Future speed enhancement expectation
this is my first time participating in a Beta program from the start. I'm remaining mainly silent regarding the sluggishness of the beta at this point. Bob has mentioned that the beta program will result in some speed optimization of the program. Should we expect a small amount of sluggishness remain in the final release? Should we expect a mild or significant amount of speed enhancements? I can understand if Logos does not feel comfortable making predictions about a program not finished yet but to the degree that some are comfortable what should we expect?
Comments
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How old is your machine?
We do hope to optimize the product, but I can't say for sure that it'll be dramatically faster. If you've got specific areas of concern, please do post them so we can see what we can do.
Our goal is to have great performance on machines two years old and newer, and acceptable performance on machines up to five years old.
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Bob Pritchett said:
If you've got specific areas of concern, please do post them so we can see what we can do
below are my system resources. Also I have about 60 gigs free of 220. One thing I tried today with dual monitors was to have my nkjv w/ interlinear displayed set to reading mode on one and the information page in a floating window on the other. as I hovered over terms the information screen was rather sluggish at updating with information. I'll try to post other examples as I run across them. One thing I am NOT talking about is the amount of time to refresh the info on the passage guide. these are sufficiently fast for me since normally I start a guide in a transitional period of studying. But when I'm reading I want to see auxillary information more instantaneous so the flow of my reading is not broken up.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Our goal is to have great performance on machines two years old and newer, and acceptable performance on machines up to five years old.
Bob,
Have you taken into account the very large number of computers sold in the last two years that are netbooks (and the projected sale numbers for these machines)? Many of these run on lesser specs. My 1 year old netbook (EEE PC 1000 H) runs comparable to my almost 4 year old notebook (IBM thinkpad t43 - Pentium M - 1.73ghz with 1 gb ram). The notebook is now permanently tethered to my desk and functions as a desktop computer. I take the netbook with me everywhere. This is where I really value the portability of my library.
Elsewhere you are asking about the selling points of the new software. If it were optimised for these notebooks running as they do on the Intel Atom then that would be a major plus.
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I'm a bit worried about netbooks. We chose the architecture we did before netbooks came out, when it seemed a pretty safe assumption that machines were getting faster and more powerful on both the desktop and the laptop.
Some netbooks are pretty weak in areas we expect strength, because they're designed almost as Internet terminals -- just enough power to do email and surf the web. But Logos 4 is a "serious" application.
We've got some netbooks in-house, and will continue to do what optimizations we can, but they're going to be a challenge. (And possibly a good argument for being able to get to your library through "the cloud"!)0 -
Bob,
Glad to know netbooks are in the mix.
I'm not sure that most netbooks are designed as internet terminals. I think that was the case with the original EEE PC (the 700 - mine is now gathering dust), but the later models have more than enough power for all basic office tasks. Office 2007 is a "serious" application and that is the primary program for which I use my netbook. I especially use it for designing and delivering presentations with powerpoint 2007.
One of the reasons that I asked, apart from the obvious fact that I use my netbook everyday and run Libronix 3.0 on it without much problem, is that it would be great if you gave consideration to offering Libronix 4.0 on SD as you are doing for 3.0.0 -
I'm liking the "general speed" of V4 but there are certain things that are just too slow.
Example: When typing in a passage ref I get the dreaded spinning circle for MANY LONG seconds like a "hang" when really all I want to do is type john 1 5 and get on with it...
The searches are fast for the most part but I've done some searches that SHOULD have been fast that were just amazingly slow; counterintuitive; there is a thread here on the forum about that. For example: I searched an 8-term "X OR X OR X OR X" in my entire library and got half a million hits in less than 8 seconds but a simple "law OR good" in a smaller collection took almost 20 seconds....
so i'm guessing that there are specific areas to improve but the basic package is what it is...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Try to search "law OR good" without limitation to collections. Search all of Your library and I think it will be faster.
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Speed of searches looks OK to me. Sometimes even surprisingly fast. What I am bothered with is overall slower down of the performance of Logos in some moments. I think it is when many resources are opened and linked etc. I am not sure however. I will try to find out more specific info on that.
My system is:
Dell XPS 1330M, CPU
Intel Core2 Duo 2GHz2 GB RAM, 40 GB free
on the HardDiskNVidia GeForce 8400M
GS 128MBWindows Vista
Business (32) SP2 (Czech localization), IE8, using as default Firefox 3.5,
AVG8, Windows FirewallBohuslav
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Bohuslav,
You are right; how fast menus pop up and how fast right-clicks happen are important; an extra second on each thing makes you think that the program is much slower than it really is.
Just improving this issue gives the impression that the app is more responsive...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I'm liking the "general speed" of V4 but there are certain things that are just too slow.
Example: When typing in a passage ref I get the dreaded spinning circle for MANY LONG seconds like a "hang" when really all I want to do is type john 1 5 and get on with it...
The searches are fast for the most part but I've done some searches that SHOULD have been fast that were just amazingly slow; counterintuitive; there is a thread here on the forum about that. For example: I searched an 8-term "X OR X OR X OR X" in my entire library and got half a million hits in less than 8 seconds but a simple "law OR good" in a smaller collection took almost 20 seconds....
so i'm guessing that there are specific areas to improve but the basic package is what it is...
