Green's Literal Version (LitV / KJ3)
I have created a personal book file for Jay Green's Literal Bible translation, which was requested as a Logos edition in this thread. I decided it was more appropriate to put it in the Files subforum. A much older thread is also related.
I believe I am in compliance with the owner's policy for downloading and non-commercial personal use and sharing.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Thanks for sharing Robert.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Thanks,Robert.
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Thank You!
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After using this a bit, it occurred to me that the translator's paragraph indicators should be inside the 'bible-on / bible-off' fields, just like any other punctuation decisions he made. I moved all of the "¶ " indicators in the text (not to be confused with the MS Word paragraph mark) to inside the affected verses' on/off fields. I was hoping this would cause the paragraph marks to appear in the Bible Text Only visual field and in the Text Comparison tool.
However, it still doesn't appear. Does anyone know why? I have attached the alternate version here.
6283.Alt - Green's LitV Bible.docx
Thanks
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Thank you for making this available Robert! I don't know much about making personal books... which version should I use the first one you posted or the revised one?
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Mattillo said:
... which version should I use the first one you posted or the revised one?
Since my editing didn't have the desired effect, either one as they booth behave the same.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Thanks so much, Robert!
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Here is something that might work for a cover.
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Robert M. Warren said:
I was hoping this would cause the paragraph marks to appear in the Bible Text Only visual field and in the Text Comparison tool.
However, it still doesn't appear. Does anyone know why?
Aha! It came to me in a vision: the paragraph mark being formatted as superscript causes it to not be considered bible-text by the visual filter and Text Comparison tool, even though it is within the bible-on/bible-off fields. I changed it to not-superscript and it now shows under both conditions. I made it in a smaller font and different color to try to separate it from the text.
In an unrelated edit, I changed the paragraph spacing for the Normal style to 6pt After. This seems to make the verses delineate a little nicer in the various views. If you don't like this part, simply modify the Normal style to have either a different After spacing or zero.
Here's the revised file:
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Thanks for converting the Jay Green Literal Bible and providing the Personal Book. Was this the KJ3 2005 version that you converted? It is found here:
https://thewordnotes.com/litv/litv.htm
Thanks again!
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Thanks for converting the Jay Green Literal Bible and providing the Personal Book. Was this the KJ3 2005 version that you converted?
Hi Cousin Hal:
Welcome to the Logos forums, and you're welcome.
The file I posted has a copyright date of 1976-2000, which also appears on the notice for the files you link to, so I think it's the same version.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Yes, interesting we have the same last names! Agreed, all of the individual files are the older Literal Bible which you converted. In the upper left is the newer KJ3 pdf. What all is involved in converting the KJ3 file into a personal book?
One of my aunts traced our genealogy and we are of Thomas Warren who arrived in Jamestown in 1632 from England. Perhaps we have a common ancestor?
Hal
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Thomas Warren who arrived in Jamestown in 1632
I can't go any further back than the Huntsville area, Mid-19th century. Probably nobody famous, if you don't count Find-A-Grave.
In the upper left is the newer KJ3 pdf
Ah, I didn't see that at first.
What all is involved in converting the KJ3 file into a personal book?
For a Bible, it's fairly involved. My standard procedure for PDFs is to open in MS Word (2013 & later) and convert to docx. I opened that PDF in Word, and I'm not sure how those two columns would work out in the personal book compiler. But there are larger issues than that.
The biggest consideration in making a personal book is how practical the tagging process can be. For a Bible, if you don't have clearly recognizable patterns that you can use in Word to do Find & Replace to apply the necessary tagging, the manual work would be quite a pistol-whipping; in my case, more than I would be willing to deal with. For a Bible to be minimally functional in Logos, it needs:
- Bible milestone tagging on each verse to enable Logos to index and use the resource in conjunction with other bibles and commentaries, and for searches.
- Bible field on and off tagging at each end of the verse, which will enhance usefulness in bible text searches, Text Comparison, bible visual filters, and many other things I can't think of.
- Link tags for the verse numerals, so you can have a hover / pop-up / link to your preferred bible for quick comparison.
This Wiki page has many details for building personal books: https://wiki.logos.com/personal_books
I use Excel at work a lot (have hammer, everything looks like nail), so what I did for the LITV was to copy and paste the web pages for each book into Excel and use text formulas to tag everything; the web page files were already in an Excel-friendly one-verse-per-line format. It was much more practical to apply the tagging. I also created a column for book names and chapter numbers with distinctive font sizes so that when in Word, I could easily apply Heading styles for the Table of Contents. Then, I copied the chapter column and the tagged Excel column and pasted them into Word, and converted the resulting table to text and finished the remaining touches.
