I need some expert help with a complex search term

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 8:11 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
Is not pointing to a personal blog  another no no?

No it is not (note my bold added):

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

  1. Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
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  3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.
  4. Please do not use our forums to
    • sell or give away anything or link to anything you’re selling or giving away—including Logos products
    • promote or link to competitors
    • promote affiliate links or discounts
    • point people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products
    • advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable)
    • post Logos Coupon Codes. If you are aware of a special promotion Logos is running online, you are welcome to link directly to the promotion.
  5. Please search before posting. It’s likely that someone has already asked your question.
  6. Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations, please click “Report Abuse” under “More” or send an email to forums@logos.com. If a user is a repeat offender, we may temporarily suspend their account. If the offenses continue, we reserve the right to permanently ban the offender's account from the forums either by shadow banning it or blocking it entirely.

Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.

Others, including Faithlife employees, have occasionally pointed to a specific personal blog entry when it directly relates to the issue at hand. 

However please reread the sixth guideline in the context of 

Hamilton Ramos:
I would love to read about your thoughts about capitalism, communism, and other ways, because I am sure I would learn a lot, and many angles not obvious to me now would open.

Encouraging someone to violate the guidelines is clearly a violation of the guidelines.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 8:56 PM

1Cor10:31:
As a researcher, we always ask why?

I agree. We ASK why. Answers that apply to particular people in the forums over the years:

  • because he is on heavy medication that sometimes clouds his judgment. We agreed that "go mow your lawn" would be how I told him his meds were getting the better of him and he should take a break. It served its purpose and avoided constant mention of his health concerns in the forums.
  • because his wife informed us that his tone is the result of brain damage from a stroke and that the forums are one of his few enjoyable activities.  When his behavior was questioned, someone would explain why we cut him some slack
  • because FL responded to one of my many reports of outlandish behavior with a note that they were very aware of the problem and were working on it -- so I report the posts as abuse but say nothing publicly as that would subject the forum users to more of his vitriol.
  • because the poster is known to be fighting disabling mental illness and is clearly not responding well to their current meds - they will get stabilized and there are forum friends behind the scenes trying to ensure he does not embarrass himself.
  • because I know every post of the person has been removed and that a permanent ban is in the works.
  • because I have so much trouble communicating with the person that I have simply quite reading his/her posts and therefore have not seen what I should object to this time.  There are enough forum users still reading the person's posts that they should be reported without my involvement.

I think that illustrates why a researcher asks rather than assuming they are favored.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 892
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 4:45 AM

MJ. Smith:
advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website

To me sending someone to a particular website seems like proselitizing, unless the person actually asks for further explanation.

Then we have the term discussing, to me is different from mentioning something for further research. Discussing is actually engaging in giving arguments to prove a point, which is very different from mentioning some issues that may aid in better search using Logos (tools), getting better resources (products), promoting critical thinking (for edification), etc.

From the guidelines we can tell that intent is as important as object. If a person is trying to help persons leverage their L9, how can that be guideline violation?

Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 11:56 AM

MJ. Smith:

I agree. We ASK why. Answers that apply to particular people in the forums over the years:

  • because he is on heavy medication that sometimes clouds his judgment. We agreed that "go mow your lawn" would be how I told him his meds were getting the better of him and he should take a break. It served its purpose and avoided constant mention of his health concerns in the forums.
  • because his wife informed us that his tone is the result of brain damage from a stroke and that the forums are one of his few enjoyable activities.  When his behavior was questioned, someone would explain why we cut him some slack
  • because FL responded to one of my many reports of outlandish behavior with a note that they were very aware of the problem and were working on it -- so I report the posts as abuse but say nothing publicly as that would subject the forum users to more of his vitriol.
  • because the poster is known to be fighting disabling mental illness and is clearly not responding well to their current meds - they will get stabilized and there are forum friends behind the scenes trying to ensure he does not embarrass himself.
  • because I know every post of the person has been removed and that a permanent ban is in the works.
  • because I have so much trouble communicating with the person that I have simply quite reading his/her posts and therefore have not seen what I should object to this time.  There are enough forum users still reading the person's posts that they should be reported without my involvement.

