Downgraded?

Page 2 of 3 (46 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 45 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 11:25 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
instead it shows bronze.

Please attach a screen shot that shows Bronze.

Curious what shows in About Verbum ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3470
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 9:20 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
At any rate, I bought the full set of tools ( not much there) but notice I'm now downgraded to Bronze and thus any upgrade calculator is based on that and just duplicates much of what I already have- or so it seems.

To put it clearly, for the benefit of all:

1. "downgraded to Bronze" - No. You bought Bronze. You didn't have it before. You have resources you didn't have before because you bought Bronze. Acquiring something new is not a downgrade. NB: There is no "status" whatsoever for having a certain level of base package. The 'pseudo-status' of having a particular level of base package does not affect anything, except maybe ego. You are best off ignoring your 'status'.

2. "any upgrade calculator is based on that" The pricing in the upgrade calculator, like all dynamic pricing, is based on what resources (and features) you own. Categorically. Resources you don't own don't become cheaper because you own something else. Packages/bundles/libraries may become cheaper when you buy something because part or all of that thing was in that package. You don't pay twice for the same resource.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 12:44 PM

Dear SineNomine:
I have never purchased Bronze- ever.
Secondly. I rather resent the inference that this thread is about ego/status- it isn't, it never has been.

Its about value.

My Ford F150 truck is worth more than my Nissan car, because it cost more and holds resale value better.
It will never become something other than an F150, not a 100, not a 50, not a 25- it will always be an F150 and its value 
starts " there, at that basis.

I don't have Bronze, I have never had bronze, I have over 3 k invested, I can buy bronze several times for that.

With my next resource upgrade, I will have around 4000.00 dollars invested , if i die, i want my wife to have options on giving my libraries away ( physical and digital) or selling.

She cannot get much for a Bronze library and no matter how much people say_ Oh, it doesn't matter, your resources are your resources- I does matter because they don't pay 3k for bronze.
Secondly, Logos reshuffling the libraries revalues them and , we , the purchaser lose, not Logos.

Lastly, this thread was about the upgrade calculator not being accurate, being very confusing.
Im not the only one who thinks so.

Reporting the upgrade calculator broken is to benefit all.
Not my ego.

Posts 2189
LogosEmployee

Fr. Charles R. Matheny, I'm not sure I understand. Where are you being told that you have Bronze? If it's in the application, or on the website, can you provide a screenshot?

Also, can you explain further how the upgrade calculator is broken? Can you provide screenshots of what you are seeing, and explain what you are expecting to see?

Posts 128
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 1:21 PM

This thread is confusing.  There are two possibilities going on:

First Possibility:  Every time Logos upgrades (ie, from Version 4 --> 5 --> 6 --> 7) the Base Package Libraries are reworked.  If they weren't reworked, you wouldn't be able to upgrade from Logos 6 Anglican Gold to Logos 7 Anglican Gold, for instance.  But anytime you purchase a new library upgrade, Logos takes into account any resources you already own.  Therefore you pay the difference in price between full price and what you already own.  I had purchased Logos 6 Orthodox Gold a few months ago.  Today, I upgraded by purchasing Logos 7 Orthodox Bronze.  I received several new resources, but I didn't pay the full Bronze price because I already owned many of the resources that were included in the package.  That doesn't mean I now have a Bronze library.  If I were to try to sell it later, I would just sell it as a Logos Library, and I would provide a list of all the included resources.

Second Possibility:  The Logos website is -actually- messed up for Father Matheny.  It is not calculating the dynamic prices properly and is not crediting him with his prior purchases.  If the "New to You" dropdown is showing resources that you already have, then this could be the problem.  Mind you, the new Libraries often only include parts of collections, and you have to click the "expand" button to see what resource is actually new to you in the library - if anything.

After reading through this entire thread, I honestly can not tell which problem is happening in this situation.  I hope it gets straightened out for you, Father. :)

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 1:42 PM

Maybe it helps to go with the car analogy.  If you purchased a 2014 F150, you still own the 2014 F150 two years later.  It does not magically turn into the 2016 model.  The same with Logos 6 Platinum.  It doesn't just turn into Logos 7 Platinum two years later.  If you want the L7 Platinum model, which contains features, datasets, and resources not included in the L6 model, you have to purchase the L7 model.  (Also, you could always purchase a 2016 Nissan.  Then you'd have the 2014 F150 and the 2016 Nissan.)  The analogy breaks down, of course, because you don't have to pay a second time for the same resources, if there is overlap between packages.  So, you could purchase L7 Platinum at less than retail if you owned other packages, since it probably contains resources you've purchased before.

Posts 1516
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 2:20 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

With my next resource upgrade, I will have around 4000.00 dollars invested , if i die, i want my wife to have options on giving my libraries away ( physical and digital) or selling.

