Why is this not also featured on logos?
http://zondervanacademic.com/blog/counterpoints-software-sale-at-olive-tree-and-accordance/
I definitely understand all your frustrations. We are looking at the pre-pub program right now. I'm not giving any projections of when things might change. Yes, we've definitely not always done a good job at keeping things above pre-pub price. We've probably not aways done the best job of communicating clear expectations. We've probably not always been terribly consistent. I'm sorry for that. A major goal of our re-evaluation of the pre-pub program is to set out clear parameters, communicate them clearly with customers, and maintain consistency in how we execute the program. However, the best place to start that consistency is by consistently holding to our current policy until we intentionally role out a different one.
I definitely understand all your frustrations. We are looking at the pre-pub program right now. I'm not giving any projections of when things might change.
Yes, we've definitely not always done a good job at keeping things above pre-pub price. We've probably not aways done the best job of communicating clear expectations. We've probably not always been terribly consistent. I'm sorry for that. A major goal of our re-evaluation of the pre-pub program is to set out clear parameters, communicate them clearly with customers, and maintain consistency in how we execute the program.
However, the best place to start that consistency is by consistently holding to our current policy until we intentionally role out a different one.
This policy might be acceptable if the pre-pub prices were steals. And once upon a time, they were. But lately I skip out on pre-pubs because the price is so close to retail that it's not worth it. I'd rather spend the extra $5 and control when the money goes than save it and have the resource come through with another $1000 of pre-pubs.
I'd say, don't get hung up on your pre-pub price and policy--it isn't that great.
I definitely understand all your frustrations. We are looking at the pre-pub program right now.
Thanks Ben for the transparency, even in the face of complaints. Obviously, there are always trade-offs to consider, including consistent pricing policies, impact on profit and customer purchasing behaviors, impact on publisher licensing negotiations, etc. In general, I think that we all understand that pricing is a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface, and the details of pricing policy will continue to evolve. But on the surface, it sure looks like customers are better off by getting a low price on the Counterpoint deals.
While I'm new to the Logos/Faithlife "family", Logos does appear to be a leader in Bible software resource pricing models, and that they are diligent about providing additional value with tagging and indexing. Logos also appears to consistently ensure there are opportunities for customers to get some really good deals, even if they already have a significant investment in their library. For example, I like the way we can do incremental package purchases at great price after we establish a personal resource library.
I sure hope that "Do what's best for the customer" will always remain the dominant driver and top priority for decisions like this one. People appreciate that.
I definitely understand all your frustrations. We are looking at the pre-pub program right now. I'm not giving any projections of when things might change. Yes, we've definitely not always done a good job at keeping things above pre-pub price. We've probably not aways done the best job of communicating clear expectations. We've probably not always been terribly consistent. I'm sorry for that. A major goal of our re-evaluation of the pre-pub program is to set out clear parameters, communicate them clearly with customers, and maintain consistency in how we execute the program. However, the best place to start that consistency is by consistently holding to our current policy until we intentionally role out a different one. This policy might be acceptable if the pre-pub prices were steals. And once upon a time, they were. But lately I skip out on pre-pubs because the price is so close to retail that it's not worth it. I'd rather spend the extra $5 and control when the money goes than save it and have the resource come through with another $1000 of pre-pubs. I'd say, don't get hung up on your pre-pub price and policy--it isn't that great.
This.
I stopped paying attention to prepubs several months ago when I learned that they (a) they had no guarantee of ever coming out of pre-pub and (b) when I kept getting mails "Get in early to buy these two books, normally $74.95, at the great sale price of $67.75." And that's supposed to be the best price those books will ever be sold at (unless they're in a base package, of course)?
That seems an unwise course to lock your company into. Ben, I'd recall what Emerson said about consistency.
I wasn't planning to weigh-in on this because I don't know for sure that I would have participated in this particular sale even if it had been offered. But it's much bigger than any one particular sales event so I'll share a couple of thoughts as feedback for Faithlife.
