Logos 7 - What should it offer?

Bob Pritchett
Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280
edited November 2024 in English Forum

Wait -- I already know the answer! "Fix annoying-thing in Logos 6 first!" :-)

And we will! Multiple Logos 6.x releases are already scheduled, and you can help us prioritize improvements, optimizations, etc.

Visit http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6, which has just been updated to reflect Logos 6 changes.

Re-distribute your votes! Sort by 'Hot' or 'New' to look for things that aren't already at the top of the list.

We really do pay attention to UserVoice -- it's one of the best ways to get your request to the top of our list.

And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

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Comments

  • mike
    mike Member Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭

    1.Built-in OCR PDF converter for PBB.

    2.Better integration of the rest of my library into the Guides without me using a self custom collection. (I'm don't know how to put those rules together, neither more than half Logos users).(YOU make the collections NOT us)

    3.Make Vyrso resources into Logos's resources. (without custom collection, YOU do the collections)

    4.Make the drop down for parallel resource stretchable.

  • Tes
    Tes Member Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭

    Blessings in Christ.

  • David Paul
    David Paul Member Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭

    Not sure how I end up being the first to respond to many of your posts, but there it is. I also hesitate to be first because I'm sure you want upbeat, forward-looking ideas. Sorry...decidedly retrograde here. (Ah. good...others snuck in while I was typing.)

    Despite Bradley's "It is finished!" pronouncement for notes, I don't see what I'm looking for. Granted, I don't have L6 yet, and I will certainly take a look when I have the chance, but I'm pretty sure the things I want aren't baked into the pie. And User Voice is broken for me--has been for a while. On top of that, I also realize I am beating a very dead horse...even the flies have flown the coop. You've already shot down most of the things I find critical for daily use. But I will go ahead and take the time to screenshot as many of the issues and reasons for them as I can one last time. But it will have to wait until tomorrow, it's too late tonight.

    I will say this. While there are a few nifty things you have come out with since L3, I would permanently trade every single feature and data set and search option Logos has created since then in order to get notes to work like they do in L3 (with some minor additional tweaks thrown in). I realize I can't say that notes are more important than search ability, since search abilities generate note fodder, but at least for me, not having a highly utilitarian note function makes the search function nearly worthless. I will attempt to show why and how L3 gets the job done so well tomorrow.

    ASUS  ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti

    "The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."  Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.

  • Rosie Perera
    Rosie Perera Member Posts: 26,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    mike said:

    Built-in OCR PDF converter for PBB.

    Yup, great idea! I'd use that.

  • Veli Voipio
    Veli Voipio MVP Posts: 2,071

    1. Continue tagging the existing resources before L7

    2. Intelligent links (book version neutral and other functionality)(actually the Bible verse links are kind of advanced links: they can point to any language and version, and in some cases when the verse numbering is different, it can point to the correct content)

    Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11

  • JC54
    JC54 Member Posts: 311 ✭✭

    Bob, I am very happy you are so willing to pay attention to uservoice, but my feeling is that a very small percentage of users is actually using the tool. It might be an idea to have some action or promotion to motivate people to use uservoice. That would give more accurate information on what users want and it would give many users a place to voice their ideas.

  • Tes
    Tes Member Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭

    Bob, I am very happy you are so willing to pay attention to uservoice, but my feeling is that a very small percentage of users is actually using the tool. It might be an idea to have some action or promotion to motivate people to use uservoice. That would give more accurate information on what users want and it would give many users a place to voice their ideas.

    Bob, I am very happy you are so willing to pay attention to uservoice, but my feeling is that a very small percentage of users is actually using the tool. It might be an idea to have some action or promotion to motivate people to use uservoice. That would give more accurate information on what users want and it would give many users a place to voice their ideas.

    http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6,

    Blessings in Christ.

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,952

    Bob, I am very happy you are so willing to pay attention to uservoice, but my feeling is that a very small percentage of users is actually using the tool. It might be an idea to have some action or promotion to motivate people to use uservoice. That would give more accurate information on what users want and it would give many users a place to voice their ideas.

    You are probably right ... but I'm not feeling terribly generous at the moment. If a user doesn't care enough to use uservoice, should their voice count for much? I say that as someone who encouraged uservoice because I saw it used well with a different company. I use it when I care intensely about a feature; I ignore it when I don't have an axe to grind. At the moment not all my votes are used because I am deliberately thinking I have no particular vested interests and my votes would be split among several worthy suggestions based upon my whim of the day ... I'd rather not vote.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • James Hudson
    James Hudson Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭

    MJ. Smith said:

    If a user doesn't care enough to use uservoice

    Hi,

    I agrree with your sentiments, but I, for one, care passionately about Logos wanting it to become the best software and best user experience to enable users to study God's Word and makle preparation of sermons, personal and academic study as easy as possible.

    However, I stopped using UserVoice as it was clear that it was not being used by Logos employees. (evidence: rare comment from employees / very little marked as started and a few comments explaining why they won't be doing them - over the last 3 years).

    However, I was heartened by Bob's emboldened statement that they are now going to start using it again.

    I would like to see evidence for this by Logos putting a 'started' for (say) the top 10 user requests! [I still don't have the confdence yet that that will actually happen - if it doesn't then I still have to wonder whether they really want customers opinions!]

    I would then hope after the first 10 are implemented, they then move on to the next 10, and so on! That would show real commitment to 'User Voice'.

