690

With my next resource upgrade, I will have around 4000.00 dollars invested , if i die, i want my wife to have options on giving my libraries away ( physical and digital) or selling.

Don't worry - when people buy libraries from other people, they would likely purchase all the books they own. They don't purchase "Bronze" or "Platinum", but the sum total of everything someone has purchased.

So, for example, someone who has Verbum 5 Capstone, and then gets Verbum 6 Gold, and then buys Verbum 7 Bronze has a library worth thousands of dollars more than someone who only has Verbum 7 Bronze. And when that person sells that Library, if they were to mention "Gold / Bronze", etc. to advertise it, it would be to say that it is V5 Capstone + V6 Gold + V7 Bronze. It's both/and, not either/or.

Nothing ever goes away, and the Bronze / Gold / etc. is actually quite meaningless - Libraries are just a big digital pile of books, on sale for a time, that are added to the books you already own!

And - if you have Bronze but didn't want it, I would suggest simply calling and getting your money back. It was likely just an honest mistake by the sales rep you spoke with.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850712#Comment_850712

Dear Paul: I think you may be misunderstanding how Logos works.
The 4, 5, 6, 7 have to do with software/engine- not libraries.

Starter, Bronze , Silver etc have to do with library tiers ( resources ).

I already paid for logos 7 thus whatever I had , Masters, Silver - whatever, should now be : Masters/Silver - whatever 7.

I Paid for 7- I should have the same library but now as 7.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850769#Comment_850769

The 4, 5, 6, 7 have to do with software/engine- not libraries.

This is simply not correct. In previous versions, the boast was always that the engine was free. We paid for resource bundles and some tools.

In version 7, we explicitly pay for a library and/or tools. The engine remains free and will be released to the public eventually.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850712#Comment_850712

Dear Fr Devin: I understand that.
The problem is in the calculator as far as i can tell- I got inconsistent ( non- repeatable ) prices the night I posted.

The main confusing part would be: If I have silver, bronze isn't an upgrade.
Granted they seem to have added resources that in prior days wasn't in bronze and I may not have, but its not an "upgrade" - its adding resources.

I have an iPhone 6s, upgrade to iOS 10 - upgrades the operating system , but does not change my phone, it doesn't become an iPhone 5s.

The upgrade calculator the other night, was basing my library on bronze- not what is in my library-, thus "new to me" was showing titles i have owned for many years.

Thus my "trying" to be a decent human being and reporting: There seems to be a problem/glitch with the upgrade calculator.

Frankly- all the Logos madness on levels makes no difference to me other than what i leave when I die, other than that, I don't care.
Most of my purchases are "sets" or individual titles I need rather than " step" upgrades that load me up with a lot of titles that have little use to my studies.

That said, when there is a good deal , I think everyone wants to be know that and cannot is the upgrade calculator malfunctions.

Sheesh, should have been a simple thing- grin.

Grace and Peace

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850702#Comment_850702

Hi Andrew: As stated the other night: Sales stated i had Bronze, didn't really click for me.
The night I posted I tried the calculator from differing machines/browsers to see if it was a browser/machine issue- results were mixed- inconsistent - non repeatable- indicating some type of error.

Verbum calculator however was better, seemed to "see" the library in my account/profile.

Just tried to let someone know there was an issue.

Couple people asked me to look in specific place from my library designation- nothing there.

However, to my understanding, my download should have no effect on that- calculator based on purchase history/profile/account- unless I misunderstood Tech support when we had so many issues at launch of 6.

I will check again after dinner, perhaps servers were taxed, perhaps just a temp glitch- who knows.

I will say, I do not like paying to upgrade and being listed with a lower tier library.
I fully understand have a middle tier library means you have the libraries below it.

I just believe is one has Silver or Gold etc and they pay for the upgrade to 7 they should then have Silver of Gold 7.

Library didn't change and customer paid for the upgraded tools.

That makes sense to me.

Blessings.

