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Ok, I saw this and read each of the responses. This has led to (???)
What would be the purpose in removing the "verses" and such? There was even a mention of paragraphs being cut in certain places. Does the cutting of a paragraph all of a sudden change scripture?
Forgive my naivety, but I just do not understand.
William
What would be the purpose in removing the "verses" and such? There was even a mention of paragraphs being cut in certain places. Does the cutting of a paragraph all of a sudden change scripture?
You really don't want to get me going on the subject of chapters and verses - I really do want to build up a reputation as a fanatic on the issue. [:D]
I prefer to study scripture as a series of sentences - complete thoughts. This is sometimes a part of a verse or a group of verses. I think of chapters and verses as being the equivalent of the line numbers running down the side of legal documents - you use them as a way to get another person to be looking at the same piece of text. Looking at text verse by verse can result in a portion of a sentence being treated as a complete unit which can result in misunderstandings. Chapters share the same arbitrariness - they may or may not represent a reasonable pericope boundary. Again partial units can lead to improper interpretation. As for paragraphs - they don't bother me. I can take 'em or leave 'em.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Looking at text verse by verse can result in a portion of a sentence being treated as a complete unit which can result in misunderstandings. Chapters share the same arbitrariness - they may or may not represent a reasonable pericope boundary. Again partial units can lead to improper interpretation.
The downside for verses is that
they can isolate a thought from its context; an isolated thought can be
misinterpreted very easily.
[quote
user="Kevin Becker"]
Does this sentence go at the end of that
paragraph or the beginning of the next? it can make a difference for
interpretation.
Ok, it seems I am getting the same idea of responses here.
It seems there are two types of problems that could occur. There are misunderstandings and misinterpretations. Let me define a misunderstanding as compared to a misinterpretation. A misunderstanding is passive. A misunderstanding would be a small twisting of meaning. A misinterpretation is active. It is taking something as written and really screwing up the meaning. I just do not see these problems myself in reading scripture with or without the verses and paragraphs or "parts" divided up. Maybe one or both of you might provide some examples and show how each example was either a misunderstanding or a misinterpretation?
I have considered my last question and see how it would be against policy of the forum. Please send the examples to my email account. Myemailaddressisluvmath03ATyahooDOTcom.
William
What would be the purpose in removing the "verses" and such? There was even a mention of paragraphs being cut in certain places. Does the cutting of a paragraph all of a sudden change scripture?
Verses and Paragraphs are divisions that were not present in the original manuscripts. Infact,theywerewrittenwithoutspaces. These divisions are handy. Verses help us get to places quickly and Paragraphs help group what the translators saw as a paragraph. The downside for verses is that they can isolate a thought from its context; an isolated thought can be misinterpreted very easily. Paragraphs represent a judgment call on what constitutes a paragraph. Does this sentence go at the end of that paragraph or the beginning of the next? it can make a difference for interpretation. The practice of looking at a text this way helps reduce any artificial conclusions induced by the formatting of the text.
Prov. 15:23
When I study scripture I take out all the verses and chapters and paragraphs so the text is plain and then begins the work of study.
Here is the method I use most of the time. Some parts of scripture like Psalms and Proverbs I don’t treat this way. In my method I am studying a whole letter or book. For longer books I modify this method some.
1) Make 2 plain texts (2 copies of the same text being studied) no verse chapters or paragraphs
2) Read the text (book, letter) through 4 times and each time ask a different question
a. What’s the mood
b. Who are the recipients
c. What is the stated or implied reason for the letter or book
d. What is the theme
e. What’s the occasion
f. Ect.
3) Use some bible dictionaries or Encyclopedias to see what they say concerning the questions I asked above as well as date, historical background, ect and reevaluate my conclusions (never assuming the dictionaries are always right about everything or I am always right in my conclusions but reading and reasoning through what others say)
4) Reread the text and decide where I believe the paragraph divisions are
5) Compare my paragraph divisions with 3 or 4 translations and reevaluate mine (again never just assuming the translations are always right or that a majority are or assuming I am always right)
6) Sum up what is contained in each paragraph in a short sentence
7) Use that summed up sentence to create a basic outline
8) Take my second blank text and circle any words that are key to the sentence or paragraph or words that I don’t know the meaning of.