    James

  • JC54
    JC54 Member Posts: 311 ✭✭

    MJ. Smith said:

    You are probably right ... but I'm not feeling terribly generous at the moment.

    I am not (only) talking about generosity. I think there are serious users with serious opinion worth listening to, that are just not aware of the existence of uservoice. I, for one, accidentally ran into it while roaming the forums, but if I weren't into reading forumposts I'd never have known of its existence...

    So a one time promotion could increase the amount of users at uservoice and a bigger group of users attracts more users, and (probably) more attention from Logos. So uservoice would actually be a more interesting place for your thoughts than the forums (because at the moment I would launch an idea at the forums and not at uservoice).

  • Bruce Dunning
    Bruce Dunning MVP Posts: 11,161

    I know that this won't be a popular request but I'd love to see Latin resources morphologically tagged - especially key grammars and Bibles.

    Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

  • Benny
    Benny Member Posts: 40 ✭✭

    I'd love to see Latin resources morphologically tagged - especially key grammars and Bibles.

    +1

  • RyanB
    RyanB Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭

    I've mentioned it in previous forums and on user voice but since you asked I guess I can re-post it here (I thought Ask the Author was going to fill this need but as far as I can tell it only provides a way to dialogue with the author and doesn't give me the information I'm looking for):

    Almost every reference book I buy has a brief author bio on either the back cover or inner jacket. This info may contain the titles of other books written by the author, their education, hobbies, etc. This info is especially helpful when reading a work by an author you aren't familiar with. I assume that almost every book Logos publishes (at least that's been written in the last 50 years or so) would have this excerpt.

    Why not include it as a section in the Resource Information window for each book? For older works you could have a general bio for well known authors like Plato, Anselm, etc. This would be especially helpful as I read through things like commentaries which have different volumes written by different authors. Some authors I know, some I don't. I'd like to be able to read the same bio I can see on the back of the print edition.

    On most of the product pages I look at I can see that Logos already has this author information. It usually appears in the "About" section on the product page when you are ordering a new book. (For example, scroll to the bottom of this page to read about author Wayne Grudem.)

    The information is already there and Logos already has it, I'd just like to see that same information applied to the resource information window in my resources. In my personal opinion that would be more helpful than say "Search Fields" and "Indexes" which already appear there (at least for non-power users.)

  • Michael G Parry-Thomas
    Michael G Parry-Thomas Member Posts: 417 ✭✭

    There are many resources that have not been updated to work with version 6, from previous builds

    it would be good to have a place on the website where we could enter the titles of resources that do not work correctly because of changes in new versions of the software

    this has got to be a positive way of identifying problematic resources that could even cause instability in the programme due to links not working correctly to other resources due to changes,

  • Levi Durfey
    Levi Durfey Member Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭

    And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

    I would like to have the "today's readings" on the homepage be available as a window panel so that I don't have to switch between the homepage and my Bible for each reading.

  • Rick
    Rick Member Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭

    I don't think that my suggestion should be on user voice because it has already been planned (or at least discussed) by Faithlife. But I would love to see the PBB store that was at one time in the rumor mill implemented.

  • Kevin Olson
    Kevin Olson Member Posts: 173 ✭✭

    Wait -- I already know the answer! "Fix annoying-thing in Logos 6 first!" :-)

    And we will! Multiple Logos 6.x releases are already scheduled, and you can help us prioritize improvements, optimizations, etc.

    Visit http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6, which has just been updated to reflect Logos 6 changes.

    Re-distribute your votes! Sort by 'Hot' or 'New' to look for things that aren't already at the top of the list.

    We really do pay attention to UserVoice -- it's one of the best ways to get your request to the top of our list.

    And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

    It would be great if you would do with Systematic Theologies what you have done with Ancient Literature in the passage guide.  Under the Topic Guide, and/or under the Factbook, please put a link to all the sections of the Systematic Theologies that are in your library for the given topic.

    (For Logos 6, I wish you would put the NET Bible Notes under the Textual Variant Notes.)  

    Great job on Logos 6!

    Blessings,

    Kevin 

  • PL
    PL Member Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭

    Wait -- I already know the answer! "Fix annoying-thing in Logos 6 first!" :-)

    And we will! Multiple Logos 6.x releases are already scheduled, and you can help us prioritize improvements, optimizations, etc.

    Visit http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6, which has just been updated to reflect Logos 6 changes.

    Re-distribute your votes! Sort by 'Hot' or 'New' to look for things that aren't already at the top of the list.

    We really do pay attention to UserVoice -- it's one of the best ways to get your request to the top of our list.

    And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

    1. A super-intelligent and super-intuitive unified Search box that will understand what I'm looking for in plain English, and decide for me what type of search (Basic, Bible, Everything, Morph, etc) will best satisfy what answer the user is looking for.  Basically a super-Fuzzy search on steroids, as smart as Google search.  Maybe even combine the generic Search box with the Command box (relax the strict syntax needed for the Command box to recognize more human language-like commands) e.g "stop receiving beta updates" "open my top 3 bibles to Jn 3:16" "define ectypal" "what are the Greek words that translate to love in English" "what's an omer". In other words, build a Google-style single search box for the non-technical lay user to direct them to the right resources, guides, tools that are currently powerfully built into Logos 6 but are overwhelming and daunting to discover, learn, and use effectively.

    2. Make the Windows desktop app as touch friendly as the iOS apps, especially fix scrolling problems and make highlighting as easy and intuitive with finger without a mouse or stylus. (I hope this will be in the 6.x roadmap and we don't have to wait till Logos 7).

