Visual Markups. Suggestions & an Illustration
I love reading in version 4. The tones down colors. The font, the background, the fluid resizing, and the potential that we'll have columned formats make me even more excited to purchase more resources in the future that I may otherwise have just purchased in book form.
But then as I read I inevitably try to highlight and get all frustrated. Despite all of the high-powered search, keylinking, report generating features of Libronix, the #1 thing that we do with a library is read it. The search features get me to the resource I want to read. And when I'm reading, it's just me, my pen (in digital form this is the notes and highlighter), and the Holy Spirit.
PBBs & Visual Markups
Even if a book that I was going to read significant portions of was available in PBB format, I would purchase it from Logos if available so that I could mark it up. This is why I bought the John Owen Library and the Jonathan Edwards library and am in on prepubs of numerous public domain works. Not being able to mark up books was the fatal flaw in my mind of PBB format. And now that flaw has been introduced into my entire digital library. Visual markup is the basic, bottom of the barrel kind of stuff that appeals to the broadest crowd. It has been what has hooked a great number of my friends who I recommend Logos to.
So I beg you guys, sooner than later, please bring back the rich visual markup tools that we enjoyed in v 3.
Suggestions When Markups Are Implemented
Now onto suggestions for Markups
Right-Click Menu
Keeping with the simplicity and clean feel of version 4, make the visual markup options avaialable from the right-click menu. I have wished for this functionality in version 3, and I think it would fit with version 4 very well.
Visual Markup Overlays
There are times when visual markups are desired over a text and there are times when they're not. I have invented complex markup schemes for passages or books that I have spent a lot of time studying. In version 3, these chapters are a rainbow of color and other markups. This has proven extremely helpful for me understanding a text. Yet there are times when I have wished I could click a button and those disappear.
There are other times, when I am reading big chunks of Scripture I am highlight things like "God's Grace" or "God's verbs" or "prayer". I don't always want these on my text, but I have been able to get a birds-eye view of these themes of scripture this way. I would love to be able to apply or remove a particular visual markup overlay to the text.
Finally, in case there are problems with the import of version 3 highlights, keeping all of these in a separate layer that can be applied or removed would potentially minimize annoyance if there were any resources where these overlays did not transfer. We all survived the implementation of the improved visual markups of v3 when some of our v2 markups were mangled. We will survive a few misplaced notes or misplaced markups. But please attempt to import them.
Visual Markup Sharing
If the overlay suggestion is taken, then these visual markup overlay files could be shared or submitted as homework assignments. I am faculty at our Grace Bible Institute - where Libronix is a mandatory resource - and I have given assignments involving visual markups. It would be great if these files could be "turned in." This is not as high on my list of suggestions as the previous two.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org
Comments
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I'm with you on this Jacob. I read like you do, with a pen/highlighter in hand. My paper bibles are marked, underlined, arrows flying every which way.Jacob Hantla said:So I beg you guys, sooner than later, please bring back the rich visual markup tools that we enjoyed in v 3.
Lacking markup of some form, I have a hard time reading.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I think we're getting the message that many of you want visual markup... :-)
How important is it to have the full customizability of markup in 3.0? How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
Or did you do a lot of custom style development?
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Bob Pritchett said:
How important is it to have the full customizability of markup in 3.0? How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
takes a small negative of 4.0 off my plate. The big negative is the lack of assurance of importation from 3.0. I'm not casting judgment though, just voicing my concern. I don't expect you to speak much on it as I'm sure it takes a lot of discussion with developers to make it happen and I would rather you only make promises and comments after you know you can deliver.
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I can tell you why I never used it.. no way to print and review my bookmarks. In a book, I can flip through the pages, find my marks, and move from there. I did not find a super fast way to do it. Now I could be wrong, and I don't even have v3 running, but that, for me, would be what I would need to use a mark-up system I doubt I would use or create a special system, but a few basic colors to highlight with would be good. Then again, I know I am not the base of folks you are asking, so I will let the real markup-experts answer now :-)0
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Bob Pritchett said:
Or did you do a lot of custom style development?
I did some custom styles to highlight certain important themes, underlying key Greek words (especially where different Greek words are translated by the same word in English λογοσ vs. ρημα, e.g.), tracking pronouns with antecedents (very helpful in parts of the 1st chapter of Ephesians, e.g.), and to highlight some theologically or practically significant verses -- especially ones that make me nervous or uncomfortable. Some of that I can do with notes, and would probably create a note file for just that if necessary.
Bob Pritchett said:How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
That would be enough for me. The background images just made it hard to read the underlying text. The rest was pretty cool, and a great distraction when I was supposed to be doing in depth study. ;-)
Oh and I don't need printing capabilities for visual mark-ups. I don't know why I would ever want to. Apparently others want this, but I can't think of any reason I'd want to.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I'm with Rich...AS LONG AS there are A LOT OF STYLES AND COLORS TO CHOOSE FROM!!
Also, the printing thing...that would clinch the deal for me!
I do the same thing; read / highlight /read more / highlight more.... [:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I do the same thing; read / highlight /read more / highlight more....