9) Do a word study on all the circled words.
10) Write a basic commentary on my findings and thoughts on what I believe the text is saying and what it means.
11) Reading a few commentaries to see what they have to say
12) Reevaluating my conclusions and thoughts (once again never assuming that commenters are always right or that I am always right or that a majority must be right but thinking and reasoning through things)
13) Make my final commentary
This can be a long process but I find it is a very fruitful one. I will post a few pictures when I go down stairs to my office after I finish my tea.
A book that's particularly challenging when it comes to paragraph divisions is the letter of James. I'm preaching through that book right now and have found its free flowing style makes it difficult to discern where a main thought ends and another begins.
The other interesting thing I'm noticing among the comments is that many of you still do your Bible study with some sort of pen and paper. I'd be interested to know, for what reason do you not complete your study entirely electronic?
The other interesting thing I'm noticing among the comments is that many of you still do your Bible study with some sort of pen and paper. I'd be interested to know, for what reason do you not complete your study entirely electronic?
I like to underline and circle words that I want to do word studies on, I like to add questions and notes quickly on the paper. I sometimes draw lines between things that connect, ect. I find trying to do these things on the computer are either difficult or impossible for me. Also I find I retain things better when I read and write them out. I sometimes will even write out the biblical text by hand (If it’s not too long of a passage) just to get as many senses as possible involved.
See my screen captures and scans above.
Also, don't forget removing dots, commas, uppercases, question marks, and so on...
If one were to purchase a print Bible that didn't have chapters and verses, should that edition have page numbering?
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
If one were to purchase a print Bible that didn't have chapters and verses, should that edition have page numbering?
Not if it were printed on a scroll. [:)]
Not if it were printed on a scroll.
Totally retro...I like that!
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
Hi Ron,
I found one. It's the American Standard Version. No verses. Here are some links if you're interested:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/bks/2204294591.html
Annie
I was just wondering if anyone knew of a Bible, preferably in Logos, that did not display the verses, chapters and section headings?
Thanks
Ron
Easy, if you have smart tags, but not in Logos. Install smart tags http://wiki.logos.com/Smart_Tags then just type the reference you want to read in your word processor and select 'replace with passage'.
Logos Platinum
Windows 7 - 64 Bit
Lenovo laptop E520 i7-2640M, 2.8GHz 8G Ram, 2G Graphics
Australia
Hi,
Just came across this Bible in my library and thought it might be of interest to you The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version.
There is a way to remove verse numbers and chapters: Tools -> Copy Bible Verses -> Enter Bible Verse (or the name of the Book ex. Nahum) -> Choose from Options in the Blue Font (Copy from “Bible Text Only” from “ESV” to “Microsoft Word”) -> Open up a blank Microsoft Word document (or a blank document of your choice) -> Click “Copy and Paste” ->View your blank document which should now have your preferred verses or book pasted to it. Stay blessed.
You can also create your own styles (see the Help). If it's of any use to anyone, I like the following customized style which pastes into Word even better than it appears in the viewer for the copy style editor (it uses the Normal style when it pastes and paragraphs show up great):
%UseBibleParagraphs
%NoParFormatting
%NoCharFormatting
%NoRedLetter
%NoFootnotes
%NoCitation
=Header
<b>[FullBookName]</b>
<i>[Version]</i>
=ForEachVerse
[VerseText]
UPDATE: Sorry, when I mentioned it pasted well in Word, that was on Word 2010 for Windows 7. I just tried my MacBook Pro and it basically shows up just like the edit style viewer. Word 2011 under OS X Lion definitely functions differently with this tool.
I've got the entire New Testament of the ESV version in a Word document formatted without verses and chapters in the text. I hope to do the same to the Old Testament one of these days. I sent the text file off to an on-demand publisher and they sent me back a hardcover New Testament that reads like a regular book.
