Attn: MJ Smith - Question about your tagging system

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 10 2015 8:03 AM

I came across this image and am very curious about your tagging methods:

Would you be willing to share with me (and the rest of the community) what your system is for tagging commentaries? Some of it is self-explanatory from the image, but I am particularly interested in where you drew the information from used in the tags and what all you include in the various categories listed (ie, what all methodologies do you have tags for, etc?). Is there a group I can join and download documents with this information? I don't know if I am asking this in the best way, but I am intrigued by what I see and want to know more about the system you use. I apologize if this should have been a private message. I thought I would ask here so the community could benefit. Oh, and I found that image here:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/88829.aspx?PageIndex=3

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 12:53 AM

My tagging system is partially for my own use and partially to run examples for answers in the forums.

  • MP is the Morris Proctor classification system
  • MB is the Mark Barnes classification system
  • In the cases where it is stated in have tagged the version preferred/used by a resource so I can check an argument against the translation actually used by the author.
  • I categorize resources by the canon they use (in broad terms) so that I can identify resources relevant to broader canon questions. This is particularly when I expand to the Ecumenical canon of the RSV/NRSV
  • Methodology is assigned more often to monographs than commentary series but it allows me to look at a passage from a particular perspective: literary, socio-rhetorical, form, structural ... my categories tend to be those with which the author self-identifies. I am disappointed that Logos does not provide a broader range e.g. the Wiley-Blackwell reception history series, 3rd world, post-modern, feminist, type-scene, reader-response ... I use Tate, W. Randolph. Handbook for Biblical Interpretation: An Essential Guide to Methods, Terms, and Concepts. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2012. as a check list of methods I want to explore.
  • I tag resources by the section in the Guide that they support, that they would support if/when they are tagged and should appear in should the section exist. "Guide section" is where they currently appear; "Guide collection" is what I use to create additional sections in my custom guides. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 4:51 AM

Thank you for the explanation! If I may ask a few more questions, how do you leverage these tags in your guides - does your passage guide sort your commentaries by any/all of these classification systems? Also, I am curious how much of your tagging could be reproduced from the documents at various Faithlife groups. I know there is a group for denominational affiliation and I know there is a commentary collections group that among other things has collection rules for the Mark Barnes system. Would one have to manually reproduce the rest of your system, or are there other groups I don't know about that could help save some time? Thanks again. I always enjoy hearing how those more knowledgeable than myself do things.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:59 AM

MJ. Smith:

My tagging system is partially for my own use and partially to run examples for answers in the forums.

  • MP is the Morris Proctor classification system
  • MB is the Mark Barnes classification system
  • In the cases where it is stated in have tagged the version preferred/used by a resource so I can check an argument against the translation actually used by the author.
  • I categorize resources by the canon they use (in broad terms) so that I can identify resources relevant to broader canon questions. This is particularly when I expand to the Ecumenical canon of the RSV/NRSV
  • Methodology is assigned more often to monographs than commentary series but it allows me to look at a passage from a particular perspective: literary, socio-rhetorical, form, structural ... my categories tend to be those with which the author self-identifies. I am disappointed that Logos does not provide a broader range e.g. the Wiley-Blackwell reception history series, 3rd world, post-modern, feminist, type-scene, reader-response ... I use Tate, W. Randolph. Handbook for Biblical Interpretation: An Essential Guide to Methods, Terms, and Concepts. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2012. as a check list of methods I want to explore.
  • I tag resources by the section in the Guide that they support, that they would support if/when they are tagged and should appear in should the section exist. "Guide section" is where they currently appear; "Guide collection" is what I use to create additional sections in my custom guides. 

Do you have a link to read more about MP and MB's classification systems?  Always curious.

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 9:34 AM

David Taylor Jr:
Do you have a link to read more about MP and MB's classification systems?  Always curious.

Here is page 1 of the thread I referenced above. It shows the system used by Mark and is where I came across the image by MJ that prompted me to start this thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/88829.aspx?PageIndex=1

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 12:36 PM

David Taylor Jr:
Do you have a link to read more about MP and MB's classification systems?  Always curious.

Probably not the most current link but this thread has the Best Commentaries grouping and the Morris Proctor version as a Logos doc file. Types of commentaries

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 2:05 PM

Okay, I have a Guide called Comprehensive Passage Guide which has all the sections which can be driven off a passage reference. It is continually evolving as I get new resources, Logos gets additional resources tagged, or Logos adds new sections. I'll make multiple posts in this thread to explain how I fit all the pieces together.

