Hillary Clinton on the Home page of Logos

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This post has 104 Replies | 7 Followers

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 8:22 PM

MJ. Smith:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're removing Faithlife News from the Logos desktop homepage.

This is unfortunate. I would have preferred that you expand the service adding in many of the denominational news sites so that the news was more explicitly something one would not find in your normal news sources -- and more explicitly something that one selected the channels relevant to you. I also want a similar channel for the Verbum/liturgical users. Again (remember Dracula?) you are pandering to a radical minority which is not the side of Faithlife I want any association with.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
 Unfortunately, that affects only what you see at the website, not the feed that shows up in the software on the homepage.

This however is a major shortcoming. Fixing this is a far better solution than the one you have chosen.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
The homepage should be focused on helping you get into Bible study, and Faithlife News doesn't fit that objective.

This represents a very specific hermeneutic that is not shared by a significant group of your users many of whom have a more social and less individualistic understanding than you original core audience. This, like your over emphasis on language and grammar, betrays your theological roots and make the broader Christian community uncomfortable.

Expanding the service takes time and money. If that's what the community wants, I'd encourage you to create a UserVoice request and invite others to vote for it.

We've had multiple complaints from various ends of the politician and religious spectrum, so this isn't us bending to a particular vocal minority. It's a matter of us using our limited resources in a way that serves the broader community.

In addition to the complaints about some of the content from multiple users and the confusion about what Faithlife News even is, the service stopped updating 10 days ago. And the developer who worked on it is no longer with Faithlife.

We're looking into what it would take to get the service working again, audit the news sources to ensure we're delivering quality news, and add support for a user-customized feed into the desktop homepage. But all of these are pretty low on our priority list given our current resources and other priorities.

The combination of these things makes pulling it from the homepage the right call. If you'd like to see it come back, UserVoice is the best way to tell us. Something tells me there are a hundred things you'd rather have than this. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 8:26 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Something tells me there are a hundred things you'd rather have than this

And that "something telling you" has a name called Uservoice. :-) 

I'd rather have Topics in the Systematic Theologies Interactive than probably anything else there is, but that's just me

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 2580
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 8:31 PM

Agreed. There are a zillion features that are more important than Faithlife News. I'm not gonna waste any votes on it.

If you want an RSS aggregator, have a look at Feedly.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 8:34 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're evaluating what to do with it and how important fixing it is relative to other priorities. It's currently pretty low on the list. If you'd like to advocate for it, I'd encourage you to request it via UserVoice.

So now we are prioritizing bugs not just enhancements?  When was this policy change announced?

And removal of features on < 24 hours notice ... why am I feeling less than warm and fuzz re: Faithlife?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 8:41 PM

MJ. Smith:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're evaluating what to do with it and how important fixing it is relative to other priorities. It's currently pretty low on the list. If you'd like to advocate for it, I'd encourage you to request it via UserVoice.

So now we are prioritizing bugs not just enhancements?  When was this policy change announced?

Feeds come and go on the Home page.  They aren't advertised features of Logos.  A broken feed isn't a bug in Logos, or a loss of a paid-for function.

Besides, I don't think removing a function that is half-baked is a bad move.  They did it with handouts.  If they don't have the manpower to support it, removing it is better than leaving it broken. 

I can see how some would miss it, though.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 1886
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 9:09 PM

MJ. Smith:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're evaluating what to do with it and how important fixing it is relative to other priorities. It's currently pretty low on the list. If you'd like to advocate for it, I'd encourage you to request it via UserVoice.

So now we are prioritizing bugs not just enhancements?  When was this policy change announced?

And removal of features on < 24 hours notice ... why am I feeling less than warm and fuzz re: Faithlife?

I'm not asking you to do our work for us. We have bug triaging processing in place. I'm inviting you to show us we have our priorities wrong. From my perspective this is a low-priority bug compared to many other issues, many of which you've asked us to address. If you want to influence our perception of its importance, you have that opportunity via UserVoice.

It was bad user experience, and we don't know when we'll be able to address it. Leaving the broken experience would have been a mistake. I've personally spent multiple hours on this issue, and I know several other people have as well. I'd guess combined we've spend ~10 hours of company time on this. Leaving it up would have led to more time spent addressing questions regarding why this article or that article is showing on the homepage, why it hasn't updated in days, etc. Pulling it, and doing so quickly, meant allow us to focus on more important issues. The decision was an easy one.

I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of communicating all of the reasons more clearly up front.

Posts 29138
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 9:11 PM

Todd Phillips:
They did it with handouts.

Handouts are still in the system  - working but deprecated i.e. not new features.

Todd Phillips:
Feeds come and go on the Home page.

I can't think of any that have been withdrawn. There are blogs that have not been updated for some time but can you name some that have been withdrawn?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 29138
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 9:47 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of communicating all of the reasons more clearly up front.