It was a fun project to do, and reading the Bible that way was a lot easier, I think. I searched long and hard for a print Bible that did the same thing, but couldn't find any I was happy with. So I made my own.
I'm not sure whether this is legal or anything, but if it is I can post the Word file here and others can make a PPB of it. I put chapter numbers in the side margins for navigation purposes, and these show up within the text when converted to a PBB, so they may need to be deleted first before compiling.
I've got the entire New Testament of the ESV version in a Word document formatted without verses and chapters in the text
I did the same thing with the NASB, however I left the chapter markers in the text. With a table of contents and the search window(added chapter milestones) I find it easier to navigate in. I used a base text with paragraphs. I agree it is much nicer to read without the clutter. I would like to have a NT in ESV and NIV, but it took me about an entire day to do it. I also converted the Word document to a pdf so I could read it on iPad. About how long do you think your project took?
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents
Hey Greg,
I understand I'm replying to a post from a couple years back and I'm sure you've already gotten a couple of questions and requests since then regarding your ESV project.
I was wondering if you had finished the whole Bible. If so and if copyright laws permit, I was wondering if you could send the word document to my e-mail and maybe give a short explanation of the on-demand publishing process.
My email is gregory dot t dot burchfield at gmail dot com
Thanks for you consideration,
Greg
I was just wondering if anyone knew of a Bible, preferably in Logos, that did not display the verses, chapters and section headings?
Thanks
Ron
You mean like Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus … Matthew, Mark Luke … Revelation? [6]
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
I was just wondering if anyone knew of a Bible, preferably in Logos, that did not display the verses, chapters and section headings?
Working on a Personal Book using public domain text, wondering if format appears useful:
Chapter and verse numbers are not displayed; does have a paragraph break between chapters (plus several more). However, each verse is tagged so right click has selection, which can be used to open another Bible (or Commentary, depending on Logos library prioritization).
Keep Smiling [:)]
each verse is tagged so right click has selection, which can be used to open another Bible
Very Nice!
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!
I was just wondering if anyone knew of a Bible, preferably in Logos, that did not display the verses, chapters and section headings?
Wonder if attached Personal Book with American Standard Version for New Testament is useful ? Each verse is tagged so can use right click for reference.
Apologies: have not added Red Letter tagging in Gospels and Acts. Wondering if New Testament Red Letter or Old Testament desired ?
By the way, John 21:17 matches a printed edition: "The Standard American Edition of the Revised Version of the Bible" that has Copyright 1901 by Thomas Nelson & Sons and Copyright 1929 by International Council of Religious Education "To Insure Purity of Text"
Personally learned public domain text has a few typographical errors compared to Logos 1901 ASV Bible resource, which have been fixed in attached Personal Book. Thankful for Logos 4 Text Comparison.
Keep Smiling [:)]
New Testament update has Red Letter completed plus words in brackets italicized along with New Testament prefaces (previous posted file had Old Testament prefaces).
If want to search for one of the 1,444 word phrase(s) added by translators can search for a bracket: [ ] This Personal Book Bible can be linked with other resources for scrolling:
If want to see chapter and verse numbers, can check "Bible Text Only"
Right click has selection option since every verse is tagged with reference.
My ASV 1901 Bible is missing the Old Testament; on my short list of things to do.
Keep Smiling [:)]
New Testament update has Red Letter completed plus words in brackets italicized along with New Testament prefaces (previous posted file had Old Testament prefaces).
Changed Bible milestone versification to use KJV numbering, the same as Logos ASV resource along with adding chapter milestones to fix a verse comparison issue for Revelation 13:1, see thread => 4.5 Beta 10 Text Comparison Puzzle for 1 Verse
Keep Smiling [:)]
New Testament update has Red Letter completed plus words in brackets italicized along with New Testament prefaces (previous posted file had Old Testament prefaces).Changed Bible milestone versification to use KJV numbering, the same as Logos ASV resource along with adding chapter milestones to fix a verse comparison issue for Revelation 13:1, see thread => 4.5 Beta 10 Text Comparison Puzzle for 1 Verse
Posted => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s in Files forum that includes zip file with Old and New Testaments.
