iOS 5 Dumps Downloaded Books

Like many I jumped on the iOS 5 as soon as it was released. I am updating my iPhone now, but on my iPad the update erased all of my downloaded books despite the fact that iTunes says that the apps are being restored. The Logos app is here and working by I lost my downloaded books.

Anyone else seeing this?

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Comments

Franz Lippi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/295101#Comment_295101

ABSOLUTELY!

selected / * wildcard downloading is an essential for those of us who bought larger libraries...

Blessings from Austria

Franz Lippi

Chester Estes Jr

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/298852#Comment_298852

... S. Mack, Jebezman here. I am a Logos4 (Platinum) user and I have iPhone4. My iPh4 did the same as everyone else in these post. I did not know what was going on until almost three hours later - thanks to 'Jobs' and Apple! A good bit of my iPh4's photos 'have been' re-arranged; I'm find most(?) of them in my Dell Studio 1749 lap; it looks like a long, long, long 2011 winter (HaHa). Reading your post [10/23-11, 9.35pm] I am at lost to know what, how, etc. of your item "#2" and would appreciate a little more instruct. I do not understand the "Cache, Apple says...." Is there a way to find so via Apple and/or Logos. Post here, please, and I'll get back and take a look/see.

PS Anyone else reading this having info I would appreciate info....

Jabezman@aol 'dot' com

AFA/AFR Volunteer Engineer L-1, WSQH 91.7fm MS

Tony Garland

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/295650#Comment_295650

I was also surprised, not too long ago, to find out I was unable to save a bookmark (favorite) because I happened to be offline. Not sure if that is still the case -- but suspect so based on the lengthy delay I see between adding a bookmark and seeing it show up in the bookmark list when I happen to be connected.

It would be most helpful to be able to set and use bookmarks when offline if this hasn't been addressed already.

Benny Ng

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/296897#Comment_296897

That's it! Today is the last straw! I stayed up late to re-download about 150 books last night. I re-downloaded those books few times already in the past 2 weeks. However, due to the need to update a large app, and I forgot to check the amount of space left on my iPad before launching the update, iOS automatically removed ALL 150 books that I downloaded last night from Logos!

Until either Logos or Apple fix this mess, I'll stick to Logos on my PC.

Bob Carnahan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294927#Comment_294927

Interesting posts. Does anyone know if this happens on purchased packages for the desktop if you upgrade your OS?

Blessings,

-Bob

Bob Carnahan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/295208#Comment_295208

Aloha Dave! Thanks for your answer on this. Its greatly appreciated. It's a blessing to have this free app. This forum has been a great wealth of information. Being a software engineer over the past several years (I'm in IT management now), does your testing team look at testing these scenarios/cases of upgrading to newer OS releases etc?

Blessings,

-Bob

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300525#Comment_300525

Does anyone know if this happens on purchased packages for the desktop if you upgrade your OS?

Bob - are you asking if you lose your resources if you upgrade your desktop OS? The answer is no. The reason this happens on the mobile platform is the way that Logos works with iOS for storage. According to Logos, iOS 5 presented a change which was unforeseen that caused the loss of data. I don't know if Logos will change the way they store the data for the next major mobile release or not.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300559#Comment_300559

Does anyone know if this happens on purchased packages for the desktop if you upgrade your OS?

Bob - are you asking if you lose your resources if you upgrade your desktop OS? The answer is no. The reason this happens on the mobile platform is the way that Logos works with iOS for storage. According to Logos, iOS 5 presented a change which was unforeseen that caused the loss of data. I don't know if Logos will change the way they store the data for the next major mobile release or not.

I'm currious, did Apple change this at the last minute? Why didn't this issue show up during beta testing? If it was going to happen, a note of caution in the release notes would have helped some of those posting. Those who needed Logos for the weekend could have decided to wait to update. Not complaining, just curious.

Blessings All!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300565#Comment_300565

Philana - I have no idea. Personally, I understand that some users (especially those in developing nations) do not have access to reliable internet. It should be noted that the apps are really designed to be used with the cloud. I think that Logos is probably getting the picture that there are some users who strongly desire/need to download resources. Hopefully they will be able to adjust their thinking in a future release.