I hope that wasn't too discouraging, but it probably was.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Thanks for the insight! Not impossible, but tedious. I will give it some more thought. Perhaps if you were willing to share your work (Excel, Word docs) for the Literal Translation it could be adapted to import the KJ3 into a Personal Book?
I have relatives in AL and MS. So, maybe we are cousins!
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Hi Hal:
I did some experimenting with the (full Bible) PDF. It looks like when MS Word imports the PDF, it eats the verse numbers. I then found the newer version in individual book PDFs. The verse numbers survived, but they aren't distinct from the text (e.g., superscript, bold, smaller font) in a way that would enable me to break the resulting document into one-verse-per-line. If you, or anyone else reading this, can find an e-text that is either verse-per-line or has distinctive verse number formats, I'll post the Excel file with instructions. I'll also attempt to nice-it-up a bit to make some of the formulas require fewer manual alterations. I'll stay tuned.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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I have the full version of Adobe. Perhaps the conversion to MS Word might work better? Where did find the individual book PDFs? If they are downloadable, then I will convert one and let you know if it provides the distinction from the test.
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Hi Hal:
Here's where I found the individual files: https://www.sgpbooks.com/cubecart/read-kj3-here.html
The key to using my method for tagging will be to take the Word file resulting from your conversion and using Find & Replace to get each verse in one Word paragraph; then, the tagging is do-able in Excel. I'll go ahead link to the Excel file, so you'll see what I am referring to. If you get to the point of actually using the XL file, I'll take some time to do additional cleanup to make it simpler for others to use and provide some documentation.
Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g46d0fmkyiqy6ws/LitV%20XL.zip?dl=0
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Robert and others,
I happened upon this page and wanted to thank you guys for sharing with me the link me to the updated KJ3 text from Mr. Green. This text seems so beautiful to me!
Seeing this thread, I wanted to help out with Hal’s request to create a Personal Book format of the Mr. Green’s updated 2005 KJ3 version. I have a different “hammer” than you Robert (Linux pdftotext / sed / awk / MS Word VBA) and my process is partially automated and partially manual.
However, I don’t have a paid subscription to the Logos software and can’t seem to access the “Personal Book” utility tools menu from my Logos account. So, I can’t test to see if the resultant book formatting works or not. I’ve attached my attempt to extract the book of Genesis from the KJ3 PDF. Please provide me with some criticism before I venture into extracting all the other text (e.g., what I need to add or remove or reformat, etc).
Please see my questions below:
- I’ve not included the chapter notes and page titles (see images below). Should these be added? If so, what is the formatting for these items to be properly linked with the Logos SW?
- I saw that you had a number “####.Alt – Green’s LitV Bible.docx” for your Personal Book documents. How did you generate this number? What number should I use as well? Should the title be as follows: “#### - Green’s KJ3 Bible.docx”? (I think I see that uploading it to the forum gives a default number...)
- The text includes a history / testimony of the author and a statement from the publisher (pgs 1-9). Should I just skip these or include them in the document? Where should I include the copyright information of this text (see image below)?
- I have seen a few “mistakes” in the text (e.g., no Genesis 50:24). I want thinking of creating a full text version of the text, doing an “editorial pass” or rather read the entire Bible once, to double check Mr. Green’s text and my automated / manual conversion process’ ability to reproduce his text. Should I (A) provide you guys with the first draft of the Bible, or (B) after like 6 months or more of study, provide you guys with the “edited” version?
Forgive me for the length of this post. Just want to get some expectations before I start seriously working. Let me know your thoughts.
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Stephen Mobley said:
However, I don’t have a paid subscription to the Logos software and can’t seem to access the “Personal Book” utility tools menu from my Logos account.
Welcome [:D]
Logos & Verbum desktop apps include Personal Book Tool for free:
For Linux, following thread => Linux version of Logos Bible Software may be helpful.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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" rel="nofollow">Keep Smiling 4 Jesus
said:Welcome
Logos & Verbum desktop apps include Personal Book Tool for free:
Thanks for reversing my foolish assumption that freeloaders like myself can not access the desktop app and that the online app would have the same interface. I can now test out my own results. Thanks!
For Linux, following thread => Linux version of Logos Bible Software may be helpful.
Thanks for the link but I have a Windows machine with a Linux VM that I'm working on so the default app download work just fine for me.
Anyone else willing to answer a few of my feedback questions as well? Or I can also take constructive criticism in the form of "please don't waste your time" or any other to the point comments. Let me know!
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Hi Stephen:
Except for possible small corrections to existing projects here and there, I have retired from making Personal Books, due to vision impairment issues.
To answer one specific question: the ####. prefix is added by the forum software automatically to uploaded files and the number has no meaning. It probably serves to randomized the file name for storage purposes.
