Logos having trouble moving L7?

I got a 2 question email asking me why I had not purchased L7 yet with several options. The other question was how likely I was to recommend Logos to a friend. My eagerness to recommend has dropped significantly over the past two years.

But my thoughts on the L7 purchase made me wonder if there just aren't a lot of people moving up to it. I don't know if you could extrapolate from the forum users a representative of the whole, but it seems like many aren't upgrading. I personally am not paying ~$175 for just a couple of features I would use. I am certainly not adding another monthly payment to my plan until this one is paid off (because of the changes in policy).

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DMB

Maybe you're the 'last Logos6-er standing?' A personal email!

More likely standard marketing, 2nd wave. Recommend speaks to your true ecstatic desire for the product.

But I agree, though I don't know their target; maybe it's not us.

Reminiscing inaccurately:

Logos4: radical change; a break from the Bible market, new major marketing

Logos5: great sales and RI's. And L5 hit the sweet spot ... speedy and powerful.

Logos6: meh ... a little this and that. 221 denominational packages

Intermission: Shades of Grey, dating for pastors, and rent-a-thon Now. 20% of Logos goes up in smoke.

Logos7: features for who?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855033#Comment_855033

Denise,

You still make me laugh with your perspective.

Jan Krohn

My impression is, Logos is rather trying to move users to Logos Now rather than to Logo 7 - which would mean complimentary upgrades to the latest and greatest version anyway.

So all new features have been discussed in the Logos Now and Logos 6 forums already. So it's quite obvious that the L7 forum is less active than the L5/L6 forums were upon their initial releases.

Personally, I think that L7 offers better value-for-money than any of the previous versions since L3.

I mean, it's like going to Burger King and ordering a double whopper meal upsize with French fries and Coke. If you don't want Coke, you get a Fanta instead. Or a Cesar salad instead of French fries. Or just the whopper if you're not very hungry or need to watch your calories. L7 is just as flexible in combining a selection of components (library, feature set, membership). With that flexibility, most users should be able to compose a "meal" that meets their needs and suits their wallet.

The only thing that might keep me from recommending Logos to a friend is the steep entry level price. It'd be much easier to recommend a package like the "Leaders Library" on L4 for I thin $150, if I remember right.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855037#Comment_855037

So all new features have been discussed in the Logos Now and Logos 6 forums already. So it's quite obvious that the L7 forum is less active than the L5/L6 forums were upon their initial releases.

In addition, Logos 7 worked ... far fewer bugs to report ...

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855037#Comment_855037

The only thing that might keep me from recommending Logos to a friend is the steep entry level price. It'd be much easier to recommend a package like the "Leaders Library" on L4 for I thin $150, if I remember right.

That is the biggest problem, there is no affordable entry level package. And the content of the starter library doesn't feel right particularly the commentaries, very heavy on Psalms and then there is JFB and Vincent's, are these already available for free in other software ? Are people really going to pay a premium for Logos to get these two commentaries ? Personally I like FSB but not convinced its for the average person in the pew so it doesn't feel right as the sole study bible in this package. Most of the other stuff is ok, though some of the stuff probably is not really entry level bible study package material either and could have been left out so a better option could have been provided for the study bible for example.

I mean, it's like going to Burger King and ordering a double whopper meal upsize with French fries and Coke. If you don't want Coke, you get a Fanta instead. Or a Cesar salad instead of French fries. Or just the whopper if you're not very hungry or need to watch your calories. L7 is just as flexible in combining a selection of components (library, feature set, membership). With that flexibility, most users should be able to compose a "meal" that meets their needs and suits their wallet.

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

JT (alabama24)

But my thoughts on the L7 purchase made me wonder if there just aren't a lot of people moving up to it.

