Introducing Faithlife Connect

Phil (and Chris),

In reading these various threads about Faithlife Connect, it seems that there are quite a few Logos Now subscribers who approached it the same way I did. LN at $99/yr was a good value because it assured that I would always have all the Logos (desktop) features even across major version upgrades. In the past, I would spend more than $300 on version upgrades because I was forced to buy some level of library to get the new version's features. With LN, I could always have the features. I have ~10K resources - I don't need more books. I didn't care about any of the other LN benefits: courses, resources, etc. I only cared about the application features (which includes datasets needed by those features).

Now I look at https://connect.faithlife.com/now-connect-compare and see that half of the features/datasets I had in LN are going away if I stick with "Starter." If I want to keep the features, I've got to pay ~2.5x what I was paying for LN, even though I don't want any of the other "benefits" of Faithlife Connect. If you keep with a 2 year version upgrade cycle, if I can get all new major version features for < $480, I'm better off w/o Connect. It's simply ridiculous and presumptuous pricing. Am I owed an ongoing LN subscription and features at $99/yr? No. But there was certainly an implicit promise made by Faithlife to its customers about the ongoing value and benefits of LN which has been ripped out from under us.

I evaluate the value of subscription models based on how long-term pricing compares to the purchase model. For example, I subscribe to Office 365 at $99 / year. This is a great value because previously I would spend $300 or more every 3 years on Office upgrades, and with the subscription I get 5 licenses. LN was clearly a good long-term value. Connect "Essentials" isn't. And "Starter" takes away features I'd had access to.

From my point of view, there's one thing FL could do to make this pill easier to swallow: For major version upgrades, provide a way to purchase all the new features and datasets in the upgrade without having to buy any kind of a library or resource package - *** on day one of the new version ***. That way I'm assured of access to the new features without having to buy new books, which I don't need.

Thanks for reading,

Donnie

Randy W. Sims said:

I only want the Logos features as they are developed. That's my sole reason for subscribing to Now. The other bits were an appreciated addition but I would pay the price just for the updates.

I agree and subscribe to Now for the same reason.  I have plenty of books and don't need more that are selected by someone else.  I buy what I need, I don't want to pay for more that I don't need.

Scot Wright said:

Whenever Faithlife/Logos has a major release or announcement it is always a train wreck. The email that was sent to me out of the blue did nothing to help me understand this new program, created more questions than information and just plain confused me. It would seem to me that a basic marketing skill would be to anticipate your customers questions and concerns.

This roll out has the same feel so far as the roll out of L4.

Dustin Pearson said:

The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

Donnie

I just received a download this morning of 42 temporary books in my library that I didn't already have.  I think it is related to the Faithlife Connect Starter subscription that I've been switched to.  If that's the case, then I already own 55 of the books that's included in that plan.  Without dynamic pricing, I'm paying for books I already own.  On top of that, I'm not interested in the books that were downloaded. 

I don't like the idea that someone else is deciding which books I need.  I'd rather have a plan that allows me to select which books I get and whether or not I rent or buy.

To me, temporary books (aka renting books) is for research analysts who only need the resources for a particular project and not afterwards.  I study daily and proclaim and explain the Scriptures weekly.  If a resource helps me do that today, then I should have it available tomorrow, so I buy it.  I use notes a lot, so having the resource in my library keeps the integrity of the notes intact and their context and related information available.

Donnie Hale said:

I evaluate the value of subscription models based on how long-term pricing compares to the purchase model. For example, I subscribe to Office 365 at $99 / year. This is a great value because previously I would spend $300 or more every 3 years on Office upgrades, and with the subscription I get 5 licenses. LN was clearly a good long-term value. Connect "Essentials" isn't. And "Starter" takes away features I'd had access to.

Very good point

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

There may end up being a few small things that just don't make sense outside of a subscription, but for the most part just about everything should be available as a perpetual license in Logos 8.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:You can see the differences between the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set and the Logos Cloud Feature Set in this comparison chart. Most of these items missing from the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set will be added to Logos 8.

Hi Phil,

I think you make two significant points here.  Many of us subscribe to Logos Now because of the "future" features, functions, data sets and resources.  It is reassuring that most of these will be in Logos 8 and our Logos Now investment was worth the cost (especially considering the Logos 8 coupon code discount for Now subscribers - thank you).

