Bob: The mistake of bloat v real value increases

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This post has 74 Replies | 6 Followers

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Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 5:40 PM

Ok i'll add my two cents.  

Let me say I am a new user of Logos, with under a year of experience, so I don't claim to know exactly what the long-term users are going through.  But I can say that since I began using Logos, I've had zero issues with them.  The customer service I receive from anyone I've interacted with (especially with my dedicated sales guy) is far and away the best customer service I've ever received from a company.

A common complaint I hear about Logos is how slow it is.  How much time it takes to load.  How the performance pales in comparison to other software.  I get that, believe me.  I recently upgraded my laptop so I could have better performance on Logos, among other reasons.  But I don't see Logos being any different than any other "heavy" program, like Photoshop or a video editing program.  Going in to these programs, the user knows they are going to require a strong computer to accomplish what is needed.  You wouldn't try to run one of those programs on a machine that is old, or a machine that does not meet the minimum spec requirement.  I attribute Logos to the same type of category.  It is a resource heavy program, but take a step back and look at all that it does.  Logos is a much more beneficial program than something like Photoshop or a video editing program, and yet nobody ever complains that those types of programs require a machine that can handle it.

I get there are many people who have invested thousands upon thousands of dollars into a program and feel they aren't getting their moneys worth, but to be honest, it is 2018 and look at the type of software we have access to.  We are beyond words blessed with software like Logos, and to be honest, if you don't like it, there are other competitors to go with.

Logos 8 - Reformed Baptist Pastor - Student at MBTS - theologynights.com

Posts 150
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 6:10 PM

Brad:

 We are beyond words blessed with software like Logos, and to be honest, if you don't like it, there are other competitors to go with.

And Logos nor many of us want this, and really is an over simplification of the issues. Sure that may in some ways be the easy road, but I believe all of us want Logos to succeed and why we have invested so much. And this isn't the first time they have made a change in this fashion, and that ultimately was another big reason for the outcry among all the other issues people brought up. 

But comments like this are frankly very disheartening to see...  

Posts 100
Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 6:36 PM

Can I ask what is wrong with saying if you are unhappy with a company to leave that company and go to a competitor?

Logos 8 - Reformed Baptist Pastor - Student at MBTS - theologynights.com

Posts 150
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 7:11 PM

Because it is an over simplified non-solution to the issues and speaks to limiting the voice of the customer. Basically your saying shut up and go away.

Most people see the extreme value in Logos and have invested in it, and would invest more if that investment made sense. This current action didn't to many of us and we expressed that. Nothing at all wrong with that, and from what I have seen all posts were rather well reasoned and spoke to the passion we have in Logos. And many of posts I also saw only spoke of cancelling a subscription not abandoning the software completely, in other words we were upset with a policy change not the product as a whole. 

And then just say if you don't like it leave? Sorry, but is rather rude and non-productive. Even Bob when defending their decision was never like that, and I respect him for that, and I believe it was because he knows the passion we have for Logos and want it to succeed as much as he does. He would have accepted if people did leave, wouldn't have liked it, but I think on some level understood the decision. And if they would have stuck to the decision, I don't think many would have completely left as you suggest. I think we would all still be here contributing as we always have, giving the feedback we have always done to try to make Logos better in terms of content and performance.

Posts 10329
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 7:33 PM

Brad:

Can I ask what is wrong with saying if you are unhappy with a company to leave that company and go to a competitor?

Since you asked.

You're describing 'customer churn'. And, in theory, it should be the last choice. The customer (in this case) looses about 80% of his investment, plus learning. The company has to expend marketing bucks just to find someone else willing to pay (in this case) premium prices.

Far better to communicate. Cheap. Customer surveys, forums, a manager strolling around a restaurant. Many ways.

I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.


Posts 1120
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 10:32 PM

Denise:

Far better to communicate. Cheap. Customer surveys, forums, a manager strolling around a restaurant. Many ways.

I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.

As noted, Logos/Faithlife has a long history of shooting first, aiming second. I personally think it's largely unnecessary & avoidable, but it seems to be how they roll. They do something the customers really don't want, the forums blaze, Bob corrects & does the right thing, and things mostly work out fine in the end. (Although, I think they would work out better for customers & more profitably for FL if they did try to think things through a little better to avoid these conflagrations. The supply of old customers' good will is not endless.)

Moreover, Bob has invited people to give feedback even if negative, and largely the company is very responsive too it.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2018 10:46 PM

Andrew116:
Here's what Topic Guide brings up for Socinianism. Only one entry found:

Topic Guide and Search results depend on Library resources (personally have 4 Topic links, which could have been more):

Created thread => Bug 7.14 Beta 1 - Theological Headword phrase not found in Heading Text, Large Text search

IVP New Dictionary of Theology headword is phrase: "Socinus and Socinianism"

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 7:45 AM

Even the threads in this forum are becoming bloatware. I read the first page then when I got to the bottom and saw there were three more pages of presumably the same stuff, I gave up.

I just wish that Logos would go back to being Logos and send Faithlife packing.

Posts 1413
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 7:53 AM

Denise:

Brad:

Can I ask what is wrong with saying if you are unhappy with a company to leave that company and go to a competitor?

Since you asked.

You're describing 'customer churn'. And, in theory, it should be the last choice. The customer (in this case) looses about 80% of his investment, plus learning. The company has to expend marketing bucks just to find someone else willing to pay (in this case) premium prices.

Far better to communicate. Cheap. Customer surveys, forums, a manager strolling around a restaurant. Many ways.

I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.

A very kind, helpful, and appropriate response, Denise.  

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 9:26 AM

Denise:

Brad:

Can I ask what is wrong with saying if you are unhappy with a company to leave that company and go to a competitor?

Since you asked.

You're describing 'customer churn'. And, in theory, it should be the last choice. The customer (in this case) looses about 80% of his investment, plus learning. The company has to expend marketing bucks just to find someone else willing to pay (in this case) premium prices.

Far better to communicate. Cheap. Customer surveys, forums, a manager strolling around a restaurant. Many ways.

I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.

Good points Denise.

Just imagine where FL and we would be if all of us that were unhappy with FL dropping Now subscribers had not voiced our unhappiness and simply left for another package.

Posts 100
Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 10:37 AM

I feel like most are missing the point of why I said "if you are unhappy with a company leave and go to a competitor."  I certainly did not mean jump ship because of the issues you all had with Logos Now.  What I was referring to is the overall theme of the forums.  People complaining about how bad Logos has been for years.  People saying stuff like this has happened for years.  That's what I don't get.  Again, I know I am new to the Logos game, so I won't try to say I understand all the pain of the users who have had Logos for many years.  But the general theme of the forums is Logos is a horrible platform with bad customer service and always messes things up for the users.  That is simply why I made the comment about switching to a competitor.  

Logos 8 - Reformed Baptist Pastor - Student at MBTS - theologynights.com

Posts 67
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 12:08 PM

Denise:
I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.
You make a good case that this is a strategy. The mea culpa makes the boo boo all better, Then March madness reduces the whole fiasco to yesterday's  news. Brilliant. If there  indeed is a  think tank plotting these events, They are playing chess, and I am playing checkers.

But I still ain't subscribing to nuthin.

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 12:25 PM

Paul C:

Denise:
I suspect this is maybe the 6th time this has happened here, that I've observed.. Bob tends to put his (or staff's) ideas out there, and test the waters. Typically he watches the conflagration for maybe 3 days or so, presumably to see where the heartburn might be. And then the lengthy explanation plus mea culpa. And both parties keep on trucking. Unusual, maybe. But effective.
You make a good case that this is a strategy. The mea culpa makes the boo boo all better, Then March madness reduces the whole fiasco to yesterday's  news. Brilliant. If there  indeed is a  think tank plotting these events, They are playing chess, and I am playing checkers.

But I still ain't subscribing to nuthin.

Interesting premiss Denise. I'm not sure what I think about that. I would hate to believe that but I see how someone could come to this conclusion. Since I don't know the validity of the premiss, I will give Bob the benefit of the doubt on this.

Posts 9016
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2018 2:46 PM

Marshall Harrison:
I will give Bob the benefit of the doubt on this.

I think that is the best way to go.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 67
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2018 4:41 AM

 

Marshall Harrison:
Since I don't know the validity of the premiss, I will give Bob the benefit of the doubt on this.
The jury is still out for some. It would seem that all this deliberation has failed to convince some to subscribe.

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