$90 CP Bid (Reg. $559.99) Mobile Ed. NT362 Exegetical Study: Hebrews

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893273#Comment_893273

Aside from different teachers, what would this $90 class have over this free one:

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/hebrews/george-guthrie

Rodney Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893337#Comment_893337

Are all their classes free? Never heard of this site.. Will check it out..

Thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893337#Comment_893337

Hi Everett

I listen to a lot of audio and video from a lot of different sources, some are good and some are not and I will never stop looking for additional resources so thanks for this.

I appreciate the mobile Ed. from logos though because it integrates into the library I have and therefore gets my logos library integrated into me as it were. As well as the lectures themselves we also get suggested readings from our libraries for each video. I have a few of Mobile Ed and I am really glad I invested. I think if all the book studies are as good as Ezekiel they will be well worth it - especially at the price they are being offered for. I appreciate the Ezekiel course because although Block is (imho) fantastically knowledgeable, the additional readings also show the competing views on some of the more contentious issues. Each course I have followed has been solid and I'm very happy I invested some of my life earning the money to pay for the course which I believed has saved me more time in presenting to me great and diverse reading plans - just my opinion of course and I guess others will have different experiences.

I lumped in $120 as soon as I saw this go out on CP because even at that price it would most probably have been well worth it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893339#Comment_893339

Are all their classes free? Never heard of this site.. Will check it out..

The entirety of the site is free, and more are added.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893417#Comment_893417

Are all their classes free? Never heard of this site.. Will check it out..

The entirety of the site is free, and more are added.

Thanks for the heads up on this site Everett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893432#Comment_893432

Big blue box you would have to ignore on the front page "BiblicalTraining relies solely on the generosity of our users. Please donate to keep our classes free."

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893457#Comment_893457

Since most BT courses offer transcripts, you can make personal books. In terms of content, they are usually of a higher quality than Mobile Ed, but lack the Logos mini-tutorials, suggested reading, etc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893479#Comment_893479

Since most BT courses offer transcripts, you can make personal books. In terms of content, they are usually of a higher quality than Mobile Ed, but lack the Logos mini-tutorials, suggested reading, etc.

I disagree with this statement. Mobile Ed is more that the videos. If you look at a Mobile Ed. course in its totality then they are of very high quality as well as being more in depth.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893560#Comment_893560

I disagree with this statement. Mobile Ed is more that the videos. If you look at a Mobile Ed. course in its totality then they are of very high quality as well as being more in depth.

Actual quality of the videos and transcripts is neglible IMO. The actual content is very subjective, but I have not been impressed with the few MobileEd I have tried.

When you factor in price, I think its a no brainer who wins. That's why I asked earlier above what would entice me to spend $90 on the Logos version? Integration? Hardly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893562#Comment_893562

Actual quality of the videos and transcripts is neglible IMO. The actual content is very subjective, but I have not been impressed with the few MobileEd I have tried.

When you factor in price, I think its a no brainer who wins. That's why I asked earlier above what would entice me to spend $90 on the Logos version? Integration? Hardly.

I guess its horse's for courses as we say in the UK :-) It depends on what we value and how we learn I suppose. I think with everything the quality of different modules varies. I've really learned a lot from larger Mobile Ed. modules I've progressed though and from the overall review score of the modules I think a lot of people benefit from them. If it were just the videos and transcript then perhaps the value is dubious but it is the inrgrated readings that give the courses there value imo. At the end of the day Mobile Ed is available for those that want it as are the free videos listed above, as are the multitude of other resources that we can use. For me its not a winner or loser situation as I will most probably progress though both module and get many different views -) I am going to progress the KI module on Hebrews soon as well. I think Chuck goes pretty deep as well :-)

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893562#Comment_893562

When you factor in price, I think its a no brainer who wins.

There's no such thing as a free lunch:

First, donations paid to create the existing "free" content. Without those prior donations, you wouldn't have those courses.

Second, donations pay to create their new content. If they don't get enough donations, they can't produce new courses.

Third, donations help cover the cost of hosting their site and streaming their "free" videos.

There's a price for them. When people watch for free, it costs them money. If their "free" course is worth more than $0 and people can afford to donate, I hope they will! [H]

As for whether the "free" courses are better than the Mobile Ed courses, that is obviously subjective.

Let's just be thankful that there are many different opportunities that God provides to learn about the Bible! [:)]

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893560#Comment_893560

Since most BT courses offer transcripts, you can make personal books. In terms of content, they are usually of a higher quality than Mobile Ed, but lack the Logos mini-tutorials, suggested reading, etc.

