ANNOUNCEMENT: End of support for Windows 7, Windows 8.1 & MacOS 10.11–10.13
Summary
On February 4, 2020, the operating systems below will enter Maintenance Support status:
- Windows 7
- Windows 8.1
- 32-bit versions of Windows 10
- MacOS 10.11 "El Capitan"
- MacOS 10.12 "Sierra"
- MacOS 10.13 "High Sierra"
By the end of 2020, these operating systems will no longer be supported for Logos Bible Software.
Background
Microsoft has announced that Windows 7 will be "end of life" on January 14, 2020. While we don't anticipate any immediate problems using Logos on Windows 7, it will not be a priority to maintain backward compatibility with an operating system that is no longer supported by its provider. We will move Windows 7 to maintenance support status at the next scheduled version, 8.11 on February 4, 2020.
Furthermore, only a small segment of Logos users are running on the older operating systems named above. In order to develop and test the application more efficiently, all of these operating systems will enter maintenance support at the same time.
What does "Maintenance Support" mean?
Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them.
If at any point we should discover that we are no longer able to ship updates to older operating systems, or some other serious issue arises that makes them incompatible with Logos, we will end support without further advanced notice. In any case, all of the operating systems above will be unsupported by the end of 2020.
Comments
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them.
The Table on the Free Support page implies no support for 'Old OS' in the Supported column (which applies to the App); which doesn't distinguish whether the "Old" is Maintenance or Unsupported. The above description of "Maintenance" for OS is clearer, but the Table implies that a Maintenance/Unsupported app could receive updates for "Old" OS!
By "Logos 8 will continue to receive updates", I think you mean (generally) that updated versions of a Supported/Maintenance App will still be shipped to a Maintenance OS; whereas you will not ship a Supported/Maintenance App to an Unsupported OS!?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks for the heads up on this. I'm one of those who is still using Windows 7 which I have enjoyed for many years. I know this is coming to an end soon which was expected at some point.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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By the way, if you still have Win7, see this reply to this thread (April, 2019) for information about upgrading to Win10 free:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/181032/1047105.aspx#1047105
I had bought a couple of refurbished desktops that still had Win7 just after the free Win10 upgrade window had (officially) closed. I was happy to see that post. My experience with the upgrade was painless.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Dave Hooton said:
The Table on the Free Support page implies no support for 'Old OS' in the Supported column (which applies to the App)
Logos 8.11 is the last "Supported" release for Windows 7. Logos 8.12 will be a "Supported" release for Windows 10 and, if technically possible, a "Maintenance" release for Windows 7. As documented, "Maintenance" releases do have support for older OSes and are released to allow the latest resources to be read.
In the past, the "Supported" release was, say, Logos 7.4, and the "Maintenance" release was Logos 6.14 SR-4. In this deprecation plan, the same Logos 8.x release will be both "Supported" and "Maintenance" depending on the OS you try to run it on (and eventually that OS will be "Unsupported").
We're promising that Logos 8.11 will install on Windows 7; we're not promising anything after that. We feel this is friendlier than taking explicit steps to prevent Logos 8.12 from installing because the table "implies no support for 'Old OS'".
Dave Hooton said:which doesn't distinguish whether the "Old" is Maintenance or Unsupported.
I don't know what you mean by this.
Dave Hooton said:The above description of "Maintenance" for OS is clearer, but the Table implies that a Maintenance/Unsupported app could receive updates for "Old" OS!
This is correct (for "Maintenance", not "Unsupported"). When Logos 6 & Windows Vista were in "Maintenance" support, Logos 6 kept receiving updates (the latest was Logos 6.14 SR-5) until we changed it to "Unsupported" when Logos 7.7 shipped; compare the dates on https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_6_Release_Notes and https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_7_Release_Notes.
Dave Hooton said:By "Logos 8 will continue to receive updates", I think you mean (generally) that updated versions of a Supported/Maintenance App will still be shipped to a Maintenance OS; whereas you will not ship a Supported/Maintenance App to an Unsupported OS!?
I think what you're saying here is correct, but I don't understand the "!?" at the end. We will not ship updates to an Unsupported OS; this should not be surprising.
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I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance. But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10. I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).
I‘ve literally spent thousands of dollars on Logos products in the last year or two—as well as referred many people in the church I pastor to the Logos app. (and many preacher friends). I sure would hate to lose all of this somehow.
