Logos for Catholics is not worth the while when staging outside the USA and Canada
One should seriously consider not to invest in the logos software if you are a Catholic and residing outside the US and Canada. Most of the key Catholic resources have licencing issues. The other problem is when a Catholic resource is available, the reference links that support the resources are not available to purchase due to licencing limitations. it is better to buy these resources from other suppliers that cost a fraction of the price. Logos claims you pay specificly for the refernce links and the integration bits. If you cannot purchase these resources for these reference links, one could ask what are you paying for as nothing is avaible. You will waste your money buying from logos.
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Can you list some specific resources?
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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The New Jerusalem Bible is the most glaring one I can think of...
Also Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections, the North American version is only one offered for individual sale.
-dan
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Dan Francis said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections
which is weird, but the international version is contained in all the Verbum packages from Starter up.
As an international customer interested in the catholic offerings of Logos (my largest and most expensive base packages are from the Verbum line of products) I don't feel that it's not worth wile. Non-US customers are feeling frustrated sometimes - but that is not specific to catholic products, it happens as well with protestant books e.g. on the new perspective on Paul. Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing (and that the CC who claims to be the only international organization, even more global than Coca Cola, splits up publishing rights of its core publication to national dioceses is a sign of very poor judgement).
Moreover I see Faithlife as going beyond that would be normal business practice in licencing the same product twice to be able to give it to the non-North American customers.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing
Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them. Faithlife has ultimately seen the United States as their primary customer and likely rightly so, but that narrow focus means they miss out most of their potential customers when a produced is restricted. The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.
-dan
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Dan Francis said:
Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them.
Very interesting. [^o)]
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Dan Francis said:NB.Mick said:
Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing
Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them. Faithlife has ultimately seen the United States as their primary customer and likely rightly so, but that narrow focus means they miss out most of their potential customers when a produced is restricted. The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.
-dan
Agrees they can do something. What we don't see is whether they are actually doing anything and I understand thsy are not going to tell us nor should they tell us of behind the scenes negotiations with publishers. Unfortunately as customers that leave us with a sense of FL not doing enough whether th is true or not.
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One should seriously consider not to invest in the logos software if you are a Catholic and residing outside the US and Canada. Most of the key Catholic resources have licencing issues.
On the contrary, hardly any Catholic resources have licensing restrictions.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Dan Francis said:
The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.
As I recall, as long as Verbum packages have existed, the USCCB's American edition of the CCC has been available in both Canada and the USA, although sometimes Canada was not listed in marketing materials. More recently, Faithlife has licensed the LEV English edition of the CCC, which does not have some of the features that the USCCB had added for their edition. The LEV's English edition is the 'default' English edition worldwide and thus FL can sell it worldwide. Unfortunately, FL has not yet offered it outside of a base package/library.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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"Also Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections, the North American version is only one offered for individual sale."
I have no base package and Accordance is my primary software and will remain so until Verbum offers CCC and NJB.
Although CCC (not NJB) is listed in all base packages with no mention of restrictions, I note that the pop-up box that produces details of each item produces nothing for the CCC. Does anyone outside North America actually have the CCC in a base package.
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CCC is available from FL in 2 version North American and International... the international one is in the Verbum base packages and virtually identical except for one index in the us version and one line on the title page.
-dan
For a bit more on the CCC situation.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/135783/901629.aspx#901629
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David Miller said:
Although CCC (not NJB) is listed in all base packages with no mention of restrictions, I note that the pop-up box that produces details of each item produces nothing for the CCC. Does anyone outside North America actually have the CCC in a base package.
I have the international CCC in Verbum. It works perfectly, and I've never had a problem with it. Pop-ups work just fine. Where do you see it not working correctly?
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I have considered getting the Verbum package to resolve my issue to have access to the CCC and the Jerusalem bible, but one of the agents from logos has confirmed that due to the licencing issues on these resources, I still will not be able to purchase them. As I am residing in South Africa, I'm not sure if this only applies to our country.
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They would know best but while NJB is NA only, I had been under the impression CCC international was globally available.
