Ugh! Ghastly!
Ray, for those who don't have the Beta, images might help:
Interesting Words (english)
Interesting Words (Greek):
Topics:
I haven't seen that much pastel since the 1980s.
I kinda like it. Though, to be sure, I find a word cloud to be a bit of a faddish way of displaying data.
Damian
I can live with pastel. But, what were they thinking when they did this? It is confusing, disorganized and makes me long for L3--any version! It is even more frustrating to find the significant words I'm looking for. Reminds me of '60's paisely on a VW bug! Not conducive to study mode.
I only know I don't have 4.0a beta 1, but then I've been using L4 Off line the last couple weeks, unless there is more to it than that!!
I can live with pastel.
I can live with pastel too: that was just a throwaway thought at the end.
I agree with your substantial criticism about the disorganised nature of these Word Clouds - how am I meant to read sideways...
I should have added a Hebrew One:
What's the פ (paragraph marker) from Gen 1:5 doing in the interesting words section?
When I saw this feature I thought the same thing.....cool, but not at all organized or helpful to me to see the words easily.
I'm not registering any available updates here - "update now" gives "no updates available" ... I wonder why. Still on SR-7.
It's not an update. You have to install the Beta from here....
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5385.aspx
You have to use the link at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5385.aspx be forewarned. It cause myself and others troubles.
Add to the terrible layout, an inappropriate font...
Looks like wordle.
Interesting that the first words on the wordle site is that "Wordle is a toy".......
Here's a properly resized guinea-pig.... You look like your skulls been cracked open....
Agreed. Much preferred the fonts used in L3's exegetical guide.
Looks like wordle
My reaction precisely.
I've always used GIMP, but I'm still looking for free alternatives.
For the very quick and dirty work of just cropping a picture and even adding a bit of canvas, I use irfanview.
Obviously what is missing is some 3D stereoscopic action with a little wiggle!
We're still tweaking this, and appreciate the feedback.
Important Words is a like-it/hate-it feature. One complaint, though, is that "unimportant" words show up. This is an inevitable consequence of using a statistical algorithm to determine importance. (Not to mention that everyone has a different impression of what's important/interesting.)
The attempt with the "clouds" is to find a way to present all the words that makes the most likely "important/interesting" ones very visible, while still showing them all, even if in very small type.
And it seemed more fun than a list.
Bob,
I have to say...it IS more fun than a list...more visually appealing; in keeping with V4's slicker look...but there are issues with fonts and things as have been pointed out...
this has promise!
For people that are either dyslexic or colorblind (both very common "handicaps"), this new layout can be very un-usable. I would appreciate if there would come at least an option to display the interesting words/topics section in something like the old format (black and white, in either sentence-style or list-style)
In my view wordle type graphs are only useful for large bodies of text, when you want to see lots of interesting words - and even then when the words are horizontal only. If we could run this for whole books of the Bible - or even entire resources or collections - that would be fascinating. As it is, for small pericopes, they existing cloud works much better. Here, for example, is what my thesis looks like at the moment:
[View:http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs010.snc1/2888_182846150528_573010528_6597162_1895711_n.jpg:604:218]
Mark, your thesis speaks the truth...
Prophecy > Tongues
New > Old
One > Two
Paul > God
...but wait a second... there's something wrong here... where's the LOVE? [;)]
...but wait a second... there's something wrong here... where's the LOVE?
It's missing....Pastor Barnes is a Calvinist.. [:O]
In my view wordle type graphs are only useful for large bodies of text, when you want to see lots of interesting words - and even then when the words are horizontal only. If we could run this for whole books of the Bible - or even entire resources or collections - that would be fascinating.
After running a few on Books of the Bible (lots of fun try Romans) I just ran one from Matthew to Revelation:
Unable to contain myself I just attempted to run another one from Gen-Revelation. I think it nearly killed my computer.
My logs are now reporting an endless stream of the same error.
[quote]18 Error IssueError Issuing exception 0x80030070: There is insufficient disk space to complete operation. [e:\ccnet\working\digitallibrary\common\digitallibrary\src\ldls3\libs\comutil\MemoryStream.inl(424)]
Genesis to Revelation
Could Pelagius have been right?
Wits are apparently more significant than grace!!!
