Interface....inital impressions

Nice.  Can you pick which fonts are displayed?

hi

 I love the new interface, easy to navigate,    no problems speech reader is working brilliantly

 my dyslexia is not having any problems with the layout,  I can go straight into whatever I'm studying with a couple of resources open, with a few mouse clicks the power of the program is visible

 it's brilliant,  

mick[:)]

Any chance of implementing Ctrl + and ctrl - for enlarging the font sizes within the resources? Changing the default font size does not help since it depends which monitor I am using and also the size of the panel/window that I am reading from.

Thanks.

As always, I'm happy to share my ideas with you. First off, I was overwhelmed at the opening homepage. It was like looking at a newspaper and trying to figure out what all was there. It took me awhile to get it to go away, but now I can't figure out how to get it back.

• I've gone to the layouts tab, clicked the down arrow, and see what's been there in the past, but it doesn't seem to be of any use. I double click on a previous layout (e.g. the homepage) and nothing happens (well, it just did -- the program crashed). But, I've not seen any benefit of seeing what had been there if I can't do anything with it.
• I would like a new layout (I like my opening pretty clean) with a couple of Bibles on the right and the lectionary on the left. But, I can't get the lectionary to open -- don't find a link to it anywhere on the tools menu and help doesn't (help). Somehow I found a way to get a lectionary at the top of my homepage, don't remember it being there initially, but once I closed the homepage, I don't have access to the lectionary and it's a tool I use continually.  
• I've opened two Bibles -- the NRSV and The Msg. I said to make them free float, but after that, there doesn't seem to be a way to anchor them again -- the float feature doesn't toggle. And at the same time, there doesn't seem to be a way either to put the two Bible windows on the same screen except by using the Alt+Tab button -- then one gets promoted and then the other until they're one above the other on the right side of my screen. Unfortunately, once they're there and floating on top -- when I click on the Tools menu, the windows disappear. Thus, with these two floating windows viewable, I can't use the tool bar and keep the windows on top.
• I miss quick access to some of my favorite resources that I've had on my tool bar since the early days of Series X. There doesn't seem to be anyway of adding to the toolbar. With widescreen monitors and displays that support a lot of data, it seems a terrible waste of real estate to not be able to add "helps" to the tool bar (maybe I can get a quick link back to my lectionary). The "Shortcuts" only works if you know how the program has coded the feature I'm looking for. Again, I'm looking for the UM Lectionary, but that's not listed. I searched for lectionary and alphabetically, the Catholic came up first which is fine, but finding the UM version took a little patience.

If you haven't guessed by now, one of my biggest issues with the UI is that there's so much missing. There's no print feature that I've found, and no export. I haven't even found a way (surely there is) to just view Bible text and not all the superfluous "stuff" such as headers that the printers put in there paper versions.

And, while we're sharing -- Let me note that the search feature certainly isn't any quicker.

• My system has been indexed (twice from what I could tell), and I just searched for "John the Baptist" in all passages in all Bibles. It took 83.36 seconds to find 454 results in 50 verses. I then switched back to Logos 3 and did the same search. In about 45 seconds, the search found 627 occurrences. I'm not sure how to reconcile 454 with 627. 
•  I did the same search in both versions, searching just the New Testament. Logos 3 found the same 627 resources in 18 seconds. Logos 4, found its same 454 resources in 89.96 seconds. So, it took longer to search a smaller selection of books. I'm quite puzzled by the fact that the new and improved version, not constrained by MSIE took twice as long for one one search. and nearly six times as long for the second search. Seems we've gone the wrong direction.

 Anyway, those are a few of my frustrations -- but, it's early in the cycle, and as I said, I'll stick with you.

Now, let me cheer you on -- THANK YOU!! for cleaning up the export to WordPerfect. There was very little extraneous formatting there, and that helped tremendously.

Blessings -- Dale

Dale, I'd love to hear what you like least about the new interface. The windowing system? The menus? The simplified toolbars?

Bob, I know I'm on thin ice here -- and I don't want to start a flame war, so I'm praying that cooler heads will prevail and just accept what I'm saying without resulting in the blood letting that usually follows something like what I'm about to say.

I love Word Perfect. I've used nearly every version since 5.1 for DOS. It was (and still could be) a great word processor. While I consider M$ Word to be "the word processor that does everything, the hard way" Word Perfect allows me more control over my documents in ways that Word can't even produce. But, several iterations ago, WPWin users had to explicitly change a setting to allow WPWin to work like WordPerfect and not like Word. The WPWin crew decided that because the world was migrating to Word, that they needed to mimic Word and so they created an interface that looked and acted like Word. Bob, if I wanted to use Word (and, yes, I'm forced to at times because folks I correspond with are also using Word), I'd ditch WPWin because I don't need to programs that look and act the same. But, I keep WPWin on my system, and I use WPWin because I like the way it works for me, and I like the control it gives me over not only my interface but expecially my documents.

