A question for my Catholic friends?

Two books that have been recommended over and over again.
Two books that Logos is / has been working on adding to Logos
But no word (yet)

As a preliminary step (and I know it's a far removed step), would you recommend the viewing of any of the videos on YouTube of the Mass?

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=catholic+mass%2C+long&lclk=long/a

fgh said:

Not that I've looked at any of them, but if you've never been to Mass, I would rather recommend avoiding them.

Maybe this is partly a Swedish vs American mentality thing, but I've got to disagree with the recommendation for Q&A type resources. Generations of people forced to memorize Luther's Small Catechism with corresponding Swedish 'catechism explanations' -- and being questioned on them at least once a year -- have made that kind of resource essentially dead over here. In our collective memory it stands for the horror of all horrors, the beacon of everything that's bad with religion.

But at least Lutheran theology is somewhat suitable for that didactical method. To force Catholicism into a similar straitjacket of simple questions and simple answers seems to me borderline criminal. It's like giving people a book about the technical properties of carbon instead of showing them a diamond. Like giving them a black and white photo instead of a multicolour multidimensional reality.

The whole idea with Catholicism is that it's catholic. It includes the whole. As soon as you start to reduce it, it gets less Catholic. And if, on top of that, your reduction leads to overemphasizing some aspects over others -- as almost inevitably happens -- then you've already taken the first step towards heresy. 

To understand Catholicism, don't think 'road', think 'seed'. You can't really get there by taking one step at a time, studying one issue at a time. They're far too interrelated. You need to get 'inside the seed' and see the whole picture at once, even if it overwhelms you at first. And then you need to follow the seed as it grows, increasing your understanding of the whole in parallel with your understanding of the details. Hence the recommendations to start with Mass. Think of it a bit like looking at the night sky. First you may believe it's nothing but a dark bowl with some yellow dots on it, but the more you study it, the more vast, and the more complex, it turns out to be.

Maybe I'm just prejudiced, and maybe those books are indeed good enough to be used in a youth group or an RCIA program -- though even then I can't help feeling that you'd need a very good teacher not to end up with the kind of Catholics who can quote all the 'right' answers but don't really understand Catholicism -- but personally I'd never recommend a Q&A book to someone studying Catholicism on his own. Not if he expressed a wish to understand.

fgh said:

Can you do that in a Catholic church in the US? I can almost promise that in a church here -- Catholic or Lutheran -- people would find that extremely weird. And many, perhaps most, would be offended and see it as borderline sacrilegious.

Good point. I should have qualified my statement regarding my not-so-smart 'Logos in the pews' advise: fiddling with an iphone (or anything other than a missal for that manner) in a Catholic church is strongly not recommended unless you're discrete enough to be unnoticed. The parish I go to (in Canada by the way) has some pews in the upper 'choir' mezzanine in the back of the church that no one will even notice that you're there.

With that, please let me re-emphasize my initial recommendation:

Sleiman said:

go with the intention to participate as much as you could. For this end, you might want to fight the temptation to sit at the back of the church where hearing and seeing may not be as good. I suggest a few benches from the front

Speaking of which and by the way, I'm new around here - is there a Catholic discussion group/thread, et?  

Sleiman said:

While I see when Q&A resources can be counterproductive, I still think they have great potential to being extremely helpful.

I think the issue here is that the OP may know next to nothing about Catholicism, may never have been to Mass (or even to a liturgical church, for that matter), may move on to other studies fairly soon, and may have intended to do it all on his own. Under those circumstances I fear that a Q&A book would leave the him with an impression of Catholicism that doesn't have all that much to do with reality. If you don't understand the Mass, and if you don't understand what the Mass means in the life of the Church, then you don't, and can't, understand Catholicism. 

Your situation was, presumably, much different.

Francis said:

I found this website quite telling: http://www.catholicscomehome.org/

How?  What does it tell thee?  