Consistency is not even Faithlife's usual policy, right? I always took the licensing thing to be a statement of a general company value.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/50184/380033.aspx I hate policies. Policies are straight-jackets that prevent organizations from doing the right thing for individuals. Policies force organizations to treat individuals as a single, adversarial entity, rather than as people with special needs and concerns. Policies empower front-line staff to avoid listening and to shirk the responsibility of making decisions. We try to have as few policies as possible.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/50184/380033.aspx
I hate policies. Policies are straight-jackets that prevent organizations from doing the right thing for individuals. Policies force organizations to treat individuals as a single, adversarial entity, rather than as people with special needs and concerns. Policies empower front-line staff to avoid listening and to shirk the responsibility of making decisions.
We try to have as few policies as possible.
I wasn't planning to weigh-in on this because I don't know for sure that I would have participated in this particular sale even if it had been offered. But it's much bigger than any one particular sales event so I'll share a couple of thoughts as feedback for Faithlife. I think it's simply a bad business practice to say any price is the lowest price an item will ever be sold for. If the regular price and the sale price are both provided, the customer can figure out if the sale price is a modest, significant, or incredible deal. I don't recall ever reading before that pre-pub prices are the lowest prices items will ever sell for, so that concept was completely off my radar screen. But if that has been the stated Faithlife polcy, I would encourage Faithlife to change it. I also have to agree with others who have indicated they have been underwhelmed by pre-pub pricing, and because (in my opinion) the price reductions are so minimal, I have never been motivated by them to buy a resource I wouldn't have bought at the regular price. From my perspective as a customer, I don't ever want Faithlife to withhold a sale offered by a publisher. If the sale is within 30 days of my purchase, Faithlife already provides a means for me to get the sale price. If it's beyond the 30 days, then sure I'd be disappointed--maybe even upset-- and if it was a really great sale and only a few days beyond the standard 30 since my purchase, I might check with Faithlife just to see if they would be so gracious as to still give me the sale price. But unless Faithlife had convinced me to buy it because it would never sell for less, I have no reason to be upset with Faithlife just because I bought it at a higher price.
[Y]
Something is being overlooked in the discussion of pre-pub pricing and the guarantee of lowest price.
The pre-pub price is not a pre-release sale price. It is a price FL sets to see if they can gather enough commitments to make producing the product financially worthwhile. When they do, it is produced. When they don't, it isn't.
This makes those who opt-in to the pre-pub partners with FL in producing the resource (FL has even used language like this in the past to describe the pre-pub program). To reward that partnership, and to provide motivation to become a partner, FL has, in the past, given a low price guarantee.
As an active participant in many past pre-pubs I would not be happy to see a greatly reduced price given after the resource is produced, unless the terms are changed. I would probably still participate in pre-pubs if my price was the best offered for some period of time after the item was released. Two years would probably be the minimum I'd find acceptable.
FL can kill or do harm to the pre-pub program if they are not careful. They know that. That would hurt all of us. They need to continue to reward those who support the program so that financially feasible products can continue to be produced. That benefits the Logos ecosystem whether we were around when the 'good' price was available or not.
I agree with most of what you are saying Mark if the pricing and sales applies to Logos discounting a product on their own. BUT if a publisher chooses to put a product on sale on their own I feel logos should offer that sale to its customers on the thought that it isn't them offering the discount but the publisher. You also have to factor in new customers. I didn't start using Logos until mid-cycle of Logos 6. Are you saying that all new customers should lose out on great deals for 2 years because you saved 15% on a product?
Something is being overlooked in the discussion of pre-pub pricing and the guarantee of lowest price. The pre-pub price is not a pre-release sale price. It is a price FL sets to see if they can gather enough commitments to make producing the product financially worthwhile. When they do, it is produced. When they don't, it isn't. This makes those who opt-in to the pre-pub partners with FL in producing the resource (FL has even used language like this in the past to describe the pre-pub program). To reward that partnership, and to provide motivation to become a partner, FL has, in the past, given a low price guarantee. As an active participant in many past pre-pubs I would not be happy to see a greatly reduced price given after the resource is produced, unless the terms are changed. I would probably still participate in pre-pubs if my price was the best offered for some period of time after the item was released. Two years would probably be the minimum I'd find acceptable. FL can kill or do harm to the pre-pub program if they are not careful. They know that. That would hurt all of us. They need to continue to reward those who support the program so that financially feasible products can continue to be produced. That benefits the Logos ecosystem whether we were around when the 'good' price was available or not.