As far as beta testing goes, I don't think that Logos had a large number of beta testers (testing the Logos app on iOS 5 before its launch). This may have very well caught Logos off guard.

Bob Carnahan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300559#Comment_300559

Does anyone know if this happens on purchased packages for the desktop if you upgrade your OS?

Bob - are you asking if you lose your resources if you upgrade your desktop OS? The answer is no. The reason this happens on the mobile platform is the way that Logos works with iOS for storage. According to Logos, iOS 5 presented a change which was unforeseen that caused the loss of data. I don't know if Logos will change the way they store the data for the next major mobile release or not.

Thanks for the info alabama24.

Blessings,

-Bob

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300559#Comment_300559

I don't know if Logos will change the way they store the data for the next major mobile release or not.

Despite the inconvenience of having to redownload all of our resources again, it would most likely be a bad idea for the offline resources to get stored as anything other than "temporary" data as they currently are. If they were saved as "app data" or something else that got backed up during the upgrade process, then that data would also be backed up to iCloud, necessitating much larger storage than the standard, free 5GB. Now, we could turn off iCloud backup for the Logos app, but I'd prefer that they stick to the Apple guidelines rather than resorting to a "workaround" resulting in one more thing I need to remember to take care of manually in the event of a restore. In short, this was a one-time occurrence due to the drastic changes in iOS 5. It wasn't a bug and it wasn't Logos' fault.

EDIT TO ADD: Also, it was completely unavoidable. Installing iOS5 required a complete wipe of the device...there was no way to retain ANYTHING stored on the device. So even if Logos had kept a record of which resources were offline use, the resources would STILL have had to be redownloaded, it just would have skipped the (admittedly extremely time-consuming) step of having to re-choose each resource to be downloaded. If that is what is being complained about, then that will be fixed by the "bulk download" feature that is being worked on. Either way, there is nothing to be gained and much to be lost by changing the way that Logos stores offline resources.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300893#Comment_300893

Hi Kknight78,

I see it differently.

1) I would rather Logos give us the option of having the books backed up to iCloud. If I have an issue with the storage space or any other concern, I can always turn it off. Right now we have no choice. Nothing is backed up and that to me is not acceptable. Logos is only one of two apps I've used so far (out of 150+ apps I have on my iPad) that does not back up its data.

2) I don't fully understand Dave Dunkin's previous comment about sticking to the Apple guidelines and thus causing this current problem. Bottom line is, we didn't have to do anything to restore the offline books for Kindle, iBooks, Kobo, or any of the other major ebook apps. I don't understand why Logos couldn't do what everyone else is doing to preserve their offline books on the device during upgrades.

3) Yes, a major part of the complaint is the inability to re-download the books automatically even if nothing could be done to preserve them during upgrades. Although not the most ideal, I can live with keeping the iPad turned on for a couple hours while my books re-download if all I have to do is to tap one button to start the process. The current offline book download UI is extremely inefficient. You have to choose it one by one; can't even do a commentary series with one tap. There are 3 taps per book to download. If you're not careful and didn't tap exactly on the blue arrow, you end up opening the book instead. Then you have to go back to the Library, start over again from the top of the list (and it's unsorted), find your place, and continue on. This could also happen if the app decides to crash while you're going through this process. I've never seen a user interface as inefficient as this, sorry.

Bob Pritchett said he uses the iOS app on a daily basis. I hope he and Dave Dunkin have gone through this process themselves trying to download more than a dozen books and experienced the inefficiency themselves.

Off my soap box now... thanks for listening.

Peter

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300893#Comment_300893

Kknight78 states: In short, this was a one-time occurrence due to the drastic changes in iOS 5. It wasn't a bug and it wasn't Logos' fault.

Well, let's see, it wasn't Apple's fault, so I guess that leaves us. Hmmmm, why don't I feel guilty?