    3. Massively migrate useful new features from Logos 6 to the mobile apps And make the mobile apps more functional offline.

    4. Rethink the Faithlife Groups platform and make it more useful to yhe broader Logos user base beyond the minority who currently use it for private small Bible study groups. Thinking along he lines of the YouVersion / Facebook worldwide connectivity paradigm rather than the church small group usage.

    5. Radical rethink of the constant download / reindexing paradigm. I know I can turn off automatic downloads but can the reindexing be rethought through so that it happens so quickly (a few seconds) for most machines in most cases (e.g. after downloading a couple of Vyrso books) that it can simply be done in the background without notifying the user or slowing down the machine.

    Peter

  • DMB
    DMB Member Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I think the latin support should be 'next'.  In my quest to reduce the massive update downloading, I deleted my english Perseus, and kept the greek and latin texts, the latter with the assumption Logos would eventually get around to it (if not already).  Even yesterday, in the Muratorian book, they were referencing the old latin texts.

    ----

    Relative to MJ's comment about using UserVoice, I've used it maybe once for something fgh wanted. Maybe it works for Logos.  My thinking is that their development should follow their strategies.  In the latin example, if it plugs into Noet or Verbum sufficiently (market growth), then there's the answer.  If their observations on L3 were correct (many features not used), then I'd also wonder about the actual user base ... what do they actually use?

    I think many of 'us' have mentioned a more easy-to-use version (or same engine, just thin it down) for entry level in the churches, but that will never happen.

    Most of my whining hasn't been on new features (I'm coming around on Sense Lexicon), but implementation of 'fixes'.  I still don't understand how the designer(s) think.  Sort of 'our way or the highway ... options just cause a lot of phone calls'.  The iOS scroll option was just the opposite, this week. Refreshing.

    Anyway, I'm not a good source. I'm still on L5 and of course .... Libby!!

    "If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.

  • Dave Moser
    Dave Moser Member Posts: 473 ✭✭✭

    Bob,

    Here are my initial thoughts:

    New Features:

    Improved Features:

    • Thank you for making notes applicable to more than one verse in L6. If you could give us the option to visually show those connections (some sort of arrow linking the thought I'm representing in the note) that would be awesome.
    • Allow ePub import to PBB.
  • JH
    JH Member Posts: 801 ✭✭✭

    It would be great if you would do with Systematic Theologies what you have done with Ancient Literature in the passage guide.  Under the Topic Guide, and/or under the Factbook, please put a link to all the sections of the Systematic Theologies that are in your library for the given topic.

    (For Logos 6, I wish you would put the NET Bible Notes under the Textual Variant Notes.)  

    Great job on Logos 6!

    Blessings,

    Kevin 

    Great idea! [Y]

  • Tes
    Tes Member Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭

    Bob,

    Here are my initial thoughts:

    New Features:

    Improved Features:

    • Thank you for making notes applicable to more than one verse in L6. If you could give us the option to visually show those connections (some sort of arrow linking the thought I'm representing in the note) that would be awesome.
    • Allow ePub import to PBB.

    image

    Blessings in Christ.

  • Mike Tourangeau
    Mike Tourangeau Member Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭

    Resource specific note files would be great. When you open a resource and add a note it knows you want to use the note file X. 

  • Mike Tourangeau
    Mike Tourangeau Member Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭

    Give us a way to suggest links like we can suggest typo fixes. You can have a person approve of them and then update the resources accordingly.

  • Tes
    Tes Member Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭

    the ability to show up verses from Notes to power Look up.

    Blessings in Christ.

  • Rick
    Rick Member Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭

    It would be great if you would do with Systematic Theologies what you have done with Ancient Literature in the passage guide.  Under the Topic Guide, and/or under the Factbook, please put a link to all the sections of the Systematic Theologies that are in your library for the given topic.

    Now this is a good idea!

  • Bob Pritchett
    Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280

    mike said:

    3.Make Vyrso resources into Logos's resources. (without custom collection, YOU do the collections)

    I'm not sure what this means. Have a way to filter to just Vyrso / not-Vyrso resources as a default collection?

  • Bob Pritchett
    Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280

    2. Intelligent links (book version neutral and other functionality)(actually the Bible verse links are kind of advanced links: they can point to any language and version, and in some cases when the verse numbering is different, it can point to the correct content)

    We already support 95+ 'canonical referencing schemes' that are book independent, like Bible verses, references to Shakespeare, Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, Philo, etc.

    Do you just want more / better tagging with these, or are there some schemes we're missing?

    (Dramatically improved 'biblio' links -- from bibliographies to editions of the resource in our library or on the web -- are planned for the future. We're working on that now.)

  • Bob Pritchett
    Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280

    However, I stopped using UserVoice as it was clear that it was not being used by Logos employees. (evidence: rare comment from employees / very little marked as started and a few comments explaining why they won't be doing them - over the last 3 years).

    I'm sorry it looks this way -- it actually gets a lot of attention, and I think Logos 6 shows that we were reading it closely. (Unfortunately 400 million notes suggestions were wrapped up in one entry, and so a huge amount of work went into knocking off just one UserVoice item... ;-) )

    We may need to upgrade our account so that more than one person can give official answers. Right now you'll see many of the top items do have some feedback; the ones that don't are because we don't have a plan yet, but are continuing to monitor the item to gauge user interest. (We really don't see how/why to import/export notes to EverNote, for example. It seems like a massive amount of complexity, given he inherent difficulties of sync and the fact that EverNote doesn't feature attachment points like we do, which means it would be incredibly fragile /e asy to break a Logos note by editing in EverNote. But it has lots of votes so we keep watching it.)