For a Forum of this size, I find this number to be surprisingly few. But, still sorry that the MVPs have to put up with this.

I'm appreciative of the many people on this Forum (you, Dave Hooten, Graham Criddle, JT come to the top of my mind) who gladly spend their time responding to people's requests.

MJ. Smith:

I think that illustrates why a researcher asks rather than assuming they are favored.

In our profession as financial economists, we sometimes do surveys to ask people their preferences. But we know that people can lie, so surveys are a poor tool to infer preferences. Therefore, we try to validate revealed preferences obtained through surveys using data.

What I've observed on the Forum is that some people gladly flout Forum guidelines repeatedly without being censured. That's the basis on which I tag some people as "favored." 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 12:36 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

MJ. Smith:
advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website

To me sending someone to a particular website seems like proselitizing, unless the person actually asks for further explanation.

Then we have the term discussing, to me is different from mentioning something for further research. Discussing is actually engaging in giving arguments to prove a point, which is very different from mentioning some issues that may aid in better search using Logos (tools), getting better resources (products), promoting critical thinking (for edification), etc.

From the guidelines we can tell that intent is as important as object. If a person is trying to help persons leverage their L9, how can that be guideline violation?

I don't think anybody thought about making 'grandstanding' against the forum rules but I might suggest that it is included in the next revision.

Answering a person's question, in the terms with which they asked it. Refusing to engage with questions that are provocatively doctrinal. Both of these are perfectly acceptable and encouraged.

Assuming one needs your assistance in framing supplementary questions is condescending.

Providing that uncalled for, and implicitly, agreement-breaking post earlier in this thread is out of order. As 'out of order' as the previous and similarly structured posts, you have dropped into other threads and which you have been repeatedly asked to desist from posting.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 892
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 1:35 PM

Mike Binks:
Assuming one needs your assistance in framing supplementary questions is condescending.

This is what I do not understand, I am trying to bring attention to something that can be important in the economic sphere for Christian believers, the only person that knows if is condescending or not is the one that originated the thread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

If it was you asking for input, I would not have mentioned, as I could make an educated guess that you know a bit about cooperatives due to its origin location point.

You can call me condescending all you want, but my question is simple:

How can we make explicit key issues in a topic without going into polemics nor violating guidelines?

By mentioning cooperatives, I was giving another angle so it could be compared with other systems and facilitate to see different ways that profit maximization could be looked at from.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 2:33 PM

1Cor10:31:

MJ. Smith:

I agree. We ASK why. Answers that apply to particular people in the forums over the years:

  • because he is on heavy medication that sometimes clouds his judgment. We agreed that "go mow your lawn" would be how I told him his meds were getting the better of him and he should take a break. It served its purpose and avoided constant mention of his health concerns in the forums.
  • because his wife informed us that his tone is the result of brain damage from a stroke and that the forums are one of his few enjoyable activities.  When his behavior was questioned, someone would explain why we cut him some slack
  • because FL responded to one of my many reports of outlandish behavior with a note that they were very aware of the problem and were working on it -- so I report the posts as abuse but say nothing publicly as that would subject the forum users to more of his vitriol.
  • because the poster is known to be fighting disabling mental illness and is clearly not responding well to their current meds - they will get stabilized and there are forum friends behind the scenes trying to ensure he does not embarrass himself.
  • because I know every post of the person has been removed and that a permanent ban is in the works.
  • because I have so much trouble communicating with the person that I have simply quite reading his/her posts and therefore have not seen what I should object to this time.  There are enough forum users still reading the person's posts that they should be reported without my involvement.

For a Forum of this size, I find this number to be surprisingly few. But, still sorry that the MVPs have to put up with this.

