Home Page

Page 5 of 9 (165 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last »
This post has 164 Replies | 10 Followers

Posts 3062
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:51 AM

Graham Owen:

David Taylor Jr:
To be fair, early adopter is my term, not Faithlife's.

Sadly for Faithlife "Early Adopter" is actually a fair description of Monday's release whether it's their term or not.

Not sure why you say sadly, this would be the same no matter what company is putting out the software. Apple, Microsoft, Faithlife, Accordance, etc.  There are always unanticipated bugs/kinks/quirks/etc with the initial release.  If someone does not want to deal with these they should never purchase on day one and wait for those things to be worked out over the first few weeks.

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

Posts 987
Richard Wardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:54 AM

Graham Owen:
Whether people accept it or not the Logos 8 release has not been well managed, marketing communications have created the picture of a great "next level" product ready to help you dig deeper into God's Word.

That's a shame, because I feel the exact opposite! The Workflow feature alone is already helping me dig deeper into God's Word, and I'm one of those long-term users. It's pointing me to tools and features that I wouldn't normally go near. 

I think this release has been one of the best, with some great new base packages. The addition of a MobileEd course was a great surprise and a stroke of genius. 

I'm looking forward to seeing even more improvements. A product is never finished these days, and I love that Faithlife are always working to make a great thing even greater. 

Posts 494
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:56 AM

David Taylor Jr:
If someone does not want to deal with these they should never purchase on day one and wait for those things to be worked out over the first few weeks.

Several of my friends refuse to get iPhones or update OS soon for this reason. They want to wait to see how many phones get bricked, security leaks, bugs, etc.  They have solid wait times to see the fallout first. 

No matter how good the development team, once your product hits the wild, there's no telling what people will find until... well... they find it. I still remember people "holding their iPhones wrong" during the iPhone antennae-gate debacle. Whodathought?

MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro

Posts 494
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:04 AM

Richard Wardman:

I feel the exact opposite! The Workflow feature alone is already helping me dig deeper into God's Word, and I'm one of those long-term users. It's pointing me to tools and features that I wouldn't normally go near. 

I think this release has been one of the best, with some great new base packages. The addition of a MobileEd course was a great surprise and a stroke of genius. 

👍🏽 Knowing that I can create a Workflow for my congregation, discipleship group, etc. and share it with them as we study a passage or look to help my team prepare talks/groups discussion/etc is pretty cool. It's been a big need.

Before, it would be like buying all the tools you need to build a house, but then discovering "Oh, I don't KNOW HOW TO build a house! The tools must be broken!" Workflow is like the step-by-step instruction guide on how to build said house. (An aisde thought, maybe we need to teach our congregations HOW to study the word better, but alas...)

The "Pick-Your-Mobile-Ed" idea IS genius! Win-Win for logos and us. It's a tiny baby-step towards what some wanted in a "customizable base package."

MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:05 AM

Richard Villanueva:

David Taylor Jr:
If someone does not want to deal with these they should never purchase on day one and wait for those things to be worked out over the first few weeks.

Several of my friends refuse to get iPhones or update OS soon for this reason. They want to wait to see how many phones get bricked, security leaks, bugs, etc.  They have solid wait times to see the fallout first. 

No matter how good the development team, once your product hits the wild, there's no telling what people will find until... well... they find it. I still remember people "holding their iPhones wrong" during the iPhone antennae-gate debacle. Whodathought?

All of this may be true but the point that keeps being over looked is Logos' total disregard for their existing users in their communications.

We are on day 3, some users are struggling with the changes, there is still no documentation to help, the help system is planned for a future update, all we have is some videos which are as much marketing as they are training. And the sad reality is that I would never in a million years have thought to look at the Library video to learn how to change the Preferred Bible.

One output from a Beta Program should be Known Issues and Changes in Behaviour, its not much to ask but I have a very low expectation of ever seeing one. When you hit a problem and someone on a Forums says that its a know issue, IMHO asking why no one told you is a fair question. 

Posts 17990
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:20 AM

Graham Owen:
... there is still no documentation to help

Logos Wiki => https://wiki.logos.com/ includes many links to the new Help Center provided by Faithlife that has many videos and articles.

Logos 8 Help Center – Training & Support

Help Center is also available in other languages:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:23 AM

David Taylor Jr:
Not sure why you say sadly,

Because I was there when 3 became 4 and people promised that the lessons had been learnt.

That upgrade was painful and like this one a lot of the problem was down to poor communications like this one.