1. I try to remember to close my CPG with all sections closed. That way it loads quickly and I can easily find the sections I wish to open without a ton of scrolling. I wish there were a collapse all option.

2. I generally give a higher level of attention to liturgy than your average Logos user because I see liturgy as the "natural environment" of Scripture ... not surprising since I also lean toward the definition of canon as "that which may be read as lessons in church services".

3. I generally give a higher level of attention to materials from the ACELO authors and presses than you average Logos user because these are the materials I am familiar enough with to not be concerned about misunderstanding the use of terms that have different meanings in different theological traditions. (ACELO = Anglican, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Oriental Orthodox).

So the first major grouping of my MPG looks like this but with the addition of the Systematic Theology and Confessional Documents by Faithlife, it may get a bit of adjustment:

Details:

A. Liturgy - Faithlife supplied

B. Ancient Literature - Faithlife supplies

C. Collection: Rabbinic Literature with collection rule based on tagging which minimizes overlap with Ancient Literature.

D. Catholic Topical Index - Verbum supplies

E. Collection: Catholic resource indices with collection rule based on tagging to select the following resources. This has been extended to include other traditions as I have obtained relevant resources. Rule: author:("Roza, Devin", "Jurgens, W. A.", "Ott, Ludwig", "Anthony of Padua", "Denzinger, Henry", "Randolph, John") OR title:("Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology of Historical Sources", "The Faith of Catholics: Confirmed by Scripture and Attested by the Fathers") with two resources excluded as irrelevant.

F. Systematic Theologies - supplied with Logos/Verbum Now

I have the Logos-supplied list of resources by theological stream as tags that I can utilize to narrow this section as needed.

G. Confessional Documents - supplied with Logos/Verbum Now

I have the Logos-supplied list of resources by theological stream as tags that I can utilize to narrow this section as needed.

H. Collection: Creeds & Confessions with a rule based on manual tagging. This is not yet updated to reflect the new Faithlife supplied section but will be modified to minimize overlap. I have available to add, if needed, collections of commentary and homiletics related to Creeds and Confessions.

 I. Collection: Catechism - Verbum supplied

J. Collection: Other Catechisms with a rule based on manual tagging. This is not yet updated to reflect the new Faithlife supplied section but will be modified to minimize overlap.

K. Collection: Church Documents - Verbum supplied

L. (in theory) Collection: Other Church Documents with a rule based on manual tagging to minimize overlap.

M. Collection: Church Fathers - Verbum supplied

N. Collection: Author: Apostolic Fathers a subset of Church fathers defined by the rule title:(Didache, "Teachings of the Twelve Apostles", "Shepherd of Hermes", "2 Clement", "Epistle of Barnabas", "Apostolic Fathers") OR author:("Clement of Rome", "Ignatius of Antioch", Papias, "Polycarp of Smyrna")

O. Collection: Author: Doctors across all ACELO Churches i.e. the sum of these rules:

Author: Doctors (Notables) of the Eastern Orthodox Church: author:=("Basil of Caesarea", "Gregory Nazianzen", "John Chrysostom", "Nicodemus the Hagiorite", "Palamas, Gregory", "Photios I of Constantinople", "Symeon the New Theologian")

Author: Doctors (Teachers of the Faith) of the Anglican Church: author:=("Ambrose of Milan",  "Anselm of Canterbury", "Athanasius of Alexandria", "Augustine of Hippo", "Basil of Caesarea", "Bernard of Clairvaux", Bonaventure, "Catherine of Siena", "Cyril of Alexandria", "Cyril of Jerusalem", "Ephrem the Syrian", "Francis de Sales", "Gregory Nazianzen", "Gregory of Nyssa", "Gregory the Great", "Hooker, Richard", "Irenaeus of Rome", Jerome, "John Chrysostom", "John Damascene", "John of the Cross","Leo the Great", Macrina, "Maurice, Frederick Denison", "Sergei of Radonezh", "Sundar Singh of India", "Taylor, Jeremy","Temple, William", "Teresa of Avila","Thomas Aquinas", "Westcott, Brooke Foss", "William of Ockham")

Author: Doctors (Vardapet) of the Armenian Church: author:=("Athanasius of Alexandria", "Basil of Caesarea", "Cyril of Alexandria", "Cyril of Jerusalem",  "David the philosopher", "Dionysius the Areopagite", "Eliseus the historiographer", "Ephrem the Syrian", "Epiphanius of Salamis", "Gregory of Narek", "Gregory Nazianzen", "Gregory of Nyssa","Hierotheus the Thesmothete",  "John Chrysostom,", Mesrob, "Moses of Chorene",  "Nerses III the builder", "Nerses of Lambron", "Sylvester I")