The only one that I felt I was putting up with was the one I knew FL was working on. I believe very strongly in an inclusive, compassionate church which is, therefore, what I expect to see in the Logos users. And, yes, in church services I am never surprised by disruptive people whose history must be understood to know why they are tolerated.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 2:35 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
To me sending someone to a particular website seems like proselitizing,

I certainly hope not as I have often linked to site that contain the requested information but which I believe to be promoting heresies. Sending someone to a library isn't proselytizing - it's informing, educating,.and decreasing the amount of misinformation/disinformation believed in the world.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 32928
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 2:49 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
How can we make explicit key issues in a topic without going into polemics nor violating guidelines?

You cannot unless the original question was framed in the context of "how can I research ..." It is best to read the forums in the context of assuming that each and every user is more competent than yourself in some aspects. Assume they have framed their question well to obtain the information they need. To assume that they need help formulating questions for their research is condescending and demeaning unless there is an obvious flaw in their original question such as assuming the American religious landscape is representative of the world's religious landscape. And should their question be ill-formed, limit yourself to a sentence or two to describe why it is ill-formed and a sentence or two for a proposed rewording. Beyond that is often perceived as grandstanding.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 42
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 3:54 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
the only person that knows if is condescending or not is the one that originated the thread.

I originated the thread and I do find it condescending. I have an MBA in economics and am a DBA candidate. 

I am offended that you hijacked my post to push your own agenda. You answered several questions that I never asked and never did answer the ONE question that I did ask. I was simply looking for a sophisticated search term to use in searching my library.

Since you have taken over this post for your own personal promotion, I stand virtually no chance of getting any response to the very specific question I asked. 

Please start your own thread if you want to engage in self aggrandizement.

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 4:14 PM

IHSA:
I stand virtually no chance of getting any response to the very specific question I asked. 
Are you still working on this project? If so, perhaps we can get this back to topic.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.4

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 4:23 PM

IHSA:

“The way to serve God at work is to make as much money as you can, so that you can be as generous as you can.”

Can someone help me with a search term that will show me everything in my resources that is relevant to that prompt? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry you haven't gotten a satisfactory answer. I did not offer a solution because it relates to people and theological positions that I know so little about that I can't offer a decent vocabulary. Starting from a position of complete ignorance, I would search all resources for "(purpose NEAR wealth) OR generosity"

I would scan the results:

  • first, to find resources related to Keller and his buddies
  • second, to find early church positions on the issue
  • third, to find commentaries on passages that I found in the above two groups of resources.
  • finally, to find resources that might fill the holes I have in my research

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 5:12 PM

IHSA:
I was simply looking for a sophisticated search term to use in searching my library.

Some Search queries were provided in the early posts. I took some words from your request and used  make  money and be  generous (without quotes) in a Bible Search.  The FUZZY Bible Search has some results of interest.

A Basic Search of ALL Resources for money NEAR  generous was also productive (use "Match all word forms").

Try generosity in a Topic Guide, as that has results in "Dictionary of Bible Themes" and other resources + other suggestions for a search.

Sophistication/complexity many times comes from simplification.

Dave
===

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 11:20 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

IHSA:

I have been tasked to write a reflection paper on a book by Timothy Keller using the prompt:

“The way to serve God at work is to make as much money as you can, so that you can be as generous as you can.”

Can someone help me with a search term that will show me everything in my resources that is relevant to that prompt?

Search idea for a number of articles & chapters to consider:

([field heading,largetext] motivation,serve,steal) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, generous, give, labor, labour, money, work)

Added some search terms:

([field heading,largetext] cooperative, motivation, oppress, serve, steal, tithe) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, economic, employ, generous, give, labor, labour, money, poor, productive, work)

[field heading,largetext] looks for words in Article names and Chapter headings. WITHIN searches for words in Article names and Chapter headings plus ## words in the Article/Chapter beginning. If have a resource that would like included in search, suggest looking for distinctive word(s) to expand search. Another search modification is changing ## word proximity.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 12:28 AM

Hamilton Ramos:
How can we make explicit key issues in a topic without going into polemics nor violating guidelines?