If you had posted in the either thread complaining that the page was no longer working with an apology that deploying X had broken the feature, that the time required to fix the feature was significant so that as a stop gap measure you were disabling the feature, you would have gotten a very different response. Instead:

  • by not acknowledging the original thread on a timely basis you left the impression that (a) Faithlife does not have even basic operational awareness of its web features and (b) that it is slow to acknowledge bug reports including missing some until there are repeat reports.
  • that Faithlife was responding to a user complaint of content with ill-advised capitulation
  • as a Faithlife purchaser, I expect the following priority for bugs ... the same as I expect for all software I purchase
    • those that crash or return garbage ... highest priority ASAP fixes
    • those that simply fail to work
    • those that require one take extra steps to work
    • those that are cosmetic only
  • if a software department is well run, I should never hear about the programmer who left ... or at most I would hear that it will take an extra day or two for a new programmer to become familiar with the function

I accept you explanation and as a Verbum user I've never had access the the feed on my homepage ... only during some betas when I switch to Logos for my stable application. But accepting the explanation does not undo the implied revelation on the inner working of Faithlife ... and those insights are not flattering.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2268
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 10:56 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

MJ. Smith:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're evaluating what to do with it and how important fixing it is relative to other priorities. It's currently pretty low on the list. If you'd like to advocate for it, I'd encourage you to request it via UserVoice.

So now we are prioritizing bugs not just enhancements?  When was this policy change announced?

And removal of features on < 24 hours notice ... why am I feeling less than warm and fuzz re: Faithlife?

I'm not asking you to do our work for us. We have bug triaging processing in place. I'm inviting you to show us we have our priorities wrong. From my perspective this is a low-priority bug compared to many other issues, many of which you've asked us to address. If you want to influence our perception of its importance, you have that opportunity via UserVoice.

It was bad user experience, and we don't know when we'll be able to address it. Leaving the broken experience would have been a mistake. I've personally spent multiple hours on this issue, and I know several other people have as well. I'd guess combined we've spend ~10 hours of company time on this. Leaving it up would have led to more time spent addressing questions regarding why this article or that article is showing on the homepage, why it hasn't updated in days, etc. Pulling it, and doing so quickly, meant allow us to focus on more important issues. The decision was an easy one.

I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of communicating all of the reasons more clearly up front.

That makes sense and really helps.  Thanks.

Posts 68
Diego Lara | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 11:01 PM

Why do you always sound so angry on your posts? I remember when I was new to Logos I asked a simple questions concerning exporting books and you replied with a very condescending answering as if i was trying to do something illegal. Based on the amount of posts you have on your post count you probably think you are part owner of Logos by now. 

MJ. Smith:

Dennis Edward Bean:
I thought Faithlife news was news about Faithlife and their products. I never knew there was a way to select channels or that channels even existed.

That's why I highly recommend that people ask in the forums first before making suggestions or registering complaints.

Posts 29138
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 11:19 PM

Diego Lara:
Why do you always sound so angry on your posts?

There are times that I am angry ... as in this thread ... so I deliberate sound angry because that is part of the message I wish to convey. I have no patience for people who wish to censor my access to information. As for the "always" that is very hard to explain or even believe as most of my posts are simply factual with little or no emotional language.

MJ Smith:
That's why I highly recommend that people ask in the forums first before making suggestions or registering complaints.

I recommend this because of the number of people who get very frustrated and make suggestions for features that are readily available if they would only ask. If they ask in the correct forum they will get a useful answer much faster than when they post in the suggestions forum. I do not recommend that people search the forums before asking questions because, even though we answer the same question several times in a short period of time, the titling and the search function is such that it is unreasonable to expect users to find that the question has been asked and replied to in the recent past.

Diego Lara:
Based on the amount of posts you have on your post count you probably think you are part owner of Logos by now. 
Several people have higher counts than I ... and they done it without TIP's of the day ... they've answered actual questions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 1:33 AM

MJ. Smith:
Diego Lara:
Based on the amount of posts you have on your post count you probably think you are part owner of Logos by now. 
Several people have higher counts than I ... and they done it without TIP's of the day ... they've answered actual questions.

Only alabama24 has more volunteer posts (who has helped many while expanding his technical skills)

Currently # 2 in volunteer posts is MJ. Smith (whose Tips, Bugs, Reading Lists, ... are appreciated)

The third MVP with over 20,000 volunteer posts is Dave Hooton (whose technical assistance is very helpful)

Rosie Perera has 18,044 volunteer posts (who has helped a lot along with forum presence being missed)

Graham Criddle has 16,159 volunteer posts (who is a rising helpful star to round out the top five).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 10737
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 4:32 AM

MJ. Smith:
I have no patience for people who wish to censor my access to information.