  • Bob Pritchett
    Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280

    Ryan B said:

    Almost every reference book I buy has a brief author bio on either the back cover or inner jacket.

    Ryan B said:

    Why not include it as a section in the Resource Information window for each book?

    This is planned; we've invested a lot in getting good Author data associated with resources, and will start exposing it more, and in more places. (See https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=will+varner&Author=17030%7cWilliam+Varner&redirecttoauthor=true for an example.)

  • John Brumett
    John Brumett Member Posts: 612 ✭✭

    Exegetical Guide Improvements:

    If a Lexicon lists a certain definition for a certain passage, have that definition listed as a link or highlighted in the exegetical guide.  

    For Example Romans 1:20 the word world (kosmos) is listed under the defination orderly universe in BDAG.  Show the link  in the exegetical guide to that passage in BDAG.

    It would also be nice to have a compare all lexicons in context.  Sort of like a sense lexicon for all lexicons.  I know that all passages are not listed in the lexicons but if a certain passage is listed have that definition show up in the Exegetical Guide.      

     

  • Everett Headley
    Everett Headley Member Posts: 951 ✭✭

    How about fixing journals that have languished for 2 years?

  • Chris Myers
    Chris Myers Member Posts: 27 ✭✭

    I would be delighted to get one thing out of Logos 7:  SPEED. 

    I run Logos on a Macbook Pro 2.3 GHz i5 with 16 GB RAM and SSD drive.  Logos is the only thing I run on this machine that I would characterize as really slow.  Really slow.

  • Michael A. Lasley
    Michael A. Lasley Member Posts: 226 ✭✭

    Integrate Vyrso in the accounting loop. I use credits to keep from having a large number of small charges. It works well with the Logos site, but all Vyrso transactions charge my credit card regardless of whether I have credit.

  • Francis
    Francis Member Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭

    1. DRAMATICALLY improve the help file, perhaps distinguishing between introductory, intermediate and advanced concepts: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/6782863-update-and-improve-the-help-file 

    2. Improve user document searches display: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/5867222-improve-content-search-display

    3. Improve offline functionality for mobile apps: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/6782777-expand-offline-capabilities-of-mobile-apps

    4. Perhaps as a corollary of # 1 and in the same line as the text converter, provide research data tools such guides to morphologies, to ancient literature abbreviations (using for instance the SBL guide): http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/6782871-provide-guides-to-research-data-such-as-morphologi 

    5. Enable users to choose whether to integrate different ecosystems (Vyrso, Noet, Logos) in terms of resources and settings.

    6. Enable profiles for different users in the same family.

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 12,119

    However, I stopped using UserVoice as it was clear that it was not being used by Logos employees. (evidence: rare comment from employees / very little marked as started and a few comments explaining why they won't be doing them - over the last 3 years).

    I'm sorry it looks this way -- it actually gets a lot of attention, and I think Logos 6 shows that we were reading it closely.

    I just marked 41 suggestions as completed on Thursday. (Even if you argue that "Rework notes function" wasn't really completed, that leaves 40 items that were.)

    I would like to see evidence for this by Logos putting a 'started' for (say) the top 10 user requests! [I still don't have the confdence yet that that will actually happen - if it doesn't then I still have to wonder whether they really want customers opinions!]

    I'm confused by this. Are you saying that we should mark the top ten suggestions as started just because they're the top ten on UserVoice? We won't be doing that, because we don't practice "UserVoice-driven development". It is definitely an important source of customer feedback, but we also take the following into account: Suggestions forum posts, ideas on this thread, emails to Bob, feedback from Morris Proctor training seminars, aggregated feedback from phone calls to CS, usage analytics from the software, customer comments at conferences, feedback from our field sales reps, etc.

    If you're just asking us to mark things that are started as "Started", I think we do a pretty good job of that. (We do intentionally change the UserVoice status late in the process, because we sometimes internal or external forces cause us to temporarily put something on the backburner, and we've seen that it's frustrating to customers for items to linger in the "Started" state for a long time, or even go back to having no status.)

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 12,119

    I am very happy you are so willing to pay attention to uservoice, but my feeling is that a very small percentage of users is actually using the tool.

    UserVoice is just one of our feedback channels: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/96967/668592.aspx#668592 

    (But it does provide a very valuable feature of quickly sorting suggestions by popularity, which is why we're promoting it in this thread.)

  • James Hudson
    James Hudson Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭

    However, I stopped using UserVoice as it was clear that it was not being used by Logos employees. (evidence: rare comment from employees / very little marked as started and a few comments explaining why they won't be doing them - over the last 3 years).

    I'm sorry it looks this way -- it actually gets a lot of attention, and I think Logos 6 shows that we were reading it closely. (Unfortunately 400 million notes suggestions were wrapped up in one entry, and so a huge amount of work went into knocking off just one UserVoice item... ;-) )

    We may need to upgrade our account so that more than one person can give official answers. Right now you'll see many of the top items do have some feedback; the ones that don't are because we don't have a plan yet, but are continuing to monitor the item to gauge user interest. (We really don't see how/why to import/export notes to EverNote, for example. It seems like a massive amount of complexity, given he inherent difficulties of sync and the fact that EverNote doesn't feature attachment points like we do, which means it would be incredibly fragile /e asy to break a Logos note by editing in EverNote. But it has lots of votes so we keep watching it.)