My iPod just finished an automatic (re)download of over a gigabyte of data to the GPS app on my iPod Touch. It was due to the OS upgrade. I didn't have to remember what data I had to download.

I'm not saying it was unavoidable. In my case I was not informed what the implications of the OS upgrade would be. Logos was undoubtedly aware of this. We weren't told to make a note of which resources we had downloaded for off-line use. Or maybe our church should have wireless access during services. Then I wouldn't have had any problems!

Gerry

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300919#Comment_300919

Or maybe our church should have wireless access during services.

Yes. [:)]

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300919#Comment_300919

Alabama24 states: In short, this was a one-time occurrence due to the drastic changes in iOS 5. It wasn't a bug and it wasn't Logos' fault.

Gerald: Can you link to where I said that? I don't like you putting words into my mouth, so to speak. If you need to quote someone, please read the "Quote Someone" thread in my signature. Either way, the heart of these comments are not mine, but Dave Dunkin's:

Apple gives us several options for storing data in iOS applications: documents, application data, caches and temporary. Documents and application data are synced and backed up through iTunes and now iCould. Cache and temporary storage is not backed up. We follow Apple's recommendation of storing data that can be downloaded again in cache storage. In earlier iOS versions, all data was backed up, but Apple changed this because it made the backup process too slow and took too much space in iTunes.

iOS 5 is the first version I'm aware of that required a full reinstall. All previous versions have been upgradable, leaving all app data in place. Developers were not given notice that iOS 5 would be different. Had we known, we could have accelerated our plans to make bulk downloading and/or redownloading easier.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300971#Comment_300971

alabama24 - Gerald was quoting kknight78, not you. It's the second post on this 4th page of this thread.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300998#Comment_300998

Thanks Peter. [:)]

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300572#Comment_300572

Philana - I have no idea. Personally, I understand that some users (especially those in developing nations) do not have access to reliable internet. It should be noted that the apps are really designed to be used with the cloud. I think that Logos is probably getting the picture that there are some users who strongly desire/need to download resources. Hopefully they will be able to adjust their thinking in a future release.

As far as beta testing goes, I don't think that Logos had a large number of beta testers (testing the Logos app on iOS 5 before its launch). This may have very well caught Logos off guard.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about how Logos does beta testing, just seems that the app would have dumped the libraries of beta testers...that's why I thought Apple might have changed it last minute.

Couple of suggestions to pastors/teachers:

1. If you can get wi-fi at church, this is very helpful, I was able to use Logos for teaching with wi-fi at my church it was open to the congregation. Extra things that can be a good thing if used well...

Interaction with apps that allow members to access sermon notes and interact.
Get members Tweeting and posting on Facebook & Google+ highlights and Scripture from the message, rather than sports highlights.

2. If you need to use Logos for the weekend when a iOS update comes out and don't have wi-fi at church, wait a day or two to update the Logos app and check out for issues popping up on the forums so you can make sure you don't loose your books if you need them.

I do hope Logos can change how books are stored. Is the app perfect, no. But it sure has come a long way. I am anticipating the upcoming notes and highlighting features, but what they are working on will be better!

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300572#Comment_300572

Philana - I have no idea. Personally, I understand that some users (especially those in developing nations) do not have access to reliable internet. It should be noted that the apps are really designed to be used with the cloud. I think that Logos is probably getting the picture that there are some users who strongly desire/need to download resources. Hopefully they will be able to adjust their thinking in a future release.

As far as beta testing goes, I don't think that Logos had a large number of beta testers (testing the Logos app on iOS 5 before its launch). This may have very well caught Logos off guard.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about how Logos does beta testing, just seems that the app would have dumped the libraries of beta testers...that's why I thought Apple might have changed it last minute.

Couple of suggestions to pastors/teachers:

Interaction with apps that allow members to access sermon notes and interact.
Get members Tweeting and posting on Facebook & Google+ highlights and Scripture from the message, rather than sports highlights.