I'm far less likely to back pre-pubs now that I know this is the practice. It seems petty and unpleasant to me to say that a sale which the publisher is endorsing and other companies are providing must be withheld from Logos customers because they worry about upsetting backers - I don't want to be a backer if that's what they think of us. I buy books to learn and hopefully spread truth. I buy prepubs to help get books produced toward that end. I don't want my purchase to be used as a motive to prevent the greater spread of it.
I feel as though this is one of many times that Logos simply does not hear their customers.
I am not sure how it would work accounting wise, but what if one the "benefits" of ordering on prepub was that for a certain period of time after purchase (maybe a year or two) if the product was to go on a publisher sale, prepub purchasers would be able to get a logos credit for the difference in price.
That would encourage prepub buyers (it makes no difference how low the publishers price is if it is not offered in Logos to begin with) and still allow for publisher sales.
The benefit of prepub would then be locking in the lowest price for a longer period of time. That makes the "low price guarantee" not that the resource will never have a lower price, but that prepub purchasers can always get it at the lowest price.
Granted there might be issue with Logos losing money with a greatly reduced price, but that could possibly be offset with the larger number of buyers participating in a publisher sale.
I know this is not really a new idea. Just pulling some different pieces together in my own thinking.
FL can kill or do harm to the pre-pub program if they are not careful.
And FL can do harm to their customer base by not passing on publisher sales.
I'd rather cut off my hand and not do any business with FL, than take part in a dishonorable partnership that would show partiality to us, yet restrict others from some future sale.
They need to continue to reward those who support the program so that financially feasible products can continue to be produced.
As for a reward, it's that the product was produced. If some further "reward" is that no one else will pay less than you or I (for 2 years), then why should our eyes be on what someone else pays, rather then the product itself that everyone should benefit from?
I don't go around thinking, "Oh, I partnered with FL on that pre-pub and now they sold it to someone else for less than what I paid to help produce it. I'll never partner with them again." Can't we simply give thanks, in all circumstances, instead of being envious, jealous, or resentful that someone else might get a better deal than us, down the road?
I am not sure how it would work accounting wise, but what if one the "benefits" of ordering on prepub was that for a certain period of time after purchase (maybe a year or two) if the product was to go on a publisher sale, prepub purchasers would be able to get a logos credit for the difference in price. That would encourage prepub buyers (it makes no difference how low the publishers price is if it is not offered in Logos to begin with) and still allow for publisher sales. The benefit of prepub would then be locking in the lowest price for a longer period of time. That makes the "low price guarantee" not that the resource will never have a lower price, but that prepub purchasers can always get it at the lowest price. Granted there might be issue with Logos losing money with a greatly reduced price, but that could possibly be offset with the larger number of buyers participating in a publisher sale. I know this is not really a new idea. Just pulling some different pieces together in my own thinking.
I like this idea a lot. If you make it two years, you balance it by requiring people to e-mail in their order number for the credit, instead of giving it automatically. That probably reduces the hit considerably.
They need to continue to reward those who support the program so that financially feasible products can continue to be produced. Do you think that the pre-pub program would be harmed, if FL did what is pleasing to God?
Do you think that the pre-pub program would be harmed, if FL did what is pleasing to God?
I'd encourage you to be careful ascribing a particular action here as the one that's pleasing to God. FL is attempting to honor their word to pre-pub customers. Lying would definitely not be pleasing to God, and while you and I would prefer a different pre-pub policy, there isn't a single right one.
Thank you for that correction. I've edited my post.
Can't we simply give thanks, in all circumstances, instead of being envious, jealous, or resentful that someone else might get a better deal than us, down the road?
I hope that you are not ascribing any of those negative feelings to me.
Pardon me, but this seems a rather selfish attitude. I want to be rewarded for "partnering with Fl," and I will resent anyone else getting a good price. If that is not what you meant—it is still how it reads.
Mark...that is selfish of you for not wanting others to get a good deal
No, I am not. I respect you, Mark.
If we need some long-term guarantee or "reward" to protect us from potentially thinking worse about a purchase, solely based on the risk of a sale in the future, then we are unnaturally complicating things by injecting rationalization and cognitive bias into the system to protect our sense of having made a good purchase.
