When Did God Create Hell?
Comments
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Mark Barnes said:Joshua Lieder said:
Perhaps - "Only God Almighty knows" will be enough.
The emphasis throughout Scripture, and in the resources I read whilst researching your question, was that Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, rather than for people. I think that's good to remember. It may also suggest that hell was created after the fall of Satan, but before the fall of man. I don't think we can say any more than that.
Mark,
makes a good point here and actually has Scriptual backing- but it does not give us all the info our curious little minds want- so this is one of those in the end it will not matter situations, except maybe to those who find themselves there, not a good thing.
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Old thread, but fun topic. I'll add my two cents.
We first need to define the English word "hell". It is used to translate a multitude of Greek and Hebrew words - especially in the KJV. The context of the original question makes me believe that the eternal "Lake of Fire" mentioned in the book of Revelation is the place of concern in this thread.
We, also, need to ask if the question is valid. Even if the Lake of Fire, as depicted in the book of Revelation, is a literal place, how do we know it is currently a created place? Perhaps God has not created it yet. The text seems to imply that the first inhabitants of the Lake of Fire are the False Prophet and the Beast (it is only afterward that death and Hades along with those not found in the Book of Life are judged and thrown in). Many people hold that no human or angel is currently in the Lake of Fire. As such, the Lake of Fire does not need to exist currently. But for fun, let's assume it currently exists.
And lastly, I think it is safe to assume that if this place exists (or will exist), it is physical since physical resurrected bodies will be thrown in. I found this comment in Henry Morris' "The Revelation Record" (p. 432) commentary quite interesting:
"All of these specifications seem to point to the likelihood (though we cannot be certain at this time) that “hell” (Greek gehenna), or “the lake of fire,” will be located on some far-distant star. A star, after all, is precisely that, a lake of fire. There are indeed, stars and galaxies that, although “burning,” do not give off light in the visible part of the spectrum, so that they consist of both “fire” and “cloudy darkness.” One might even suggest a “black hole,” if and when such objects are actually proven to exist, would fit the description."
If this is true, then the Lake of Fire was likely created on day four of Creation.
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Josh said:
We first need to define the English word "hell". It is used to translate a multitude of Greek and Hebrew words - especially in the KJV. The context of the original question makes me believe that the eternal "Lake of Fire" mentioned in the book of Revelation is the place of concern in this thread.
Not to say that you are understanding this literally, but care must be taken to avoid taking almost any of the pictures in the Apocalypse as literal physical facts. The author clearly states that the message was symbolized (ἑσήμανεν > σημαίνω) so that one must look beyond the symbol to that which is signified.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Not to say that you are understanding this literally, but care must be taken to avoid taking almost any of the pictures in the Apocalypse as literal physical facts. The author clearly states that the message was symbolized (ἑσήμανεν > σημαίνω) so that one must look beyond the symbol to that which is signified.
Oh, George...have some fun! Be a futurist for a day or two! [:)]
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...I just found this again tonight and am very humbled and made happy as well by the various responses in here. I am also very careful to ask that people use LOGOS resources and searches in their replies/links.
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God is omnipresent and is present in Hell
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I understand this is an old thread, and has been resurrected a few times (though to be fair resurected may not be the right word since that is used only of Christ).
However my thinking is that if God made hell - as seems likely from John 1:1ff In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.Then God made hell whenever he wanted to. Could have been before, during or after creation. It could be something in a constant state of creation (after all the worms never die, some regeneration would be necessary no?).
All I know is this: Oh, my brothers and sisters in Christ, if sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies; and if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay, and not madly to destroy themselves.
C. H. Spurgeon, “The Wailing of Risca,” in The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Sermons, vol. 7 (London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1861), 11.
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2016), Jn 1:1–3.
Both of which I found using Logos.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant...your post rocks...thanks. I enjoyed revisiting all the other responses again too.
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I'd like to take a moment to say that I'm so encouraged by the humility and respect on display in this forum post (barring one or two). It is very refreshing and, sadly, sorely needed on many a Christian forum.