Oh and, not sure how one takes "screenshots" - I just work on my computer and my work has never required that, not a "gamer" either so- limited to what I know.

Thanks and blessings.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850776#Comment_850776

is this what your looking for Andrew?

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850703#Comment_850703

Dear Russel: The latter is the main issue.
The only thing different from what your saying is: If you had Orthodox Silver 6 and paid for the 7 upgrade ( all the tools/software engine is usually free after a bit) then you should then have Orthodox Silver 7.

Sales had me at Bronze apparently and calculator seemed the same.
After thinking on it a couple days and remembering what "i think" I learned back in 6- likely there was an issue reading the resource file connected to my account and it just "plugged me in" at bronze, thus "new to me" showed resources I already have.

Hopefully its all fixed now.
I don't usually jump at early adoption but, was excited to see 7- differed gratification got swallowed up and - there ya go.

Btw- How do you like the Orthodox Library?

Blessings

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850781#Comment_850781

FWIW- Upgrade calculator now seems to function correctly.
Very little duplication, those areas maybe updated ( Catechism of Catholic Church etc) , small items.
Prices are consistent and make sense.

Same is true on each denominational category , its properly showing what i have and do not have, calculating from there apparently.

Thanks

Russel Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850787#Comment_850787

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is actually showing correctly. They released the international version, so if you bought the Library you would end up with two CCCs. I added the Verbum Starter Library and that's what I have now!

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850790#Comment_850790

Thanks Russel: I figured it was something like that.
Btw- Russell is my middle name- grin.

Here's a hoot- I have over 3200.00 invested.
Diamond is 3400.00 and change.
To upgrade to Diamond would cost me 1384.00! ( Verbum) - guess i should have stayed with step upgrade program instead of adding library sets.

Actually it makes sense, a great deal in that package I don't have so, it makes sense.
Just looks funny ya know.

Still no Balthasar! hahaha

Im just glad the upgrade calculator isn't nuts this time.

Russel Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850792#Comment_850792

Father,

My son's name is Russell (yes, he's got two 'ells'!), so it's nice to meet yet another one of us! Well, I'm glad it seems to be working correctly for you now.

I do like the Orthodox package. I had L6 Orthodox Gold, and I like it a lot. The upgrade to L7 Orthodox Bronze is a little underwhelming, but considering I was coming from 6 Gold, I knew I had most of the L7 Bronze library already! The upgrade price was mostly the new L7 features. But, I really want to get L7 Gold so that I can get Part 2 of the Popular Patristics series.

I do wish that Logos had the Orthodox Study Bible, though. As it is, I usually use the RSV 2nd Catholic Edition, which is a fine translation. I'll also use the EOB, which is New Testament only.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850781#Comment_850781

The only thing different from what your saying is: If you had Orthodox Silver 6 and paid for the 7 upgrade ( all the tools/software engine is usually free after a bit) then you should then have Orthodox Silver 7.

I used to think that. Now I just accept, as many have noted on this thread, that that is not the case. Pretty much each rendition of the base package range (Starter-Portfolio) is recast for each new version of Logos. That never negates that you had Verbum Master in 6 (or whatever it was).

You used iPhone/iOS as an example. Perhaps you would draw a more direct parallel by saying you have an i5 core PC that is running Verbum 6, now Verbum 7. But what is different is that Logos allows you to purchase a set of books/tools at a better rate per book/tool for each software upgrade release than it would cost to buy those books/tools individually. Perhaps the parallel would be if Apple allowed you to buy some high end apps at a greatly reduced rate, packaging those in groups with titles like bronze, silver, and gold. And then they would reconfigure those groupings with each major iOS release. You would always have that set of apps that you bought with iOS 8 (Gold), but when it came to iOS 9, you would not have to buy the iOS 9 Gold, especially if you did not have the money, but you might purchase the iOS bronze, and score a few nice apps to add to those you already purchased with iOS 8.