-dan
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The international edition of the CCC is globally available. The sales agent is wrong.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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This is great, except that the below resource is still restricted:
https://www.logos.com/product/17215/catechism-of-the-catholic-church
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This seems to be the only resource that is used in most other resources for reference links.
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Logos is not going to engage with the client to remove these restrictions. It is awkward why they would use this resource as a reference in so many other resources. I still stand to my point as mentioned in the beginning, it is not worth the while for international Catholic customers to acquire logos due to all these restrictions.
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This (the US edition of CCC) seems to be the only resource that is used in most other resources for reference links.
I don't think so. Links to the CCC would typically be 'datatype' links that reference a location in the CCC by number - this will open the highest prioritized Edition of it in your library.
Have joy in the Lord!
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[:)]
It will be great if there is another resource available instead of the one mentioned earlier that will work for the datalinks and that can be purchased outside the US and Canada.
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Can confirm that as the international edition is where all CCC links open up in my verbum, although funny enough even links from the NA version open in the international for me, again its level of prioritization that is why it is opening there.
-dna
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I have asked logos to remove all resources referencing the CCC resource from my account and provide me with a refund.
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I have it in Verbum Bronze, but I'm not sure whether it's the International version or the US version.
I really would love to have the NJB in Verbum.
PS: I'm in England.
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Since this thread focuses on the question whether CCC is usable in Logos for international customers, let me try to clarify that.
That "Not available" is simply the normal behavior that shows when you don't own any version of a linked book. I can definitely confirm that these links from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible show the CCC International edition or the CCC US edition (depending on which is prioritized higher in your library, if you own both) once you own at least one of them.
I tested that with both editions and both work - the screenshot above shows the International edition but they both work the same (I own the US-version from way back, before Logos realized they only had a crippled license).
The CCC International edition is contained in all Verbum base packages from Starter up, and in the subscription-based Verbum Cloud Premium offering.
Since it has no product page of its own, this is the resource page: https://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_CATCATHCHRCHITL/catechism-of-the-catholic-church
The Verbum Cloud Premium shows as 0.00 EUR since this subscription-based product offers a free introductory month - so you could subscribe and test-run it for a month (be sure to cancel it, if you don't like it, since the EUR 43 subscription - around 640 ZAR, according to Google - is a monthly subscription to a large library that resembles a higher base package). I personally think there's a lot of value in the Verbum Starter package, if one can afford it - and I would recommend Faithlife to try and offer the international edition of CCC as a standalone product.
The CCC US edition is available in three collections - the one at the top explicitly states on its product page that it is not for sale outside North America. You may try the other ones (sometimes that works, at least for a time) if you are not interested in a base package at all.
This is the resource page as well: https://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_CATCATHCHRCH/catechism-of-the-catholic-church
Hope this helps.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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Mick, thank you for your investigation regarding the CCC resource. I have purchased the Standard Gold package and obviously this resource did not came as part of it, as it is only available in the Catholic base packages as per your explanation. It seems that logos is contradicting themselves as this resource is not available in my country, except if I go for the Catholic base packages then? Not sure how the licencing issues then apply. It seems rather awkward, this is just another hidden tactic from logos to make money - I frankly totally lost interest in logos. Although I have made a substantial investment, I will switch to another product. It is sad how logos only have their own interest at heart. I presume their policy is take it or leave it. I am moving on to something more ethical and where customers are acknowledged. Logos is not a religious company, they saw the market opportunity and are only interested in their profits. There are so many complaints from customers across the groups about logos services, I should have taken these more seriously when I have decided to invest with this company. [:(]
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Hi all,
Sorry for not responding to this earlier.
I am looking into this particular issue and am going to see what we can do about selling the Int'l version as a standalone product.
Other than the CCC and NJB, are what other Catholic resources are you encountering that have restrictions?
Thanks!
Senior Director, Content Products
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Thank you Ben in assisting with this. There are more resources like the Grail Psalms. I have lost interest in these resources, but I'm sure that someone else would benefit if they are avaiable.
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