Thanks John. Not sure why it killed mine but it sure enough did. Even running Gen-Malachi was too much for my machine.
How long did that one take to run for you?
about 3-4 minutes...
Simon,
I agree with you, but the dyslexic or colorblind issues aside, it is simply confusing and frankly not all that accurate--thus for research purposes it is a waste of time and coding. It also tends to make Logos 4 look more like a toy not a tool. If we must have this "feature" I would like to have the option of either turning it off altogether or using the algorithm that came with L3 which appeared to me to have a greater degree of accuracy. Having the ability to turn it off would 1) likely make the searches faster and 2) would contain information that users are ACTUALLY interested in rather than suggesting thing that they might be missing (but actually are not) because of a statistical algorithm that may or may not be filtered with biblical/textual/theological concepts. I'm for leaving the toys for other programs and tweaking this one into a solid tool. I'm not saying it isn't now, but no need to inject something to it that, IMHO makes it less so. (Bob, as you can tell, I'm in the "hate it" category)
Ray
I like it, its very powerpointy, perhaps we can keep it just for exporting to powerpoint...
Hi Bob,
I hope you see my post on the topics thread about this. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5790.aspx. Sorry if my commentary is over the top there.
I really hate this layout!
However, I like how it is implemented on the iPod touch,
If you did that (or made it an option) for the desktop product it would be great.
Finally, the black on white text is important to me. So often in version 4 things are very faded and I cannot make them out. I have found as I try to adjust my monitor to make these darker, I start to get a headache as everything else becomes too bright.
Also with LCD monitors, coupled with my freakishly tall stature, the bottom of the monitor, which is about a foot below my eye level, is sometimes completely washed out with your faded text or controls unless I bend over to lower my eye level. Note that this does not happen with any other application I have.
My monitors are about as high as I can make them without it being so my wife would have to stand on the chair to use the computer, so raising them is not really an option. (Actually at work, someone suggested I just suspend my monitor from the ceiling rather than placing it on a platform as it was closer to the ceiling anyways.)
Thanks for listening.
Clinton
It also tends to make Logos 4 look more like a toy not a tool. If we must have this "feature" I would like to have the option of either turning it off altogether
I'm not one for complaning but I have to agree...Logos is a serious piece of software for a serious job and I wonder if this is not more for the eyes than the exegesis.....Let's not lose focus...the last Logos frontier is the "serious exegesis" (so to speak) market and Logos gets a bad rap..many times not warrented...this just might be the wrong direction to dispel these kinds of observations....no?
Can I please add my plea to revert to a horizontal style for these words. Colours if you must perhaps to coincide with frequency.
As it is I am getting sea sick.
Otherwise I must add that I have been using L4 since 20th November and now the update and am very happy. Very few problems and those in the main relatively easily sorted.
Thanks
How about givng the user the option to determine the layout of the words? Just tryin to be a peacemaker.
I believe giving the user the choice of how to display the words would be great.
When this popped up on my screen after the 4.0a release, I was confused--it was pretty, but what was it for? But then I ran my mouse over and realized what it was. At first this made me wonder what the best use of it was--then it dawned on me that especially with the Topics cloud, I could see just how dense that particular passage was in concepts. Further, it's really no issue at all, the things that have been mentioned: if you don't think a word is right, click on it to get the real thing listed out "properly".
I teach 12 year olds in Sunday School. I think that using a picture of this (by screencap) will help them realize some things about bible study that they didn't know before, just by looking at it (like how dense a passage is, or what words might be important in the passage).
I never used the "important words" function in L3, really. I might actually find this as a VISUAL helpful.
Disclaimer: I don't study the original languages much, being a lay person with little knowledge of that. If I did, that might change my attitude toward it.
Question: I don't really understand the way the things are placed on the cloud. Besides SIZE, is there another reason the words or phrases are laid out the way they are? That would help me to understand how to use it better, I think.
Esther
Esther,
I think that it DOES work....
Size, (it seems to me) is the indicator of what's "more interesting" than something else.....
I actually like it much more now than I did earlier on in the thread....I'm ok with whichever way it goes....as long as the font, and hebrew markings and tech things are sorted out....
i haven't used the word cloud yet, but I kind of like it.
I also listen to Duran Duran and Kajagoogoo.
Just kidding. About the second sentence, that is. . . [:P]
