Another extended full feature set, really?

SteveHD said:

I think this compares them and I like what I see. https://www.logos.com/compare/feature-sets Thanks for pointing this out. Very small sample of new to me items. To be fair I have not bought a feature set yet so maybe I am seeing more new stuff in the extended set table than you are.

The Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible Dataset
The Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Dataset 
T&T Clark Studies in Biblical Theology and Theological Interpretation (4 vols.)

Agreed. The inclusion of the Lexham Discourse Bible makes that an attractive product, depending on your dynamic pricing for it.

Retail value of 'new to me' was $2100 ... I added up, and $700-ish. Not even close. And a price tag of $160 for Easton, Holman starter volumes, some high definition this and that, plus Bible browser. I think Bible Browser, maybe not ... the compare page includes it, the buy page doesn't. 

I sure don't want to run the refund gauntlet to find out.  Pass.

BTW, the old greek versions ... Westcott, Shrivener, etc that now have '2.0' show 'new to me' even though I have them. The '2.0' remains a mystery for which I don't propose to pay.

Denise said:

Retail value of 'new to me' was $2100 ... I added up, and $700-ish. Not even close

That's an unfortunate issue with collections in a collection pricing.

Looking through the list of new-to-me books, I spotted A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew: Revised English Edition, which regularly is $75.

Sorry for the multiple posts in rapid succession, but what is the difference between The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent and The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent (Text Only)? Both are included in this, and I can't tell from the product page what the difference is. Thanks. 

I can buy the extended set for $195 but it appears I already have the extended set.  I have the "unowned" items in my library.

Heads up that the discount on this set has increased. If you were on the fence, you may find that it is a much better deal now.

If FL hadn't put this package together, I'd still have several resources on my wish list that I wouldn't own now. Thanks, FL!

I'd guess it was changed within the last hour or so. It is an additional savings for Logos Now members. I don't know if the correction would have also affected the price for non-members.

With the improved discount, I saved an additional $80. If you're not an LN member, the $99 membership cost minus your additional savings on this feature set might reduce your membership cost to under $20 for one year. That's a great deal, considering all the benefits that come with membership!

If you're interested, a sales rep could work out the pricing both ways, and let you know your exact savings.

I think a new level feature set is a good thing.  Its a good business decision. There are ways FL does things I don't like and I am upfront and honest about them, but I am honest because I want them to remain in business so I want them to become more customer centric in the way they do things.  And I will point out where I believe they are getting it right,  This is one of those decisions I think they have got right despite the potential confusion over naming - maybe Starter and Extended Feature sets could be rename as follows:

Starter Scarcity Feature Set

Full Feature Set 

Extended  Abundance Feature Set 

When I look at my dynamic pricing, the Extended Feature Set is certainly not a cash grab, it just comes down to what you already own in your resources (books + features) you already own. For me that means I'm getting more (ownership) for less if I decide to purchase now.

With the increased discount my price only dropped $5.07. Better than nothing, I suppose. Still not buying at $153.04, or at least until some of the questions on this thread get answered.

I think the discourse datasets are the real pulls. I have most everything else. I've been trying to get through the month mostly without purchasing anything. My resistance is slipping [8-|]

Scot Wright said:

I have been a Logos User since 1992 and speaking for myself I have never been more confused about pricing and product. It just isn't clear to me what I'm getting and what the value is. I'm slow on the uptake anyways but I'm getting lost in all this. What does 2.0 mean anyway? Where do find out what that means? Like Denise, I'm very hesitant to purchase or be interested in items that seem to not make any sense. 

I have been a user since about 1995 and I agree with Scot. I am confused. I bought the full feature set a few months ago, o no wait, I bought the almost full feature set since I could not have some features (like the Bible Browser which was only for Logos Now users). Now I discover that my Almost Full Feature Set was actually a semi-full feature set and I have to pay more to get the real full feature set.  Ironically I cannot see any tools or features that is new or weren't already available when I bought my semi-full feature set a few months ago. Why did Logos call it the Full Feature set to begin with?

Matthew said:

The Bible Browser Tool is a now officially listed as a feature by the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set.

So... if "every feature of Logos 7" is included in the Logos 7 Full Feature Set, and the Bible Browser Tool is a feature of Logos 7, then come Monday Faithlife will be giving me the Bible Browser Tool for free since I already bought the Logos 7 Full Feature Set?

All (semi-)joking aside, the messaging had previously been that things such as the Bible Browser Tool and Lexham Discourse Datasets were not included in the Logos 7 Full Feature Set because they were not part of Logos 7 and were exclusive to Logos Now. I seem to recall many people on the forums buying Logos Now specifically for these "exclusives." We will probably have to wait until Monday to hear how Faithlife chooses to address the situation.

Yes, I was a bit unhappy about the way Logos handled the situation previously.But I cannot see how FaithLife will add this for those who bought the full feature set. O well, at least I own a semi-full feature set [:P]

BKMitchell said:

Gao Lu said:

You will buy.  Everyone will buy.  When people discover a red X on their about page--they will buy.

After reading the above

I discovered three red x's on my about page and yet I own a feature set. 

I have a very proud green dot next to my "FULL Feature Set"

Matthew said:

... but Faithlife's employees are definitely among us, silently reading this thread and making changes behind the scenes... 

I guess Westcott is worth $2.50 in the 21st century. And another $2.50 for Shriveners. My price dropped $5.

 It reminds me of a darkened used book store where yesterday's hopes are today's dust (price-wise). 