I disagree with this statement. Mobile Ed is more that the videos. If you look at a Mobile Ed. course in its totality then they are of very high quality as well as being more in depth.

Sorry forge lack of clarity. When I said content, I meant the video content, which is pretty consistently less in depth (and often, subjectively, the MobileEd lecturers are not as engaging, with the notable exception of Moo). I intended to exclude the value of the integrated reading by the end of my sentence. Personally, not having the BT readings linked is a negligible difference for me, but I can see how the convenience of Mobile Ed adds value for some people.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893337#Comment_893337

Aside from different teachers, what would this $90 class have over this free one:

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/hebrews/george-guthrie

I have several Mobile Ed courses but have no experience with the BT site, so I took a quick look at the site and from what I can see, while some of the courses I pulled up have video, others are audio only unless I'm doing something wrong that prevents me seeing the video on those. So I'm curious if it is correct that some are audio only and if so, I'm wondering if anyone experienced with the site could venture a guess as to what percentage of the courses have video.

NOTE: I've purchased several more Mobile Ed courses (including this one on Hebrews) than I ever anticipated, although only when on sale and usually only when the sale is better than 30% off. I would love to have more but simply can't afford them otherwise. As with any product or resource, I find some courses better than others, but overall, I have no complaint about the quality of the material and I do like having the courses in Logos. But unless Faithlife is able to lower the cost of the courses (my problem, not theirs) I know I won't begin to be able to go through all the courses I'd like to, hence my interest in the BT site.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893653#Comment_893653

This now has the option to chose to bid $70.00

Maybe we can get this done yet.

Kevin A Lewis

Great offer - seems to have slowed - need more people on this one! Kevin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894892#Comment_894892

Looking forward to it. still working though OT317 which came out at a great price as well so i'm hoping this will arrive before I finish :-)

JoshInRI

Mine says $90. Pass. Everett...I checked out that site and you are my hero...thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894975#Comment_894975

This could possibly go for $70 (although I bid when it came out for $120 because it would be cheap at that price :-))

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/895397#Comment_895397

This could possibly go for $70 (although I bid when it came out for $120 because it would be cheap at that price :-))

I'm trying to do the math on this resource at its current ($90) CP price point. It's about 84% off, right? 84%!

The March Madness winner's resources 'only' get 70% off!

And, as you point out Dave, the price of this Mobile Ed Hebrews CP will fall even lower if more people choose to order it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894975#Comment_894975

A little progress.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/895402#Comment_895402

This could possibly go for $70 (although I bid when it came out for $120 because it would be cheap at that price :-))

I'm trying to do the math on this resource at its current ($90) CP price point. It's about 84% off, right? 84%!

The March Madness winner's resources 'only' get 70% off!

And, as you point out Dave, the price of this Mobile Ed Hebrews CP will fall even lower if more people choose to order it.

It is still $90, for an unaccredited class.

Mac

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/893339#Comment_893339

Another good site: https://www.covenantseminary.edu/

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/898814#Comment_898814

credited or unaccredited inst important to me what is important is quality and depth. $90 for this will most probably one of the best value deals I will ever get. I realize mobile Ed isn't for everyone but I think they are great :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/898852#Comment_898852

Another good site: https://www.covenantseminary.edu/

This does look good but at $500 per sem. hr its out of my price range :-(

Mac

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/898967#Comment_898967

No, some Covenant seminary courses are free, look at the resource page

https://www.covenantseminary.edu/resources/

Mac

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/899355#Comment_899355

ITune University has many free courses too:

e.g

Dallas Theological Seminary http://www.dts.edu/itunesu/

Reformed Theological Seminary http://itunes.rts.edu/

Gordon Conwell seminary https://itunes.apple.com/us/course/church-history-i/id598271829

Fuller Theological Seminary https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/ot501-pentateuch/id380159249?mt=10

Mac

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/899356#Comment_899356

but there free courses are not linked to resources in Logos. I think the best thing about Mobile Ed.is that they are linked to resources in logos and worth the cost of the Mobile Ed. course.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/898966#Comment_898966

what is important is quality and depth. $90 for this will most probably one of the best value deals I will ever get. I realize mobile Ed isn't for everyone but I think they are great :-)

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/899356#Comment_899356

Thanks Mac for the links here. I'll have a look at them for sure,

I agree with you regarding mobile Ed in that the most useful feature is their linking into our resources. I love the additional readings offered which can show differing views of some of the more complex issues :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900256#Comment_900256

There is now a Logos Blog post about this course which includes an interview with the lecturer, Dr David de Silva:

http://blog.logos.com/2017/05/solving-puzzle-hebrews-interview-david-de-silva

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900420#Comment_900420

This one is also soooo close. Then we just need to get more folks to help drive it down even more.

