Logos for Windows Phone

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This post has 34 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 10:00 AM

Graham Criddle:

alabama24:

Matt Hudson:
It absolutely kills me that I have to try to go to biblia.com to even read a book that I own in Logos.

There already is a simple app in the Windows store.

But not one which can run on a Windows phone 

And it should be added that the simple app in the Windows store is no longer being actively updated per Ed Ball's post in this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/79889.aspx

That was a rather disappointing development for me since I would like to use the Windows store app on my Venue 8 Pro during church service and the full desktop app for study. As it stands now, I'm relegated to using Olive Tree during church service since the Windows store app is not up to par.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 10:21 AM

Logos feels like a massive company. They have so many great resources and many projects. But in the grand scheme Logos is a small company. They do great things but as I understand it are short staffed already on programers, and are very judicious with their time in devoting to new projects. The sad fact of the matter is Windows Phone 8 market share is going down not up. http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp (it appears even more dismal when you look at over all mobile OS usage http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1) MS also did themselves no favours by making it hard to develop. In the Android and iOS worlds you make an app for the one it works on both. Logos did make a windows 8RT app, but as I had heard it is not easily transferable down to the windows 8 phone. MS unfortunately has not been successful in small consumer electronics. It would not surprise me to see Phone and RT disappear in a year or two.

-Dan

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 10:42 AM

Dan Francis:

Logos feels like a massive company. They have so many great resources and many projects. But in the grand scheme Logos is a small company. They do great things but as I understand it are short staffed already on programers, and are very judicious with their time in devoting to new projects. The sad fact of the matter is Windows Phone 8 market share is going down not up. http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp (it appears even more dismal when you look at over all mobile OS usage http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1) MS also did themselves no favours by making it hard to develop. In the Android and iOS worlds you make an app for the one it works on both. Logos did make a windows 8RT app, but as I had heard it is not easily transferable down to the windows 8 phone. MS unfortunately has not been successful in small consumer electronics. It would not surprise me to see Phone and RT disappear in a year or two.

-Dan

Regardless of the future of Windows Phone, a solid Metro app on Windows 8.1 would be very helpful for those who own a tablet running full Windows. It may seen redundant to have both, but there is certainly a current need for both in today's small tablets.  Perhaps Logos 6 will address the issue by incorporating better touch support and tablet interface features.   

Posts 4768
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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 11:30 AM

Erik:
Perhaps Logos 6 will address the issue by incorporating better touch support and tablet interface features. 

Just a guess, but it makes sense to me that better touch support is likely something we will see in future releases of Logos desktop apps. I continue to believe the current market share and market share trends do not support making an investment of time and resources in a WP app. Just MHO.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 12:00 PM

Erik:
Regardless of the future of Windows Phone, a solid Metro app on Windows 8.1 would be very helpful for those who own a tablet running full Windows. It may seen redundant to have both, but there is certainly a current need for both in today's small tablets.  Perhaps Logos 6 will address the issue by incorporating better touch support and tablet interface features.   

This is undoubtedly an important thing.and i do hope you get a touch friendly version of Logos soon. Windows tablets are not going anywhere and more and more desktops in the windows world will most likely move to touch screens more. You very well may be right in needing to wait till Logos 6 for that one. But stranger things have happened for all we know Logos 5.5 may have a switch on the tool bar to turn on and off a touch interface. Only the developers know Tongue Tied

-Dan

Posts 521
Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 3 2014 4:58 PM

Everyone is so quick to mark MS out of the mobile market -- I'll believe it when I see it. I understand the problems with developing for RT, but I don't think Phone is going to be gone anytime soon. In fact, it's just going to take a couple of folks realizing how google uses the data off Andriod phones for a lot of people to dump it really fast.

Russ

Posts 28
Matt Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 4 2014 3:58 AM

alabama24:
There already is a simple app in the Windows store.

Nope. They don't. Not for phones. That's the RT/Tablet reader app (which is an absolute nightmare to use).

alabama24:
 A couple of thoughts: Yes, OSX is a "small" user base... but it is one which spends a considerable amount of money on "tech." Second, Macs have a much stronger hold on college students (including seminary). In other words, the potential market for Logos is considerably higher than the 6.7% you quoted.