BISHOP ERNEST FOLSTON JR.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/295208#Comment_295208

Hello Dave, I have downloaded my library books to my IPad2 after running IOS5 for the second time and it is not saving my downloads for offline use. Is there an incompatibility problem with Logos and the IOS5 system on the IPad2 for this version of Logos?? Originally I'm personally aware of the wipe out of the downloaded information after I upgraded to IOS5, but now its happening after the upgrade has been done. Any suggestions????

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301201#Comment_301201

Ernest - First, welcome to the forums! Sorry you are having troubles. Offline books are working for me. How many books are you trying to download? Have you tried just one to see if it works? Can you give me the steps you are using?

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300909#Comment_300909

Thanks for the detailed replies Peter. You and I are in agreement more than we aren't:

1) I would rather Logos give us the option of having the books backed up to iCloud. If I have an issue with the storage space or any other concern, I can always turn it off. Right now we have no choice. Nothing is backed up and that to me is not acceptable. Logos is only one of two apps I've used so far (out of 150+ apps I have on my iPad) that does not back up its data.

Here, I see the point you are trying to make, but books aren't "data" in the sense of having to re-create work if you lose them. Functionally, there is no difference between re-downloading them from Logos and re-downloading them from your iCloud backup (IF items 2 & 3 are addressed below) EXCEPT that re-downloading them from Logos doesn't cost you anything, while backing them up to iCloud will most likely require you to purchase more than the default 5GB of storage, unless you have a small library and/or you have nothing else on your iPad or other idevices that you want backed up. Either way, the resources are stored in and have to be re-downloaded from the cloud. There is no benefit to using iCloud instead of Logos' existing cloud infrastructure (again, assuming that items 2 & 3 are addressed).

2) I don't fully understand Dave Dunkin's previous comment about sticking to the Apple guidelines and thus causing this current problem. Bottom line is, we didn't have to do anything to restore the offline books for Kindle, iBooks, Kobo, or any of the other major ebook apps. I don't understand why Logos couldn't do what everyone else is doing to preserve their offline books on the device during upgrades.

I agree, but this could be solved by Logos syncing "offline flags" rather than changing what type of data the books are stored as. Everything was wiped from your idevice during the upgrade, including your other e-book apps and their associated books. The difference (and I admit that it is a significant and important difference, especially with Logos' limitation #3 that you stated) is that all the other e-book apps pulled their books back down automatically with no input from you. Functionally, it doesn't matter whether those books were backed up to the cloud before removing or whether they were just flagged to be re-downloaded from the vendors' servers...either way, they had to come back down from the cloud.

3) Yes, a major part of the complaint is the inability to re-download the books automatically even if nothing could be done to preserve them during upgrades. Although not the most ideal, I can live with keeping the iPad turned on for a couple hours while my books re-download if all I have to do is to tap one button to start the process. The current offline book download UI is extremely inefficient. You have to choose it one by one; can't even do a commentary series with one tap. There are 3 taps per book to download. If you're not careful and didn't tap exactly on the blue arrow, you end up opening the book instead. Then you have to go back to the Library, start over again from the top of the list (and it's unsorted), find your place, and continue on. This could also happen if the app decides to crash while you're going through this process. I've never seen a user interface as inefficient as this, sorry.

I agree 100% with you here. If this were fixed/improved drastically, then it would fix almost the whole problem (with the rest of the problem being fixed by syncing "offline flags" to let the app know which books to automatically keep available for offline use.)

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300919#Comment_300919

Well, let's see, it wasn't Apple's fault, so I guess that leaves us. Hmmmm, why don't I feel guilty?

I think you are missing my point. See my reply to Peter just now.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301113#Comment_301113

I do hope Logos can change how books are stored.

Changing how the offline books are stored would not have stopped the need for a lengthy re-download after updating to iOS 5. It WOULD have saved the hassle of having to go back through your library and re-mark all your books for offline use one-by-one, but there are MUCH better ways to do that than changing how the books are stored. Refer to my post two posts ago.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301250#Comment_301250

Kknight78, thanks for your reasoned analysis of the problem at hand. I agree with your analysis.