To answer your other questions generally, I think most people who contribute files satisfy their individual needs for completeness based on: their skills, available time, and tolerances for replication, or lack thereof, of the format of the printed edition. There are some who do really beautifully formatted editions, and then there are guys, such as I, for whom a wink is as good as a nod and are happy with accurate tagging and Logos functionality. So, satisfy your needs, and you're likely to make others happy as well.
Hope that helps.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Robert,
Thank you for the reply! I'm sorry to hear about your vision impairment issues. In Jesus' name, may the Lord heal your eyes, so that you can continue to do this kind of work for His kingdom!
And thank you for giving me a simplified explanation of how to set my expectations. I'm an engineer by trade, so getting the "customer's requirements" is more of my approach before starting a work. Sorry if I came on too heavy... Anyway, trying to get a sense of your words, I think I will "give it my best shot" and then maybe post a second version if I notice any mistakes later on. I myself do not use the Personal Books platform but wanted to provide this for you guys as a type of "thank you" for helping me to find the KJ3 version that I was looking for.
I will soon (maybe a month or so) post my initial version of the KJ3 text here on this forum according to the style that I have done for the book of Genesis and then maybe post another version if I find simple edits (from organization errors in Mr. Green's document or my own extraction SW's errors), I will then post another version at a later date.
God bless you guys! And may He bless all you set your hands to (Deu 28:8)!
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Stephen Mobley said:
I myself do not use the Personal Books platform but wanted to provide this for you guys as a type of "thank you" for helping me to find the KJ3 version that I was looking for.
Thread => Power Tip: Using variables to Search and Replace in Word may be helpful: e.g. some books (Obadiah, Jude) do not have chapter #.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus
, thanks for the recommendation for the Search and Replace from Fr Devin Rosa. I totally used the mess out of that regex like replacement feature in Microsoft Word to transform XML tagged data into Logos Personal Books style headers and text styles.When I initially said it would take me "...maybe a month or so" I didn't know it would take more like 3.5 months... I need to keep to the 3x multiplier for all of my ambitious time estimates. Anyway, please see the attached initial version of the Mr. Green's KJ3 bible.
I have tried my best to find as many errors (both in my program's text conversion and Mr. Green's own textual errors) as I could before posting this version. I will (hopefully to give a more realistic time table, in a year or so) read through the text and post a revised version with a document denoting all of the found errors (indicating any assumed errors in Mr. Green's pdf documents). Please feel free to post here on the forum if you find any obvious errors. Thanks guys and God bless you all!
Stephen
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Thanks Stephen for sharing!
When having built this, I found that cross-references to Psalms don't work since neither the "LXX-Psa" reference nor the "MT-Psa" reference were detected by the PB tool (NB: for future updates you might consider putting the cross-references outside the bible-on/bible-off markers.) Thus I ran a replace all to switch "MT-Psa" to "Psalm" which fixes that for the references in the usual bible datatype. I also used Ctrl-A to select all text and replaced the font Cambria with Times New Roman (which actually is Logos' default font and will have the text display with the font I configured in the Logos Program Settings), thus making the whole bible compile without errors.
Thanks again for your work.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Hi Stephen,
I've been looking for the latest KJ3 version, and it looks like your file is it.
I'm planning to develop a couple of Android apps around the KJ3 and would like to give you credit for your work on this, as well as to anyone else who contributed.
The app will be free, without advertisements and will not require an Internet connection.
I really appreciate your work on this and want to keep Jay Green's work alive. It's appalling to think that this translation might die due to lack of support.
Yours in Christ,
John Little
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Unfortunately, after looking into Jay Green's translation of the Hebrew Scriptures a bit more carefully, I can no longer recommend his work. I do not know where he learned his Hebrew, but it is definitely non-standard and should not be trusted.
I'm sure that his Greek is excellent, but my expertise is Hebrew. And, that was my focus.
This has no bearing on Jay, himself. I have great respect and admiration for his selfless devotion to Christ.
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Hey John,
Which bible translations do you recommend, and briefly, why?
Appreciate any help, blessings brother,
Tim
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I can tell you more about what translations to avoid. The ESV, NASB, NIV, and the NET are all corrupt. The ESV is especially egregious in their corruption of Genesis 3:16. It is not complicated Hebrew, but Wayne Grudem rammed through a translation of that verse in 2016 that reversed its meaning. He did it on purpose, and he will be judged by God for doing so. And, I'm finding other bad mistakes with the ESV.
As for what I normally like to read, I generally stick with the KJV, NKJV, and sometimes the ASV for my daily reading. I've heard that the WEB has a lower error rate, but I am leery about working with a translation like that, even though I have put it in my group of Android apps.