    Thank-you! As I said, I am heartened that you have made it clear that you actually use User Voice.

    The '400 million' notes suggestions and even the current high flier about 'Evernote' should show what customers want - as I read it, there has been a great clarion call for an improvement in notes (over the last 3 and a half years) and there are still (even in Logos 6) weakness in the notes functionality and still many outstanding features from that one User Voice option that haven't yet been implemented (despite the 'huge amount of work" for which we thank you).

    Many users over the years have given up on you ever doing anything related to notes and consequently since moved to other solutions (such as Evernote - and hence the other high-count user voice option). You may have missed the boat a little!

    My personal number one suggestion for Logos 7 would be to implement all the unimplemented notes features in the now (for some reason "complete") Rework notes option.

    Anyway, thanks for continuing to listen to your customers and your drive and desire to create the best Bible study software while trying to juggle and manage the myriad and conflicting suggestions, thoughts, advice from us forum users [;)]

    We really do appreciate you, your company, your concern and your passion. Thanks Bob!

  • Michael A. Lasley
    Michael A. Lasley Member Posts: 226 ✭✭

    Provide some type of auto alignment capability on layouts. This would move the position of all books in the layout to a certain point in the Bible if they have that type of index.

    Suppose I am studying Hebrews, chapter by chapter. What I do now is keep a primary layout that has links on every resource. I have already selected all of the Bibles and commentaries that I want to review by using the other tools available. So I use this layout to reset the position in all the Bibles and commentaries. After the reset, I remove all links and just put back the links on my primary Bible and Copy Bible verses. Then I store this layout to use in this increment of my study. That way as I read each commentary I do not have the overhead of all of them moving as I read and when I go to the next one it starts right on the place I want to read.

    Then when I am ready to do a new chapter, I repeat this whole exercise and store a new layout for the next study.

    It would short-cut the process if I had a special command to realign all the resources in the layout without having each one linked beforehand. That way I could keep the links I want during use, but still be able to reposition whenever I wanted.

    I hope this makes sense. If there is already a better way to do this , someone let me know.

    Edit: This is a pain and complex because I may have as many as 40-50 resources in the layout, including commentaries, sermons and journals.

  • RyanB
    RyanB Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭

    Ryan B said:

    Almost every reference book I buy has a brief author bio on either the back cover or inner jacket.

    Ryan B said:

    Why not include it as a section in the Resource Information window for each book?

    This is planned; we've invested a lot in getting good Author data associated with resources, and will start exposing it more, and in more places. (See https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=will+varner&Author=17030%7cWilliam+Varner&redirecttoauthor=true for an example.)

    Thanks Bob! I can't think of any other company I regularly do business with that has so much opportunity for direct contact with the CEO. That says a lot about who you guys are. I truly appreciate that about Logos and wanted to say thank you for taking the time to respond and keep us updated (especially on a holiday weekend.).

  • James Hudson
    James Hudson Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭

    I would like to see evidence for this by Logos putting a 'started' for (say) the top 10 user requests! [I still don't have the confdence yet that that will actually happen - if it doesn't then I still have to wonder whether they really want customers opinions!]

    I'm confused by this. Are you saying that we should mark the top ten suggestions as started just because they're the top ten on UserVoice? We won't be doing that, because we don't practice "UserVoice-driven development"

    Sorry, I was not meaning to be confusing.

    I understand you take feedback/suggestions from many sources - but it seemed to me that this thread was saying your prefered form was user voice.

    I was indeed suggesting that if you wanted customer suggestions (what this thread called for) and if your preferred method was User Voice, then surely you would want to implement what your customers prioritised on User Voice. (otherwise what would be the point of asking customers for their input?)

    I think I probably don't understand User Voice because I really thought it would help drive development. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

    James

    PS I do think you do a pretty good job of marking those things as started as 'Started' and that was not at all what i was suggesting. I was actually saying that I think you should aim to implement the (say) top 10 suggestions on User Voice as they indicate customers priorites.

  • Lee
    Lee Member Posts: 1,148 ✭✭

    Bob Pritchett

    Before working on Logos 7. 

    I would really hope that the staff would complete the tagging on the new resources Spurgeon's 365 Days not tagged to New Park Street Pulpit collection.

    @Bob a big part of my upgrade to L6 Platinum was the Spurgeon sermon collection and I find that the tagging is still needing to be done.[:(]

    Please look into the below link. and Thank You 

    https://community.logos.com/forums/p/96810/667290.aspx#667290  

    L4 BS, L5 RB & Gold, L6 S & R Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum, L9 Baptist Platinum, L10 Baptist Silver
    2021 MacBook Pro M1 Pro 14" 16GB 512GB SSD, running MacOS Monterey   iPad Mini 6,   iPhone 11.

  • Veli Voipio
    Veli Voipio MVP Posts: 2,071

    Bob Pritchett said:

    2. Intelligent links (book version neutral and other functionality)...

    We already support 95+ 'canonical referencing schemes' that are book independent, like Bible verses, references to Shakespeare, Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, Philo, etc.

    Do you just want more / better tagging with these, or are there some schemes we're missing?