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Puddin’ said:
I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance. But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10. I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).
No, not at all.
So long as you keep you Mac upto date with MacOS updates, you'll be able to continue to use Logos in the future.
MacOS is currently on version 10.14 (with 10.15 coming soon). The announcement is only saying that by February 2020 you'll need to update to that version. That will be no problem unless your Mac is more than seven years old. You'll need:
- MacBook: Early 2015 or newer
- MacBook Air: Mid 2012 or newer
- MacBook Pro: Mid 2012 or newer
- Mac Mini: Late 2012 or newer
- iMac: Late 2012 or newer
- iMac Pro
- Mac Pro: Late 2013 or newer; Mid 2010 or Mid 2012 if upgraded with a recommended Metal-capable GPU
If you have a Mac that's older than that, you'll probably still be able to use Logos, but new features won't be available.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I have a 2008 MacBook Pro and it will not run Logos at all. I can still use the web version until I get a newer computer but a Mac as old as mine can only run up to IOS ver 10.10.5 so the OS on mine cannot be updated anymore. My time is up so time for a new one.
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Craig Ostrander said:
I have a 2008 MacBook Pro and it will not run Logos at all. I can still use the web version until I get a newer computer but a Mac as old as mine can only run up to IOS ver 10.10.5 so the OS on mine cannot be updated anymore. My time is up so time for a new one.
The 2008 MacBook Pro can run OS X 10.11 El Capitan, which Logos 8 will run fine on (until 2020).
Here's the official Apple link to confirm, with a download link: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206886
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:OS X 10.11 El Capitan
A minor clarification: the correct terminology now is macOS. They dropped the term "OS X" in 2016. However, El Capitan predates the name change so perhaps you are right? [:P]
Craig Ostrander said:IOS ver 10.10.5
The term "iOS" refers to the operating system for the iPhone and until recently iPad.
Mark Barnes said:The 2008 MacBook Pro can run OS X 10.11 El Capitan
That is an interesting point. Is there a reason you haven't upgraded to this Craig? If you want to get just a little more life out of the computer, I would suggest wiping the computer and installing El Capitan. If you do so, make sure to backup anything of importance!
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Logos 8.11 is the last "Supported" release for Windows 7. Logos 8.12 will be a "Supported" release for Windows 10 and, if technically possible, a "Maintenance" release for Windows 7. As documented, "Maintenance" releases do have support for older OSes and are released to allow the latest resources to be read.
Then let's start with the understanding that the Maintenance entry in the table under Support Status will read "Logos 8.12+ on Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1....". Then I can understand to read the Maintenance column in the next table.
Otherwise, the understanding is that Logos 8.0+ is Supported on the operating systems listed in the Supported entry, and not supported on the operating systems listed in the Unsupported entry.
We're promising that Logos 8.11 will install on Windows 7; we're not promising anything after that. We feel this is friendlier than taking explicit steps to prevent Logos 8.12 from installing because the table "implies no support for 'Old OS'".
We will not ship updates to an Unsupported OS; this should not be surprising.
Unless Windows 7 is a mistake, you're implying that Logos 8.0+ is supported on (or compatible with) a currently Unsupported OS (Windows 7 and earlier). It makes sense that you meant Windows 7 SP1, and that you will ship 8.12+ as long as the OS is in Maintenance.
So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)? It implies no support, as with other blank entries. A dash "--" would be more meaningful, as it is strictly only compatible with Supported OS (some of which could be considered "Old"). If I understand from the first table that certain versions are compatible with a "Maintenance" OS, then I will understand the "Some" entry in the Maintenance column.
But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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JT (alabama24) said:
A minor clarification: the correct terminology now is macOS. They dropped the term "OS X" in 2016. However, El Capitan predates the name change so perhaps you are right?
Apple still call El Capitan OS X! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206886
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Apple still call El Capitan OS X!
Interesting! In fact, there is a hard line at El Capitan (emphasis mine):
Apple Support said:OS X El Capitan remains available for Mac computers that can't upgrade to macOS Mojave, High Sierra, or Sierra
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Mark Barnes said:Puddin’ said:
I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance. But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10. I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).
No, not at all.
So long as you keep you Mac upto date with MacOS updates, you'll be able to continue to use Logos in the future.