MJ. Smith said:

Francis said:

I found this website quite telling

I suspect Catholics and Jews are among the few groups in which someone will describe themselves as second-generation non-practicing

That is true - which is one reason I was  a bit concerned about an unqualified lex orandi, lex credendi. Those 2nd generation non-practicing Catholics you speak of are hardly NORMATIVE Catholicism.

Now, just to be clear, this is coming from a Lutheran who finds our worship/Mass quite similar - so similar we have to talk a bit about dogmatics.  It is certainly true that in Catholicism prayer and belief influence each other.  It is certainly true that the dogmas in many ways come to life in worship in a way that (most?) Protestants don't understand.  This is admittedly one of the first things Protestants should understand about Rome.

But Rome has clearly said that the law of prayer does have to be normed by the faith of the church too. (I suppose I should look up the specific encyclicals.  Domine Jesu comes to mind, but also some of Pius XII's about the growing liturgical movement...)

Another thing that we outsiders need to know is that Rome is not a monolithic body where everyone agrees on everything.  There are intense theological debates within Rome that last for Centuries.  They put with each other in Love (as Ephesians puts it) because they know that Jesus is the lord of History and so they have the time to work it out.  And so just about every official document tries to reflect this balance and debate, in a way that is quite difficult for us outsiders to understand.

SDG

Ken McGuire

Great, another religious post

Holy Spirit of Christ destroys the lie intellectuals. The many religions unite in the biggest misconception. Get off my people. Trinity falls to the ground before a thus saith the Lord. But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man the woman's head; and God the head of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11: 3. Trinitarians say that Jesus is in heaven and has another person in his place here on earth. What did is in the land is the Holy Spirit of Jesus. Check it out. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2: 5. I stand at the door and knock; If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I with them. Matthew 18:20. And when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to me. John 12:32. God has never been seen by anyone. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he said. John 1:18. For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead; Colossians 2: 9. For it pleased the Father that all fulness dwell; Colossians 1:19. He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens to fill all things. Ephesians 4:10. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28. --- Bloodshed One was Jesus Christ. But to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and for whom we live; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by him. I Corinthian 8: 6.  --- Preaching Trinity is not recognizing the Yashua (Jesus) as the only and all-sufficient Savior to believe that. He denied that he lived as a man to save man. It deny His dual nature, being man He is also God. You need a 3rd Person? Jesus is not all enough? Or just want to be the arm of the Catholic church? For now, the church, the manifold wisdom of God may be known to the rulers and authorities in heaven, Ephesians 3:10. And coming up Jesus spoke to them, saying: It is given to me all authority in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28:18. But for those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1 Corinthians 1:24. Examine yourselves to yourselves, be in the faith; Prove yourselves to yourselves. Know ye not yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? If it is not that you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13: 5. Then comes the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God the Father, and when put down all rule and all authority and power. It must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet. Now, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Because all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15: 24-28 .Because I know this to my salvation through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, Philippians 1:19. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, it is none of his. Romans 8: 9. Searching what time or what time of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ had come, and the glory that should follow them. 1 Peter 1:11. I said (Lord) to my (Lord): Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Psalms 110: 1 --- Only time appearing two names together. (Jehovah and Adonai) Duplicated in the NT. Father and the Lamb. Father and the Son. In Revelation we no longer see the Holy Spirit. God has this power to give and withhold His Spirit. Holy Spirit is a Divine attribute is in the Father and the Son. Come study the Bible, here we do not ask money. We do not preach religion. Does anyone still have doubts? The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Biblical-Theology-Study/1380682715594764?sk=timeline  . Or Portuguese https://www.facebook.com/www.estudosdabiblia.   In the name of Christ.

While I generally agree with what MJ and others have written, for Protestant theologians and serious theology students seeking resources, I would add Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger's Introduction to Christianity, which FaithLife conveniently sells, to their recommendations... and there's a significant academic discount on it right now, too.