Matthew said:

Sarel Slabbert said:

I am confused. I bought the full feature set a few months ago, o no wait, I bought the almost full feature set since I could not have some features (like the Bible Browser which was only for Logos Now users). Now I discover that my Almost Full Feature Set was actually a semi-full feature set and I have to pay more to get the real full feature set.

The product page for the Logos 7 Full Feature Set says, "This collection of Bible study tools, resources, and media includes every feature of Logos 7."

The Bible Browser Tool is a now officially listed as a feature by the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set.

So... if "every feature of Logos 7" is included in the Logos 7 Full Feature Set, and the Bible Browser Tool is a feature of Logos 7, then come Monday Faithlife will be giving me the Bible Browser Tool for free since I already bought the Logos 7 Full Feature Set?

All (semi-)joking aside, the messaging had previously been that things such as the Bible Browser Tool and Lexham Discourse Datasets were not included in the Logos 7 Full Feature Set because they were not part of Logos 7 and were exclusive to Logos Now. I seem to recall many people on the forums buying Logos Now specifically for these "exclusives." We will probably have to wait until Monday to hear how Faithlife chooses to address the situation.

Thanks Matthew for pointing this out!

Logos continues nurturing their tarnished image with dishonest sales tactics. Thousands of people purchased the "full feature set" that included "every fearure of Logos 7." The new extended feature set is bloated with outdated, library cluttering, public domain books. Logos uses this tactic to generate value to an upgrade that only includes (for me) the addition of three data sets and the Bible browser tool.

I also noticed two books that I already own under "new to you." They are the Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible: Glossary and the Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible: Introduction. 

alabama24 said:

Into Grace said:

I also noticed two books that I already own under "new to you." They are the Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible: Glossary and the Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible: Introduction. 

Are you sure that you own them? I have them, presumably from Logos Now... but they are "temporary" licenses and I don't own them. 

Good point, Alabama 😊. I have them in the Logos IOS app (have not checked my desktop). It's possible I don't own them because I have Logos Now.

Ted Weis said:

So if this non-Now-not-a-subscriber upgrades to Silver 7 or Platinum 7, what "full feature" data set do I get? A "regular" set, "full" set, or "extended" set?

I am thoroughly confused...

You get the Full Feature Set as part of those base packages. You can confirm that by putting any of those base packages in your cart. You'd see the library as one cart item, and the full feature set as the second cart item.

The Extended Feature Set is not a part of any base package.

mab said:

I think the discourse datasets are the real pulls. I have most everything else. I've been trying to get through the month mostly without purchasing anything. My resistance is slipping 

I already own the discourse datasets. The only feature I would have liked is the Bible Browser, but not at $108.

Sarel Slabbert said:

The only feature I would have liked is the Bible Browser, but not at $108.

That is kind of where I am. I can spend just over $150 for the extended feature set by itself or just over $110 if bundled with a $90 base package. Frankly, I think the Bible Browser Tool should be included in the full feature set. I think what Faithlife has done here not only makes them look bad but also sets a precedent and that I don't really want to support/encourage.

Kiyah said:

There are not that many actual features in the "extended" "feature" set.

I think that's the point. The extended feature set is meant to add resources to the features in order to populate all of Logos guides and tools. The added features are a bonus. Logos 6 did the same thing (Core cross-grade, full feature cross-grade, extended cross-grade) with the same organization and the same goals. This isn't something new. That they threw in a new feature is just a bonus incentive. The Bible Browser is part of Logos Now for version 7. Without this release it would not have trickled down to pay-to-own until possibly version 8. It's a good thing to see Now features trickling down to pay-to-own, and necessary. Whether the resources are worth purchasing in this optional extended upgrade are worth the price is up to each individual, but I don't personally see anything objectionable about it.

Randy W. Sims said:

Kiyah said:

There are not that many actual features in the "extended" "feature" set.

I think that's the point. The extended feature set is meant to add resources to the features in order to populate all of Logos guides and tools. The added features are a bonus. Logos 6 did the same thing (Core cross-grade, full feature cross-grade, extended cross-grade) with the same organization and the same goals. This isn't something new. That they threw in a new feature is just a bonus incentive. The Bible Browser is part of Logos Now for version 7. Without this release it would not have trickled down to pay-to-own until possibly version 8. It's a good thing to see Now features trickling down to pay-to-own, and necessary. Whether the resources are worth purchasing in this optional extended upgrade are worth the price is up to each individual, but I don't personally see anything objectionable about it.

Well said.

Matthew said:

Randy W. Sims said:

I don't personally see anything objectionable about it.

The objection is not that it is being made available to purchase. The objection is that Faithlife sold customers a "full feature set" that was advertised to contain "every feature of Logos 7" and is now essentially saying customers have to pay over $100 more to obtain the very thing they were told they had already bought - "every feature of Logos 7." Also, many people subscribed to Logos Now because they had been told that was the only way to access certain features. If I had paid money to rent something I would lose after a year because I was told I could not buy it, and then almost immediately afterward I found out I could have put that money toward buying it anyway, I would have some questions. 

At the outset, these were Logos Now features rather than Logos 7 features, so the blurb was accurate when it was written. If they stood by that decision and restricted these features to subscribers, then this criticism is unmerited, but then Faithlife gets complaints from people who (for various reasons) can't justify taking out a subscription. I think the wording should be changed (if it hasn't changed already - I've not looked), but I think it's a positive move to make these features available to more people, and I certainly don't object to them charging for their efforts.