Have you ever tried Highlighting the whole book and then un-highlight the passages you don't like? :-)
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Bob Pritchett said:
How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
I'd be very happy just to have a yellow highlighter !
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Damian McGrath said:Bob Pritchett said:
How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
I'd be very happy just to have a yellow highlighter !
you can even in this beta...highlight some text, right click, and select "attach note"
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Bob Pritchett said:
How important is it to have the full customizability of markup in 3.0? How do you feel about the first version of markup coming with just a set number of style palettes, all hard-coded into the system? (All font colors, all background colors, various underlines and formatting, etc.)
This sounds like a good idea.
Would it be possible if we have hard-coded markups to add markup-style to search field? i.e. only return results that have been marked up, or only return results that have been marked up with a particular style?
Bob Pritchett said:Or did you do a lot of custom style development?
I did do a moderate amount of custom style development. This would be an appreciated plus but certainly not mandatory. The custom styles are helpful in helping me remember later what I was doing when I marked something up.
Thanks, Bob
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I was thinking about markup import. This is a big deal to me because I would like to have confidence in the future to start marking up the text. I would be satisfied with importing all items highlighted with a certain style as a set and not worrying about the particular style. This seems like it would simplify the process of creating an importer tremendously as 3.0 had A LOT of style options. Just saying "add from here to here to this set of markings" seems like it would be a pretty simple task. Of course I may be over simplifying it as I don't know all the changes that were made.
Once its imported the user could re-set up the style and it would effect everything in the set. This would move the problem out of the category of unacceptable and into the category of annoyance. I'm sure some users have set up many different styles. The problem is Logos is looking at dedicating many resources to the needs of only a few users and only for the first year. Once the files have been imported, the program will never be used by the user again! I can understand where the reservation to commit to it is coming from. This would give me the confidence to mark-up my text knowing that in the future I may be inconvenienced a little bit, but Logos will work hard to make sure my work is retained.
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Bob,
Customized markups are HUGE on my list. Here is how I'd like to use it.
- I would create one markup called "Bible Periods" and have each period represented by a certain colored background. This will be quite handy particularly from 1 Kings - 2 Chronicles...coupled with the prophets.
- I would create others for topical studies (similar...but different from the Rainbow Study Bible). I could easily turn on or off these markups and have the Bible highlighted according to what topic I'm studying.
- Create my own version of the Rainbow Study Bible that dealt with major themes of the Bible with highlighted words that magnify those themes.
I've created these type highlights (years ago) in another Bible program... and would love the same capability in Logos 4.
Mitch
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http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com0 -
I have only ever used the "highlighter pen" style. I like having the different colors, but I could live with just one color. I would prefer if the markup color and the notes color were not the same. Right now using notes as a workaround I'm stuck with yellow for both.
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Pam Larson said:
I have only ever used the "highlighter pen" style. I like having the different colors, but I could live with just one color. I would prefer if the markup color and the notes color were not the same. Right now using notes as a workaround I'm stuck with yellow for both.
pam if you click on the yellow color square in the notefile, you can change the color already
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Cool! Thanks.
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Thanks. If I type a text in the notes, when I clik it, can I make it hyperlink to open my Bible?
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
Thanks. If I type a text in the notes, when I clik it, can I make it hyperlink to open my Bible?
Just type the verse reference and then the space bar after it and it will automatically hyperlink. I'm not sure how to hyperlink to other resources (or how to hyperlink a text other than a verse reference to a verse).
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob Hantla said:
Just type the verse reference and then the space bar after it and it will automatically hyperlink.
On my PC the hyperlinks have yet to work in Notes. I wonder if others are having this problem as well.
Mitch
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http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com0 -
Jacob Hantla said:
I'm not sure how to hyperlink to other resources (or how to hyperlink a text other than a verse reference to a verse).
In the formatting bar there is a hyperlink box. In another thread they describe how this is supposed to work, but I was broken in Beta 1.
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Philip Spitzer said:
In the formatting bar there is a hyperlink box. In another thread they describe how this is supposed to work, but I was broken in Beta 1.
Thanks Philip. I was trying to figure it out this morning again, and was convinced I couldn't be that stupid not to figure our how to use an intuitive hyperlink box.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Thank you Bob for asking. YES! I use the Visual Markups. Mainly in the Bible, since my daily reading and other regular using of the Bible is just Logos (I hope you like that part). I don't care for customizable markups. If you give us a standard palette of highlighting colors, I am fine with it.
Import from v3 would be gladly welcome. However it will not be the end of the world for me, if you do not do it. I will just start a new (like I always have done as I bought a new paper Bible).
VERY important for me is the ability to use Visual Markups in the new pbb's.
It would be nice to have some automated highlighting, like we have in V3. Thank you Bob for listening to our ideas. I really appreciate that.
Bohuslav
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I'd like to highlight here that GETTING PBB'S to ACT LIKE LOGOS RESOURCES is a VERY BIG thing!
Getting preexisting PBB's converted is also high on the list.!
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
It would be nice to have some automated highlighting
this is possible in 4.0 Try visual filters. type "Create Visual Filter" in the command line.
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