    1. My first example is from the Exegetical summaries. They have links to BAGD, but I have the newer version of that dictionary, abbreviated BDAG. The references are using the page number, so the linking to the other edition can be challenging, but I assume it could be done. And the user should have an option to use/ not use this feature. (There is similar issue with some Bible versions, I have four NIV versions, but sometimes it cannot refer to any NIV at all)

    2. My second example is also from the Exegetical summaries. If I am in a location, for example under Joel 2:22, and then I click KJV, then it shows Joel 2:22 in KJV. But in most other Exegetical summaries this does not work. [:(]

    (Dramatically improved 'biblio' links -- from bibliographies to editions of the resource in our library or on the web -- are planned for the future. We're working on that now.)

    [Y]

    By the way, if you need a voluntary tester person, I could do some tasks for Logos as a "stupid" tester [:)] 

    Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11

  • Fr Devin Roza
    Fr Devin Roza MVP Posts: 2,423

    And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

    Here are some ideas.

    Information Pane

    I would like to see a pretty major overhaul of the information pane. Here are the more important ones:

    1. The “definition” feature should have the option to show the glosses from the “Lemma” section of the Bible Word Study Guide of the dictionary you have chosen defines the terms. Currently it just shows the beginning of the definition as it appears in the dictionary, which in most cases is useless, as you can’t actually see the definition. This is especially the case with Hebrew lexicons, which tend to begin each definition with information etymology and related ANE words. Note that this is different from the already present option to show a "Gloss", as that Gloss is not taken from your highest prioritized lexicon.
    2. For Hebrew verbs summary information (again, according to the dictionary you chose) should include brief definitions for the Qal, Piel, Hiphil, etc. forms, indicating QAL: definition; PIEL: definition, etc. For a great example of what I'm talking about, cf. BibleWorks.
    3. I would like to choose the order of elements in the information pane. For example, I like having the “Translated” section, but don’t want it to be on top.
    4. Let me turn off the “Clause” database information in the Information pane.
    5. I would like to see “root” information in the information pane (i.e., a brief summary of the root(s), with the words from that root and their glosses). 
    6. Please give an option in Hebrew to stop looking up attached definite articles, prepositions, pronouns, etc. Logos already knows which word is the primary word, because when you double click on a word with attached articles, prepositions or pronouns it always looks up the main word. I don’t EVER want to see attached definite articles, prepositions, or pronouns in the information pane, they just make it so that you can’t actually see the definition and information you are interested in.
    7. Add Syriac as a supported language for the Info pane!

    Flash Cards

    1. Each Lemma should have a column which says how many times that Lemma appears in the OT / NT respectively. If you want to, make it personalized for every version (e.g. NA27, NA28, , or just pick one version and go with it (such as the NA28 and BHS), but this information has to be there for this option to be useful.
    2. It should be easy to filter by how many times the Lemma appears (for example, if I know that I have memorized all the words in the NT that appear 25x or more, and now I am studying Luke chapter 10, I should easily be able to filter the vocabulary of Luke 10 by words that appear in the NT 24x or fewer).
    3. Each lemma should include the form that is actually studied in universities. For example, the form that is learned of the word λογος is λογος, ου (well… with the accents added in), with the nominative and genitive forms both included, the genitive form being shortened. Similarly, adjectives are learned with the nominative masculine, feminine, and neuter form. Verbs in Hebrew are learned (at least optionally) with the more common of the QAL, PIEL, HIPHIL, etc. definitions, while verbs in Greek (at least optionally for the more common irregular verbs) should include the 6 principle parts.

    Search

    1. Most importantly, create an advanced search builder. I would imagine this working with "columns" that are connected by search operators like AND / OR / WITHIN, etc. Each column could begin with a dropdown that lets you choose the type of info (text, Milestone, PassageList, Morph, Clause, greek word, hebrew word, etc.). After choosing from the dropdown, depending on the option chosen, other boxes would appear to the right that would correspond to the options of that particular option / search extension.
    2. Create search extensions for Morph and Clause to make this possible.
    3. New search operator, “IGNORE” – Recently I wrote a 250+ page index of the Liturgy of the Hours, Roman Missal, etc., using Logos to run searches. I oftentimes found that I wanted to exclude certain phrases from my search… phrases that included words that I was searching for! For example, I am searching for the term “Christ” but I want to exclude the common phrase “Christ Our Lord”. If I run the search for Christ ANDNOT “Christ Our Lord” it would ruin my search results. I might have 100 hits for “Christ” in an article, but with just 1 “Christ our Lord” hit that entire article would disappear, along with the 100 true hits that I was interested in. What I would like to see is an operator that allows me to “IGNORE” the hits for “Christ Our Lord”, without disqualifying an article that has those hits. Note that this problem does not normally arise when searching the Bible, as the biblical verse are so short that ANDNOT almost never is problematic. But once Logos is used to start systematically searching resources with longer articles this “IGNORE” feature becomes important.
    4. An easier way to include accents in searching (could be taken care of in an advanced search builder).
    5. After running a search, you can navigate through the search results by pressing Alt+Down or by clicking the up and down arrows, having selected “Search Result” from the dropdown on the locator bar. When you navigate to the next search hit, Logos scrolls the resource so that the search hit is on the top line of the screen. This does not allow you to see any context of the search result. I would like Logos to navigate instead to the hit result, but with about 2 lines of text above it. (Note: as I have been creating the book “Fulfilled in Christ” I have gone through literally 100s of thousands of search results using this method. I can’t tell you how many thousands of times I have had to scroll up just to see a line or two of text about the search hit and see what it was saying)

    Universal Passage Guide

    The Passage Guide is limited to just the Bible. We need a universal Passage Guide, that doesn't care if you are searching in the Bible or elsewhere. Think Noet, just make sure the new features for Noet make it into Logos and Verbum!