David Carter

This is really REALLY close now! Just a couple more $90 bids will surely take it over the line

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901044#Comment_901044

I think it would be a crime for this to cross over at $90. Not because that isn't a good deal--maybe it is, though I definitely won't bite at that price. It is a crime because this could VERY EASILY close for around $40. A few years back when the first mEd course was offered on CP (Witherington's Gospel of John course), I helped push the price down from about $110 to nearly $40. This one can follow the same route, IF PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. To get this below $50, people need to take an active roll in this CP. Just placing a green bid and then ignoring it until it closes will ruin this and you will flush $50 down the toilet. Don't be that way...save that money and use it to get something else you want in Logos. Setting it and forgetting it is a LOUSY way to do business with CPs.

A couple of other things that will be necessary if this is to close below $50 are:

1) NOT ACTING IN FEAR. Playing it safe is the enemy of getting a great deal. You will need to set your bid in the red zone if you want the best possible price. You WILL have plenty of opportunity to reset your bid to green before this CP closes, but until this CP is 2-3 days from closing, you should constantly choose a red zone price point to keep the price pressure on and encourage others to jump in and help provide even more momentum downward.

Why do you need to keep moving your bid? Because once this CP crosses the line, the clock starts ticking and there is a limited amount of time to push the price lower. If this crosses the line at $70, getting to $50 is almost assured. If it closes at $60 or lower, it might even go below $40. This is the important point...everyone who has bid higher than $70 MUST change their bid to $70 right now. Don't wait. DO IT NOW. You are still guaranteed to get this at $70, because it is very close already. But we want to avoid it closing at $90 at all costs.

2) If you haven't bid on this yet because you (for instance) would only want to get it at $50 or less and you don't see it getting that far, BID $50 ANYWAY, RIGHT NOW. Why? Because it takes big numbers to push the price lower, and every single person who doesn't bid until it has already hit their chosen price IS ACTUALLY KEEPING THE CP FROM REACHING THAT PRICE.

Also important for people to keep in mind is that the reason I'm encouraging people to "game the system" is because CP WAS DESIGNED TO BE A SYSTEM THAT IS GAMED BY ITS PARTICIPANTS. Bob has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't care if he sells one item for $1000 or a thousand items for $1, just so long as the expense costs of publishing the CP are covered. Each person who takes on the responsibility to actively push the price down is literally making it possible for others who have limited funds to potentially get in on this CP. You are doing a GOOD THING FOR OTHER LOGOS USERS if you take an active role in pushing this price as low as possible. And, of course, you are saving yourself money as well. I know there are Logos users who seem to have no problem paying nose-bleed prices on stuff. But every time those people bid high on a product, they are actively cutting off opportunity for others who are less financially blessed to take advantage of that same opportunity.

One final remark here: I know many people seem to not really understand how CPs work. But I promise you that if you will just follow this thread until this CP closes, you will get an incredible deal. You MUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, though. If you will just do the ultra-simple things I suggest, this will close far lower than you ever expected. When it does, LOTS of people will benefit by your willingness to play along, you included. I got a lot of grief from other forum users when the John CP was active, but I kept predicting that the price would drop and it followed my predictions all the way down to almost $40. This can and will do the same if we all act in unison.

Again, the first critical move is for all of the people who are above $70 to reset their bids to $70 NOW. This not only keeps the CP from closing too soon, but it PROVES to everyone that this approach DOES WORK. When people see the higher $75-$90 price points move away from the closing line, it will convince others who are psychologically timid to jump in and then all we have to do is watch the price drop like a rock. This CP can EASILY close at or even below $40 in 2-3 weeks. If you haven't bid yet, BID AT $50 NOW, even if you want to get it lower, because we need to have a clear peak at that price point to encourage people who won't bid higher that they have a real chance to get this CP at their price.

Finally, we need Logos to do two things. First, they need to move the lowest price to ZERO!!! and leave the highest price at $90. One of the main reasons people don't think it can really close for $5 is because they don't see $5 as an option. This could actually close at that price if we play this right, because TONS of people who have never bought an mEd course will jump in when the price becomes stupid cheap. The main thing that will prevent a final price of $5-10 will be if the current $75+ bidders are too selfish and lazy to keep the clock from starting to tick. If we can get this CP to cross at $50, it could easily close below $20 and even see $10. The key is that EVERYBODY NEEDS TO PLAY ALONG as one team.