Anyway, glad to hear the calculator seems to be working. That might have contributed to your concern and confusion. Not sure we could explain things much differently about why you are not really downgraded from Verbum 6 to 7, even though I get it. I bought Portfolio in either 4 or 5 as I said above, but then purchased only Gold or something on the next software upgrade. I got the new software, just a different package of books to go with it.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852008#Comment_852008

Perhaps the parallel would be if Apple allowed you to buy some high end apps at a greatly reduced rate, packaging those in groups with titles like bronze, silver, and gold. And then they would reconfigure those groupings with each major iOS release. You would always have that set of apps that you bought with iOS 8 (Gold), but when it came to iOS 9, you would not have to buy the iOS 9 Gold, especially if you did not have the money, but you might purchase the iOS bronze, and score a few nice apps to add to those you already purchased with iOS 8.

That is a great parallel Friedrich...

Of course Apple (and the like) do do this. Take, for example, 'Pages' cheap at one time with an OS upgrade. Just like a Logos resource.

Incrementally upgraded for free with various versions and tweaks. Just like a Logos.

And just like Logos every so often they may say 'We have made such changes to Pages it is like a new program' here is a new deal.

You can keep the old version and it will function just fine - or you can, if you value the new features, get the new version at $xxx.

What I don't understand is why anyone would buy resources that they don't value just to get a label on a menu that is hidden!

danwdoo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852056#Comment_852056

Perhaps a terminology change would be helpful here. Instead of Logos 7 packages (gold, bronze, etc...) you buy a Logos 7 Resource pack (whatever flavor) and have a Logos Engine edition that is either starter or full (or any other editions). That way, in the future when I buy logos 9, I see that I have Logos 9 full engine and Logos 9 Gold resource pack, Logos 8 starter pack, and Logos 7 bronze pack as an example. This could help end some of the confusion that I have a logos "level" to maintain instead of realizing it is just a set of resources I bought with the new engine at a particular time in the past.

Russel Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852069#Comment_852069

Perhaps a terminology change would be helpful here. Instead of Logos 7 packages (gold, bronze, etc...) you buy a Logos 7 Resource pack (whatever flavor) and have a Logos Engine edition that is either starter or full (or any other editions). That way, in the future when I buy logos 9, I see that I have Logos 9 full engine and Logos 9 Gold resource pack, Logos 8 starter pack, and Logos 7 bronze pack as an example. This could help end some of the confusion that I have a logos "level" to maintain instead of realizing it is just a set of resources I bought with the new engine at a particular time in the past.

I agree, a change of terminology would help. I think they should use the year in the naming of the libraries. So, I could order a 2016 Orthodox Gold Library, and a 2016 Verbum Silver Library. Then, supposing the libraries are reworked in 2018, I could add on a 2018 Orthodox Bronze Library, and a 2018 Anglican Starter Library. Additionally, using the words "add on" a library rather than "upgrade" would help as well.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852133#Comment_852133

How is a year distinction any different than me saying I have L6 Collectors, L7 Silver, L7 Baptist Gold and Logos Now (or the full feature set, if that is your upgrade path)? It's an upgrade because you have all of the books and features you had before, plus more, even though silver is below collectors. If I went to the bookstore and bought the Complete Works of Charles Stanley, then went back next week and bought The Early Years of Adrian Rogers, I still upgraded my library, even though the second addition was smaller than the first.

They use the "level" terminology because, as a psychological tactic, people want to preserve their "status," regardless if it has any meaning. Take it off the User Profile page (to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings) and leave everything else the same. They already call it a Library and a Feature Set instead of a base package. So if L6 Collectors Library, L7 Silver Library, L7 Baptist Gold Library and Logos Now sounds better to you, it is perfectly find to give the full title. For most of us, the other is an unambiguous shorthand. The last thing we need is yet another terminology change when people are still confused from the last one.