    Cited By Tool

    This is already a mini-universal Passage Guide. Hopefully this will be done before Logos 7, but this tool needs a major overhall. This has already been discussed so much on here I don't think I need to go into details.

    Bible Words Study Guide

    1. Link Set – I want to be able to add the Bible Word Study Guide to a link set. The reason is very simple. I find the “root” report of the BWS to be extremely useful for understanding the semantic range of a word. I have created a custom BWS with only the root report. I would like to add that BWS to a link set together with my Hebrew / Greek dictionaries. When I double click on a word, the dictionary navigates to it, and so would the BWS root report if it could be linked to the dictionary.
    2. Send Hyperlinks Here – When I right click on a word and generate a BWS, normally I want it to generate in the same BWS window I already have open. I want to be able to indicate that with the “Send hyperlinks here” option on the BWS, so as to avoid having to close every BWS window I open.

    Scientific Commentaries and Link Sets

    Anyone who tries to use scientific commentaries such as Word or Anchor or Hermeneia together with a “Link Set” in Logos quickly gets quite frustrated. There are numerous comments about this all over the forums. The reason is that the scientific commentaries comment the same passage in three or four different places – first they present a translation, then they comment the textual criticism problems, then they comment on the structure, then they comment on the meaning, etc. The “Link Set” tends to navigate to the first of these, which is oftentimes (maybe even normally) not what you are interested in…

    I suggest that you create a dataset that marks up the different types of sections in the Commentary, and then, when multiple types of sections are available, allow us to prioritize those sections, so that the Link Set will go to the "Notes" section by default, or the "Textual Criticism" section, or whatever section we prefer.

    Print / Export

    When selecting the options to export to Word, include footnotes when they are displayed in Logos.

    Copy and Paste

    Add the “Setting” to “Copy Abbreviations” (or simply stop copying them when copying and pasting with the setting “Copy Footnotes”) – It is extremely irritating when copying scientific words that you copy into Word and you have, in addition to the footnotes which you wanted to copy, a repeating list of about 20 abbreviations per page, each one taking up one line as if they were footnotes!!

    Address bar of Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries

    When typing in the address bar of Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries, it should transliterate by default for you into the respective language. Ideally it would search for both the transliterated and the non-transliterated results, so that you could type in something like “Introduction” and it would find it, but you could also type in something like “dbr” and it would find דבר. Note that currently not even typing h: or g: works!! You have to actually change your keyboard layout to type in a word in the address bar of a Hebrew or Greek dictionary!

    New Tab

    The improvements in 5.2 of the New Tab are nice. I suggest that above the icons which display your favorite resources, or above the list of similar resources, there by a little text box. When you begin typing it in, it begins filtering your Library + all other things you might want to open (like search pane, information pane, etc.). 

    Library Columns

    I would like to see the original date of publication of every work, and be able to easily filter, create collections by it, etc. Useful for creating collections of Church Fathers, Medieval Writings, Commentaries from 1900-1950, Commentaries from 1950-Present Day, etc. I am particularly interested in the date the original work was originally published, but it would be nice to also see the date that the particular edition was also published (current publishing date indicates the date the reprint was published).

    Free Books inside of Books and Articles inside of Journals

    I would like to see books which are inside of books (such as the books which are inside of Schaff's Church Father Series) treated as books. Logos should know that such and such a book is inside of a larger book, and that info should be available for citation purposes, but for things like creating collections, search results, etc., it would be MUCH more useful to normally just see the book. For example, if I want to create a collection of books by "Justin Martyr" that is impossible currently, because his works are included in Schaff's volumes together with other works. 

    Similarly, for articles normally what one is interested in is the article, the author, etc. Treating the article as a seperate book (with the info about the journal of course also available, even for the purpose of creating collections, etc.), would allow one to create a collection of articles by a certain author, etc.

    Search results would also become much more relevant. Try running searches on Schaff's Church Father series. The results are something like "Chapter 3 from NPNFFE2". Totally irrelevant and not helpful. If the books were treated as real books, you would get results like "Chapter 2 of City of God by Augustine" etc.

    Better Syriac Support

    1. Information pane support
    2. Morphologically tagged Leiden Peshitta

    Glosses on all Greek / Hebrew / Syriac / Aramaic Morphologically Tagged Bibles

    So many Bibles in these languages are morphologically tagged, but for whatever reason don't have the Glosses included, so you have to have the Info pane open. Add Glosses to all morph tagged Bibles.

    Redesigned Guides and Files Menu

    The "New" document or Guide should ideally just filter the right hand pane, which could include folders. Then, the right hand pane would offer contextually relevant options, based on the type of document or guide selected. So, a Passage List selection would offer the possibility to select a passage list in the right hand pane, and then run a search for it - allowing Logos to show off all these fancy new features.

    Morphology Charts

    These are a great idea, that I have long hoped for, but which I think were poorly implemented. They should display the Morph chart according to the standard textbook format (which would put, for example, the Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, and Vocative in a single column, and not in a single row). As well, they should indicate the "type" of morphological "pattern" that such and such a word follows, with a link to seeing that pattern with a word that is typically used by textbooks to illustrate the pattern.

    Maps

    Add data layers, such as altitude, cities, etc. that can be turned on or off.