I think I understand your point. But, that's largely an American, upper-class phenomenon, not a global market trend.

alabama24:
 If it were already "real easy," Logos would have done it. If it becomes "real easy," Logos will do it. If the market can justify it, Logos will do it.

Side note: If I weren't a Mac / iOS user, I would be inclined to give a Nokia Windows phone a glance... It seems to be a good phone and i would be more inclined to go that route than an Android phone.

You probably won't have time, but you could search for MS's last developer conference video. They showed companies porting graphically complex builds in less than a single week using migration software keyed specifically to apps built for iOS & Android. At least to me, it appears that the difficulty isn't in the build process but in the decision to do it.

You ought to come on over! Lumias are AMAZING phones. Far better hardware and OS than Apple or Google. But, alas, it's all about the apps isn't it. 

Posts 28
Matt Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 4 2014 4:31 AM

I think the latest IDC reports are admittedly a bit troubling. But, they are not troubling in a "burning platform" way. It's my guess that there will actually be a modest uptick again later this year. There have been 4 new WP devices released in the past 2 weeks.

But, even if there were no immediate upturn, MS has shown extraordinary commitment to be a mobile device maker and to stay in the market. And, as they showed with pouring literally BILLIONS of dollars into the XBOX to compete against the then powers of Playstation and Wii, when they decide to stick to a path, they can be really persistent.

Every indication is that MS are sticking with making amazing phones with a great experience! I would just love to hear that after several years of the platform maturing, and the dev process getting cleaner and cleaner, that Logos is willing to provide a robust app for its users who prefer the Windows Phone platform.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 4 2014 4:34 AM

Matt Hudson:
When Apple is STILL such a small percentage of the desktop environment (OS X has a 6.7% global usage rate in 2014), but Logos developed the ENTIRE desktop app for their OS, it seems like the "percentage of market" argument isn't one that is uniformly decisive. In fact, I'd wager the user base was even smaller when Logos made the decision. Small user bases can be worth it.

Logos isn't interested in the percentage of market. They're interested in the percentage of their actual or potential users. Especially paying users. And that figure is bound to be much higher than the global usage rate for OS X. (Remember that the PC share is 'artificially' kept up by a huge number of people who use old PC's because that's all they can afford. Those people aren't exactly going to buy Logos.)

From a 2014 post that doesn't seem to exist any more:

Bob Pritchett:
"Logos was late to the Mac market, and we only went there when our users went there. (Not one user, or two users, but enough users that we could cover the development costs.)"

Bob Pritchett:
"Windows Phone [does] not yet have enough market share to justify this investment"

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 4 2014 9:55 AM

Matt Hudson:
Every indication is that MS are sticking with making amazing phones with a great experience! I would just love to hear that after several years of the platform maturing, and the dev process getting cleaner and cleaner, that Logos is willing to provide a robust app for its users who prefer the Windows Phone platform.

Yes I believe windows will maintain a phone presence. Windows has virtually no continuity. I had a windows 6 phone believing it to be superior to the design of the iPhone. It was as expensive as getting an iPhone but it had a slide out keypad, which for some reason i thought was important. I ends up virtual never using the keyboard. It frustrating me that the apps were poorly designed and the kick in the face that sent me to iPhone was the announcement Windows Phone 7 needs all new APPS will not be supported on any existing hardware. Now I know if you have an iPhone 1 generation you can not use current  iOS or the latest APPS requiring more power, but you are not left in the dark generation to generation. Windows phone 8 apps are compatible with 7 or at leas 7.5 i know but again when 8 was announced i read no hardware will be upgradable to 8, not even the new flagship Windows Phone 7 they launched that very day of the announcement. Now people may have hacked an upgrade but I am not sure and I am in no way sure that Windows phone 9 or 10 will in no way be even compatible with 8 software simply because of the way they handled things in the past few years. And the X box is a prime example I know of people who refused to think about getting the new xbox because for the first time all your previous games were not playable on the new x box one. MS has long been criticized over it;s backward compatibility in desktop OS but that has been the reason the MS succeeded in OS... I still need to run Y i can; I can upgrade to X2000 without needing to buy a new system great (a new system will run it much better but still it can be done on my 2 year old system). Microsoft fool me once shame on you... fool me twice shame on me. I have seen the ethos  of MS and it is not for me. I am not saying Apple's ethos is ideal but for me it is far better.