Author: Doctors of the Assyrian Church of the East: author:=(Eliseus, "Diodore of Tarsus", "Theodore of Mopsuestia", Nestorius)

Author: Doctors of the Chaldean Catholic Church: author:=("Alexander of Jerusalem",  "Athanasius of Alexandria", "Basil of Caesarea",  "Cyril of Alexandria", "Ephrem the Syrian", "Eustathius of Antioch", "Fravitta of Constantinople", "Gregory Nazianzen", "Gregory of Nyssa", "Isaac of Armenia", "Isaac of Ninevah", "Jacob of Nisibis", "Jacob of Serugh", "John Chrysostom,",  Maruthas, Meletius, "Polycarp of Smyrna")

Author: Doctors of the Latin Catholic Church: official: author:=("Albert the Great", "de Liguori, Alphonsus",  "Ambrose of Milan", "Anselm of Canterbury", "Anthony of Padua", "Athanasius of Alexandria", "Augustine of Hippo", "Basil of Caesarea", "Bede", "Bernard of Clairvaux", Bonaventure, "Catherine of Siena", "Cyril of Alexandria", "Cyril of Jerusalem", "Ephrem the Syrian", "Francis de Sales", "Gregory the Great", "Gregory Nazianzen", "Hilary of Poitiers", "Hildegard of Bingen", "Isidore of Seville", Jerome, "John Chrysostom", "John Damascene", "John of Ávila", "John of the Cross", "Lawrence of Brindisi", "Leo the Great", "Canisius, Peter", "Chrysologus, Peter", "Damian, Peter", "Bellarmine, Robert", "Teresa of Avila", "Therese of Lisieux", "Thomas Aquinas") ANDNOT author:(Scrivener, "G. Jerome Albrecht", "Jerome F. D. Creach", "Jerome H. Neyrey", "Jerome Quinn", "Jerome H. Smith")

Author: Doctors of the Latin Catholic Church: supplemental: author:=("Fulgentius of Cartagena", "Ildephonsus of Toledo", "Leander of Seville", "Maximus the Confessor")

Author: Doctors of the Syro Malabar Catholic Church: author:=("Ambrose of Milan",  "Athanasius of Alexandria", "Augustine of Hippo", "Basil of Caesarea", "Cyril of Alexandria", "Cyril of Jerusalem", "Ephrem the Syrian", "Epiphanius of Salamis", "Gregory the Great", "Gregory Nazianzen", "Gregory of Nyssa", "Isaac the Elder", "Jerome", "John Chrysostom", "John Damascene", "Leo the Great") ANDNOT author:("Albrecht, G. Jerome","Neyrey, Jerome", "Quinn, Jerome", "Smith, Jerome")

P. Textual Variants - Faithlife supplies

Q. Compare Version - Faithlife supplies. I try to have my Bible include the major textual traditions i.e. Masoretic, Septuagint, Peshitta, Vulgate

So this group while not focused on commentaries includes commentaries from the early church and from the influential authors of the church. Those commentaries are situated in the liturgy, theology and documents of the traditions from which the commentaries come.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 3:10 PM

Block 2 of my Comprehensive Passage Guide is the least related to your questions but for completeness and to present my approach consistently, I include it.

R. Outlines - Faithlife supplied but incomplete; I would like this to have a link to the Interactive Outline Browser.

S. Collection: Outline. This is a manually maintained list of the resources with the outlines I find most useful which are not yet encoded by Faithlife to appear in their Outline section.

T. Parallel Passages - Faithlife supplied plus some Personal Books which are included in the section by default based on resource type.

U. Cross-References - Faithlife supplied. For a long period there was a personal collection following this until Dave H., Mark B. and myself identified precisely why the Logos section was incomplete. Then I could drop my collection. But use it as a lesson that Logos will respond when you can make a compelling and precise argument.

V. Collection: Bible topics and lists. This is the sum of 3 manually maintained lists whose content would otherwise be missed in the Passage Guide. Note here there is overlap with resources in the first block - but here I am looking at them from a different perspective.

Guide collection: lists

Guide collection: topics

Guide collection: Bible: topics and lists add the following to the above 2 lists: type:"Bible Concordance", title:("The Thematic Bible") which leaves me with something like:

W.  Literary Typing - Faithlife supplied ... I want to supplement this via labels or tagging. I often have a collection for Figures of Speech added here but have currently removed it for revision.