Please remember this is due to the fact that we haven't entered the optimization phase of design yet. But it's good to remind us in specific areas where these little nuisances pop-up. On my machine here at work I actually encounter temporary 'hangs' a LOT and so it will serve a good example for when we do begin optimizing. Also as Bradley mentioned in another post, not sure where, sometimes it actually takes less time to search the entire library rather than a collection, because of that index we all watched it spend hours to build [:)]
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I'm running a fairly top-of-the-line system (core i7, 6GB DDR3), and I just get bothered by the little pauses, like in the copy bible verses pane: type a text - pause, click the style button - pause while it renders the little thumbnails, select a style from the thumbnails - pause while it closes the thumbnails, etc. These are little pauses - maybe 1-2 seconds each on my machine.
I also realize that these pauses may well be related to the architecture that allows us to do so many things (like drag and drop so freely). We all want to have our cake and eat it too. So I'm not necessarily complaining - just letting you know where the sluggishness seems to show up, even on a very fast machine.
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I am also running a toshiba laptop that is less than two years old 1.73 gh, 2 gig ram, 32 bit.
I find that scrolling is "jerky" and pauses. I also find that frequently when I click on something it takes long enough to go to the next thing that I think I must have misclicked etc.
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One example of slowness. I opened a Passage guide with Word by Word added. Scrolling is VERY slow. Also, the location of the scrolling bar thingy (what do you call that - the thing that tells you how far up or down the page you are) fades out. Hate that. But anyway, scrolling is very slow. Then opened another Bible (ESV) and the IVP NT Bible Background. Dragged it over to make another pane. It literally took about five seconds from the time I let go of the mouse to the time it was on screen and available for use. Bob said in another post that they are going for the iPhone like experience. Scrolling is very un-iPhone like.
Looking forward to seeing it after optimization is done. Other betas I've used had this problem early on too only to become very fast, so here's hope.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
I'm a bit worried about netbooks. We chose the architecture we did before netbooks came out, when it seemed a pretty safe assumption that machines were getting faster and more powerful on both the desktop and the laptop.
Some netbooks are pretty weak in areas we expect strength, because they're designed almost as Internet terminals -- just enough power to do email and surf the web. But Logos 4 is a "serious" application.
We've got some netbooks in-house, and will continue to do what optimizations we can, but they're going to be a challenge. (And possibly a good argument for being able to get to your library through "the cloud"!)My netbook runs Logos without a problem (slow, but acceptable) for everything except building an index. If this could somehow be done off-site, or synced to my desktop, or only ammended-not rebuilt- when new resources are added, I don't think I'd have a problem. But I love what you're saying about integrating as much of this with "cloud computing" as possible so long as it is not exclusively cloud computing or crippled when not.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
My laptop is less than one year old. I searched for "witness" in all Bible versions in the book of Acts. The results were nice but almost unmanageable as it ran sloooowwww. Hovering over the verses to read them was painful. I certainly hope that things are optimised and not just the search speed improves.
Lenovo ThinkPad SL500
Vista Business SP2
Intel Core 2 Duo P7370 @ 2.0 GHz
3GB RAM
Intel 4500 graphics; Driver 7.15.10.1527
ThinkPad Display 1280x8000 -
I want to make it clear that my search speed is quite fast. But the overall program was extremely slow when it was not indexing. It seems a little faster today, but still a little clunky.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
For various reasons, you'll get faster searching of the whole Bible than when you limit it to Acts. (The index is of the whole Bible; asking for just Acts requires us to examine the results and filter out the non-Acts ones.)0
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Bob,
it seems like part of the issue is that there is a paradigm shift going on...
We are used to putting things in small boxes so we don't have toupend the whole large box and throw everything on the floor to search through it....but you are now saying that yes....that's the best way to search in V4!
I remember in V3 when I first said..."man! this is slow!" So i made a gazillion collections to dice up my library and got used to that mode of searching and from that point on...I could live with the searches; they were reasonable.
I'm guessing the same thing is happening here?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Bob Pritchett said:
For various reasons, you'll get faster searching of the whole Bible than when you limit it to Acts. (The index is of the whole Bible; asking for just Acts requires us to examine the results and filter out the non-Acts ones.)
I didn't mean that the search took a long time (although it did. I searched all Passages in all Bibles and after the first page displayed I clicked on the Acts 20: 25 section and it took ten seconds to display) but that when I view the results the program is very slow. If I go down the list of references and then hover over a verse to read what it says Logos4 takes up to four seconds to display the verse. I could do a sword drill with the youth group in that time and get the same results
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TomReynolds said:
...and it took ten seconds to display)
I'm all for trying to get that 10 seconds down to instant and I hope Logos is able to :-) but I feel truly blessed to be talking 10 seconds compared to the old method :-)
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EbbeAndréasson said:
Try to search "law OR good" without limitation to collections. Search all of Your library and I think it will be faster.
The original "law <op> good" search I performed was a Bible search in the New Testament over a collection of English Bibles and it took over 6 minutes. After a chat with Bradley I realised that the collection was not the issue because searching All Passages (rather than the NT) took a few seconds. Substituting Bible (which is a range of books like New Testament) produced the same result in minutes! Some optimisation is required for bible ranges, so let's avoid the easy conclusion that a Basic search over the entire library is a solution, because it also searches many non-bible resources. For the time being I'm content to search All Passages in a Bible search.
BTW, a Basic search for "law BEFORE good" took about 2 seconds whether I searched Entire Library or a collection of All But Bibles (entire library except for Bibles).
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PS. I just saw Bob's earlier reply confirming entire bible searches vs ranges of books.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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