I believe that each transaction is actually independent from any other transaction, and should be solely based on its own merit. I can't envision why the system should be harmed or die, given some nebulous chance that we might stop feeling good about a purchase, start feeling bad about it, and then project that feeling on future transactions.
Perhaps I'm overly simplistic in my view of pre-pub, but it doesn't seem to be any different from any other type of transaction I may want to make. If I want the item, and the item is offered at a good price, then I'm going buy it. If someone else pays less down the road, am I going to suddenly change my mind and decide that it wasn't a good price at the time?
I think we are better served by removing any notion that either
I'd just like to see us not being susceptible to any secular philosophy, especially when the resources we buy could spiritually benefit us all as believers.
Pardon me, but this seems a rather selfish attitude.
My friend, Jack, I am amazed at you and others attributing selfishness so quickly.
I didn't say I wanted to be rewarded for partnering with FL, that was what FL said. I participated with that as the understanding. That meant making sacrifices in order to save money in the long run.
Now, I (and all others who participated) was given assurance that by participating in a pre-pub that I would be getting the best price ever. I fail to see how it is selfish to expect that that will in fact be the case. Since it was a promise, I would be unhappy with FL breaking their promise, at least, as I mentioned, soon after a pre-pub was released, no matter what the reason was.
I do want FL to hold to the spirit of their promises made in the past. As I said, I am willing to let FL have some wiggle room with past promises.
I understand the desire for sale prices when publishers offer them. Somehow FL needs to address this, but they must be careful that they can maintain the pre-pub program in the future. (As far as I am concerned they can assert NO price promise in the future if they want. I will be free to choose to participate or not at that point.)
I wonder if in every case Pre-pub would be better replaced with Community Pricing--and overall get better results. That would solve the problem.
The price promise has not been on the marketing since 2010, based on Rosie's comments here (but see here). I remember it going away, but can't remember when. They ultimately decided to offer a lower price than pre-pub here last March.
I know that FL made an exception earlier this year. I was in on the thread where Rosie made her observation. However, as Ben's comments indicate, FL clearly hasn't yet adopted a new policy and is still functioning largely as if the promise is in place. The Counterpoints series is of no concern to me as I did not get in on the pre-pub, but I understand if FL chooses not to offer it for the reasons they have stated.
It blows my mind that anyone would think it was a good idea to make the promise. Expecting a company to honour their promise is fine, but the promise itself seems abhorrent to me.
It obviously means that there's another warning to throw out before I can recommend the app, it drastically changes my attitude to supporting prepubs (I can't work out how to justify them now - I thought I was helping people get books by making them available, but it turns out I'm helping to make them less obtainable), it makes me far more likely to invest in Accordance or Olive Tree instead of Logos and it just infuriates me.
I'm sure glad I did not place a pre-pub for the Bible knowledge background commentary since it was included in a starter base package at a way cheaper price even though it just released a few months back HAHAHA (Hysterical laugh lol). There, I just finished killing the flawed honor system for the prepub program. It's time for a change the sooner the better!
DAL
Ps. One last stump on the head of the prepub honor system just for good measure: I'm glad I did not place a prepub order for the Bob Utley's commentaries in Spanish because a few days later they were included in my L7 Spanish Base Package upgrade along with other cool recent prepubs!
Note: I will continue to use the prepub system/program if I need something, but please, do away with this senseless straight jacket policy that as you can see is not providing a positive vibe.
Thank you!
R.I.P. Prepub honor policy, you just got mauled and devoured by a flawless execution!
Wow, we all should've been actors, we sure can bring a lot of drama to the scene hehehe 😜😁👌👍🤘
After Logos 7 came out, I have been disappointed by how many pre-pub and community pricing books I got were included in base packages. If I had known, I would not have bought. I have canceled many pre-pubs and community pricing products recently because of this.
I remember a thread about the companion to the Septuagint that was steal compared to other places, and here it is, less than a year later in Lutheran Silver for next to nothing.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/125553/818389.aspx#818389
That being said, I am much more upset with Logos for an extremely inconsistent policy and withholding publisher sales out of a sense of duty discounting other products at will with no explanation.
If I buy a pre-pub, it is because I wanted the book ASAP and I will willing to pay the price. Logos makes its money when people need a book and pay full price for it. I prefer sales, but sometimes I pay the price for something I really need. I have no regrets.A six month window for pre-pubs is acceptable to me, but no more. If you do more than a year, you might as well never have sales on anything.