JoshInRI said:God bless those with divergent theological views in this matter, but I am asking please for replies that do not mention purgatory. Thanks.
Respectfully,
JoshuaAll the best to you in your quest for knowing. May the LORD lead you into all wisdom.
Blessings, Liam
Carpe verbum.
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Logic dictates that God most likely created hell during the time that it rained 40 days and 40 nights I'm basing this on the fact that during those times the Nephilim roam the Earth and as you all may know these where The Offspring of the Fallen Angels. Which are most likely the source of characters in Greek mythology i.e. Hercules. And it is obvious that the Nephilim had offspring and so on and so forth. So it would only make sense that God created hell at that point two remove the Fallen Angels and their offspring from having a physical influence on Earth and at the same time the 40 day Flood took care of the Nephilim offsprings offspring etc.
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Tried searching for articles (heading text, heading title, large text, tag, topic, title) in entire library:
God BEFORE 7 WORDS (created,made) BEFORE 7 WORDS hell
Expanded search:
God BEFORE 7 WORDS (created,made,prepared) WITHIN 7 WORDS (hell OR (lake NEAR fire) OR Gehenna OR Hades OR Sheol)
finds three articles in an expanded library:
Searching surface text found more resources in an expanded library = lots to pray, ponder, and consider.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The forum post that doesn't quit turning up responses! Bubba, while I agree in large part with much of your underlying theology, I think you too have fallen into the same logical trap that the Original Poster (OP) fell into when he first began this thread. I brought up some issues to clarify in my earlier response on page 2, now 4 years ago and I suggest you might look those over. However to be brief here the problem is with the word Hell, which needs to be defined. You have assumed a definition within your response but I am aware of three and possibly 4 distinct possible things to which the word Hell might refer depending on usage.
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Plus, the OP required the use of Logos5. That severely limits who can validly answer the question.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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JoshInRI said:
How did you use Logos 5.0 to arrive at your answer please?
Please assume God DID create Hell for your replies.
The OP also limited replies to those that believe that Hell exists perhaps in opposition to the Lake of Fire.0 -
Reminds of Goldingay's Old Testament Theology
2.1 God Thought
In the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth. But what happened before creation, and why did God decide to create the world, and what led up to creation itself? Genesis begins with a Hebrew bet, which is open only forwards. That suggests to Genesis Rabbah 1:10 (on Gen 1:1) that we may inquire about subsequent events but not about preceding events nor about the world above or the world below. The traditional less polite response to the question “What was God doing before creating the world?” is, “Devising Hell for people who ask impertinent questions like that.”5 Admittedly that bet does not stop Jewish midrash from offering a strange anticipation of the “gap theory,” which translates Genesis 1:2 “and the earth became empty and desolate” and refers Genesis 1:3–31 to its subsequent re-creation. The midrash declares that God established the present world only after destroying a series of previous creations.
Goldingay, J. (2003). Old Testament Theology: Israel’s Gospel (Vol. 1, p. 43). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.0 -
As I'm sure most are aware the Bible in general be it KJV, New Age, Logos 5, etc. Is a collection of writings from many people and languages but only one Author of course (Our Father God). So several things to consider are 1. Chapters or books of the bible that were edited out by the early Catholic church for whatever reasons. 2. Interpretation and translation of other languages especially old languages i.e. Hebrew, ancient Arabic is far from an exact science, but the "what" in the Word of God does not change only the why, when, where, and who can vary. Ultimately, the what is all that matters the other 4 are the details that help to satisfy our human curiousity and interest and strengthens our faith. You just have to be careful not to let the details take away the "what" in Gods Word. As they say the devil is in the details [:)]. God bless all of you my brothers and sisters and never stop seeking knowledge of the Lord cuz everything else is just chasing the wind right
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You know I was just re-reading some of my posts and replies and re-reading what i quoted from Goldingay I in no way meant to insinuate, infer or imply that your question about Hell was a stupid, silly or impertinent.