There were know issues that have had a known impact on existing users these could and should have been communicated. Well at least that is my opinion.

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:33 AM

Graham Owen:
That upgrade was painful and like this one a lot of the problem was down to poor communications like this one.

I now you're disappointed that some L7 features are no longer the same in L8, but the difference between the L4 launch and this one is night and day.

Posts 1864
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 10:52 AM

Richard Wardman:
The Workflow feature alone is already helping me dig deeper into God's Word, and I'm one of those long-term users. It's pointing me to tools and features that I wouldn't normally go near. 

YesYes I'm integrating the "Expository Sermon Preparation" Workflow into my sermon prep this week and have found the simple one-click access to things like the "Compare Pericope" and "Compare Bible Versions" has led me to observations that I would normally miss. I was aware of these features but don't consistently refer to them in my sermon prep. the Workflow is helping me to produce a richer exposition.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 11:06 AM

Mark Barnes:

Graham Owen:
That upgrade was painful and like this one a lot of the problem was down to poor communications like this one.

I now you're disappointed that some L7 features are no longer the same in L8, but the difference between the L4 launch and this one is night and day.

I would agree with that in terms of the technology Mark

I'm confident that the third iteration of Logos 8 will be a lot better than the third iteration of Logos 4 was in terms of technical innovation I think Faithlife are doing well.

The fact that Notes is a big issue for some users is actually amusing given the situation with Notes moving from 3 to 4 and the official Logos position on notes back then i.e. they were not supported.

But the communications and company approach is very much back to the dark days.

So you end up with the challenge of liking/wanting the software but really not wanting to have to deal with the company.

After 6, which I think is the last release I beta tested, I actually thought that things were OK. I was tired of the "fan boy" versus "suffering user" nature of the forum so I basically became one of the unheard, unseen, users and that's worked for me because I enjoy Bible Study and Logos is a great tool for doing that. (Before anyone gets offended I used "fan boy" here to express the hostile, them vs us nature of the Forum 4 years ago rather than anything related to my experience here since Monday).

Having read up about Notes, and watched Logos auto update, I went to do my Bible reading for the day, a simple task you'd think but no, my preferred layout is closed and a new random one opens. Given that each year my daily Bible reading is a different translation my layout has this version linked to by preferred NASB95, long story short I scratch my head, open my layout, open the Reading Plan Document and complete my reading.

For the UI the biggest change that I noticed was stuff I thought was top left of a panel was now top right, looks OK, just seems a bit pointless.

Next thing I do is open the Library, can't remember which author I was looking for but I noticed the behaviour was not what I expected so used <Alt> <Tab> to switch to my open Library Window, not the end of the world but it took me a while to stop clicking on the Library Icon and use <Alt> <Tab>.

Came to the Forums and quite quickly figured out who some of the Beta Testers were, they were the ones responding "known issue" or "future update" to mine and other similar queries. Right back to the 3 becomes 4 fiasco except these days everyone wants you to watch a video that is part help and a lot marketing.

To be honest I'm really fed up with the whole thing, just need to remind myself, great software, poor company/communications and keep away from the forums.

And yes I know that, now I have figured out how to do the things that are part of my current routine there are some great new tools in Logos 8 that I'll be able to use to do what I enjoy, Study the Bible.

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 11:28 AM

Graham Owen:
But the communications and company approach is very much back to the dark days.

To be fair, this time an email went out about a week before L8 explaining that there were big changes coming to Notes, and giving documentation for how users could prepare for that.

Graham Owen:
I went to do my Bible reading for the day, a simple task you'd think but no, my preferred layout is closed and a new random one opens. Given that each year my daily Bible reading is a different translation my layout has this version linked to by preferred NASB95, long story short I scratch my head, open my layout, open the Reading Plan Document and complete my reading.

I agree that is annoying. I too prefer the L7 way of opening reading plans.

Graham Owen:
For the UI the biggest change that I noticed was stuff I thought was top left of a panel was now top right, looks OK, just seems a bit pointless.

The change has been made because of the new left-hand panel which gives access to TOC, and Notes & Highlights, and adds consistency with the left-hand panels in other places (e.g. Library, Documents menu).

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 11:50 AM

Mark Barnes:

Graham Owen:
But the communications and company approach is very much back to the dark days.

To be fair, this time an email went out about a week before L8 explaining that there were big changes coming to Notes, and giving documentation for how users could prepare for that.