Just my two cents.
I suspect a conspiracy. But have no facts, so no problem. Prepubs are caught between a rock and hardplace.
If the PP price is low ( and unlikely to ever be lower), then the PP sits forever in a state of PP-shock. Unless really popular ... low-hanging fruit.
If the PP price is higher (but still advantageous), the PP has a chance to escape PP-land. But run headlong into later sales.
Finally, PP's are generally royalty-based, insuring not a whole lot of maneuvering room.
And lastly (after finally), there's the curiousity of why many resources escape PP-land entirely. There's a get-out-of-jail-card somewhere in play.
-
I accidentally left out the other curiousity, where CP and PP fail to deliver 'the goods' for upcoming packages. So, the whole thing gets thrown under the bus, in favor of something to sell.
The price promise has not been on the marketing since 2010, based on Rosie's comments here (but see here). I remember it going away, but can't remember when. They ultimately decided to offer a lower price than pre-pub here last March. I know that FL made an exception earlier this year. I was in on the thread where Rosie made her observation. However, as Ben's comments indicate, FL clearly hasn't yet adopted a new policy and is still functioning largely as if the promise is in place. The Counterpoints series is of no concern to me as I did not get in on the pre-pub, but I understand if FL chooses not to offer it for the reasons they have stated.
I just mean that it is misleading to say they are keeping a promise, which has never been made for some of the resources in question, because it hasn't been actually made in six years.
1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.
Thanks for all your feedback. For those of you who purchased the whole set and are concerned, you can rest assured that we intend to protect the value of your purchase. We are experimenting with offering individual volumes as a tool to get people into the whole set (and we're open to reevaluating that decision). However, individual volumes will be priced much higher. So buying the set on Pre-Pub will still have been the best value for getting this set.
For those interested, the most recent volume on Hell is $3.99 in Vyrso.
https://vyrso.com/product/53891/four-views-on-hell
Nice! I snagged that one
1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program. Thanks for all your feedback. For those of you who purchased the whole set and are concerned, you can rest assured that we intend to protect the value of your purchase. We are experimenting with offering individual volumes as a tool to get people into the whole set (and we're open to reevaluating that decision). However, individual volumes will be priced much higher. So buying the set on Pre-Pub will still have been the best value for getting this set.
Some dates fort those comments would help those participating in this thread to understand.
For those interested, the most recent volume on Hell is $3.99 in Vyrso. https://vyrso.com/product/53891/four-views-on-hell
It comes with the first edition too!
For those interested, the most recent volume on Hell is $3.99 in Vyrso. https://vyrso.com/product/53891/four-views-on-hell It comes with the first edition too!
Two for one! And no Pre-Pub price worries!
That's the consolation price for all this trouble.
I only got one edition. Did you have the first edition from a previous purchase?
It's one volume with both editions. Check the contents.
Yeah I only thought it was the second but when you look at the contents the first is after the second.
Very well hidden! [:D]
I wonder if I overlooked any other books in the past...
Let's hope this one makes it into Logos at some point.
FWIW, the recently posted Black Friday Sale has the Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry and Writings and Dictionary of the Old Testament: Prophets for $23.99/ea!! This is significantly lower than what I paid on pre-pub.
If Faithlife can discount those two dictionaries below pre-pub price in the midst of the present conversation, why cant they do the same for the Counterpoint series?
John,
Thanks for pointing this out. I included this volume in error. It has now been removed from the sale.My apologies for the mistake.
FWIW, the recently posted Black Friday Sale has the Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry and Writings and Dictionary of the Old Testament: Prophets for $23.99/ea!! This is significantly lower than what I paid on pre-pub. If Faithlife can discount those two dictionaries below pre-pub price in the midst of the present conversation, why cant they do the same for the Counterpoint series?
It's a legitimate problem.
I feel bad John, but FL has already been offering the entire collection for $27.50 per volume as a part of the L7 upgrade offers. That per-volume price amounts to a 46% discount, compared to the current 60% Black Friday discount.
The pre-pub "lowest price promise" is regularly undercut by bundles and base packages. Some may say that's comparing apples to oranges, but I think the nature of this business is that whatever individual book is in pre-pub today will probably end up at a cheaper price down the road, after it gets bundled.