You can not. So do not.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 2:27 AM

IHSA:

Since you have taken over this post for your own personal promotion, I stand virtually no chance of getting any response to the very specific question I asked. 

Greetings IHSA and may I apologise for my part in the diversion of the thread.

Some of us, I'm sure, think that Hamilton has the potential to be a valuable member of the Forum community. He obviously uses the Software quite a lot and, no doubt, should be able to offer insights on how to use it effectively.

There are very few here that respond to his posts, similar to the one posted in this thread, and engage with the content therein. If we did the thread would have veered off even more than it has done. Such posts seem only to get the response 'Please don't!' to which we get 'Why not?' and off the thread goes explaining forum guidelines once more.

I do hope some of the apposite replies you have had have helped with the search term you sought.

Once again; Sorry for my part in the dilution of the content.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 7:07 AM

Mike Binks:

Hamilton Ramos:
How can we make explicit key issues in a topic without going into polemics nor violating guidelines?

You can not. So do not.

Key issues have key words, which can be searched (as requested for this thread).

([field heading,largetext] cooperative, motivation, oppress, serve, steal, tithe) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, economic, employ, generous, give, labor, labour, money, poor, productive, work)

can be simplified to see if particular word(s) have intriguing results: e.g.

([field heading,largetext] cooperative, oppress) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, economic, employ, generous, give, labor, labour, money, poor, productive, work)

Today is the 22nd so reading Proverbs 22 provided another key word for reflective paper searching: reputation

([field heading,largetext] reputation) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, economic, employ, generous, give, labor, labour, money, poor, productive, work)

Thankful for Bookstore section in Search that shows search results in resources currently not owned.

Expanded complex search of Articles/Chapters to consider for reflection paper is:

([field heading,largetext] cooperative, motivation, oppress, reputation, serve, steal, tithe) WITHIN 11 WORDS (Lord, God, hands) WITHIN 22 WORDS (business, economic, employ, generous, give, labor, labour, money, poor, productive, work)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 7:04 AM

IHSA:

I originated the thread and I do find it condescending. I have an MBA in economics and am a DBA candidate. 

I am offended that you hijacked my post to push your own agenda. You answered several questions that I never asked and never did answer the ONE question that I did ask. I was simply looking for a sophisticated search term to use in searching my library.

Thanks for the clarification,IHSA, I in no moment think that you are not very competent, I just suggested a not so often mentioned approach, but if is not of help, my apologies.

For anyone interested in cooperatives:

https://www.logos.com/product/173189/holy-cooperation-building-graceful-economies 

IHSA:
Please start your own thread if you want to engage in self aggrandizement.

I really do not understand why so many think I am into self aggrandizement, I am more into expanding conceptual framework (mostly mine), and I do have too much of a "check all, retain what is good" attitude that seems to be misinterpreted.

Once again, at no moment did I try to be condescending, maybe I came across like so, but my intent was other. Disregard anything that I wrote that you find not useful.

Peace and grace.

Posts 892
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 7:09 AM

Mike Binks:
You can not. So do not.

See Mike this is what is confusing to me. FL sometimes goes into topic of the month in their blog, then gives some pointers of what is involved, then list many good resources that follow up on that.

There are so many topics, that I would think FL cannot be detailing in their blog all of them, so I wonder how a similar process for persons that want certain information on certain topic can identify key concepts and get a list of resources that can be helpful.

Posts 892
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 7:13 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Excellent KS4J, and maybe keywords related to topics could be a project FL could take on. If not mistaken FL has a huge controlled vocabulary list that could be tailored in a similar way to Dictionary of Bible themes, to allow for relevant searches within particular topics.

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