When this hits 95% at $50--and that could happen in less than 2 weeks from now--FL needs to promote this CP hard. That will bring in the new flood of bidders who might normally never consider getting an mEd course at regular prices but recognize that the price has gotten too good to pass up. That will cause the price to drop significantly in a short amount of time.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901075#Comment_901075

For me this is a blessing at this price. Not a crime. Oh and I do not expect to hear my toilet flushing.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901083#Comment_901083

People should bid what they are prepared to pay, if you always bid at half the price and keep lowering the bids nothing would ever reach production. There is a limited pool of bidders, lowballing is killing community pricing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901101#Comment_901101

The reason there is a limited pool of bidders is because people have a limited pool of funds. I have a limited pool of funds. But I will get this if the price is below $50 and hundreds of others will, too. It CAN EASILY end up at that price if people will follow the instructions BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE. When the price of the John CP was over a $100, I said it could get to $60 and people whined and groused. When it was close to $60 I said it could get close to $40, and the whining got louder. It closed at nearly $40, though, despite the nay-saying and desire of many to have it close at a higher price. This isn't a normal CP, because it is NEW material, not musty and dusty public domain retreads. People WILL begin to pile on this CP offering in rapid fashion and this will close in less than a month below $50 and possibly below $30, IF AND ONLY IF people aren't incorrigibly pig-headed about wanting to pay money they could keep in their pockets.

If you decide to follow a program with proven success at lowering CP bids rather than complain about the possibility of saving money, please leave a post saying that you have moved your higher bid to $70--that way others who are doubters and nay-sayers will see that their doubts are unfounded and they will feel more comfortable making a smart decision rather than a safe decision.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901109#Comment_901109

Let me explain a bit of group psychology here. Most people are only thinking about what they can afford when they place a bid on a CP, and many people won't bother making any bid at all even though they might love to get the resource because the price they feel comfortable paying doesn't seem to have any chance of being reached. On top of that, there is a psychological bug in people's brains that keeps many people from placing a bid in the red zone because they don't know for certain that it will be successful. Many people would rather not bid and avoid a bizarre sense of failure than simply click a low price that may not be successful. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The whole reason the incredibly low price isn't achieved is because people refuse to take a chance. People would rather avoid a sense of failure than act in hope.

The problem with only making a one-time bid at your comfort zone and then ignoring it thereafter is that it ignores the group participation dynamic. To get the best possible price, you can't only consider your own mentality; you have to consider the mentality of everyone else, too. Every high bid literally causes others to not bid because they can't imagine their bid being successful. But when those people see the price point getting closer to their comfort zone, they are willing to make a bid. For instance, even though $90 may be a good price for this resource, perhaps only 100 people feel willing to pay that. But 1000 people would be willing to pay $45 for it. That would create a successful price point and save people lots of money, but it won't happen as long as the price looks like it is going to close at $90. The $45 bidders could easily get it at that price in a matter of a few days IF they would just make that bid, but they don't bid that price because the people who are willing to pay more are literally scaring them off of even attempting to make a bid they think is doomed to fail. Lots of people choose to avoid any sense of failure and don't act unless they can be convinced of success. So, what to do? It's actually pretty simple, but people resist it. If you are comfortable bidding a certain relatively high price, but would like to see a lower price, then you need to act in a way that encourages those who can only afford that lower price to jump onto the bandwagon. That not only isn't impossible, but IT HAS BEEN DONE SUCCESSFULLY MORE THAN ONCE. The recipe for success is tried and true...the main obstacle is people who refuse to play even though it is against their own interest. Don't be that person!

Though what I'm saying is true of all CPs in general, it is especially true of these mEd offerings because they are BRAND NEW material. People would LOVE to get these, but they don't think the price will ever get low enough to tickle their consideration, and so they don't bid at all. However, their intransigence CAN be overcome by three things: 1) other bidders openly saying that they are involved in the process of making the price go lower, 2) seeing the price points act in a way that shows people are taking control of the process and CAUSING a much lower price to materialize, and 3) increasingly excited hype over a surprisingly low price. LOTS of people who rarely or never do CPs will decide to get involved here and drive the price to an amazingly low place IF people will just do the things that make that happen.

Again, the naysayers love to rain on the parade, because it helps confirm their pessimism. When they publicly doubt and their doubts cause others to avoid action, they are "proved" to have been right in their pessimism. You can quash that pessimism by simply saying in a post to this thread that you are actively on-board. Every person who says, "I'm willing to play the game" encourages a dozen others who will never post to the forum to play the game, too. The price points will start to move and the excitement of empowerment will generate even more excitement.