I laughed when I first read this and simply thought it would be funny to some.
so once again, if this was taken as a slight, pls accept my apologies.
mm.
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Milkman, cold breezes are picking up, down here in AZ-land. We always wonder about frozen milk up there.
I don't think an apology is needed. One must distinguish (as the OP requested) between the text, and guessing. Your quote underlined that.
Plus, I thought it was the protestants that chopped out inspired text (Joshua, Jeremiah, etc).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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LOL. Yep Autumn is certainly here. Leaves and turning, squirrels are building nests high above the forest floor and the autumnal smells are deep and rich with decay and sadness. Got to put on a shell now that temps are hovering around 5 degrees celcius in the early mornings. We did have frost a couple of days ago. Even as I type I can hear the Geese coming down from the northern lakes and fields as they get ready to cross into the lands of our Southern friends.
No frozen milk yet, but give it a month and ppl will begin to put their coolers out. Beautiful time of year. Taking our new puppy, Jack a nine month old Golden Retriever for another walk in forest behind our home. We put Skeeter, our 16 yr old Golden down last Sept 5. Man that was the toughest thing I had ever done and experienced!! Sure miss him.
Anyway thanks for the reply hope all is great with you [:D]
mm.
Denise said:Milkman, cold breezes are picking up, down here in AZ-land. We always wonder about frozen milk up there.
I don't think an apology is needed. One must distinguish (as the OP requested) between the text, and guessing. Your quote underlined that.
Plus, I thought it was the protestants that chopped out inspired text (Joshua, Jeremiah, etc).
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Bubba Hester said:
As I'm sure most are aware the Bible in general be it KJV, New Age, Logos 5, etc
Welcome [:D] to the Logos Bible Software forums whose primary focus is using Bible Software applications and mobile apps by Faithlife Corporation along with resource questions/recommendations.
When this thread started on 22 May 2013, Logos 5.0b SR-4 was the current stable release, which did not include any Bible resources. Every user needed to purchase Bible resource(s) for use in their Logos library.
Original Post (OP) included focus on using Logos Bible Software to answer question:
JoshInRI said:... but biblically speaking When Did God Create Hell?
How did you use Logos 5.0 to arrive at your answer please?
Refined my library search for original question a bit more:
God WITHIN 7 WORDS (created,imagine,made,prepared) WITHIN 7 WORDS (hell OR (lake NEAR fire) OR Gehenna OR Hades OR Sheol)
Today, the current stable Bible Software releases for Windows and mac OS are Logos 7.9 SR-1 and Verbum 7.9 SR-1 (anticipating 7.10 releases later this month). Thankful for free Logos 7 Basic and Verbum Basic that include some Bibles with reverse interlinears for use in Logos 7 and Verbum 7. Note: Basic resource "purchase" has no effect on dynamic pricing of future resource purchases. Thankful many Bible resources being available for purchase => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Resource+Type=Bibles&Status=Live
Searching my library using Logos 7.10 Beta 3 for:
([field heading,largetext] canon,apocrypha) BEFORE 77 WORDS ([field heading,largetext,surface] edit,discard,left)
finds a number of canonical articles
Found canon article in a resource that is no longer offered for purchase. Thankful previous purchase is still usable.
Refined canon article search (found edit had no results in my Library while change found more articles):
([field heading,largetext] canon,apocrypha) BEFORE 77 WORDS ([field heading,largetext,surface] change,discard,left)
Likewise Thankful for many Logos resources that include Canon History => https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=canon+history&Status=Live plus Vryso eBooks => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=Canon+history (that can be read/searched using Logos and Verbum).
FYI: theological discussions of New Age implications is appropriate at a different Faithlife web site => http://christiandiscourse.com
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I wish they still sold general introduction to the Bible
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Mattillo said:
I wish they still sold general introduction to the Bible
I don’t understand
Logos has available a range of Bible introductions
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Sorry about that. One of the resources keep smiling showed isn't sold by logos anymore. It is called a general introduction to the Bible by Geisler
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Thanks Mattillo
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