It makes sense that Logos TV and the web app are subscription based, but I don't use these.  The web app isn't available everywhere I use Logos on my PC laptop and I only found a couple Logos TV resources I could use (but did not need) in my ministry.  I'd rather not pay for the TV/Web services since I'm not using them.  I understand they are included in my Now subscription, but the value of the Now subscription is in the enhancements it makes to the Logos application, not the extra Logos TV or the web app.  The free books (and other Logos Now perks) have also been a nice blessing - thank you.  I use the android Bible app for teaching and preaching and the Faithlife eBooks app for reading books. They are much more available and reliable than any web app.

The month preview of books in the Now program was nice - It gave me an opportunity to see books I don't have and buy those I will use at a discounted price, which a did a few times.  I wasn't stuck with books that were selected by someone else and that I don't need.

I think the plans need to be reworked.  

Randy W. Sims said:

Donnie Hale said:

Dustin Pearson said:

The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

I agree. A package with just the features would be perfect. I don't have any argument about the essential package and up. There is nothing wrong with them that I see and a good value for those who want more - I hope a lot of folks sign up. But I just want Logos new features/datasets. All of them. At a reasonable price.

Agree... Please add a feature only option!

What I see with that slider is: "Annual billed monthly" vs. "Month-to-month."

If I were to get Connect, I'd want "Annual billed annually."

Donnie

JRS said:

Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme:  

Here's a challenge to you: Would you be equally happy if they increased the price 300%? 500%? Where's your cutoff? Why aren't you more generous to such a wonderful corporation?

JRS said:

And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen.  We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife.  Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.

I live in the 10/40 window. I have a Ph.D. and pastor a large church. I make roughly the equivalent of U.S. minimum wage. I cannot justifiably afford this unreasonable increase to the price of Logos Now. Today FaithLife took from me something that was valuable for my ministry as well as my personal life. I am quite reasonably unhappy about that.

Customers who have been with Logos/FaithLife for years, even decades, have right to complain about their bad decisions.Take your corporate white-knighting somewhere else.

t

Robert Neely said:

Sean said:

This is an utter betrayal.

No, this is the natural progression of a subscription-based service.  Remember how cable tv started out?

  Of course it is the natural progression of any subscription-based service.  Rent never goes down, only up.  Good analogy.  I remember that I started out paying $20 a month  for cable TV, and now pay $125 per month, with no premium movie channels.  (On the other hand, I do have a multiple room DVR, and there is certainly a time factor involved.)

I was not even interested in Logos Now, and I am surely not interested in this.  The last thing I want is a monthly bill for my library books.  I would be more inclined to use that monthly fee for a payment to own books that I select, rather than to rent them, which what this amounts to doing.  And you do not even get to choose what books you renting.  Absurd!

Maybe this will work out for Logos.  They better hope that not many of the customers are like me.   I do not accuse Logos of betrayal.  It is a business decision, and I wish them well.  I will continue to buy my books from Logos (mostly).  I certainly wish them well.  They are a great company, and they are great people.  But as for any subscription service, thanks, but no thanks.  May be a great fit for someone else.

I'm confused on the length of the access to Connect.  Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19?  I've seen some claim they got starter and others essential.  I got essential which I'm actually warming up to (grabbed the class on Exodus to check out for free for 180 days).  I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?

Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident.  I don't want to shoot myself in the foot but I don't want to be dishonest either.  Anyone else seeing this?

fgh said:

We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect

So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now

Kevin A Lewis said:

Either this is an awful deal

or

It has been badly communicated

or

The customer community are dense and have not understood the obvious!

Are there any other options.??

Let me know

Shalom

'Tis an awful deal, badly communicated......Re: dense   Ur kidding, of course.  We ain't dense......But, we are connected to them by what we own +, as the umbilical cord grows in diameter, by what we rent.

The 1st time I was on a sea-going vessel as a kid, I felt the thrum of the engine increase as the vessel started out.  I felt uneasy for what the mighty sea and the waves held in store.  I feel the same unease here; white-knuckling a deck chair helps not at all, as it seems 2b moving in jittery little twitches interspersed with bigger lurches.

Sean said:

I like Logos. I like many of its tools. I'm not at all interested in FaithLife's productions, TVs, or courses. And I don't have endless funds to absorb every increase.

I have always felt that is the problem behind the push on money - just the responses here must be what, at least 90% negative? Where's the customer base whose input was the "feedback" that helped FL conclude this was a venture good for its customers?