Coming from the world of Honeywell DPS-6 mainframes, and Remote Network Processing, replete with card readers and line printers, I came kicking and screaming into the GIU world of Windows 3.1, then 3.11, then 95, then 98 (I skipped Win Me, thank you very much), then Win 2K, then Win XP, I've got Vista on the machine I'm writing this on and I can hardly wait to ditch Vista (and move on from XP) as I put Win 7 on all of my machines. But, I've come to like Windows. I like menu bars, I like tool bars, I like to be able to modify them. I like control over my program, and I like the look and feel of Windows (although I'm not terrible crazy about the Vista/Office 2007 interface -- there's too much missing there also).

Bob, if I wanted a Mac, I'd buy a Mac. But, I don't want one, wouldn't have one, and refuse to get in the camp that says it's better than a PC. For some things, a four wheel drive SUV is the way to go. But, I'll still take my Mercury Marquis, thank you very much. But, why is it that I'm getting the impression that Logos is trying to make the Windows version of Logos look, act, and feel like a Mac? I hear folks (I've read their threads in the forum) say how they like the "clean" home page -- I'm sorry, it looks cluttered to me, and there doesn't seem to be anyway to shut off the bubble machine and make some of that stuff go away. I read where folks like the lean and mean fightin' machine of a spartan header line. But, after several days, installation on three machines with very different configurations, and some time to think about whether I should even voice my opinion -- I'm still not thrilled with what I'm not finding in the new interface.

Before the NG's pretty much closed down, I was following the Mac discussions in the NG and noted how much was missing from the Mac version that we already had in the Windows version and have had (in many cases) since Series-X was a puppy. Now to keep parity with the two versions of the program, and I know I may be on thin ice here, but it seems as if we're dumbing down the Windows version to keep the two versions on a par. I know -- that's not fair, but it's a first gut reaction.

There's no Windows familiarity (or at least barely) to speak of with L4 -- as a colleague in the test group has said, it's unlike anything he's (or I've) ever used. And yet, I get the feeling that's because he and I use Windows and Windows application, and not a Mac and Apple products.

I remember how I was nearly shouted down and derided in the NG a while back when some of the Mac users (in a Windows section of the NG) were clamoring for a more Mac interface for their Windows application. It got ugly. I hope it won't be that way today. But, again, if I wanted a Mac, I'd buy a Mac, but I don't and I didn't, and I won't. And, I'm not realy happy that my work horse Bible program for Windows is moving to what appears (IMHO) to be a Mac GUI without regard to the basics that are part and parcel of Windows.  

I know, you're too far along and too invested in this new interface to ever think of going back the other way. And, I'm way too financially invested to ever abandon the Logos community (not that anyone else has anything like the quality and number of resources available through Logos). But to me, there's just soooo much missing in the current interface. Where's the rest of the Library Maintenance repertoire? Suppose I want to move files around -- where's the Location Manager. Suppose I need to "refresh my resources" -- where's that feature. Bob, I helped beta test the Sermon Addin, and I know others have used the PBB feature. But what gives with the statement that they aren't in Beta 1, and may not make the final cut? I know some folks who paid for those features and now the program is moving along to the next level and features bought and paid for aren't on the drawing board?.

Print (Ctrl+P) is a basic command and feature of the Windows OS. Hey, it's even part of the basic Mac OS. It's been part and parcel of almost every OS I've been associated with. How come there's so much missing from the File menu, e.g., Print and Export.

Bob, I love the sync process - don't me wrong - that I can have the same desktops (oops, layout) on all my machines and not have to reconstruct them each time I move to a different location. But, where's my local backup of my license? Suppose my internet connect goes down (I don't know about Washington, but hey, it does happen here in Oklahoma) or I'm on a laptop at some location without the internet. There just seems to be too much reliance on a technology that may or may not be available at all times and in all places. Suppose there's some missionary in some remote part of the world (and we have some in the Logos user community) who just doesn't have internet access. Are we abandoning those folks?

We'll it's Friday morning, and I appreciate the opportunity vent a bit. Thanks for hearing me out

Dale

While there is a definite learning curve...I find the current UI very user friendly and easy to learn/figure out. Knowing this is Beta I realize there are features lacking that will make its way to the released product.

I do hope that the Help feature is being worked on vehemently, however, so as to help those willing to hit the F1 key to learn the hows of the product.

I was INCREDIBLY LOST at first...when the interface opened...I thought I was reading the newspaper not using bible software! [:O]

The interface is very different and therefore requires a "mindset shift" on my part...but the "logic" of it is growing on me.

I do like the workspaces in v3 and use them frequently so if there is a parallel feature in v4 that would be my pick.

As I mentioned before; I really like the "crossover" elements from exegetical guide to parallel guide (word by word being available in parallel guide)  making my study more "personalized" and using less clicks.

One thing I REALLY liked in v3 was the ability to repeat a syntax search when I miffed it.

Where are the toolbars, Workspaces, etc., measure and weights.

I may be falsely doing so, but I'm working under the assumption that these things will come in later releases. If this beta is supposed to have all the functionality of 4.0 then yes, there seems to be quite a bit missing. I can't seem to find the ESV reverse interlinears for instance.

Where are the . . . Workspaces

Workspaces have been replaced by Layouts.