If you are above $70, move your bid to $70 NOW. You lose nothing in doing so, since that price is guaranteed to be successful. Once FL lowers the frame and we can see the lower prices, many more people will see the price they like and become more comfortable bidding. If you haven't bid yet, bid $50 NOW. That will create a spike on the chart that encourages others to get involved. $40 is VERY POSSIBLE.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901109#Comment_901109

If you decide to follow a program with proven success at lowering CP bids rather than complain about the possibility of saving money, please leave a post saying that you have moved your higher bid to $70--that way others who are doubters and nay-sayers will see that their doubts are unfounded and they will feel more comfortable making a smart decision rather than a safe decision.

OK, I'm playing the game. I dropped my bid to $70 but plan to keep a close eye on it. As I understand CP, if someone places a bid that is going to fail (be too low) Faithlife will send that bidder an email a few days before they plan to "set" the price and take it off CP, notifying the bidder that his/her bid is going to fail, giving the bidder a chance to raise his/her bid. Guess I'll be a mighty disappointed camper if my bid fails and I don't get an email advising me to up my bid.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901116#Comment_901116

One more thing to consider: when this CP crosses the line, an automatic email is going to be generated saying that the projected closing price is $90. LOTS of people who get that email will see it and choose to ignore it because that price is too rich for them. But if the email says the projected price is $60 or even $50 (which would be ideal and is quite possible in the next couple of weeks), then TONS of people will react with excitement rather than despair. That will drive the price down even further. Every $5 drop in the closing price increases the number of people who will jump in and push the price down even more. That is why allowing this to cross over at $90 today or tomorrow is highly undesirable, because it can easily cross over at $50 two weeks from now. That activated email will have a much bigger push if the price it announces is lower. If you have a high bid, move that bid to $70 now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901119#Comment_901119

As I understand CP, if someone places a bid that is going to fail (be too low) Faithlife will send that bidder an email a few days before they plan to "set" the price and take it off CP, notifying the bidder that his/her bid is going to fail, giving the bidder a chance to raise his/her bid. Guess I'll be a mighty disappointed camper if my bid fails and I don't get an email advising me to up my bid.

You will get that email. I always do.

Once this thing crosses the line, people can bid that price and rest comfortably. The important thing is to not pull the trigger too early. We are trying to build downward momentum. Once the momentum is in force, it will take off by itself and we won't need to micromanage it any more.

David Carter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901120#Comment_901120

The important thing is to not pull the trigger too early

No, the important thing is to cross the line on a Thursday in order to give us a full week to drive the price down. Just a couple more bids of $90 should do the trick.

TCBlack

Alright you've convinced me. I'm in.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901257#Comment_901257

I am sure this is going to be great - along with the Deuteronomy CP offer as well :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901258#Comment_901258

I imagine that some folks weren't aboard the Logos train when the GoJ mEd CP was live, so you may have doubts about the arguments I'm making about getting much lower prices. This thread is one of the primary ones that chronicles that process.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/86086.aspx

This is no joke, people. If the thought of mEd CPs that close at $20-30 or even lower appeals to you, then change your inertial state and become a part of the solution. Go to this thread and voice your desire to see mEd CPs priced at massively affordable prices right out of the chute.

Also, this is dangerously close to crossing @ $90. That would be a shame. If you haven't done so already, please move your bid at $90 or higher to $70 so we can get this CP down to $40-50 or lower. We could easily get both the Hebrews and Deuteronomy mEd courses for less than $100 total.

David Carter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901383#Comment_901383

Also, this is dangerously close to crossing @ $90. That would be a shame. If you haven't done so already, please move your bid at $90 or higher to $70 so we can get this CP down to $40-50 or lower. We could easily get both the Hebrews and Deuteronomy mEd courses for less than $100

Lowering your bid is NOT going to get the CP down. The ONLY thing that will get the price down is MORE PEOPLE Bidding

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901387#Comment_901387

Also, this is dangerously close to crossing @ $90. That would be a shame. If you haven't done so already, please move your bid at $90 or higher to $70 so we can get this CP down to $40-50 or lower. We could easily get both the Hebrews and Deuteronomy mEd courses for less than $100

Lowering your bid is NOT going to get the CP down. The ONLY thing that will get the price down is MORE PEOPLE Bidding

Correct. By default a bid for $90 includes a bid for $70. But a bid for $70 does NOT include a bid for $90.

David Paul's goal however is to make sure that it doesn't cross the line at $90, but only does so lower.

EDIT: Which does require many more bidders at the lower price points to make it happen.