I'm confused. How has removing the FL newsfeed censored your access to information? Did you also lose access to other news sources? You are greatly exaggerating the loss here.

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 5:35 AM

MJ. Smith:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of communicating all of the reasons more clearly up front.

 But accepting the explanation does not undo the implied revelation on the inner working of Faithlife ... and those insights are not flattering.

This is an honestly straight forward question (to anyone who knows the answer).

This is something that baffles me, and I've seen it ever since I've been on these boards, and now with this it seems a good time to ask.

I have NEVER before known of a software company that interacts so much with its customers, requests feed backs, apologizes for mistakes, etc.  I don't see where FL is REQUIRED to advise us when they change policies (as mentioned in a previous post), tell us when someone leaves their job, or discuss any of the inner workings of their company.  Their job, as I understand it, it to provide software and make sure it works, and they don't need my approval to change features, prioritize bugs, etc., etc.  My question is...am I wrong in my understanding, and if so, where am I wrong? 

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 10974
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 5:44 AM

First, I don't use newsfeed ... I'm off-line, and happily Logos finally caved and let users go with a blank homepage ... in their UI-minds, users MUST have 'something' ... vs let users decide.

But this issue illustrates some curiousities:

- Why was the newsfeed added? It wasn't in L4. And given the idea, why half-programmed?  It sounds like an exec had a neato idea.  I pose the question, because, in theory feeds could be very useful for larger churches, and seminaries. Relgious news, the promoted one.

- Why is a feature being advertised the reason for not dumping a feature?  Advertising has to concentrate a target view, not list the kitchen sink.

- Why did Phil feel emboldened to dump a buggy feature right in the middle of an obvious customer discussion? That one is most curious. For some to shrug is fine (me), but is the platform so loosey-goosey, nothing is a dependable feature?

- Finally, playing like this is a neutral issue is dishonest ... it began with Hillary, which some denominations are not all that uncomfortable with. But Phil jumped quickly ... 10 hours?? He jumped for a reason.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 142
Stephen Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 5:46 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

This is an honestly straight forward question (to anyone who knows the answer).

This is something that baffles me, and I've seen it ever since I've been on these boards, and now with this it seems a good time to ask.

I have NEVER before known of a software company that interacts so much with its customers, requests feed backs, apologizes for mistakes, etc.  I don't see where FL is REQUIRED to advise us when they change policies (as mentioned in a previous post), tell us when someone leaves their job, or discuss any of the inner workings of their company.  Their job, as I understand it, it to provide software and make sure it works, and they don't need my approval to change features, prioritize bugs, etc., etc.  My question is...am I wrong in my understanding, and if so, where am I wrong? 

I know a couple of game companies that interact with users on their forums but not to the level that we have with FL.  Most companies steer clear of doing so because of the negative flame wars that can ignite when some users realize they have the companies ear.  My experience here is that it seems everyone who participates in the forums are rather civil.  Even the storm of fear and uncertainty that was caused by the introduction of Logos Now was filled with people respectively complaining or voicing their fears and opinions.  At least it was civil compared to what you would see elsewhere.

Posts 2268
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 6:44 AM

Posts 10974
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 7:22 AM

Gao ... the pipe image is inaccurate ... the smoke gets in your eyes. Normally, the pipe would be unlit.

But more seriously, and ignoring a Logos forum and Logos chitchat, your Logos software updates automatically ... enjoy! Mine doesn't, unless I want. Good luck.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2016 12:42 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Nathan Parker:

Is Faithlife News still functioning correctly? I've noticed the RSS feed hasn't been updating for me.

No. It stopped updating 10 days ago. We're looking into it.

Nathan Parker:

Just wondering if this feature is even sticking around or getting pulled completely.

We're evaluating what to do with it and how important fixing it is relative to other priorities. It's currently pretty low on the list. If you'd like to advocate for it, I'd encourage you to request it via UserVoice.

It's an interesting concept I've enjoyed, but if maintaining it is taking more focus away from other priorities at Faithlife, then I would be OK if it were sunset. While I like the idea of one-shop Christian news, I already subscribe to Christian news feeds through other sources like an RSS reader, and I don't see how Faithlife News is bringing people into the Faithlife ecosystem, improving their Bible study, and from a business standpoint, how its improving Faithlife's bottom line.

If it's something you can continue running with and not involve a ton of effort into it, great, as it is "nice". If it becomes too much to handle, I'll be OK if it's gone.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 2268
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 21 2016 1:42 AM

One last observation, and I am not suggesting anything about anyone in any way, or FL or politics or anything at all--this is pure science with equal respect for one and all--but when I search the forums for "donkey," guess what the first hit is?  (Note this occurred long before my post) Having to do with some represented party perhaps. Or, why?  Doesn't matter.  Just an amusing observation.  All done.   

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