Thanks,

Peter

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300919#Comment_300919

Kknight78 states: In short, this was a one-time occurrence due to the drastic changes in iOS 5. It wasn't a bug and it wasn't Logos' fault.
Well, let's see, it wasn't Apple's fault, so I guess that leaves us. Hmmmm, why don't I feel guilty?

Actually I don't see why it wasn't Apple's fault. If the stated facts are correct, that previous iOS upgrades didn't wipe the machine and that Apple didn't announce this behavior to app developers in some sort of release notes, then it was - at least for a good part.

I still would expect Logos to test such an upgrade and inform users over the forum about inconveniences to be expected and necessary manual workarounds (such as a list of the downloaded books) - and I would expect people who are "heavy" users of Logos on their pad to check the forum prior to a big OS upgarade to verify whether there are problems to be expected. If I contemplated switching to Windows 8 on my PC, I'd do.

Mick

Cindy Barrilleaux

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301228#Comment_301228

I got an IPad 2, upgraded to IOS 5 and and don't have any books in my library, though they are still on my Iphone. I know there are tons of complaints about this, but has a solution been suggested? I'm very new to Logos, and find it wonderful but confusing. Advice?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301286#Comment_301286

Hi Cindy

Unfortunately one of the side-effects of upgrading to IOS5 is that the cache which the Logos app uses to hold offline resources is cleared. This is why they need to be downloaded again.

I assume the reason that you still have them on your iPhone is that you haven't upgraded it.

I haven't seen any solution to this problem apart from having to re-download the resources again.

Graham

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/301286#Comment_301286

Cindy - I don't fully understand your question. When you said that you "don't have any books" in your library, do you mean in both online and offline mode? If you are offline, you will need to get online and download the books you want. If you are online, do you have anything typed into the search field (see screen shot below).

Benny Ng

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/300180#Comment_300180

Good news! Apple solved this issue by introducing: "don’t-purge, don’t-back-up file store" in iOS 5.0.1 that's currently under beta testing. It should be released soon. Hopefully Logos will then be updated to use this new file store.

http://developer.apple.com/news/index.php?id=11032011a

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/302196#Comment_302196

Okay, a friend at church gave me the password to one of the wi-fi points in the church. so I decided to give my Logos app one more try. I successfully logged in, brought up the Logos app, checked that Logos had my correct information. All was okay until I hit the library button - nothing. The screen is blank, though I own over 1,200 resources. If I touch on "Recent Books", it shows me a handful of books which I can access, but touching "Library" brings up nothing but a blank window.

Now I'm home and on my own wireless connection my library is still blank. Yes, it used to work, but not now. I'm sure glad my Logos desktop software works better than this. Also I'm glad I had my Bible with me today.

Gerry

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/302922#Comment_302922

Now I'm home and on my own wireless connection my library is still blank. Yes, it used to work, but not now. I'm sure glad my Logos desktop software works better than this. Also I'm glad I had my Bible with me today.

This sounds like a 'log in' problem.

I would suspect that the app is not connected to the same account as the one on your desktop/laptop.

You could check the information in 'More – Settings"

Sounds like a call to customer support is in order.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/302922#Comment_302922

Gerald - Two thoughts: First, there was a problem with the servers yesterday which led to the app being down for a bit. Did you notice if Logos was searching, or was it just blank? Second, did you check to see if anything was in the search field? It is possible to have some type in the field which would make it appear like you have no resources.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/302969#Comment_302969

Gerald - Two thoughts: First, there was a problem with the servers yesterday which led to the app being down for a bit.

That's it! I just checked it and it's working okay now. I did check the search field yesterday. They were apparently down for the entire day as it still wasn't working late last night. And Mike, I checked my iPod yesterday to see if Logos had my account information correct and it did.

Seems like Sunday would be the worst day of the week for Logos to have problems with their servers.

Gerry

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/302983#Comment_302983

Seems like Sunday would be the worst day of the week for Logos to have problems with their servers.

Probably loaned them to the Anglicans and Catholics