-Dan

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 25 2014 1:57 PM

Matt Hudson:
You ought to come on over! Lumias are AMAZING phones. Far better hardware and OS than Apple or Google. But, alas, it's all about the apps isn't it. 

Which is what this thread is all about! Smile

Posts 521
Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 27 2014 6:01 AM

An interesting question -- I wonder how many people are _not_ buying Windows phones because some apps, such as Logos, aren't available on the platform? In other words, how much of the low numbers around the Windows phone platform is being caused by app developers saying, "well, Windows phone has such a small market share?" In other words, how much of this is a self fulfilling prophecy? 

Second question -- in absolute terms, how many Windows phones have been sold in the last year or two?

Third -- what is Logos' commitment to abandoning Andriod if Nvidia wins its patent suit and forces most Samsung devices to stop shipping? If there's a set policy on percentage of market share, what is it, when it is triggered, etc.? 

The IT industry is mostly a circus driven by hype, unfortunately. It's sad to see Logos get trapped in that hype on such a regular basis.

Posts 4768
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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 27 2014 8:31 AM

Russ White:
I wonder how many people are _not_ buying Windows phones because some apps, such as Logos, aren't available on the platform?

What came first the chicken or the egg? I think the biggest issue with many app developers is not only market share but how durable the market is. Blackberry was once the rage and they suffered as ios and android developed. For the foreseeable future ios and android are here to stay. The same thing cannot be said about the windows phone.

 http://www.computerworld.com/article/2491229/smartphones/the-news-isn-t-good-for-windows-phone.html

http://www.zdnet.com/why-i-dont-recommend-windows-phone-smartphones-7000032242/

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 27 2014 10:36 AM

Russ White:
Second question -- in absolute terms, how many Windows phones have been sold in the last year or two?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/22/5925947/microsoft-q4-2014-financial-earnings includes:

The company reported selling 5.8 million Lumia phones and 30.3 million non-Lumia phones "following the completion of the NDS acquisition." Although that may look like a 21 percent drop for Lumia sales year over year, those sales numbers only account for two of the three months of this past quarter.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/14/6003427/windows-phone-sales-decline-q2-2014-idc includes 

Android continues to grow with an increase in market share of 33.3 percent year-over-year thanks to 255 million shipments in the latest quarter. BlackBerry has been hit hardest, with a massive 78 percent drop in shipments year-over-year, from 6.7 million to just 1.5 million. Apple’s iPhone sales were up nearly 13 percent as the world patiently awaits the rumored iPhone 6 announcement.

IDC has worldwide shipment numbers as of Aug 2014 => http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS25037214 that shows Windows Phone declining in market share year over year.  Caveat: iOS shipment numbers correlate to consumer purchases (compared to shipments from companies to stores).

Engadget review of Lumia 630 => http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/17/nokia-lumia-630-review/ is An affordable phone you can live without

By the way, Microsoft has Windows Phone End Support dates => http://support2.microsoft.com/lifecycle/search/default.aspx?sort=PN&alpha=windows+phone&Filter=FilterNO

Russ White:
Third -- what is Logos' commitment to abandoning Andriod if Nvidia wins its patent suit and forces most Samsung devices to stop shipping?

Watching => http://www.cnet.com/news/nvidia-alleges-samsung-qualcomm-infringed-gpu-patents/

Aware of legal precedent of denying injunction for smartphone patent copying => http://macdailynews.com/2014/08/27/judge-lucy-koh-denies-apple-request-for-injunction-vs-samsung-phones-tablets/

Litigation takes years => http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-v-samsung-sorry-but-its-not-over-yet/

Profitability is an Android issue => http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/Is-Android-doomed 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 2 2014 2:35 AM

Fredc:
For the foreseeable future ios and android are here to stay. The same thing cannot be said about the windows phone.

With all respect Fred, I think Windows Phone mobile system is here to stay also. The reason I see in the fact that people do not buy just smartphone but use whole platform. With some right moves with Windows 10 plus tablets plus Windows Phone, I think we will see Microsoft with their smartphones to stay. It is good for all of us to have 3 main players on the market.

P.S.  And, by the way, WP8 is by far the best OS for smartphone Smile

Bohuslav

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