Compare the number of posts in the L6 forum to those in the L7 one.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855097#Comment_855097

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

Agreed, but that's a communication problem, and not an issue with the product itself. Even for an insider the process is very complex.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855145#Comment_855145

Now that this thread has gone for a while, may I ask if anyone has any actual data on Logos 7 sales? or sales vs. expectations? Or to explain to me the pleasures of discussing topics upon which one has only unsubstantiated speculation? And how to expand these pleasures to theology? ... oops we can do the last on these forums.[:$]

Mike Childs

Well, I upgraded simply for the books. I really seldom use any of the new features. I still study in my ole inductive manner that Dr. Robert Traina (Methodical Bible Study) taught me in seminary. Maybe someday I will incorporate some of the new features, but I am not interested now.

But there were some good book packages. I subscribed to Logos Now because it made the overall package cheaper. I probably will not re-subscribe.

But I am a sucker for books.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855147#Comment_855147

Now that this thread has gone for a while, may I ask if anyone has any actual data on Logos 7 sales? or sales vs. expectations? Or to explain to me the pleasures of discussing topics upon which one has only unsubstantiated speculation? And how to expand these pleasures to theology? ... oops we can do the last on these forums.

MJ if you wanted to say we have veered a little off topic in regards to the OP's original post you would be fair in doing so, but you have not said that rather you have been unfair in your judgments. You are the one making unsubstantiated comments You have somehow taken a discussion of individuals experiences, individuals observations about how some customers have experienced the Logos 7 purchasing decision and individuals expectations of an ideal entry level Logos package and somehow you have turned that into an accusation that people are making judgements on the success of the Logos 7 launch.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855182#Comment_855182

somehow you have turned that into an accusation that people are making judgements on the success of the Logos 7 launch.

Somehow that is still how I read the title ... as a rhetorical question implying that Logos is having sales trouble ... how is that an incorrect reading?

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855145#Comment_855145

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

Agreed, but that's a communication problem, and not an issue with the product itself. Even for an insider the process is very complex.

Yes communication has definitely been an issue and for my mind continues to be but that is going to far off topic from the OPs original post so I'll say no more.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855185#Comment_855185

I also received the email asking why I had not upgraded. If I remember correctly, there was no option for "other" with a blank spot for us to write in an explanation. Had I been given the chance, I would have chosen that option and explained that Faithlife should have had all the base packages and topical bundles ready at launch. There was a delay in Orthodox being released, topical bundles still are not available, and as of the last time I checked (2 days ago?) Faithlife still had not responded to a thread that had been started asking if there would be a Chaplain's Library this time around. I want to know what ALL the options will be before making a decision, and that includes topical bundles, as the content/pricing of the bundles could potentially influence what base package I would select. Your move, Faithlife.

EDIT: Just to provide more context in case anone from Faithlife reads this, I WANT to make a purchase, but I need to be sure I will be making the right purchase that best suites my needs/budget, as I only see myself making a single purchase this time around. Yes, I could buy something now and return it later if the topical bundles change my mind regarding what best meets my needs, but Faithlife has not provided a ship date, and that leaves me with no guarantee that I will still be within the 30 day return window. Again, I WANT to make a purchase.

Jesús Polaino

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855188#Comment_855188

EDIT: Just to provide more context in case anone from Faithlife reads this, I WANT to make a purchase, but I need to be sure I will be making the right purchase that best suites my needs/budget, as I only see myself making a single purchase this time around. Yes, I could buy something now and return it later if the topical bundles change my mind regarding what best meets my needs, but Faithlife has not provided a ship date, and that leaves me with no guarantee that I will still be within the 30 day return window. Again, I WANT to make a purchase.

I was exactly in this situation. I upgraded to Stater Standard expecting the Spanish base packages to be launched within 30 days to decide to buy the Spanish one or upgrade to the Bronze Standard. Sadly, the Spanish base packages are not alive as yet, so I returned my Starter Standard. I really don´t like this situation as it means extra work for Faithlife people. Next time Iwill be more patient.

Blessings,

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855033#Comment_855033

Logos4: radical change; a break from the Bible market, new major marketing

Logos5: great sales and RI's. And L5 hit the sweet spot ... speedy and powerful.