Russel Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852151#Comment_852151

It's really not any different. I just think it would be less confusing to new folk, and those not quite as invested in Logos. I think the current system makes sense, but there sure are a lot of confused people posting in these forums.

In any case, it is just a suggestion. And I'm certain that you are correct that the "level" terminology is intentional, and so I do not expect it to change.

Deacon John Szarek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/852203#Comment_852203

I can understand the frustration. I purchased Verbum Capstone, the top of the line, I tried to keep up with updates throughout the years, but now if I want to own the top of the line for Verbum 7 I would have to fork out over $2,000 more dollars. I no longer show up as having Capstone but instead fall under Verbum 7 Gold. I'm not in it for the status, but what I have noticed is that with each of these upgrades there are a lot of books that I would never in my entire lifetime use. I would like to see Verbum list ALL available library resources and tools as potential upgrades and allow us, the consumer, to select specifically what we want to add. So if Greek is meaningless to me, I can save myself some additional money and not have it in an upgrade to Portfolio or perhaps substitute Sacra Pagina Collection instead. I find it odd that a collection like Sacra Pagina is on sale but even if I upgrade to Verbum 7 Portfolio, it wouldn't be available to me. I would much prefer being told that I am currently at Verbum 7 Gold, for $2,000 more I can upgrade to Portfolio and select ANY 200 of 500 library resources I want and 5 of 10 tools that I want.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919141#Comment_919141

but what I have noticed is that with each of these upgrades there are a lot of books that I would never in my entire lifetime use.

I would like to see Verbum list ALL available library resources and tools as potential upgrades and allow us, the consumer, to select specifically what we want to add.

With the separation of resources and features we now have a better understanding of the value of the resources we purchase with a (Logos 7) Library, and can view a Library as a Collection with (usually) a very good Sale price. But FL want a Library to equip users with resources that effectively utilize the features of the software (those that are included + those separately purchased). Hence the inclusion of certain English bibles, bible dictionaries, English dictionaries, grammars, lexicons, Greek Bibles, Hebrew Bibles, atlases, maps and media. Then there are 'filler' resources (to me) like Latin texts, Other Ancient Language texts, Journals, Theology, Church History, Ministry, Counselling, etc. But I look at the 'sale' value of the resources I want and purchase accordingly. Then I hide many of the 'fillers'.

I find it odd that a collection like Sacra Pagina is on sale but even if I upgrade to Verbum 7 Portfolio, it wouldn't be available to me.

Sales usually depend on the publishers, especially when discounted in Libraries. So if you are not chasing the status, accept the current sale and the possibility that it may later be offered at a better discount in a Library.

Bob Price

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/850295#Comment_850295

Greg has hit the nail on the head. What we really need to do is to think differently than we used to think. We were all taught to think in terms of "packages" and levels. When I started years ago with the starter set, I had a plan to move up through the levels every few years until I could get to the top. So, a while later I upgraded to Bronze, and I was on my way. When Logos 7 came out, I thought I'd move up to Silver. However, the price was much higher than I was expecting, so I looked deeper. We all know the way that Logos changed how the feature sets work, but that was only part of it. I found that the Silver library was now much different than it was when I first started on my upgrade plan. The same was true for the other packages as well.

What this showed me was that I could no longer think about the packages as I had before. In fact, getting a Starter package again (using dynamic pricing) would actually give me some resources that I did not have, even though I had previously purchased Starter. As Greg mentioned, I still have everything I've ever purchased--nothing was taken away. The big difference, though, is that the packages no longer mean what they used to mean.

For many reasons, Logos changes the definitiion of what is included in a package. I think that, instead of caring what package I have, I should focus on what resources I have. The packages represent a cost-effective way to add resources to my library. Sure, I agree that it's confusing, and we no longer have a way of determining where we are on the "package ladder", but if you think of it in terms of the resources you have, I think you'll see that it's still good.

Maybe I'll just keep "upgrading" to Bronze every once in a while, and I'll still get something new. Just a thought... ;-)

Bob