Bob has said the increase in cost and subscription is due to "support", but you can't convince me there are enough paying customers to make Faithlife TV, cloud, Faithlife social groups, Proclaim, all the different mobile apps, Bible Study Magazine, Soundfaith, Kirkdale Press, other websites like Biblia, and probably more I am not thinking of, PROFITABLE - what pays for all that? What funds the new ventures that pop up, while the forums have a large quantity of quality and performance issues where it's victory to just get them "on the list"? I think what funds all this is the cash cow Logos. A 200% increase in subscription price is warranted, especially when it can "pay" for some of these otherwise underfunded ventures.

James Taylor said:

So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now

Maybe we should all go the whole hog and cross the Tiber [:D][:D][:D]

Thomas Gette said:

We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.

Follow up:

Fos Zoe said:

Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?

Thomas Gette said:

That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.

You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.

Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.com

I've been a Logos user for nearly 10 years and despite having spent quite a bit of money over the years, I'm talking now to someone over at Accordance to see if they have anything they can offer.  Given that there may be a bunch of people jumping ship, it may be a good idea for them to create a lifeboat package for people exiting the Logos platform.

I was thinking some more about this today.

I think what they are doing could be a great deal for some people, but probably not for everyone who commented on this thread.

Why not offer all the main services separately?

FaithLife TV may be a great option for some. I already have access through another service to almost everything that is there and quite a bit more so it doesn't interest me personally.  But the service I use isn't available to individuals so what you all are doing probably does have a place.  

The Faithlife Courses as a subscription is a good option for someone who doesn't want to purchase a course too.  

The Faithlife Originals and Classics might be a good option for someone who wants access to those things.  You could even make a seperate low cost subscription for that.

And if I were a brand new customer to Faithlife, I think the idea of a package deal that contains all of your resources ie Faithlife Connect, would be appealing.  

But, I'm not a new customer.  Like many, the only reason that Faithlife (In my mind you'll always be Logos) came up on my radar is because of your Logos Bible Software.  That's the reason I'm here and if I'm honest, even know the company exists.  

Why not do this:

1) Offer your main subscription services, Logos Now, Faithlife Courses, and Faithlife TV as separate subscriptions services.  

AND

2) Offer them all as a bundle like you're trying to do with Faithlife Connect? Obviously Faithlife Connect would be the better deal if you want access to everything.

Both of them would have appeal for different people.  Everyone on this thread would be happy and every new (or current) customer that wants a bundle package without all the Logos features are going to be happy.  

Is the best of both worlds not possible?

Donnie Hale said:

What I see with that slider is: "Annual billed monthly" vs. "Month-to-month."

If I were to get Connect, I'd want "Annual billed annually."

Donnie

It seems that Essentials billed annually would be $240 ($19.99 x 12) whereas on a monthly basis it would be $24.99 (and you'd end up paying $300 at the end).

Chris,

I still haven't received an email. I appreciate that you guys are dealing with the fallout of this today, but it compounds the frustration and anxiety level for those of us who haven't received any communication from FL, wouldn't have known what is going on if we were not tuned into the forums, and keep reading that some customers are receiving $x while other are receiving $y. It seems like it would have made sense to send out all of the emails first and at one time. We know it's not your fault and you're just left to dealing with the fallout, but this is the type of ongoing communication blunders that us long-term customers have come to abhor and makes us anxious about what in the world is happening at FL. I know you're dealing with a million issues right now, but if possible, please check on the status of my email. Thanks for trying to reply to as many of us as possible.

Shalom

Chris duMond said:

Adam, your renewal date for Faithlife Connect Starter will happen on 8/8/18. Your Logos Now benefits will continue PAST that date until 11/12/18. On 11/13/18, you will only have access to the benefits in Faithlife Connect Starter. 

I'm still confused about why I would want to start paying for Faithlife Connect Starter in August if my Logos Now benefits will continue until November.

Have I misunderstood what you mean by, "As we make the transition to Faithlife Connect, you’ll maintain access to all Logos Now benefits through Nov 12, 2018." In my mind "all Logos Now benefits" means: 1) Members' Only offers; 2) Discounts on Libraries and Feature Sets; 3) Access to Logos-selected Mobile Ed course; 4) Free "classic" book each month; 5) Access to preview resources; 6) Logos 8 early release features.

If this is the case, what would be the point in paying for Faithlife Connect Starter while I'm still enjoying these benefits? If this isn't the case, can you please clarify which Logos Now benefits are included in the phrase "all Logos Now benefits"?

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious! I'm just slightly confused at this point!

(PS Chris - Thanks for being so accessible on the forums while these things are getting worked out.)