Faithlife needs a constant stream of new products to be able to continue to offer new bundles and base packages for L8, L9, etc.
In that sense, pre-pub probably has a more important role to ensure a future base package revenue stream, and a less important role to get new material into peoples' hands today. In general, anytime we can wait, a better offer will eventually surface, yet that makes it difficult to get items into production. I don't envy FL in trying to keep everyone happy.
Stop whining!!! Those came out of prepub a long time ago. Geez, really? I hate it when people start whining like spoiled little brats about everything! "oh, how come they are getting it cheaper? Boo hoo 😭 Whiner!
ps. I supposed you'll whine about this one too! (see pic below). Freaking Faithlife NEEDS TO GET AFTER IT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS FREAKING NONE SENSE. GET IT RESOLVED AND STOP DANCING AROUND FREAKING PROMISES YOU CANNOT KEEP! HOW MUCH WHINING YOU HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT THE SAME CRAP TO ACTUALLY START DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
I think you misread the comment. Seemed to me like it was saying the opposite
John, Thanks for pointing this out. I included this volume in error. It has now been removed from the sale.My apologies for the mistake.
How many times are you going to be making the same stupid mistake and apologizing for it? seriously, man! I'm starting to get sick of Faithlife's inconsistency on this very freaking OLD ISSUE! GET IT FIXED!
Who do we have to talk to to get this mess resolved, because obviously Bob and every other faithlife employee that posts here is not doing anything about it. GET IT RESOLVED!
EXTREMELY ANNOYED CUSTOMER!
SAME DARN THING, FL NEEDS TO JUMP ON IT FAST. THIS WHOLE CRAP IS GETTING ANNOYING!
More and more trivial annoyances accumulate into greater customer dissatisfaction.
In regard to this matter, will FL have a policy in place for 1/1/2017, or will they put off determining this new policy until some point in 2017?
When FL doesn't have the time or manpower to deal with issues that go back months or years, and you discover that others have posted about the same thing in the past, it does demand a lot of patience and faith and hope that they will actually fix the problem sooner, rather than later or never.
Personally, I have a lot invested in pre-pub Mobile Ed. (I don't care if anyone can buy a course for less than my pre-pub price. I already feel blessed, and God bless them!) My biggest concern is that there would be no advance notice, if the company went out of business, and any videos streamed from the internet would be gone. Whatever the reason, people just would like assurances, as we've individually poured money into the company and Logos libraries, and many of us are "locked in" at this point, yet possibly disillusioned too with a growing number of issues that remain unresolved.
It would be nice if FL had a social manager who responded to community posts, and kept track of what was being done. Right now, it's more of a black hole where FL either doesn't reply, or mentions that they will get to it when they can. Either way, it's unpleasant being in the dark.
Frankly, having bought Logos, it has revealed areas in my life where I need surrender my cares to God, be less anxious, and simply be more thankful. I used to think I was extremely patient, but I've apparently never had to deal with smoldering dissatisfaction with a company such as FL.
How many times are you going to be making the same stupid mistake and apologizing for it? seriously, man!
People are human. Mistake happen. And I doubt anyone at FL is stupid.
Thank goodness, God's mercies are new every morning. He continues to forgive us for the countless times we've stumbled.
How great is the Lord.
Let's be careful not throw FL into prison for a smaller debt, when the King forgave us a much greater debt.
I agree with you PetahChristian, but when you get emails about Bob posting on tweeter you kind wonder where his priorities are. I get them almost every day. Don't get me wrong, the man has a life other than his company, but hey, there are on going issues that are upsetting customers, and those should've been dealt with and resolved a long time ago.
How many times are you going to be making the same stupid mistake and apologizing for it? seriously, man! People are human. Mistake happen. And I doubt anyone at FL is stupid. Thank goodness, God's mercies are new every morning. He continues to forgive us for the countless times we've stumbled. How great is the Lord. Let's be careful not throw FL into prison for a smaller debt, when the King forgave us a much greater debt.
Nobody in Faithlife is stupid, but their mistakes are...and they know exactly what they're doing playing the same card over and over. But anyway, thanks for your positive comments And pardon mine since they are not so positive.