    Ideally include a 3D view.

    Allow exporting custom maps

    Online Media

    All online media should have local resources with the thumbnails and metadata, to allow for integrated and quick searching and browsing. They should be placeholders for the downloadable media. When feasible, they should include low res versions for offline use. From a user interface point of view, it should be transparent to the user whether the image they are interacting with is online or offline, even if that difference is somehow indicated visually, or with different options, etc.

    Documentation of Academic Resources

    The sources, authors, and methodology used in the creation of all inhouse resources should be clearly marked, and easily available. This has generally been well done in the new stuff you have been producing, but older resources need to have the same treatment. Here I am thinking of things like the Morph databases, and other older resources that have little or no documentation.

  • And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here. Should we have a new data set? A completely new feature area? More videos? More teaching material? A cuneiform word processor? Scanned images of original manuscripts? Manual categorization of theologians? Bible words tagged by emotive impact?

    Virtual reality 3-D walk through of various items: e.g. Temples (similar controls as Google's Street View)  Virtual landscapes where Yeshua walked (with appearance option for then and now).  Virtual missionary journeys with Paul.

    Jewish Interactive Astronomy.

    Jewish feast day integration with time-line and astronomical events.  Temple destruction on the 9th of AV plus more historical events.

    Visual Filters for inductive Bible study.

    Media resources with original manuscript images that have tagging.

    Adding "Duck Duck Go" or "Google" sections to Search Everything.

    mike said:

    (YOU make the collections NOT us) ... (without custom collection, YOU do the collections)

    Faithlife group "Logos Collections" => https://faithlife.com/logos-collections/documents has 318 collection documents that can be freely copied by members or followers, including Vyrso

    Adding Subject and Series Metadata to Vyrso resources would be appreciated.

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • EastTN
    EastTN Member Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭

    Improved Features:

    • Thank you for making notes applicable to more than one verse in L6. If you could give us the option to visually show those connections (some sort of arrow linking the thought I'm representing in the note) that would be awesome.
    • Allow ePub import to PBB.

    A big [Y] for both of these.  I would suggest a minor clarification to the second suggestion (I believe this was the intent).  "Allow import of non-DRM ePub files to PBB."

  • Bruce Roth
    Bruce Roth Member Posts: 328 ✭✭

    Why not add a button to the Logos application for User Voice?  If I had known of this or most likely I forgot about it I would of been out there voting in the past. 

    I would assume a lot of ideas come to mind when one is using the app, so why not an ability to quickly go out to the User Voice site and enter your idea or vote.  With my mind I would probably forget an idea and then loose sight of entering it. 

  • Unix
    Unix Member Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭

    [Y]:

    Scientific Commentaries and Link Sets

    Anyone who tries to use scientific commentaries such as Word or Anchor or Hermeneia together with a “Link Set” in Logos quickly gets quite frustrated. There are numerous comments about this all over the forums. The reason is that the scientific commentaries comment the same passage in three or four different places – first they present a translation, then they comment the textual criticism problems, then they comment on the structure, then they comment on the meaning, etc. The “Link Set” tends to navigate to the first of these, which is oftentimes (maybe even normally) not what you are interested in…

    I suggest that you create a dataset that marks up the different types of sections in the Commentary, and then, when multiple types of sections are available, allow us to prioritize those sections, so that the Link Set will go to the "Notes" section by default, or the "Textual Criticism" section, or whatever section we prefer.


    Search

    1. In the results, the book titles should not be so dim grey, it's currently too difficult to see the titles.
    2. In the results, it should be possible to group the results by title and collapse all.

    Disclosure!
    trulyergonomic.com
    48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 12

  • Pastor James
    Pastor James Member Posts: 273 ✭✭

    Hi Bob,

    First, thanks for a great product. Second, I'm not a programmer, nor do I play one on TV. Third, I have been involved in the design of a few financial systems from a user standpoint. Perhaps what I'm about to say is in place, and I just don't see it. From my experience as a user, I know there were many times when we would ask for something (Logos UserVoice) and the programers would come back with one of 4 replies, (1) that feature is going to cost $$$$$, and I would reply, "its only worth $$ to me, so forget it, (2) you are asking for XX, have you considered doing YY instead, and I would, yes or no, (3) it just can't be done, or (4) here is your request.

    I don't see this type of interaction. My concern is you may be spending too much time ($$$$$$$) on taking care of the squeaky wheels in the user community, when it may not be worth it for the rest of the user community, nor for your company. Just my thoughts.

  • Nick Highland
    Nick Highland Member Posts: 173 ✭✭

    In addition to the other PBB requests, a more robust PBB editor would be really helpful.  The macros that I've borrowed from other users, as well as additional that I've made myself, have been very helpful for creating PBB's in Word.  But I also know that Logos has the ability to pick out non-milestoned scripture references.  So I picture an editor that automatically scans for potential milestones and makes suggestions, allowing users to create the best PBB available.

    For example, if I'm working on importing a public domain commentary on Luke, I might "ask" the new, more robust PBB editor to find all references to passages in Luke, and allow me to select which ones to add milestone references to (and of course, I'd click "yes" or "no" and it would add the milestone automatically).  

    The PBB is such an important feature - especially for the few of us who are still saving just for the starter base package and have no realistic hope of purchasing something larger in the near future.  (Though I do make several smaller purchases on a semi-frequent basis).  I would really like to see time spent on it to make it more valuable.