X. Collection: Types - here I use my tagging directly rather than creating a collection. I wish Faithlife provided some of these categories as pre-defined collections in order to make it easier for novices to use their entire library. They are moving it that direction but there is some low-hanging fruit left undone. [Yes. I noticed my tagging error but did not take a corrected screen shot.]

Y. Topics - Faithlife supplied

Z. Interesting Words - Faithlife supplied

AA. Biblical Events- Faithlife supplied

AB. Biblical People- Faithlife supplied

AC. Biblical Places- Faithlife supplied

AD. Atlas- Faithlife supplied

AE, Biblical Things- Faithlife supplied

AF. Cultural Concepts- Faithlife supplied

Now a shift to the linguistic side.

AG. Grammars - Faithlife supplied

AH. Grammatical Constructions- Faithlife supplied

AI. Apparatuses- Faithlife supplied

AJ. Visualizations- Faithlife supplied

AK. Word by Word- Faithlife supplied

AL. Lemma - added in this current beta cycle

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:50 PM

Thanks for sharing this MJ. I love seeing how some of the power users have their guides set up. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 5:50 PM

The third block deals with commentaries and monographs divided into Commentaries and Collections sections. There is a great deal of overlap because I open sections selectively. This is also the area in which I should put in some effort to get my collections to be up to date - with their source or with my own purchases.

Group A:

This section includes:

  • a section for Calendar devotionals and devotionals, especially from Vyrso, which are not structured as calendar devotionals whether or not they are dated.
  • two sections of commentaries based on lectionaries - one for true commentaries, the other a collection for those not structured as commentaries
  • four sections that I extract from the Faithlife group on denominational and theological tags - I only use Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran but am considering adding Wesleyan and Restorationist

Group B:

This is my implementation of Nark Barnes' classification - I find his historical period collections especially useful.

Group C:

This is my implementation of the Morris Proctor classification. I use it primarily for examples in the forums.

Group D

This section includes several elements:

  • my implementation of my classification by methodology which only claims to be "complete" in terms of my resources at the time I did a detailed study of a particular passage
  • Sermons which in divided into the Faithlife supplied section and a collection for everything not yet coded as sermons whether my Logos or by myself. Faithlife still needs to put some serious effort into coding ancient and medieval sermons. There is a third section for resources from which to build sermons. The whole handling of sermons needs adjustments to handle liturgical dates more explicitly for me to be happy.
  • the beta has a Personal Letters section which I would add after Sermons
  • Journals as supplied by Faithlife. I no longer need a collection of uncoded journals.
  • Courses as supplied by Faithlife

I spend much of my commentary time in denominational or methodological collections because I tend to read looking for the answer to a particular question rather than looking at everything said about the passage.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 6:20 PM

The final block differs between Logos and Verbum and is a source of annoyance at data lost sync across the two applications.

This section represents for me the "end product" of Bible study that is not simply for personal faith formation/spiritual growth i.e. it is oriented towards Bible studies, sermons, presentations, worship planning ...

  • My Content is supplied by Faithlife ... I wish the Sentence Diagrams could be placed near Visualizations above. that Passage Lists could be placed near the Lists section in the first block ... but there are no such controls.
  • Handout is supplied by Faithlife ... I join with those who don't want this feature forgotten
  • Bible study guides which I divide into 4 groups: Catholic, those tied to the Revised Common Lectionary, those tied to the International Standard Sunday School Lessons, and everything else
  • Music is supplied by Faithlife; I supplement that with a collection of hymn texts (manually tagged) ... Bob has hinted over the last two or three years that he intends to expand the functionality here so I am in waiting mode rather than adding labels to improve the quality of the results
  • Media Resources is supplied by Faithlife
  • Media Collections is supplied by Faithlife
  • Theme is supplied by Faithlife
  • Thematic Outlines is supplied by Faithlife
  • GracewayMedia.com; SermonAudio.com; SermonCentral.com; Sermons.Logos.com would appear here but they are stripped when I open in Verbum although I added them in Logos. I find this very annoying but haven't convinced anyone that it is a serious bug.

I do maintain a collection that is my entire library with all resources that would appear in the CPG removed ... I check the remainder to verify that I'm succeeding at putting the maximum possible portion of my library at my fingertips.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 928
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2015 7:04 PM

I regret that my request resulted in you having to spend so much time and effort responding, but I am extremely grateful that you did. I stand in awe of what you have put together, and I have no doubt that many on the forums will benefit from it. You have truly assembled something great that showcases how powerful Bible software can be. Thank you for sharing!

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