Keep Smiling [:)]
If want to see chapter and verse numbers, can check "Bible Text Only"
I think this highlights the problem with this option! I really does something quite different then what it says!
I use another mac bible software program that does this with a simple click in the format box "Omit Entire Reference" (you can even make it the default).
I can also highlight, take notes, search, etc... all while putting chapters and verses out of my head.
In annotating I would LOVE to see the ability to tie words together with circled words and connecting lines... what an amazing, totally differentiating feature that would be!!! (and more complex/long term/requires-other-change to do then any currently planned feature out there right now!)
I would love to see this in uservoice as it seems I'm not one of few, but I'm a bit concerned for the state of real added features like this would be fighting against getting L4 up to L3 levels of functionality (e.g. GNT read aloud speed adjustment).
I can also highlight, take notes, search, etc... all while putting chapters and verses out of my head.
In annotating I would LOVE to see the ability to tie words together with circled words and connecting lines... what an amazing, totally differentiating feature that would be!!! (and more complex/long term/requires-other-change to do then any currently planned feature out there right now!)
I would love to see this in uservoice as it seems I'm not one of few,
While describing my Personal Book Bible project to couple Pastors, observed eyes light up. Personally wish for option to omit reference (chapter and verse #'s) in all Logos Bibles.
Logos User Voice suggestion => The possibility to turn off chapter and verse on screen has 3 votes; wonder about adding comments and voting ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
I don't have a Bible without verses in Logos, but there is a PDF and DOC copy of one on a website.
http://www.biblewithoutverses.com
It also have a printed version to buy if you wanted, but the digital formats are free.
I don't have a Bible without verses in Logos, but there is a PDF and DOC copy of one on a website.
http://www.biblewithoutverses.com
It also have a printed version to buy if you wanted, but the digital formats are free.
The seller might want to change the title of that in light of recent releases.
the digital formats are free
Tried to download. Aborted; Files Do Not Exist. Comment?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
Sorry try again. I fixed the link. Should of tested it before. enjoy the Bible without verse numbers! Please let me know what you think. Comment on the site if you want.
try again. I fixed the link.
Worked this time. I got the pdf version. The background information are blank pages. Is this intentional or accidental? I will use the bible in the near future and post to forum my impression. Thanks
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
Don't know if this was suggested, or if there are bibles on Logos since it was originally posted, but I wonder if it is okay to take a bible that is offered free (such as the WEB or NET) and use book to make your own version of the book? You could ostensibly mark the individual books with a heading like H1 or such, it would make it easier to find the book at least, or bookmark various section with some headings. I would think as long as it isn't for sale, why not? Any ideas?
People on this thread might be interested to know that there's been a recent wildly popular Kickstarter project to do a new version of the Bible with no verses, chapters, or headings, with great attention to design and readability. Unfortunately you've now missed out on it as it closed a couple of days ago, having exceeded its fundraising goal by a factor of almost 40! But you can still see the info and video about it here:
Don't know if this was suggested, or if there are bibles on Logos since it was originally posted,
Do you mean something like this?
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12407/318163.aspx#318163
Certainly. In any Bible, you can click on the visual filters options and select "Bible Text Only." Should work for any version.
It still has chapter and verse numbers in that mode, and the verses are separated.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
Bible removes foot notes and periscopes, it still leaves verses and chapters.
When I want to examine scripture without the versification, I normally use the bible copy command and paste it into Word.
DARN! The only reason you beat me Todd is that I stopped to make pretty pictures [:D]
BTW Thomas, thanks for teaching me the word versification! Amazing what you can learn on this forum.
This is the only way that I know of to do it, and it is how I do it. Usually when I start studying a book, I copy into word with all chapter and verse numbers removed, double or triple space it, and print and just go to town with my pen
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org
okay, how does copy command get rid of all the verse numbers in word?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
Your picture trumps my speed. [Y]
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
Well, that and I had to boot up the windows 7 VM that runs L4 to check and make sure I was remembering correctly.