Logos6: meh ... a little this and that. 221 denominational packages

Intermission: Shades of Grey, dating for pastors, and rent-a-thon Now. 20% of Logos goes up in smoke.

Logos7: features for who?

Quite possibly the best review of Logos bible software I've ever seen. [:)]

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855211#Comment_855211

I was exactly in this situation. I upgraded to Stater Standard expecting the Spanish base packages to be launched within 30 days to decide to buy the Spanish one or upgrade to the Bronze Standard. Sadly, the Spanish base packages are not alive as yet, so I returned my Starter Standard.

It would perhaps boost Faithlife's sales if they were willing to extend the 30-day return limit given the situation. However, I still do not know that I would go for it due to the simple fact that it would make it more difficult to compare things after the bundles are released. Example: Suppose today I buy base package A, which contains books that will later be included in topical bundles X and Y. When X and Y are actually released, I decide it would have made more sense to buy base package B along with bundles X and Y. I would need to contact customer service to get an accurate price comparison because my purchase of A impacts the price I am shown for purchasing B, X, and Y. I would rather just wait and compare everything myself without working backwards trying to figure out what would be different had I not already purchased a base package.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855211#Comment_855211

[Deleted - accidental duplicate post]

Rick Ausdahl

I moved up to L7 mainly because I understood at the time that the Bible Browser was included in the L7 Full Feature set. It was a major disappointment when I learned it was not included and I seriously considered returning the Feature set as I wasn't that interested in the other L7 features that were not already in L6. But... I didn't return it. Hoping instead the Browser will be included in the Feature set when L8 is released and that I'll live long enough to be around for it.

I also used the L7 release though to pick up the following libraries that had some resources I felt would complement my library and for that I'm thankful.

LIBRARIES

Standard Silver
Anglican Bronze
Methodist and Wesleyan Bronze
Pentecostal and Charismatic Bronze

PS: If L7 sales are slow (and I'm not suggesting they are--really have no idea) but if they are, perhaps adding the Bible Browser to the Full Feature set would generate some additional interest. I know... My bad. [:$]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855188#Comment_855188

Faithlife should have had all the base packages and topical bundles ready at launch. There was a delay in Orthodox being released, topical bundles still are not available, and as of the last time I checked (2 days ago?) Faithlife still had not responded to a thread that had been started asking if there would be a Chaplain's Library this time around. I want to know what ALL the options will be before making a decision, and that includes topical bundles, as the content/pricing of the bundles could potentially influence what base package I would select. Your move, Faithlife.

Well put. It seems to me the Logos 7 roll out has not gone as smoothly as the Logos 6 launch, If they had waited until October maybe they would have had Orthodox, Chaplains, and Topical bundles ready,

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855253#Comment_855253

Yep, for L7, I took a quick look at the low-end packages, and then got the Full-Feature. I suppose I could have saved money netting a cheapo or NOW, but saw no bundles, so I passed. KISS.

Now they say discounted bundles, if you bought a package ... whoopy-do. They're really tiresome, and I don't understand why. It's like they must be selling everything at a loss ... I feel really guilty buying. And the bundle guy is none too enthused too.

John Kaess

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855233#Comment_855233

I moved up to L7 mainly because I understood at the time that the Bible Browser was included in the L7 Full Feature set.

Of all the elements of the Logos 7 feature set, I was most interested in the Courses ability and the Bible Browser. I haven't made my Logos 7 purchase yet, but i am now (against all my bias about renting) leaning toward getting Logos Now instead of the full feature set, just because i see tremendous value in the Bible Browser. I recommend watching the video. In fact, I'd pay to be able to add the Bible Browser to the iPad App.

John

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855253#Comment_855253

Faithlife should have had all the base packages and topical bundles ready at launch. There was a delay in Orthodox being released, topical bundles still are not available, and as of the last time I checked (2 days ago?) Faithlife still had not responded to a thread that had been started asking if there would be a Chaplain's Library this time around. I want to know what ALL the options will be before making a decision, and that includes topical bundles, as the content/pricing of the bundles could potentially influence what base package I would select. Your move, Faithlife.