Read that, took the risk, that's why I'm not complaining about Notes. (Do think the by verse sort order issue is a bit dumb though).

The warning should have covered some other known issues as well IMHO, my library is around 15,000 resources, small compared to some but it cost me a lot more than I'm prepared to pay for a brand new car. That level of commitment deserves more again IMHO.

How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Mark Barnes:
The change has been made because of the new left-hand panel which gives access to TOC, and Notes & Highlights, and adds consistency with the left-hand panels in other places (e.g. Library, Documents menu).

That's the first time someone has offered me a sensible explanation.

Posts 22
T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:45 PM

Graham Owen:
How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Have you tried simply replacing the Home Page Bible Reading Plan Layout with your old, preferred layout? Granted the default should have been this anyhow; the communications could have been better. But it really took me all of 5 seconds to set it how I wanted it.

TGC

In His Service,

TGC

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:53 PM

T Gerold Castle:

Graham Owen:
How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Have you tried simply replacing the Home Page Bible Reading Plan Layout with your old, preferred layout? Granted the default should have been this anyhow; the communications could have been better. But it really took me all of 5 seconds to set it how I wanted it.

TGC

Does that really work? 

OK so that implies there is some logic behind the change in behaviour 

Will definitely explore the possibilities. 

Posts 22
T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:06 PM

You can assign whichever layout you want to the Bible Reading Plan Layout.

In His Service,

TGC

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:19 PM

Graham Owen:

T Gerold Castle:

Graham Owen:
How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Have you tried simply replacing the Home Page Bible Reading Plan Layout with your old, preferred layout? Granted the default should have been this anyhow; the communications could have been better. But it really took me all of 5 seconds to set it how I wanted it.

TGC

Does that really work? 

It works in that you can then specify what you want the layout to look like. But it doesn't stop Logos closing your existing layout.

When I click on a Reading Plan, I just want to open the single resource — without closing any other resources I have open. That's not possible, even with custom layouts, and that's what I would like to see the Home Page card allow me to do.

Posts 22
T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:27 PM

Ahh... I understand what you guys are asking for. Guess I just don't use the reading plan functionality in that way. I use it, well, to read. I do have a notes pane open for any questions that may arise as I'm reading. And that was simple enough to set up.

I don't use it in conjunction with any other workflows.

Sorry I misunderstood.

TGC

In His Service,

TGC

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:43 PM

T Gerold Castle:

Graham Owen:
How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Have you tried simply replacing the Home Page Bible Reading Plan Layout with your old, preferred layout? Granted the default should have been this anyhow; the communications could have been better. But it really took me all of 5 seconds to set it how I wanted it.

TGC

This does open up some interesting possibilities and offers some insight to the thinking behind the change of behaviour in the new design. Comparing the actions of the default page with one that I create there must be some special attributes to enable some panels in the layout the be dynamically changed on open because the default layout opens the right book for any Reading Plan while any layout I create only opens the resources I have pre-allocated. I would still like to see the old behaviour restored but if the required information is published this new behaviour has some potential especially if there was a way to link a layout to a reading plan.

Maybe the help when we finally get it will provide the missing details.

Thanks for this but for now having the reading plan document open wins.

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:46 PM

Mark Barnes:

Graham Owen:

T Gerold Castle:

Graham Owen:
How did anyone think the reading plan behaviour make sense?

Have you tried simply replacing the Home Page Bible Reading Plan Layout with your old, preferred layout? Granted the default should have been this anyhow; the communications could have been better. But it really took me all of 5 seconds to set it how I wanted it.

TGC

Does that really work? 

It works in that you can then specify what you want the layout to look like. But it doesn't stop Logos closing your existing layout.

When I click on a Reading Plan, I just want to open the single resource — without closing any other resources I have open. That's not possible, even with custom layouts, and that's what I would like to see the Home Page card allow me to do.

So it sounds like no grand plan was outlined during the Beta.

Mark you don't have to answer that.

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 3:08 PM

Graham Owen:
So it sounds like no grand plan was outlined during the Beta.

Despite what Doc seems to think, beta testers aren't "yes men". We were very enthusiastic about some changes, and very unenthusiastic about others. This particular issue of Reading Plan layouts is one that was raised by several beta testers, and some felt very strongly that the old method was better.

Not all our comments were responded to (we made thousands, FL couldn't respond to them all), and I'm afraid I can't find a FL response to the comments made during beta about Reading Plan layouts.

Page 5 of 9 (165 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last » | RSS