Again, they all make mistakes. All of them. And, even I make mistakes when I'm translating, so you can't even trust me.
So, use an interlinear (that also has mistakes) that sticks with the Textus Receptus. Do NOT go with Biblehub. Biblehub uses Nestle-Aland which is horrifying.
Stick with these guys:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/tr/jhn/1/1-51/
And, if you want an easy way to read through your Bible in a year, on your Android phone, I have five Bibles to choose from:
https://revelationsix.com/android-apps/
Free. No ads. No Internet connection needed.
Remember that the Bible is meant to be read. I've been reading it cover to cover for decades - and now using one of my apps - and it has blessed me greatly.0 -
Hello everyone,
Sorry I have been MIA. But I still do intend on making a corrected version to my first pass. For instance, in reading the text, I have a lot of end-of-line hyphenation errors (e.g. "sub- stance" Gen 7:4). I can fix that but I have yet to finish reading through the text to capture as many errors as I can.
NB.Mike said:(NB: for future updates you might consider putting the cross-references outside the bible-on/bible-off markers.)
NB.Mike, thanks for the tip. My formatting of the personal book format was based on Robert M. Warren's text of the Green's LitV version. For the cross-references and placing them outside the "bible-on/bible-off" marker, can I just place the text out there? Or do I need to wrap it in one of those code style wrappers (e.g., datatype links, resource links, fields or milestones)? I will also change the fonts all to Times New Roman.
John Little said:... I can no longer recommend his work. I do not know where he learned his Hebrew, but it is definitely non-standard and should not be trusted.
Thanks for checking out the file I uploaded. Can you please expound a bit about issues with Jay Green's Hebrew translations? Maybe provide a few glaring examples? I thought this was a wonderful English version (though I'm neither an expert in Hebrew or Greek). Even KJV has its translation issues...
Stephen
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can you give some examples of where you found his Hebrew lacking?
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I will try to dig up what I found. But, I'm in the middle of some projects right now, so it'll take a few days. Remember, I made my remarks a year ago, so backtracking could be difficult. We'll see.
And, you are absolutely right about the KJV. And, none of my comments are on his Greek. My background is Hebrew with some time spent working with Greek. But, if I remember correctly, Green's Hebrew mistakes were troubling.
Again, we all make mistakes, and I've made my share. I admire Green's sacrifice and persistence. He certainly didn't do his work for money or fame.
Lord Willing, I will have an answer for you in a few days.
- John
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I should have something in a few days. It has been a year...
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Hi Stephen
When I examine a translation, I look at verses that are under contention. What those verses say will indicate the general way that the rest of the translation was made.
One verse under contention is Daniel 9:27
Here is how Jay Green translated it:
27 And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.
The first half of the verse is fine, but not the last half. In fact, Jay inserts his interpretation of this verse into his translation, and that is not good at all. You can never trust a translation where translators have inserted their interpretation into a verse - no matter how good their intentions.
My favorite interlinear doesn't really get the verse right, the Hebrew word kanaph means wing. It literally does not mean anything else. Trying to change its meaning is not good at all. Here's the link:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/wlc-kjv/dan/9/27/
Here is my own, literal, word-for-word translation of Daniel 9:27
VERSE 27 – And, [He/Messiah] shall confirm a covenant to many, for one week. And, [at] half of the week, there is a ceasing of sacrifice and offering. And, to the wing of abominations, devastation – until completeness and destruction is poured on [the] devastated.
– Daniel 9:27
Except for three words in [brackets], that is a word-for-word translation of the original Hebrew.The reason why Messiah should be in this verse is due to the nature of the first word in that verse: v'Higbir. It is Hiphil, Sequential Perfect (v'qatal), 3rd Person, Masculine, Singular.
That pulls the subject of the previous verse into this one. So the 'he' is actually the subject of verse 26.
What is the subject of verse 26?
Messiah.
Not the parenthetical phrase that speaks of the 'people of the prince'. (Although, I know that some disagree with this.)
The bottom line is that there is no reference to an altar in verse 27. And, translating Kanaph into 'corner' is just wrong in every way. And, if Jay did this here, there will be other places in which he did this.
And no, I don't remember if I looked at any other verse.
By the way, if you want to see a truly HORRIFYING corruption of the Bible, go to Genesis 3:16 of the 2016 version of the ESV. That verse was turned upside down by Wayne Grudem. What he did was a complete abomination. And, I've seen a lot of errors in the ESV.
Again, I admire Jay Green's effort and sacrifice to make this translation and his interlinear bible. This was a labor of love and dedication to God that cost him dearly. He deserves our respect. And I am so sorry that I can't use his translation for my Android apps.Yours in Christ,
John Little
RevelationSix.com0 -
See my reply to Stephen. That will give the details.
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