Well put. It seems to me the Logos 7 roll out has not gone as smoothly as the Logos 6 launch, If they had waited until October maybe they would have had Orthodox, Chaplains, and Topical bundles ready,

From my view point I agree it has not gone as smoothly as Logos 6 launch in regards to these aspects. But after many years of dealing with this company I am seeing them becoming less and less concerned about getting it right up front and more about just pushing it all out the as soon as they can and then correcting mistakes afterwards if there is enough complaint from customers.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855294#Comment_855294

Sure, there are some things I wish were different. And then again, maybe FL has a reasonably good balance. We want the new goodies ASAP. If FL waits till every offering is perfected, how long would we wait? And then packages and bundles and cookies just out of reach changes regularly, which is nice, I think. We get more options over time. So L7 comes out. We have lots of goodies to choose from. Then FL pops out with a few more goodies yet. They make a profit. We profit.

Why isn't everyone happier?

Signed,

Pretty Happy Camper

PS. Let's start a chant...

Chant Part 1: Bible Browser...Bible Browser...Bible Browser...

Chant Part 2: We want an interface which allows users to construct these searches without remembering or even understanding the syntax.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855327#Comment_855327

A sales associate from Faithlife reached out to tell me they had been trying to get ahold of me to talk about how Logos 7 can make my study of the Bible better. But, I haven't received calls or emails from this individual. I told them I subscribed to Logos Now and purchased Reformed Diamond, and was done with my spending plan for Logos 7.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855327#Comment_855327

Why isn't everyone happier?

The question wasn't whether we were happy with Logos 7. The question Faithlife asked in their email was why people have not purchased Logos 7. Since the email only allowed answers written by Faithlife rather than our own answers, my comments in this thread were intended to explain why I personally have not purchased 7 yet. Notice though that I said multiple times that I WANT to make a purchase. I fully intend to drink the Kool-Aid, so to speak, but I want to see what all flavors are going to be offered first. So I repeat - Faithlife, your move.

[Edit] Since I did not say it explicitly, for the record I am happy about Logos 7. There are many features I am excited about and I am looking forward to using it to help me on some projects I am working on. My happiness just has not resulted in a purchase yet, which is the subject of this thread.

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855383#Comment_855383

The question Faithlife asked in their email was why people have not purchased Logos 7. Since the email only allowed answers written by Faithlife rather than our own answers...

I received an email asking me why I had purchased Logos 7. The questions were multiple choice and had an "Other" option that allowed me to give my own answer. It is not just those who have not purchased Logos 7 who got an email.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/855396#Comment_855396

I received an email asking me why I had purchased Logos 7. The questions were multiple choice and had an "Other" option that allowed me to give my own answer.

In my original post on this thread I had said, "If I remember correctly, there was no option for 'other.'" I am willing to concede that perhaps this option was there and my memory is faulty. I attempted to look it up in the original email, but I am not being able to view the original survey, possibly because I already completed it.

Either way, the current situation is what it is. I am not angry at Faithlife, and as I have stated repeatedly I am interested in moving to Logos 7. I have been emailing back and forth with a very helpful Faithlife employee who is trying to help me sort through options, but as I wrote her this morning, depending on the contents/pricing of the topical bundles, I might get (1) a small base package and a large bundle, (2) a small base package and multiple small bundles, (3) a large base package an no bundle, or (4) some other combination. Since there has been no announcement of when the bundles will be released, I have no way of knowing if any base package I might buy now will still be within the 30-day return window if I want to exchange it for something else when the bundles are released. There has been no announcement from Faithlife about the 30 days being extended due to the situation, and I am more or less at a standstill until the bundles are finally released. They want to sell but don't know yet what they will ultimately be offering, and I want to buy but do not know for sure yet what my choices will be.