MacOS is currently on version 10.14 (with 10.15 coming soon). The announcement is only saying that by February 2020 you'll need to update to that version. That will be no problem unless your Mac is more than seven years old. You'll need:
- MacBook: Early 2015 or newer
- MacBook Air: Mid 2012 or newer
- MacBook Pro: Mid 2012 or newer
- Mac Mini: Late 2012 or newer
- iMac: Late 2012 or newer
- iMac Pro
- Mac Pro: Late 2013 or newer; Mid 2010 or Mid 2012 if upgraded with a recommended Metal-capable GPU
If you have a Mac that's older than that, you'll probably still be able to use Logos, but new features won't be available.
Got it! Thanks much Mark.
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Bradley, could you respond to my previous post.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Then let's start with the understanding that the Maintenance entry in the table under Support Status will read "Logos 8.12+ on Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1....". Then I can understand to read the Maintenance column in the next table.
It seems reasonable to assume that the Maintenance entry will be filled in on 4 February 2020 when Windows 7 SP1 enters maintenance support.
Dave Hooton said:Unless Windows 7 is a mistake
It was... metonymy? [:)]
Yes, I meant Windows 7 SP1.
Dave Hooton said:So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)?
I think you're reading too much into this table. It's meant to be a quick summary of the support levels, not a definitive answer to every question.
Dave Hooton said:But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?
This is not really a meaningful combination of row and column values. Perhaps it should say "N/A".
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Dave Hooton said:
So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)?
I think you're reading too much into this table. It's meant to be a quick summary of the support levels, not a definitive answer to every question.
Possibly. But the term "Old OS Compatibility" has always seemed incongruous. "Old OS Support" wouldn't raise any questions!
Dave Hooton said:But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?
This is not really a meaningful combination of row and column values. Perhaps it should say "N/A".
Just make it blank, along with "New OS Support", etc.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
Microsoft has announced that Windows 7 will be "end of life" on January 14, 2020.
What will become the minimum supported Windows 10 version ? => https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet (Windows 10 version 1709 has Microsoft support ending for Education on April 14, 2020)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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What will become the minimum supported Windows 10 version ?
It's currently Windows 10 Anniversary Update (aka 1607, 10.0.14393).
Due to end of support from Microsoft, this will probably be increased to Windows 10 1809 but that change hasn't been made officially yet.
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Important Update for 32-bit Windows 10
We are extending the list of operating systems in the original announcement to include 32-bit Windows 10.
Logos 4 through Logos 8 have supported both 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Windows. (Logos has been 64-bit only on Mac OS X since OS X 10.7 "Lion".)
The share of customers running a 32-bit operating system has fallen from around 20% (when Logos 4 launched) to well under 1%, and most of those are running Windows 7, which we are going to stop supporting (see the original announcement in this thread).
In order to concentrate our development efforts on serving the vast majority of our customers, and to eliminate the extra testing we have to perform on 32-bit versions of Logos 8, we will put 32-bit Windows 10 into maintenance support on February 4, 2020 and end support for 32-bit Windows 10 by the end of 2020.
How do I know if I'll be affected?
Almost all Windows 10 systems sold recently are 64-bit. To find out the details on your operating system, click this link to open Settings, or right-click the Start Menu (Windows icon) and choose "System". Under "Device specifications", look for "System type". It should say "64-bit operating system, x64-based processor".
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
Read more about the Support Lifecyle.
Can we get this support document fixed, please? It erroneously says that "versions of Logos before Logos 7.19 will not be able to connect to our servers". This contradicts the information at https://www.logos.com/logos-7-update which says that version before 7.0 are affected.
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Mark Barnes said:Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
Read more about the Support Lifecyle.
Can we get this support document fixed, please? It erroneously says that "versions of Logos before Logos 7.19 will not be able to connect to our servers". This contradicts the information at https://www.logos.com/logos-7-update which says that version before 7.0 are affected.
It should say Logos 7.18 SR-1 or later. (Some earlier versions of Logos 7 can connect, depending on your operating system, but generally Logos 7.18 SR-1 is required.)
However, Logos 7 is unsupported so I'm not planning to edit that page to go into a lot of detail about which specific unsupported versions are more likely to work than others.