Don't worry - when people buy libraries from other people, they would likely purchase all the books they own. They don't purchase "Bronze" or "Platinum", but the sum total of everything someone has purchased. 

So, for example, someone who has Verbum 5 Capstone, and then gets Verbum 6 Gold, and then buys Verbum 7 Bronze has a library worth thousands of dollars more than someone who only has Verbum 7 Bronze. And when that person sells that Library, if they were to mention "Gold / Bronze", etc. to advertise it, it would be to say that it is V5 Capstone + V6 Gold + V7 Bronze. It's both/and, not either/or.

Nothing ever goes away, and the Bronze / Gold / etc. is actually quite meaningless - Libraries are just a big digital pile of books, on sale for a time, that are added to the books you already own! 

And - if you have Bronze but didn't want it, I would suggest simply calling and getting your money back. It was likely just an honest mistake by the sales rep you spoke with. 

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:04 PM
Dear Paul: I think you may be misunderstanding how Logos works. The 4, 5, 6, 7 have to do with software/engine- not libraries. Starter, Bronze , Silver etc have to do with library tiers ( resources ). I already paid for logos 7 thus whatever I had , Masters, Silver - whatever, should now be : Masters/Silver - whatever 7. I Paid for 7- I should have the same library but now as 7.
Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:10 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
The 4, 5, 6, 7 have to do with software/engine- not libraries.

This is simply not correct. In previous versions, the boast was always that the engine was free. We paid for resource bundles and some tools.

In version 7, we explicitly pay for a library and/or tools. The engine remains free and will be released to the public eventually.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:17 PM

Dear Fr Devin: I understand that.
The problem is in the calculator as far as i can tell- I got inconsistent ( non- repeatable ) prices the night I posted.

The main confusing part would be: If I have silver, bronze isn't an upgrade.
Granted they seem to have added resources that in prior days wasn't in bronze and I may not have, but its not an "upgrade" - its adding resources.

I have an iPhone 6s, upgrade to iOS 10 - upgrades the operating system , but does not change my phone, it doesn't become an iPhone 5s.

The upgrade calculator the other night, was basing my library on bronze- not what is in my library-, thus "new to me" was showing titles i have owned for many years.

Thus my "trying" to be a decent human being and reporting: There seems to be a problem/glitch with the upgrade calculator.

Frankly- all the Logos madness on levels makes no difference to me other than what i leave when I die, other than that, I don't care.
Most of my purchases are "sets" or individual titles I need rather than " step" upgrades that load me up with a lot of titles that have little use to my studies.

That said, when there is a good deal , I think everyone wants to be know that and cannot is the upgrade calculator malfunctions.

Sheesh, should have been a simple thing- grin.

Grace and Peace

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:29 PM

Hi Andrew: As stated the other night: Sales stated i had Bronze, didn't really click for me.
The night I posted I tried the calculator from differing machines/browsers to see if it was a browser/machine issue- results were mixed- inconsistent - non repeatable- indicating some type of error.

Verbum calculator however was better, seemed to "see" the library in my account/profile.

Just tried to let someone know there was an issue.

Couple people asked me to look in specific place from my library designation- nothing there.

However, to my understanding, my download should have no effect on that- calculator based on purchase history/profile/account- unless I misunderstood Tech support when we had so many issues at launch of 6.

I will check again after dinner, perhaps servers were taxed, perhaps just a temp glitch- who knows.

I will say, I do not like paying to upgrade and being listed with a lower tier library.
I fully understand have a middle tier library means you have the libraries below it.

I just believe is one has Silver or Gold etc and they pay for the upgrade to 7 they should then have Silver of Gold 7.

Library didn't change and customer paid for the upgraded tools.

That makes sense to me.

Blessings.

Oh and, not sure how one takes "screenshots" - I just work on my computer and my work has never required that, not a "gamer" either so- limited to what I know.

Thanks and blessings.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:34 PM

is this what your looking for Andrew?


Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 6:45 PM

Dear Russel: The latter is the main issue.
The only thing different from what your saying is: If you had Orthodox Silver 6 and paid for the 7 upgrade ( all the tools/software engine is usually free after a bit) then you should then have Orthodox Silver 7.

Sales had me at Bronze apparently and calculator seemed the same.
After thinking on it a couple days and remembering what "i think" I learned back in 6- likely there was an issue reading the resource file connected to my account and it just "plugged me in" at bronze, thus "new to me" showed resources I already have.

Hopefully its all fixed now.
I don't usually jump at early adoption but, was excited to see 7-  differed gratification got swallowed up and - there ya go.

Btw- How do you like the Orthodox Library?

Blessings

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 7:12 PM

FWIW- Upgrade calculator now seems to function correctly.
Very little duplication, those areas maybe updated ( Catechism of Catholic Church etc) , small items.
Prices are consistent and make sense.

Same is true on each denominational category , its properly showing what i have and do not have, calculating from there apparently.

Thanks 

Posts 128
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 7:21 PM

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is actually showing correctly. They released the international version, so if you bought the Library you would end up with two CCCs.  I added the Verbum Starter Library and that's what I have now!

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 7:31 PM

Thanks Russel: I figured it was something like that.
Btw- Russell is my middle name- grin.

Here's a hoot- I have over 3200.00 invested. 
Diamond is 3400.00 and change.
To upgrade to Diamond would cost me 1384.00! ( Verbum) - guess i should have stayed with step upgrade program instead of adding library sets.

Actually it makes sense, a great deal in that package I don't have so, it makes sense.
Just looks funny ya know.

Still no Balthasar! hahaha

Im just glad the upgrade calculator isn't nuts this time.




Posts 128
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 8:03 PM

Father,

My son's name is Russell (yes, he's got two 'ells'!), so it's nice to meet yet another one of us! Well, I'm glad it seems to be working correctly for you now.

I do like the Orthodox package. I had L6 Orthodox Gold, and I like it a lot. The upgrade to L7 Orthodox Bronze is a little underwhelming, but considering I was coming from 6 Gold, I knew I had most of the L7 Bronze library already! The upgrade price was mostly the new L7 features. But, I really want to get L7 Gold so that I can get Part 2 of the Popular Patristics series.

I do wish that Logos had the Orthodox Study Bible, though. As it is, I usually use the RSV 2nd Catholic Edition, which is a fine translation. I'll also use the EOB, which is New Testament only.

Posts 3834
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 7:15 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
The only thing different from what your saying is: If you had Orthodox Silver 6 and paid for the 7 upgrade ( all the tools/software engine is usually free after a bit) then you should then have Orthodox Silver 7.

I used to think that.  Now I just accept, as many have noted on this thread, that that is not the case.  Pretty much each rendition of the base package range (Starter-Portfolio) is recast for each new version of Logos.  That never negates that you had Verbum Master in 6 (or whatever it was).  

You used iPhone/iOS as an example.  Perhaps you would draw a more direct parallel by saying you have an i5 core PC that is running Verbum 6, now Verbum 7.  But what is different is that Logos allows you to purchase a set of books/tools at a better rate per book/tool for each software upgrade release than it would cost to buy those books/tools individually.  Perhaps the parallel would be if Apple allowed you to buy some high end apps at a greatly reduced rate, packaging those in groups with titles like bronze, silver, and gold.  And then they would reconfigure those groupings with each major iOS release.  You would always have that set of apps that you bought with iOS 8 (Gold), but when it came to iOS 9, you would not have to buy the iOS 9 Gold, especially if you did not have the money, but you might purchase the iOS bronze, and score a few nice apps to add to those you already purchased with iOS 8.  

Anyway, glad to hear the calculator seems to be working.  That might have contributed to your concern and confusion.  Not sure we could explain things much differently about why you are not really downgraded from Verbum 6 to 7, even though I get it.  I bought Portfolio in either 4 or 5 as I said above, but then purchased only Gold or something on the next software upgrade. I got the new software, just a different package of books to go with it.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 4722
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 11:22 PM

Friedrich:
Perhaps the parallel would be if Apple allowed you to buy some high end apps at a greatly reduced rate, packaging those in groups with titles like bronze, silver, and gold.  And then they would reconfigure those groupings with each major iOS release.  You would always have that set of apps that you bought with iOS 8 (Gold), but when it came to iOS 9, you would not have to buy the iOS 9 Gold, especially if you did not have the money, but you might purchase the iOS bronze, and score a few nice apps to add to those you already purchased with iOS 8.  

That is a great parallel Friedrich...

Of course Apple (and the like) do do this. Take, for example, 'Pages' cheap at one time with an OS upgrade. Just like a Logos resource.

Incrementally upgraded for free with various versions and tweaks. Just like a Logos.

And just like Logos every so often they may say 'We have made such changes to Pages it is like a new program' here is a new deal.

You can keep the old version and it will function just fine - or you can, if you value the new features, get the new version at $xxx.

What I don't understand is why anyone would buy resources that they don't value just to get a label on a menu that is hidden!

Posts 275
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 12:49 AM

Perhaps a terminology change would be helpful here. Instead of Logos 7 packages (gold, bronze, etc...) you buy a Logos 7 Resource pack (whatever flavor) and have a Logos Engine edition that is either starter or full (or any other editions). That way, in the future when I buy logos 9, I see that I have Logos 9 full engine and Logos 9 Gold resource pack, Logos 8 starter pack, and Logos 7 bronze pack as an example. This could help end some of the confusion that I have a logos "level" to maintain instead of realizing it is just a set of resources I bought with the new engine at a particular time in the past.

Page 2 of 3 (46 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS