FEATURE REQUEST - DATE PICKER for Lectionary on Home Page

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Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 30 2018 11:36 PM

I love having the Daily Lectionary quick link for Today's Readings available on the home page.  I use this all the time.

I wish that we could right click the "Today" link and select a date right from the Home Page Card (I am aware that you can open it up then select a new date).  That would be very helpful!

Also, I do miss the Readings themselves being listed on the Home Card (this was removed in V8/L8 but was present on the home page in V7/L7).  Can this be brought back?

Posts 116
LogosEmployee
Donald Antenen (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 8:45 AM

Hi Chris!

We discussed this issue here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/173848.aspx

It's definitely on the list of things we are working on updating in Verbum 8.

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 8:50 AM

awesome! Thanks so much!

Posts 184
LogosEmployee

Hello all. Thanks for sharing your feedback about Lectionary card. 

When we set out to design the new Homepage, one of our guiding principles is that the Homepage is not a place to *get work done*, but a place to launch you in to the work. 

We removed the date picker functionality as a result of that guiding principle. 

We've heard loud and clear that the date picker functionality is really important to many people who are part of a liturgical tradition. 

We're going to bring the date picker functionality back to this card as soon as we can. I'm working with our design team on how we'll do that. We'll get it prioritized and will start work on it. When we have a date for it's release, the Verbum team will announce. 

I hope that in the meantime I hope you enjoy some of the great tools and content we launched with 8. 

Cheers,

Daniel

Product Manager

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:22 PM

Daniel Di Bartolo:
We're going to bring the date picker functionality back to this card as soon as we can. I'm working with our design team on how we'll do that. We'll get it prioritized and will start work on it. When we have a date for it's release, the Verbum team will announce. 

Please reassure me that you will also straighten out the mess that was made of Saints which was built to work with a specific sanctoral calendar i.e. Saints. Bellingham, WA: Verbum, 2013.

The problem is that this resource is in alphabetic order and the new card assumes calendar order. 

Because it would allow for users to create their own PB sanctoral cycles and allows a number of existing resources to be used, my preference is that the resource have a new edition rather than reverting the behavior back.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 184
LogosEmployee

Hi all, 

We're working on bringing back the date-picker functionality. 

Does this meet your Lectionary card needs? 

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 8:40 PM
That would be great! Not sure if you could also list the readings on the card like the box in Verbum 7 had? That way we can see what the Scripture passages are from the card itself without having to open the card to see the list (opening the card would actually show the passage), but if the card could have the scripture listing that would be great!
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 8:42 PM

Daniel Di Bartolo:
Does this meet your Lectionary card needs? 

Almost or I would say yes except ...there is a related issue of multiple entries for the same day, not common but it does need to be handled - on the card and from the date picker. And for some lectionaries, what is the behavior if there is no entry for the selected date?

Cases to look at to be sure you have things handled using Catholic lectionary:

  • Christmas - multiple services for a single day
  • Easter - vigil has maximum number of readings for a service; multiple services for a single day
  • with the current state of how I can view the lectionary it's not easy to check for choice of celebration - I think Thanksgiving is an example
  • no service -Saturday before Easter; any weekday for all but the daily RCL versions

If scriptures are shown one must handle

  • long/short forms of the reading See Fifth Sunday of Lent 
  • alternative readings See Monday of the First Week of Advent
  • choice between sets of readings See Presentation of the Virgin Mary

Another issue: one should be able to place a lectionary with only future dates on the Home Page e.g. when someone build the Season of Creation lectionary as a shared PB, there is no need to build in prior dates ... and the season only includes 4 Sundays of September ... but one needs to be able to see them in advance for planning purposes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 8:49 PM

Chris K:
but if the card could have the scripture listing that would be great!

I agree with you that having scripture listed is desirable. IIRC it is on Fr. Devin's must have list.  But we also have to have it handle all situations - multiple services for a given liturgical day ; choice of celebration for a given liturgical date (optional memorials); no services for the day (Holy Saturday); if readings are included the Easter Vigil has something like 24 readings ... And that's just thinking of 1 lectionary Wink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1073
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 8:56 PM

Chris K:
That would be great! Not sure if you could also list the readings on the card like the box in Verbum 7 had? That way we can see what the Scripture passages are from the card itself without having to open the card to see the list (opening the card would actually show the passage), but if the card could have the scripture listing that would be great!

Seconded; please restore this. Also please restore the ability to open just the Lectionary rather defaulting to your gargantuan layout.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 8:59 PM

Sean:

Seconded; please restore this. Also please restore the ability to open just the Lectionary rather defaulting to your gargantuan layout.

i agree!  I prefer we have the option to just open the lectionary itself. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 9:04 PM

Sean:
Also please restore the ability to open just the Lectionary rather defaulting to your gargantuan layout.

I may mis-remember, but isn't this properly a matter of saving a lectionary only layout as the homepage lectionary layout? I'd prefer consistency in how defaults are overridden rather than a new mechanism ... I wouldn't be keen on different behavior if you click different places on the card unless there are a group of cards with that behavior.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1073
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 9:07 PM

Chris K:

Sean:

Seconded; please restore this. Also please restore the ability to open just the Lectionary rather defaulting to your gargantuan layout.

i agree!  I prefer we have the option to just open the lectionary itself. 

I see we do have the means of changing the default layouts that open:

So that's nice. But the other L7 functions like changing the date or just opening the Lectionary need to be restored. I don't know if they were simplified for beginning users, but a loss of functionality is rarely good.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 9:18 PM

Sean:
I don't know if they were simplified for beginning users, but a loss of functionality is rarely good.

They were changed for a couple of reasons:

  • possibly the designer not knowing lectionaries and their use intimately and running out of time for the iterative process to get it right
  • for certain, the behavior of a card-style UI is intended to be very clean and simple so that it will work across a wide range of screen sizes. This results in a pick from a card/selection options on the next page style of interface ... the loss of home page functionality holds for nearly all the cards. IIRC Reading Plans manage to retain a bit of home page functionality.

I am actually more concerned with the loss of functionality in the Saints tool where it appears that an intentional change was made without understanding that it was incompatible with the L7 functionality ... even conceptually incompatible.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 11:37 PM

Daniel Di Bartolo:

Hi all, 

We're working on bringing back the date-picker functionality. 

Does this meet your Lectionary card needs? 

Thanks Daniel. That would be the absolute bare minimum needed for it to work. However, I would much prefer that choosing the date simply update the card. There are a few reasons for this.

First, it allows the possibility of future developments along the lines of what MJ has been mentioning, where one might be able to choose from different options available on that date. That would be a really nice addition for both the Lectionary and Saint cards. Secondly, I have with some frequency found myself using the date picker to search for a feast day, when I remember it is around a certain date, but am not sure exactly which it is. I would choose the dates until I found it.

Thirdly, currently the only reliable way to correctly "navigate" the Lectionary layout to a certain liturgical date is from this card. That is, once I open the Lectionary layout to a certain date, I don't have a reliable way to navigate the whole layout to a different date except from the homepage card. This is the case even if I put the Lectionary-date-based-resources into a linkset. They simply don't navigate reliably together, even though they try.

Verbum allows users to place Lectionaries, Missals, and resources like "Catholic Daily Readings" in the same linkset. However, they don't navigate together reliably. This is something that could and should be fixed. Once it is fixed, the default Liturgy layout should be updated to automatically place all Lectionary-based-resources in Linkset B by default. That will help quite a bit! It would also help if the Lectionary-based-resources actually included a calendar drop-down in the navigation bar, so that you could type into the navigation bar, or open the calendar-drop-down.

This is a very different situation from the Passage Layout, where I can simply type in a new passage, and everything navigates correctly. This makes the Passage Layout more flexible and usable than the Lectionary layout.

...

Regarding the question as to whether to open the Lectionary layout or only the Catholic Daily Readings or equivalent resource when you click on the card, personally I prefer that it open the layout. In v7, both options were actually present. If you had resources already open, it would simply open the Catholic Daily Readings. If nothing was open, it would open the layout. I never was a fan of that behavior, but it could be a compromise solution.

Another option would be to simply add an option to the "..." menu where the "Remove card" option appears, which would allow you to specify whether the Layout or the resource opens. That would be ideal solution I think, as there are understandably different preferences regarding this.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 11:41 PM

Fr Devin Roza:
First, it allows the possibility of future developments along the lines of what MJ has been mentioning,

The code needs to handle them correctly whether or not they are made visible to the user.  Think of them as a minimum set of test cases that must work in the solution even if work merely means show the first you run into.

Daniel -

I have no objections to any of the options Fr. Devin suggests ... not always my first choice but nothing objectionable.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2
Fr Brian Cavanaugh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2018 11:41 AM

Daniel,

This works for me quite well, thank you. I do agree with some of the other comments about including multiple readings for a single day. Also, is the Saints card synced with the date-picker for the Readings? That would be a great feature, or a date-picker for the Saints card.

Also, I would love to customize my Homepage as my workplace. I really DO NOT like the scrolling list that currently is there. I realize it might be a generational "thing." I'm in my 70s and like things clear and simple that I control. All these cards are of was e of space and clutter up the screen. I'd like to delete/add what I want on the first screen, so I can have better functionality. This is a tool for enhancing my research; not a community gathering place. IMHO.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2018 12:02 PM

Fr Brian Cavanaugh:
Also, I would love to customize my Homepage as my workplace. I really DO NOT like the scrolling list that currently is there. I realize it might be a generational "thing." I'm in my 70s and like things clear and simple that I control. All these cards are of was e of space and clutter up the screen. I'd like to delete/add what I want on the first screen, so I can have better functionality. This is a tool for enhancing my research; not a community gathering place. IMHO.

You have found that you can customize the top portion with the circled plus sign? It took me a while to find it so I thought I'd mention it. Customizing the bottom portion is coming.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2018 12:16 PM

Daniel Di Bartolo:
Does this meet your Lectionary card needs? 

For a Lectionary Card on the Home Screen it is the minimum.

However I would like to see the readings for the Sunday on the card as well.

If there are, in a particular lectionary multiple services on a single day then the services could be listed and the readings shown in a pop-up?

Posts 184
LogosEmployee

For those who would like multiple readings listed on the card... how far in advance do you usually read? What is your primary use case for accessing different dates' readings from the Homepage? 

Thanks for helping us understand what you'd like to have here. 

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