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It should say Logos 7.18 SR-1 or later. (Some earlier versions of Logos 7 can connect, depending on your operating system, but generally Logos 7.18 SR-1 is required.)
As I understand it, TLS 1.2:
- is enabled by default by OS X 10.9 and above, and Windows 8.1 and above.
- can be enabled manually on all versions of Windows except XP (from the Advanced tab of Internet Properties, or by editing the registry)
As Logos 7 isn't compatible with any OSs that can't support TLS 1.2, then all versions of Logos 7 should connect, so long as the correct box is checked in Internet Properties.
In practice, this doesn't matter for Windows users, because they can just run Logos 8 (or 7.19). But it does make a difference to the small number users of OS X 10.10 Yosemite who can't upgrade to a more recent OS and are stuck with 7.13. For them it's important: e.g. Need an installer for OS X 10.10.5
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I don't know about Mono on macOS, but for .NET Framework applications on Windows, it's much, much more complicated: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/network-programming/tls
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I don't know about Mono on macOS, but for .NET Framework applications on Windows, it's much, much more complicated: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/network-programming/tls
Fair enough.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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1. Getting Jesus into the hands of the masses is more important than following the lead of greed in telling the poor masses "we won't support you, because the mass greedy wealthy isn't going to support you." OTOH, Windows 10 WAS given away for free!!!
2. (Extra rambling) The only reason why Microsoft is not going to support older systems, is money. I get it. I made 0 sense of windows 8, and windows 10 wasn't even better, so I didn't install it. OTOH, I do NOT expect Logos to be able to afford the extra cost to do backwards support either.
3. Question follows - Also, I found some blurbage on the web that scared me away from Windows 10. iIt basically meant "Microsoft has the exclusive rights to force reboot your computer after secretly installing updates such that you can not save first." This is why I didn't downgrade to windows 10. I thought that IF and ONLY IF this was true, then Microsoft was being evil to the core. I am not going to save every little word I type right after typing it, just because windows is not letting me save before it insist on rebooting. OTOH, my laptop is old and does need replacing. I was hoping to have a couple years.
Question - Did Microsoft FIX the issue so that we can save work before they forcefully reboot computer? With Windows 10, specifically? Thanks!
signed sad and wishing for 2021 date instead of 2020. (Arbitrary date in which my laptop and others like it, might not be working anyway.)
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Kytriya said:
Question - Did Microsoft FIX the issue so that we can save work before they forcefully reboot computer? With Windows 10, specifically? T
That has never been my experience with the the major version upgrades (2x per year). I've had to chase the upgrade in some cases.
Regular updates and fixes can occur at a time you specify in Settings, even when the computer is sleeping.
It's always a risk if you leave work unsaved, but Logos regularly/immediately syncs your work. And Office 365 will Autosave by default.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I would like to ask if there is any way Logos could set up two different download types by 8.12?
One would be a data only, and the other would be program upgrade? Or updated software data type?
That way, people who have older computers, and older versions of the software on those computers, can still buy new books,, and use them on their machine(s).
Is it difficult for Logos to "tag" each new resource publication as to whether it is merely a document, or such a thing as a dataset or file which would require the higher OS and version of Logos?
In other words, mere books ought to be compatible with all versions of Logos, no? Blessings.
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Paul L. White said:
In other words, mere books ought to be compatible with all versions of Logos, no?
Unfortunately not. Some books depend on newer versions of the software.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Paul L. White said:
That way, people who have older computers, and older versions of the software on those computers, can still buy new books,, and use them on their machine(s).
This is what we call "maintenance" support. See the fuller descriptions here: https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007391412-About-Free-Support
We did this in the past (for example) where updates to Logos 5 were shipped to allow users still on Windows Vista to read the latest books (because Logos 6 required Windows 7). We're going to keep shipping maintenance updates for Logos 8 to Windows 7 users as long as that's practical, but this support will end by the end of 2020.
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Just to explain about new books and new software. Generally speaking, new books can be read on older versions of the software. So if you can’t/won’t upgrade you will still be able to access many new purchases (although the older the software, the less likely this will become). This announcement isn’t saying the new resources will never run on older versions of the software - it’s saying that compatibility won’t be guaranteed.
There can be a number of reasons why new resources require a recent version of the software. One of the most common is that it requires a new datatype for its references. New datatypes can only be added through a software update.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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said:
